Hungarian GP Thread - Contains spoilers of all sessions.

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

As the enforced mid-summer shutdown approaches, the Hungarian Grand Prix weekend is likely to be just as tough as Russia was last year for drivers, teams and fans, in the wake of Jules Bianchi’s sad passing last week.

"Saying goodbye to Jules was incredibly hard for everyone,” says Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton, who was one of several drivers to have attended the Frenchman’s funeral in Nice on Tuesday. “I will be carrying Jules with me in my prayers and thoughts, not only this race but for the rest of my driving days. I know he'd want us to race hard as he did, and so I will."

"My thoughts in these days are with his family and close friends,” echoes Hamilton’s team mate Nico Rosberg. “Everyone will be sharing the same feelings in the paddock this week – but we must race on and race hard for Jules as he would have wanted to be doing himself.”

Neither Hamilton nor Rosberg won in Budapest last year, but one of them should have done. Rosberg took pole and an early lead, but then had his race ruined by the first of two safety cars and eventually finished fourth after Hamilton controversially refused to comply with team orders intended to help the German’s strategy. Hamilton himself fought through for a dramatic third place behind eventual winner Daniel Ricciardo and Fernando Alonso, having started 21st after his car developed a fuel leak in Q1.

The Silver Arrows, who are as quick, if not quicker this season, will be hoping for better luck this year, though rivals Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren all travel to Budapest full of hope of an uplift in their own fortunes, as Toro Rosso and Force India fancy their chances and Williams hope they’ve made improvements to their car’s behaviour for a track that could be a bit of an Achilles heel for them.

So let’s deal with the characteristics of the Hungaroring first. Unchanged from last year and featuring two DRS zones (the first on the pit straight and the second between Turns 1 and 2), the 4.381-kilometre circuit makes equal demands of traction, braking and lateral energy demands on each car, and every team runs maximum downforce in search of maximum aero grip. While it isn’t particularly demanding on tyres, the non-stop series of corners doesn’t allow them much time to cool down, so wear management is important. It’s also tough on the drivers physically.

But as previously indicated, you’d be unwise to bet against runaway championship leaders Mercedes, given their current form.

“We approach Hungary determined to get a good result and to head into the summer break on a positive note,” says Paddy Lowe, executive director (technical). “The Hungaroring is an interesting circuit - predominantly low- and medium-speed with a short straight, plenty of challenging corners and a lot of elevation changes. It can be tricky to find the right compromise on suspension and it's also tough on brakes. Mostly though, it's about cornering ability, with teams running maximum downforce. Overtaking is tough but not impossible, so when passing manoeuvres do occur they're usually pretty special - there have been some bold, race-defining moves at the Hungaroring across the years.”

Nevertheless, Ferrari expect to go better here, and a really strong result is overdue. Based on their form in Monaco, another maximum-downforce track, they should have a better chance of that, and they were also strong in Bahrain on the medium and soft compound Pirelli tyres which are this weekend’s mandated choice.

"We've seen at other circuits it depends a lot on the layout of the circuit and what tyres we run," Kimi Raikkonen says. "I expect it to be a different story here. Silverstone was not ideal for us - the layout, conditions and tyres - but we have to improve and we have to try to get better whatever circuit it is. Hungary, I'm sure, will be better.”

Last year’s winners, Red Bull, also expect to be stronger. A great drive by Ricciardo, allied to a combative strategy, secured that success, but a repeat is unlikely. Again, though, the Australian and team mate Daniil Kvyat ran well at Monaco, which is a good sign.

This is another critical weekend for McLaren. First of all they’ll be hoping to avoid the first-lap incidents that hurt their campaign in Austria and Silverstone; secondly, to build on Jenson Button’s 12th place in qualifying in Monaco, in an MP4-30 which has been improved significantly since; and thirdly to exploit the consistency of its downforce and an improved delivery of power via its Honda ERS systems.

“It’s been a source of great frustration to see new components and upgrades destroyed before they’ve had the chance to be race-proven, through a series of first-lap accidents,” racing director Eric Boullier admits. “However, the unshakeable belief and optimism of Fernando and Jenson has set the example for the whole team: they are remarkable assets, and their commitment during these times is incredibly valuable.

