England squads to tour the UAE and South Africa

First topic message reminder :

Good afternoon all.

I accept this is a bit premature with the 5th Ashes test and ODI series still to come. However with 3 tests against Pakistan and a further 4 against South Africa to follow before the end of January I thought I would start a thread to discuss possible squad changes and team selection for these coming tours.

Due to the vast difference in conditions with which the side will be faced by in each of the series the squad selection will be more pertinent than usual.

In the UAE we will need 3 spinners in the squad. With two guaranteed to be Moeen and Rashid that leaves space for a bolter. With no real standouts there are plenty of names being thrown around with Tredwell, Riley, Panesar, Ansari, Borthwick and even 18 year Mason Crane being touted as possibilities. (I think I will politely pass over Corporals suggestion of Gary Keedy )

In short we very much need a third spinner to throw their hand up. Running through the options listed above:

Tredwell - He has displaced Riley from the Kent CC side and would offer a solid pair of hands if we wanted a more controlling option next to Rashid or Ali.

Riley - He has really struggled this season and has now not played for Kents first XI in 6 weeks. Rumours abound that his action was remodelled over the winter. I'm not sure how substantiated this however.

Panesar - Only just returned to the Essex side and is a suggestion of hope rather than expectation really. I'd love to believe he could put his recent issues behind him and find his old form as of all our spinners available he has the most pedigree, at his best, by a distance. I very much struggle to believe that he will however.

Ansari - A slow left armer who has been much improved with the ball this season. His returns are still more solid than spectacular with 39 wickets at 32.4 runs apiece in division 2. He is however a very good all round cricket who is rated highly by the England selectors and coaches. He bats anywhere in the order but vitally given our struggle for openers, and talk of Ali opening, he has opened the batting well for Surrey. A good bet for the squad in the UAE given he would offer versatility and another option at the top.

Borthwick - 116 overs bowled for 9 wickets at an average of 57 in CC cricket this season. It looks like he will need a change of county if he truly still wishes to be a spinner. He has batted very well from number 3 however with over 900 runs at an averge of 41.

Crane - Only two FC matches into his proffesional career and he's being touted for England selection. That probably sums up our spin problems as well as anything! He looks a real talent at he can turn the ball big and give it some air. We've been here with leg spinners before however.

Beyond this obvious problem there is also the question of opening batsmen and reserve batsmen, wicket keeper and seamers.

If Lyth remains we will still need a 3rd opening batsmen in the squad as reserve. If he goes then we could even need a couple. There are talks of Ali opening in the UAE where his struggles against the short ball shouldn't be exposed as brutally. Can Alex Hales find the consistency needed in test cricket? Has Nick Compton burnt his bridges? Daryl Mitchell and Rory Burns are also scoring strongly at the top of the order for their counties.

In the middle order James Taylor is coming back to form at a good time. Gary Ballance also won't be too far away I imagine. Steve Davies and Jason Roy are scoring strongly in division 2. Sam Hain is a huge talent but it is probably a winter too soon.

With question marks over Butler as a test batsmen and Bairstow as a wicket keeper, Chris Read hasn't chosen a bad season to average over 60 with the bat. If we wanted the option of an excellent gloveman for difficult keeping conditions in the UAE and also an experienced head for a tough winter then he wouldn't be a bad option in the short term.

Anderson, Broad, Wood and Finn, with Stokes supporting, are now obviously going to tour. However with Anderson injured, Broad prone to fatigue and Wood prone to injury we will need the right players in the squad behind them. In South Africa especially this will be vital.

Plunkett and Footit being called up as cover for Anderson must have a foot in the door. Chris Woakes is back playing as well. In division 1 Craig Overton, Jack Brooks, Jack Shantry, James Harris and the ever impressive Chris Rushworth are having strong seasons.

Guaranteed for the UAE tour squad - Cook, Bell, Root, Bairstow, Butler, Stokes, Ali, Rashid, Broad, Wood, Anderson, Finn.

By my logic that leaves 2 openers, a middle order batsmen, a 3rd spinner and at least one more seamer still required.

