Hardest Heavyweight Hitters - Top Ten

First topic message reminder :


Been thinking about this in one of those idle moments when you're knackered but can't be bothered to get off the sofa and go to bed, so thought I'd post.

Who are the hardest heavyweight hitters of all time? Logically you'd have to go with shavers first although I think Big George runs him close. The rest are probably interchangeable depending on your viewpoint. One thing that makes this hard is the variation in size within one weight category - for example on a p4p basis you might say Marciano hits harder than Lewis, but then can you judge men from the same weight class on a p4p basis? Because the reality is that a man of Rockys size and weight cannot physically hit as hard as a 6'5" 240lb Lewis, so must come lower. Should he even be on the list on that basis - by that reasoning the likes of Vitali will be ahead too. Here's my initial list to get us started, can we decide on a final ten?

Ernie Shavers
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Jack Dempsey 
Mike Tyson
Max Baer
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano 

For me Foreman is the hardest with Dempsey and Marciano not far behind. Notable mentions to Joe Frazier and Shavers.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

Because the reality is that a man of Rockys size and weight cannot physically hit as hard as a 6'5" 240lb Lewis, so must come lower. Should he even be on the list on that basis - by that reasoning the likes of Vitali will be ahead too. Here's my initial list to get us started, can we decide on a final ten?

Ernie Shavers
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Jack Dempsey 
Mike Tyson
Max Baer
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano 

Contradict yourself slightly as Marciano cannot possibly hit as hard as Lewis yet Mike Tyson is above Lewis who was 5"10 perhaps 11 unsure?
Of course I completely understand as the man is a complete freak of nature.

Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I wouldn't. Is nonsense all this Marciano talk. I have seen plenty of respected people argue the Rock is overrated or does not deserve his standing in the game, Monte Cox makes a particularly compelling argument as to why Rocky is not a top five heavyweight but I am yet to see one respected expert or historian on the game who has Rocky any worse than a top ten all timer in the division.

To add though as we are now living in a strange parallel universe where Herbie Hide would beat Jeffries and Chris Aurello has quicker hands than Joe Louis suspect it is me that is wrong and Matt Skelton probably does the Rock without breaking sweat.

rowley wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I wouldn't. Is nonsense all this Marciano talk. I have seen plenty of respected people argue the Rock is overrated or does not deserve his standing in the game, Monte Cox makes a particularly compelling argument as to why Rocky is not a top five heavyweight but I am yet to see one respected expert or historian on the game who has Rocky any worse than a top ten all timer in the division.

Bingo !

The only folks who routinely trash Marciano and deny him a spot among the top ten or fifteen are those who believe that boxing was invented in 1985.

One day people will be trashing Ali, also.

My 10:

George Foreman
Rocky Marciano
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Wladamir Klitchsko
Sonny Liston
Jack Dempsey
David Tua
Frank Bruno

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

rowley wrote:To add though as we are now living in a strange parallel universe where Herbie Hide would beat Jeffries and Chris Aurello has quicker hands than Joe Louis suspect it is me that is wrong and Matt Skelton probably does the Rock without breaking sweat.

Funso Banjo would also beat Jeffries

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

That shouldn't be a problem. I'll have my 9 year old to assist me.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

That shouldn't be a problem. I'll have my 9 year old to assist me.

Get him to teach you something about boxing history while he's at it.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

That shouldn't be a problem. I'll have my 9 year old to assist me.

Get him to teach you something about boxing history while he's at it.

I doubt he'll be as silly as to claim that the blacksmith and part time boxer of whenever who would probably be a junior MW today hits harder than the WBA HW champion. But anything can happen on the Disney Channel.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

That shouldn't be a problem. I'll have my 9 year old to assist me.

Get him to teach you something about boxing history while he's at it.

I doubt he'll be as silly as to claim that the blacksmith and part time boxer of whenever who would probably be a junior MW today hits harder than the WBA HW champion. But anything can happen on the Disney Channel.

He probably wouldn't be so daft as to accuse the man of having been an alcoholic, either. Nor would he be so daft as to call him a part time fighter if he knew, as most do, that Fitzsimmons fought more often than today's fat boys.