“I hope that our performance in Hungary will scratch the surface on the performance and potential that lies within our organisation - it would be great to go into the break feeling re-energised.”

Toro Rosso have been very strong pretty much all season, while Force India took a big step forward with their update package at Silverstone, so both are expecting a lot. That’s another reason why Williams hope they’ve solved their problems from Monaco, where they slumped dramatically on the similarly twisty circuit.

"In Austria, we had the upgrades arrive in the car but it was not working the right way,” Felipe Massa says. “But we understood where to make it work at Silverstone and everything we tried to change from the last race to this race it worked and the car was quicker.”

“The circuit is very different from the last few because it’s much tighter with more medium- and slow-speed corners,” Valtteri Bottas adds, “but our development has been focused on tracks like this and generating higher downforce. We should be looking to have a strong weekend and to build on the good momentum we’ve built.”

With the weather expected to be dry and warm all weekend, tyres will again play a significant role. “We go from Silverstone - one of the fastest and most flowing circuits on the F1 calendar - to the Hungaroring, which is among the slower circuits with a seemingly non-stop series of technical corners,” says Pirelli’s motorsport director Paul Hembery. “It’s a real challenge for the driver, car, and tyres as they are always working hard: apart from the pit straight, there is no real point on the circuit where there is any respite.

“One of the biggest challenges is the weather: it can be extremely hot in Budapest in July, and obviously this has a significant effect on thermal degradation. In order to find the right balance between performance and durability, we’ve selected the medium and soft tyres, which is the same nomination as last year. This selection is soft enough to provide the mechanical grip needed to negotiate all the corners, yet hard enough to withstand the punishing weather conditions and track layout of the Hungaroring. This is not always the easiest circuit to overtake on, so tyre strategy can make a real difference.”

However you slice it, this is an important race in the season, effectively ending the first half and giving a big psychological boost to the man and team who can go into the August break on top.

Sunday’s race will run over 70 laps or 306.63 kilometres (190.531 miles), and will start at 1400 hours local time (1300 BST). At 1245 hours local time on race day there will be a minute’s silence in honour of Jules Bianchi.

[GSC]

Rosberg was under more threat from behind than posing any. Plus he had the SC incident after the FI crash which bunched the field.

Plus that's not saying no one else can do it

[CaledonianCraig]

Rosberg was under more threat from behind than posing any. Plus he had the SC incident after the FI crash which bunched the field.

Plus that's not saying no one else can do it

Oh yes I think Ricciardo was being held up and would have been the bigger threat to Vettel. Red Bull's really like Hungaroring.

[banbrotam]

Hamilton gave one of his most immature race performances for around four seasons, but still did some breathtaking overtaking moves in the ultimate 'curates egg' of a performance

Meanwhile Rosberg doesn't even bother trying to catch an over-take Vettel, instead decided to drive defensively to ward off a RB

Now there's all kinds or reasons for this mind-set, at one time 2nd gave him the Championship lead, so why go for more. Ricardo was on better tyres etc

But it's the mindset of Rosberg and drivers like Massa which is all wrong - this safety first no risk taking attitude a lot of them have now

Let's now use poor Bianchi as an excuse. There has been a set of boring, "it's all about the strategy" racers for years

I mean has Rosberg ever over-taken a car, which is similarly paced to his?

Bad luck with the puncture, but maybe if he was busy trying to catch Vettel it wouldn't have happened

This just about rights the Monaco farce, i.e. Hamilton deserves to still have a lead of 20+ points

Here's hoping that in Part 2, Ferrari and Williams can close the gap

[GSC]

Its pretty difficult to overtake at Hungary in a similar car (not to mention Rosberg went on primes for some reason, difference was 2 secs per lap iirc).

Ricciardo didn't get that close to actually getting past Rosberg until he divebombed from about 3 car lengths back

[Guest]

he divebombed but he didnt' outbreak himself massively or go wide, rosberg just lazily drove in front of him & got the puncture. stewards agreed.

rosberg is just plain awful. hamilton must be screwing because he's turned the tables in qualifying to 9-1, yet mercedes have handcuffed their own drivers, by changing these clutches & it simply isn't working. hamilton should be controlling these races from lights to flag, like vettel did, but he can't, because he's ending up third or fourth or worse.

to me this is just going to be another long process, probably down to the last race again, for lewis to see off nico.

