14 Club SPL?

A proposed move to a 10-team Scottish Premier League is now dead, according to newly promoted Dunfermline Athletic's chairman John Yorkston.

It follows a meeting of representatives from eight of the current 12 clubs at Tynecastle to discuss the way forward for the top flight.

Only Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hibernian were not represented.

"There was a unanimous decision in favour of re-investigating a league of 14," Yorkston told BBC Scotland.

"A 14 reflects the wishes of the fans and would allow the development of players without the fear factor.
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I think it's safe to say that, after today's discussions, a league of 10 is now dead
John Yorkston
Dunfermline Athletic chairman

"The SPL have been notified of this and we'll see how things move forward.

"I think it's safe to say that, after today's discussions, a league of 10 is now dead."

The 10-club proposal was the result of a SPL working party containing directors from Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibernian, Motherwell, Rangers and St Mirren.

Hamilton Academical chairman Ronnie McDonald also voiced his support for the proposal before the Lanarkshire club's relegation.

Aberdeen continue to back a smaller division and a club spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The 10-club proposal is the only one that is financially viable.

"We have yet to see any other model which is workable financially.

"A top tier of 10 with another tier of 10 clubs below is the one which we have publicly backed and is the only one that stacks up."

SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster, claiming there was broad support for the proposals, had also warned that a 10-club set-up was the only one that was financially viable.

But a proposed vote on change has been delayed on three occasions when it became clear that the required 11-1 majority would not be achieved.

Kilmarnock, Inverness Caledonian Thistle, Dundee United and Motherwell have been vocal in their opposition to aspects of the plan.

A 10-club top-flight was only one of a number of proposed reforms, including a a merger with the Scottish Football League leading to pyramid structure in Scottish football, relegation play-offs and a redustribution of money away from the top two positions in the league and reallocating it to the other eight clubs.

Doncaster was adamant that those other measures could only be agreed along with a reduction to 10 clubs in the SPL.

However, he also said it was up to clubs opposing the plan to come up with alternatives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13607806.stm

Ram yer 10 team league.

14 is as much of a joke as 10. I don't think the size of the league is part of the problem when it comes to the development of players. Poor coaching and lack of facilities put the nails in that coffin.

A very bad idea to change the size of the league, maybe a salary cap for Celtic and Rangers, would be unpopular but quite effective.

It would be unfair why should the Old Firm be punished for having more fans?

Thats why I said it would be unpopular but it would be the only way to even up the league, which would in itself give the old firm more firms as they would have hard quality games each week.

They would also have less quality than they do now and given the lack of quality in the SPL at the moment that wouldn't be good. It's not the Old Firms fault clubs spent money they never had and now need to sell every decent player they get.

I was totally against a 10 team league but Its the only one that makes sense, I'd love an 18 team League but fans are staying away as it is without giving them even more reason to with the likes of Falkirk QOS and Hamilton getting a place at the top table along with the dross thats already there, also if anyone thinks SKY will anywhere near match their already poor offer for the SPL nevermind better it with far less quality games they're off their heads, hows this 14 team going to work?

The Chiefs in charge of Scottish Football have until November to change the landscape of our game or the SFA have said they'll do it for them, its a change that's been needed for a long time yet one that has always been shunned because of a deep rooted fear that it won't be financially viable to entertain the thought of a League season without potentially 4 home games a season against Celtic and Rangers, however, with Rangers now gone clubs have had to cut their cloths accordingly and half the League will probably only get 1 home league game against Celtic now so never has a time come that change to the League Set-Up isn't as drastic as what was once feared.

Also, there's no point ignoring the issue, the only reason we're likely to get change is due to The Rangers being in the Scottish Third Division, clubs, sponsors and financial backers of the game seemingly want the club incorporated into the top league as soon as possible and a change in the League set-up should see that happen within two years instead of the three it will take without any League reconstruction.

Whether it's done to help push The Rangers up the League or not for me isn't the issue though, if they benefit from it then so be it, the point is that we do need a change to the whole set-up and if The Rangers predicament helps speed up the change we as fans are craving for then at least some good will come of that whole sorry mess.