Neither would he make sweeping statements about Marciano's punching power when there are STATISTICAL facts concerning the force with which he hit.

He would, no doubt, leave such nonsense to buffoons and part time boxing fans.

Would also doubt he would so readily dismiss the opinions of those who saw them live and shared a ring with them simply because they did not fit your arguments.

rowley wrote:Would also doubt he would so readily dismiss the opinions of those who saw them live and shared a ring with them simply because they did not fit your arguments.

I never doubt Windy's opinions. Just his eyesight.

But in all seriousness, I will always question boxing scribes whoever they are. Especially in those days when someone over 6ft was considered a freak of nature. SO many freaks then.

But we take the opinion of Larry Holmes as gospel truth

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

That shouldn't be a problem. I'll have my 9 year old to assist me.

Get him to teach you something about boxing history while he's at it.

I doubt he'll be as silly as to claim that the blacksmith and part time boxer of whenever who would probably be a junior MW today hits harder than the WBA HW champion. But anything can happen on the Disney Channel.

He probably wouldn't be so daft as to accuse the man of having been an alcoholic, either. Nor would he be so daft as to call him a part time fighter if he knew, as most do, that Fitzsimmons fought more often than today's fat boys.

Neither would he make sweeping statements about Marciano's punching power when there are STATISTICAL facts concerning the force with which he hit.

He would, no doubt, leave such nonsense to buffoons and part time boxing fans.

Mr Wind, you should know that with my thorough research, aided by a 9 year old, my opinions are beyond reproach.

Fitz had a penchant for Mr Jack Daniel type drinks (or was it jeffries).

Imperial Ghosty wrote:But we take the opinion of Larry Holmes as gospel truth

No we dont. Opinions are like bumhole muscles. we all have them. Its who you choose to believe and why. I choose to believe Holmes' opinions on Rocky because it echoes mine. And I'll add, I had these opinions on rocky before Holmes' said what he said.

But I dont think any sensible and KNOWLEDGABLE boxing fan would ever agree that Fitzsimmons hit anywhere near as hard as Haye. I'd put Fitz on par with Pac. After all, they are closer in weight terms (without stips).

HumanWindmill wrote:He probably wouldn't be so daft as to accuse the man of having been an alcoholic, either. Nor would he be so daft as to call him a part time fighter if he knew, as most do, that Fitzsimmons fought more often than today's fat boys.

Neither would he make sweeping statements about Marciano's punching power when there are STATISTICAL facts concerning the force with which he hit.

He would, no doubt, leave such nonsense to buffoons and part time boxing fans.

Ah Windy, your put downs are a joy to behold. Shame that its akin to pooring water on a duck where az is concerned - the man is incorrigible!

But hopelessly wrong.

When you are making your "list of 50" who hit harder than the Rock az, please consider - who today has broken arms with their punching power? Marciano, before putting LaStarza through the ropes and out of the ring - broke both his forearms. Medically documented historical fact.

Also when you are making your "list of 50" - remember that THAT KO of Walcott is still rated as the best knockout of all time.

Sure - you can argue that Foreman hit harder - he picked Walcott off the ground with his punch power.

But there's not 50 who hit harder. Whatever happens - he will always be there or thereabouts.

Nor is it sensible to describe Ruby Rob as a part-time blacksmith. Unless you want to consider Haye a semi-retired fighter.

You consistently show examples of double logic when thinking about old-time fighters.

We'll get you logical yet.

Sullivan had a penchant for the demon drink. Yet to be convinced about Ruby Rob.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Marciano wouldn't make the top 50 HW list of today.

Would love to see you produce 49 who are better than Marciano, or hit harder.

I already gave 100 who were better than Rock. Should I have a go at 51 who hit harder?

You'll need to learn to count to 51 first.

That shouldn't be a problem. I'll have my 9 year old to assist me.

Get him to teach you something about boxing history while he's at it.

I doubt he'll be as silly as to claim that the blacksmith and part time boxer of whenever who would probably be a junior MW today hits harder than the WBA HW champion. But anything can happen on the Disney Channel.