If Ali (and possibly Ansari) are considered as openers then probably only one spot up for grabs at the top of the order but possibly another middle order batsmen in with a shot?

Would you trust him to carry the tea and biscuits?

Rotten luck for Ansari. And unfortunate from an England-looking-to-the-future point of view too ; though hopefully he will have another chance.

Patel ? Not a name that was being tossed around , I think...

He has some experience at Test level ; though not particularly distinguished , as I recall. Suppose he is a like-for-like replacement - though probably somewhat less able in the field ?
Not calling him rubbish , mind. If he is called into the XI I think he will do a serviceable job ; though I don't expect him to be a wrecker with the ball.

Just a little disappointed we seem to be looking back rather than forward (or at least marking time) with this selection. Perhaps I'm being a little unfair : I will wish him luck anyway. We shall see...

alfie wrote:Rotten luck for Ansari.  And unfortunate from an England-looking-to-the-future point of view too ; though hopefully he will have another chance.

Patel ?  Not a name that was being tossed around , I think...

He has some experience at Test level ; though not particularly distinguished , as I recall.   Suppose he is a like-for-like replacement - though probably somewhat less able in the field ?
Not calling him rubbish , mind.  If he is called into the XI I think he will do a serviceable job ; though I don't expect him to be a wrecker with the ball.

Just a little disappointed we seem to be looking back rather than forward (or at least marking time) with this selection.  Perhaps I'm being a little unfair : I will wish him luck anyway.  We shall see...

Would think Patel will just be taken as back-up (as Ansari probably was). So Moeen will probably open and Rashid will play. The other options, IMO, would be to drop one of either Buttler or Bairstow or (and I think this highly unlikely), Ian Bell.

Agree with that , Hoggy. Though I did think there was an outside chance Ansari might have played as a third spin option at some point.

Expect a more orthodox selection at least for the first match. See what happens from there.

If Patel has been selected as a like for like Ansari replacement then it does suggest the Zafar was picked for a mixture of his batting and bowling. Rather than as a spinner first with his batting as a bonus. Either way Samit will now likely be carrying drinks the same as Ansari would have done as many have said.

On the side as a whole - the another option for getting both spinners in, rather than Moeen opening, would be to select Rashid in place of Stokes with Moeen moving up the order and Hales opening. I can't see the selectors going for it but given Stokes is a fairly poor player of spin it could be a reasonable option.

1.Cook (c)
2.Hales
3.Bell
4.Root
5.Bairstow
6.Moeen
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Rashid
9.Broad
10.Wood or Finn
11.Anderson

That would allow us to pick two spinners and three seamers whilst keeping the batting order as strong as possible from the squad selected.

Personally I am a doubter of Hales at test level but now he's been selected in the squad as one of only two openers he should be given a chance in my opinion. Selecting Moeen as an opener would be a risk that I'm not keen on being taken given the amount of overs he will need to get through.

There is a very strong chance Taylor may play ahead of Bairstow.

I'd hope Taylor plays ahead of Bairstow. Taylor is a brilliant player of spin, Bairstow not so much

If Hales opens, and Bell comes in at 3, England are screwed before they have even started.

Pakistan at 10/11 to win the series - simply a case of how much money one wants to print.

If someone had told you a year ago that that would e the england ODI side in 2016 you wouldve ought it.

If someone tries to tell you now that its the likely test side it takes a fair gulp of air to handle.

Mixture of daring and lack of options. Its a hell of a lot of eggs in the Hales basket given whoever gets the dreaded openers spot will almost certainly keep it till and probably through summer no matter how awful they are

Tom Curran added to the performance squad.

Cook suggests Moeen Ali will open.

Well in my view "pinch openers" do not work out in tests.
Root, Taylor a Bell...all of them may open successfully.... but Ali hard to see him work out

It also appears this is Cook's passive aggressive reaction to Selector picking Hales....something he obviously didn't want

For SA

Cook
Burns
Taylor
Root
Hain
Stokes
B Brown+ (1031 runs - 4 100s last season)
Ali
Broad
Wood or Finn
Anderson