Underneath I'm going to write about a System I'd like to see incorporated and I'll also add a few popular Q&A's to it that I've received on another forum

• 3 Tiers of Scottish Football instead of four
• 16 Team SPL
• League Split into 4 sections of 4
• SPL Play-Off's
• European Play-Off's
• 3/4 week Winter Break
• Super Cup
• League Cup concluded before Shutdown
• SPL clubs enter the Scottish Cup immediately after Shutdown

-------------------------------------------------------
• How do we get from 4 leagues to 3 for the start of season 2013/14?:

Well starting with the SPL, in order to get from 12 clubs to 16 clubs the simple solution would be to just promote the first 4 clubs from the Scottish First Division and be done with it but in order to preserve some interest and competition in the bottom of the SPL for 2012/13 the bottom club at the end of the season should enter a play-off with the club that finishes 5th in SFL1

Now after the Play-Off the remaining 5 clubs in the SFL1 will be joined the top top 9 clubs clubs in SFL2 and the Champions of SFL3, the bottom club of SFL2 will enter the Play-Offs with SFL3 clubs 2,3 & 4

That will leave us with two top leagues of 16 and a third tier of 10, all leagues will play

Underneath that I'd like to see an introduction of a Pyramid system and have North, South, East and West Leagues with the winners of each league entering an end of season Play-Off with the winners replacing the club at the bottom of the new SFL2

• A 16 Team League will provide only 30 League games, that isn't enough is it?:

No, 30 league games simply wouldn't be enough, however this is where we have to be creative and progressive in our thinking regarding League reconstruction

• How do we get more games from a 16 Team SPL then?:

After 30 games the League will split into four sections of 4 in descending order of League positions
1st-4th
5th-8th
9th-12th
13th-16th
Each team will play the other teams in their section twice, once Home and once Away that will take the final total of League games per team to 36

• Will that not mean more meaningless games between the clubs in the 2 middle sections?:

Hopefully not, the new structure would be designed to keep the league as competitive and as entertaining as possible for as long as possible, every section would have a consequence, the second section would see teams fight to finish top of it (5th overall) which would see them qualify for the European Play-Off with the team that finishes bottom of the Top section (4th overall)

The third section would see teams fight to avoid finishing bottom of it (12th overall) which would see that particular team thrown into the SPL Play-Off's with SFL1 teams 4,5 & 6

• So what happens with the last section then?:

The last section would I believe be really intriguing, the bottom club (16th overall) would be automatically relegated, the team that finishes second bottom (15th overall) would enter a one off Play-Off tie away to the team the Runners Up of SFL1, the team that finish third bottom (14th overall) would enter into a two legged Home & Away Play-Off against the team that finish third in SFL1, the team that finished top of the bottom section (13th overall) would escape relegation by virtue of being 'best of the rest'

• Would clubs buy into that structure given it would mean only 1 home game vs Celtic for 12 of the 15 clubs?:

I'd like to hope so, as it stands now only 6 at best of the 12 currently only get get one home game, this will share it out more evenly plus with only one away game at those particular grounds per season, Celtic fans will more likely attend the game, also, with Celtic only coming to town once a season fans of the home clubs are more likely to attend, also, the same rule applies for The Rangers if/when they reach the new SPL

• This structure will mean less high profile games, will that not effect the attendances?:

It's a fair assumption, for me though I'd hope that less games against Celtic/The Old Firm would mean the likelihood that clubs could win more points which in turn could see a better challenge for the title from a club outside of Celtic/The Old Firm, and with that in mind you'd have to hope that crowds would be boosted all through Scotlands top flight as well as at Celtic Park as crowds flock to see a title race

• How will the end of Season SPL Play-Off's work?

Well this would be interesting, I'd like to put three promotion places up for grabs via the SPL Play-Off's, I'd also like to reward/ punish clubs on their respective League finishes

*1) So for the team that finishes second bottom of the SPL they would enter a 1 leg tie away to the team that finished runner up of the Scottish First Division, that would reward the Runner Up of SFL1 and also punish second bottom of the SPL - Winner is granted access to the SPL

*2) The second play-off would be a two legged tie between Third bottom of the SPL and Third top of the SFL1, again this is designed to reward/punish the teams for their respective league finishes

*3) The third Play-Off would be more traditional Play-Off's, the team who finishes bottom of the third section (12th overall) would enter the Play-off's against the 4th, 5th and 6th best placed teams in SFL1

1st Semi SPL Team 12 vs SFL1 Team 6
2nd Semi SFL1 Team 4 vs SFL1 Team 5
Winner of 1st vs Winner of 2nd

*4) Europa League Play-Off

This would be pretty straight forward, the club that finishes bottom of the top section (4th overall) would enter the Play-Off with the club that finishes top of the second section (5th overall), each of these teams would only have faced each other twice in the league that season so I don't think it would be repetitive, particularly if its specifically for an award

• How will the Super Cup work?