[banbrotam]

Its pretty difficult to overtake at Hungary in a similar car (not to mention Rosberg went on primes for some reason, difference was 2 secs per lap iirc).

Ricciardo didn't get that close to actually getting past Rosberg until he divebombed from about 3 car lengths back

I know all that, but basically the likes of Rosberg and Massa want Spa, Montreal or Silverstone with a 1s advantage - otherwise they simply don't bother i.e. like Rosberg's move on the ailing car that Kimi had

We should have drivers that actually want to overtake (safely of course) not ones who want to merely think of preserving position

Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso have often got it badly wrong - but we admire all three because if they're side by side going to a bend, neither will yield (if you see what I mean)

[GSC]

Its more a function of modern f1. Aerodynamics have made it very hard to stick in the dirty air of a car ahead so unless you have a far superior car, its hard to make a move. Its why DRS and KERS were initially introduced. The differences in engine power now highlight this.

I mean Hamilton was flying past Renault and Honda cars on the straight easily, but it took him a few laps to dispatch Grosjean on soft tyres and high engine settings.

[erictheblueuk]

Hamilton gave one of his most immature race performances for around four seasons

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only who thought this.

[banbrotam]

Hamilton gave one of his most immature race performances for around four seasons

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only who thought this.

I'm a big Hamilton fan, but like all talented sportsman he fouls up every now and then. He could easily have won, if he'd made better decisions

Even so, if you note a distracted Hamilton still makes some spectacular overtakes, even taking into account the quality of his car

[dummy_half]

Really odd day for Lewis - showed his worst (bad start then first lap error when he mis-judged NR's line into the chicane and dropped a wheel onto the grass), then his best in cutting through the field and getting right back into contention until the safety car, then his worst again in being overly impetuous in attaching Ricciardo on the SC restart (would have got him later), and then good again in cutting through the midfield to recover as many points as possible.

Would have been interesting to see what would have happened had the safety car not happened - he was getting back to close to Nico, but still had the prime tyres to run. Fastest car on the track all race - pity on a couple of occasions he wasn't actually on it...

As for Nico: needs to get his head checked, as he was so negative all race. In the fastest car (as LH demonstrated) he should have been all over Kimi in the first stint and jumped him at the first stop, then same with Vettel in the second stint. And WTF was the decision to go on the primes again for the final stint? Should have been looking to be aggressive on the options and get ahead of SV, and instead his conservative choice led to him being vulnerable to Ricciardo in the last stint. As for his puncture, that was just a bit of muppetry - there was no need to cut across DR so hard, as Ricciardo had almost stopped on the outside of the corner and Nico would easily have out-dragged him to turn 2. A real self-inflicted injury.

It's interesting to compare the mindsets of the Merc drivers - I'm sure Lewis was still driving for the win as he was cutting through the field, whereas Nico sounded more interested in keeping Lewis behind him (hence the second set of primes).

A fine start from Seb and he did well in clear air, while Kimi was unlucky to get nothing out of a solid drive.
Red Bulls somewhat lucky to get 2nd and 3rd given the number of front wings they went through, but clearly benefitted from Mercedes having a mare.

Good day for Max V and for McLaren especially Alonso - arguably the driver of the day (really between him, Vettel and DR, although Ricciardo may have a bit of a black mark with some pundits for putting himself in the position where Rosberg broke his wing).

Very forgettable weekend for FI - Perez suspension failure on Friday costing them one car and a free practice session, then Hulkenberg losing his front wing while running in a solid points position.

Wonder why no-one tried a three stopper of running 3 long stints on options and only the last couple of laps on primes. With the delta between the tyres and the time loss for pitstops, you only needed to run about 17 laps on options to be quicker overall.

By far the best race of the season.

[GSC]

Don't think people had enough sets of fresh options for 3 stints on them.