He probably wouldn't be so daft as to accuse the man of having been an alcoholic, either. Nor would he be so daft as to call him a part time fighter if he knew, as most do, that Fitzsimmons fought more often than today's fat boys.

Neither would he make sweeping statements about Marciano's punching power when there are STATISTICAL facts concerning the force with which he hit.

He would, no doubt, leave such nonsense to buffoons and part time boxing fans.

Mr Wind, you should know that with my thorough research, aided by a 9 year old, my opinions are beyond reproach.

Fitz had a penchant for Mr Jack Daniel type drinks (or was it jeffries).

It was Jeffries, and only after he had retired. Pity we couldn't say the same for Tubbs, Biggs, Thomas, etc., from the eighties, or did they dissolve their white powder in creatine shakes ?

But I dont think any sensible and KNOWLEDGABLE boxing fan would ever agree that Fitzsimmons hit anywhere near as hard as Haye. I'd put Fitz on par with Pac
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rowley wrote:But I dont think any sensible and KNOWLEDGABLE boxing fan would ever agree that Fitzsimmons hit anywhere near as hard as Haye. I'd put Fitz on par with Pac
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I know. No way does he hit as hard as Pacquiao.

It was Jeffries, and only after he had retired. Pity we couldn't say the same for Tubbs, Biggs, Thomas, etc., from the eighties, or did they dissolve their white powder in creatine shakes ?
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Thomas was brown(ish) powder. I doubt if he inhaled between rounds.

oxy, thanks very much.

Thank Heavens you've arrived to lend your weight behind the cause. az may have a mere eleven brain cells devoted to boxing history, but he sure manages to squeeze every last ounce out of them. The man's stamina is right up there with the best conditioned fighters of all time.

Like Marciano, for example.

HumanWindmill wrote:oxy, thanks very much.

Thank Heavens you've arrived to lend your weight behind the cause. az may have a mere eleven brain cells devoted to boxing history, but he sure manages to squeeze every last ounce out of them. The man's stamina is right up there with the best conditioned fighters of all time.

Like Marciano, for example.

Or Jeffries.

Nice Scott, but lets be honest this is getting beyond ridiculous. Manny is an excellent fighter but thus far at welterweight has had one guy off his feet and he got up to see the final bell. Fitz knocked guys bandy at middle and even if we go with the argument the heavies then were not real heavies and accept them at cruiser Fitz still stopped guys up there and even those he did not stop all remarked on his power are a true phenomena.

rowley wrote:But I dont think any sensible and KNOWLEDGABLE boxing fan would ever agree that Fitzsimmons hit anywhere near as hard as Haye. I'd put Fitz on par with Pac
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King Arthus was a myth. There are no dragons. God doesn't believe in Fitz and Windy did not see Jeffries at ringside fighting Johnson.

Fitz did not hit as hard as Haye. To even think that is silly beyond belief.

rowley wrote:Nice Scott, but lets be honest this is getting beyond ridiculous. Manny is an excellent fighter but thus far at welterweight has had one guy off his beat and he got up to see the final bell. Fitz knocked guys bandy at middle and even if we go with the argument the heavies then were not real heavies and accept them at cruiser Fitz still stopped guys up there and even those he did not stop all remarked on his power are a true phenomena.

Ah - but does he have a highlight reel? If you can punch, you have a highlight reel. Ergo he can't punch.

At least we know he exists, unlike Greb.

It was the Manny comment I was taking real issue with which even by your own low standards marks something of a tipping point where you have gone from merely misguided into the realms of parody.

rowley wrote:Nice Scott, but lets be honest this is getting beyond ridiculous. Manny is an excellent fighter but thus far at welterweight has had one guy off his feet and he got up to see the final bell. Fitz knocked guys bandy at middle and even if we go with the argument the heavies then were not real heavies and accept them at cruiser Fitz still stopped guys up there and even those he did not stop all remarked on his power are a true phenomena.