This will be played in the opening weeks of the Season between the League Winners and the Scottish Cup winners, if the team who won the League wins the Scottish Cup then it would be replaced by the club that wins the League Cup, if a Club wins the Domestic Treble then the team who finish 2nd in the SPL would take that place

• When can we fit in a Winter Shutdown

For me I'd have a 4 week break in the last two weeks of December and the first two weeks in January, money is extremely tight during that period and on average its usually a peak time for poor whether, giving fans and players an opportunity to spend this period with their families will hopefully re-fresh all their batteries for the second part of the Season

• What would that do to ticket prices?:

I've got no idea, you'd think that pricing needs to be more realistic at the present moment regardless of change but with less high profile games it would have to drop, that's not something I can determine though as I've got no say on what clubs charge, I would like to see common sense prevail though

• So what will the leagues look like then?:

The New SPL would look like this

Team 1 Champions CL
Team 2 Runners Up CL/EL qualifier
Team 3 Europa League qualifier
Team 4 Europa League Play-Off
----------------------------------
Team 5 Europa League Play-Off
Team 6
Team 7
Team 8
----------------------------------
Team 9
Team 10
Team 11
Team 12 Play-Offs w/ SFL1 Teams 4,5,6
----------------------------------
Team 13
Team 14 2 Leg Play-Off w/ SFL1 Team 3
Team 15 1 Off Play-Off w/ SFL1 Team 2
Team 16 Automatically Relegated

The New SFL1 would look like this

Team 1 Champions Promoted
Team 2 1 Off Play-Off w/SPL Team 15
Team 3 2 Leg Play-Off w/SPL Team 14
Team 4 SPL Play-Off's
----------------------------
Team 5 SPL Play-Off's
Team 6 SPL Play-Off's
Team 7
Team 8
---------------------------
Team 9
Team 10
Team 11
Team 12 2 Leg Play-Off w/SFL2 Team 4
---------------------------
Team 13
Team 14 2 Leg Play-Off w/SFL2 Team 3
Team 15 1 Off Play-Off w/SFL2 Team 2
Team 16 Relegated

The New SFL2 would look like this

Team 1 Champions Promoted
Team 2 1 off Play-Off w/SFL1 Team 15
Team 3 2 leg Play-Off w/SFL1 Team 14
Team 4 2 leg Play-Off w/SFL1 Team 12
Team 5
Team 6
Team 7
Team 8
Team 9
Team 10 Relegated

16 or 18 would work, play each other twice would make the league more competitive coz you'd play the old firm 4 times rather 8 times.

Play each other twice but you pay the Old Firm 4 times?

Rangers twice and Celtic twice rather than 4 times each

VDT do you think SKY will pay for the rights when you cut the Old Firm games in half then have only 1 away game vs Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen instead oe the two each, fans aren't going as it is so what hope have you got when you swap a game with the Old Firm with a game against a Hamilton, Falkirk or Q.O.S

SKY will reduce the cash and teams will need to drastically cut Season tickets (because they have less quality games to sell) and with less fans then you have less chance of attracting decent sponsorship, so a league that is already losing money galore will lose even more cash with a league of 16/18

Teams would be fine cutting Season ticket prices, if they brought in safe standing.

Look at the Germans, season tickets are about £150, over here to watch shte the lowest is probably about £250 - £300.

That doesn't make sense mate, safe standing means 1 person where a seat would be, you'd still have the same amount of fans, the reason the Germans can afford to sell season tickets so cheaply is because they get astronomical backing from their govornment and massive sponsorship, if Scottish Football is to be restructured then it would need Alex Salmond to invest hundreds of Millions in it and clubs would need to compromise to do more for their communities, only then do I see prices being reduced

But more people would go to matches if they were affordable, and evryone wants safe standing instead of squashed sitting down, plus Clubs wouldnt have to worry about bills for broken seats.

Mate im not sure if you get it, if they brought back standing then 1 standing space would only equal 1 seat, if you have 10/15/20/50 or 60 thousand seats then all that would equate to is 10/15/20/50 or 60 thousand standing fans, cutting prices would increase attendance but clubs would still be bleeding cash