[dyrewolfe]

he divebombed but he didnt' outbreak himself massively or go wide, rosberg just lazily drove in front of him & got the puncture. stewards agreed.

rosberg is just plain awful. hamilton must be screwing because he's turned the tables in qualifying to 9-1, yet mercedes have handcuffed their own drivers, by changing these clutches & it simply isn't working. hamilton should be controlling these races from lights to flag, like vettel did, but he can't, because he's ending up third or fourth or worse.

to me this is just going to be another long process, probably down to the last race again, for lewis to see off nico.

Is that such a bad thing?

Does anyone really want to see any driver wrap up the title with races to spare? Okay nobody should be hamstrung by dodgy equipment, but this is F1 and equipment faults / failures are a fact of life for every driver.

Its more a function of modern f1. Aerodynamics have made it very hard to stick in the dirty air of a car ahead so unless you have a far superior car, its hard to make a move. Its why DRS and KERS were initially introduced. The differences in engine power now highlight this.

I mean Hamilton was flying past Renault and Honda cars on the straight easily, but it took him a few laps to dispatch Grosjean on soft tyres and high engine settings.

Exactly.

I think a lot of people either forget, or don't appreciate, how much downforce cars lose when they have to follow other cars. The exact degree varies from car to car, but the Mercedes suffers quite badly and even superior horsepower won't always help (apart from in the DRS zones). But if you're having to follow a car for lap after lap, your engine and brake temps increase...sometimes to the point of overheat. On top of that you're having to deal with the loss of downforce, which means your car doesn't grip anything like as well as it can and causes tyres to degrade more quickly.

So its not that drivers don't want to overtake...its just that there is so much car management to worry about now, as wel as the fact the cars become that much harder to drive, it can be damn near impossible. Which may explain Ricciardo's late-braking lunge to get ahead of Rosberg.

Of course you take a huge risk with moves like that and if you're in a decent points-scoring position, the driver or team may think its better to simply hold position.

Until something is done about the aero regs to stop cars producing so much turbulence, overtaking will remain a difficult and often risky proposition.

[Guest]

Gene Haas has confirmed that Jean-Eric Vergne, Esteban Gutierrez and Nico Hulkenberg currently top his shortlist to occupy the two race-seats at Haas F1 ahead of the team's debut campaign in 2016.

Good Luck getting Nico Hulkenberg

[GSC]

Would've thought he was more likely to leave F1 but hardly unfeasible. FI clearly struggling for money, and Perez brings more dollar. Ferrari prefer Bottas and he'd hardly be a shoo in for a return to Williams. After that, who's left?

[GSC]

Hope JEV gets a seat though. Quality driver

[Fernando]

Nasr will go Williams just for the wonga & former test driver.

[GSC]

Sauber confirmed already no?

[Fernando]

Id be surprised if was anyone but Nasr despite the contract, Let's face it after what Sauber did to VDG contract's mean fk all.

Last i saw JB was being linked to them so Vandoorne could come in, Though now been linked to the Top Gear job

[dyrewolfe]

It would be criminal if Hulk doesn't get a drive next season.

JB joining Chris Evans on Top Gear? That could be interesting...

He'd make a good Stig...except that he wouldn't be anonymous.

[Guest]

Honda announcing they're bringing their final engine upgrade (Mk3) to Spa & somehow believe it's on a level with the Ferrari engine. It features changes to the combustion chamber, intake & exhaust layout.

Honda - "Mk 3 [will be introduced] in Spa [and] we have already started development on next season's power unit. Mk 4 will be on the same level as Mercedes, that is the target, Mk 3 will be on a level similar to Ferrari, which is what we're aiming for. It's a big step."

Looking forward to seeing this, although it's inevitably going to disappoint

[Guest]

Kimi stays at Ferrari for 2016

[dummy_half]

Honda announcing they're bringing their final engine upgrade (Mk3) to Spa & somehow believe it's on a level with the Ferrari engine. It features changes to the combustion chamber, intake & exhaust layout.

Honda - "Mk 3 [will be introduced] in Spa [and] we have already started development on next season's power unit. Mk 4 will be on the same level as Mercedes, that is the target, Mk 3 will be on a level similar to Ferrari, which is what we're aiming for. It's a big step."

Looking forward to seeing this, although it's inevitably going to disappoint Break

Fixed

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