Of course its silly. If he were active today, Fitz would be a JMW at best. I reckon Hearns would have starched him with relative ease. OK I'll accept Pac was a silly comparison. Made to highlight the ridiculous comment that Fitz hit as hard as Haye.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:But I dont think any sensible and KNOWLEDGABLE boxing fan would ever agree that Fitzsimmons hit anywhere near as hard as Haye. I'd put Fitz on par with Pac
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God doesn't believe in Fitz and Windy did not see Jeffries at ringside fighting Johnson.

Neither did you, but I'm not so arrogant as to dismiss the views of those who did. It cuts both ways.

Just like cocaine, by all accounts.

Fitzsimmons knocked out seven men in one night, every one of them weighing over 200lb. and one of them weighing 240lb. and standing 6ft.7ins.

Let me guess. Pac could have done it, too.

Thus far Windy, you've commented on sex and now drugs. I dont want to know about your musical taste you old hippie you.

azania wrote:Thus far Windy, you've commented on sex and now drugs. I dont want to know about your musical taste you old hippie you.

Anything harmonious, az. Guess that would mean we'd disagree there, also.

Don't know why Windy but have always thought of you as an Everly brothers fan

As I figured, a toughman contestant masquerading as a boxer. And you reckon he would have held his own today? Duran would have chewed him up.

Apparently Tommy Morrison also had toughmen contests and beat up a few drunks in a night.

Also Audley Harrison beat up 3 men in one night winning prizefighter. Should we build up a legend about him due to that?

We agree on music then. Huge jazz fan.

Hard to compile a list but I'd struggle to put anyone under 200lbs in the Top 10.

David Tua and Razor Ruddock certainly had the power to be in there; as does Lennox Lewis.

Earnie Shavers or George foreman, as the No.1 and I lean towards George Foreman.

rowley wrote:Don't know why Windy but have always thought of you as an Everly brothers fan

Mozart, Dvorak, Django Reinhardt, early Louis Armstrong with a splash of Ry Cooder, Tom Waits and one or two others, jeff.

Regrettably, Mozart and Dvorak were pre TV, so doubtless az will trash them in his customary fashion.

Regrettably, Mozart and Dvorak were pre TV, so doubtless az will trash them in his customary fashion.
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Yeah am fairly sure it is only a matter of minutes until we are told Jamie Cullum is better, modern nutrition and creosote I suspect

Creosote Damn pentioners. Creatine you mean?

No creosote, probably has as much benefit

rowley wrote:Regrettably, Mozart and Dvorak were pre TV, so doubtless az will trash them in his customary fashion.
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Yeah am fairly sure it is only a matter of minutes until we are told Jamie Cullum is better, modern nutrition and creosote I suspect

Undoubtedly.

Dvorak, for example, wouldn't know a diminished fifth or flattened seventh if you hit him with it. Modern day mountain cyclists prove it.

HumanWindmill wrote:

rowley wrote:Don't know why Windy but have always thought of you as an Everly brothers fan

Mozart, Dvorak, Django Reinhardt, early Louis Armstrong with a splash of Ry Cooder, Tom Waits and one or two others, jeff.

Regrettably, Mozart and Dvorak were pre TV, so doubtless az will trash them in his customary fashion.

Ha. Good one windy. Actually a huge Charlie Parker fan. Also like the Marsallis brothers and Quincy Jones. But Yardbird, Miles Davis, Gilberto Gil, Freddie Hubbard are my favourites. Throw in some Etta James, Minnie Ripperton and Mahalia Jackson and I'll be in heaven.

Throw in some Etta James, Minnie Ripperton and Mahalia Jackson and I'll be in heaven.
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Do you mean that figuratively or literally, if the latter will get myself on Amazon

Talent is talent !!

End of, just look at me, I would've been a huge draw in any Era !

That Frank Sinatra got lucky I was born a few decades later, you wouldn't have heard of MY WAY if I was around then.

All da best

azania wrote:
Ha. Good one windy. Actually a huge Charlie Parker fan.

Now I'm SERIOUSLY worried. We agree on something ! I'm a huge ' Bird ' fan, also.

Eric Da Cat wrote:Talent is talent !!

End of, just look at me, I would've been a huge draw in any Era !

That Frank Sinatra got lucky I was born a few decades later, you wouldn't have heard of MY WAY if I was around then.

All da best

On the nail, Sir !