Welsh injury list is serious...

First topic message reminder :

Well it looks like I've been done up like a kipper by a mate of mine... Usually he is spot on, but this time he is way off the mark or there is some clever tactics being played here.

Either way, my opening post now appears to be complete crud. But, as I live and die by my convictions, I'm leaving my opening post unedited below, so all can see what sh!t can sometimes come from my keyboard.

One thing I will add. Is I hope the reports today, that Warbs is fit, AWJ out for only a week and Liam ready for training is correct.


---------Original Post--------------------------------------
Just heard (from a reliable source - don't believe me, just wait and see), that AWJ injury is really a bad one, and he isn't expected to make a recovery before the end of the group stages. Also, Warbs injury is being played down, but advice from the medical teams is saying 6-8 weeks, and it looks like Liam Williams is estimated at another 8 weeks.

Not looking good for those players, but Tips is a good understudy for Warbs and Halfpenny wasn't ever going to be moved from 15, but where are we going to cover Alun Wyn...

Where Wales could suffer is the back 3 as there are potentially serious issues with all options.

Williams - we have no idea what his fitness is like. Gatland's statement that he might be in full training this week is worrying, while match fitness will not be there.
Cuthbert - not sure he is as bad as the hate being poured on him, but......
North - I cannot be the only one who winces every time he goes into contact whether in attack or defence.
Amos - very little experience or match fitness
Morgan - cracking little player, but surely better at 10. Same issues as Amos with experience etc.

In regard to how much you're pishing your keks prior to the game. Its from an NFL podcast I listen too..

Biggar can kick but does he kick them from his own half like 1/2p could?

Neither of these players were involved when Wales lost to SA away last year with Liam Williams's penalty Try fiasco in the corner in the last minute. Liam is also a better attacking FB than 1/2p - Its still possible and I'm hearing that LW has been fit for a while now so I remain optimistic.

Amos for me is also head and shoulders above Cuthbert and he will play on the wing

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar can kick but does he kick them from his own half like 1/2p could?

At the Ospreys the edge of his range is around the 10 metre line..

Wales scrum-half Rhys Webb has been ruled out of the Rugby World Cup because of a foot injury.

Webb joins full-back Leigh Halfpenny in missing the tournament after being injured in Saturday's final warm-up game with Italy in Cardiff.

Scrum-half Mike Phillips has been called up to the squad to replace Webb, while Ospreys wing Eli Walker has also been drafted back in.

Both were part of the extended training squad but did not make the final cut.

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar can kick but does he kick them from his own half like 1/2p could?

There is a Youtube vid of him nailing a 56m kick for the Ospreys. Not sure if that's his longest though.

https://youtu.be/eN2QRRcyyfs

Have they said what Webb's actual injury is, or the timeline for his return?

No Bam Bam, its all a bit cloak an dagger at the moment and I'm not convinced that no news is good news here - He's out of the RWC so lets just ope a full recovery whnever tat might be.

GavCanDance wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar can kick but does he kick them from his own half like 1/2p could?

There is a Youtube vid of him nailing a 56m kick for the Ospreys.  Not sure if that's his longest though.

Gav, I've seen him kick from the half way line on many occasions, Leigh has about 5 - 10 metres on him.

RubyGuby wrote:No Bam Bam, its all a bit cloak an dagger at the moment and I'm not convinced that no news is good news here - He's out of the RWC so lets just ope a full recovery whnever tat might be.

Agreed, real shame for both of them and the tournament itself

There's nowt wrong with Biggar's kicking, or with Liam at fullback - and as we all know he probably offers bigger attacking threat than Halfpenny. The real impact here is stability and depth. Our next-in-line backs are now the likes of Morgan, Amos, Walker... who may all be fine players in time but collectively right now they have only a handful of caps between them. They have almost zero-exposure to top-flight international rugby.

wayne wrote:
Gav, I've seen him kick from the half way line on many occasions, Leigh has about 5 - 10 metres on him.

Cheers Wayne - that's what I thought. Can't seem to find any official stats on either DB or LH range though.

Now that we know LH and RW are definitely out, I would be really interested to know just how Alun Wyn, Lliam Williams and Samson Lee are doing in terms of injury. Just knowing those 3 are going to be fit would reduce my stress levels a little!

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Morgan, Amos, Walker... who may all be fine players in time but collectively right now they have only a handful of caps between them.  They have almost zero-exposure to top-flight international rugby.  

Truw. For someone who wasn't overly concerned about winning the warm ups, I thought Gatland would have given some more game time to these fellas.

GavCanDance wrote:

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Morgan, Amos, Walker... who may all be fine players in time but collectively right now they have only a handful of caps between them.  They have almost zero-exposure to top-flight international rugby.  

Truw.  For someone who wasn't overly concerned about winning the warm ups, I thought Gatland would have given some more game time to these fellas.

I think Gatland probably had a bolluckíng from above after the first Irish game and was told to sort it out.

Someone bollucks Gats from above????

Courageous man! Gats waits. That man will now wait through eternity perhaps, but Gats will get his own back eventually. Nobody Bollucks Gats.

The area we will miss Halfpenny most is his impeccable positioning when defending at FB. He sweeps up balls incredibly well and has a better clearing kick than Williams. However, what we lose in defence we gain in attack and the aerial battle.

As for Webb, his partnership with Biggar was a real strength, but Davies has the attributes to match what Webb can do.

Phillips coming into the camp will be a positive, when he's with Wales he seems to have an uncompromising, hard edge. If that will to win rubs off on other squad members, it will be a benefit. You can be sure that the two other SH's will be pushed to perform.

Walker coming in isn't that much of a surprise, I would have selected him ahead of Cuthbert initially. Amos will be seen as FB cover should he be needed, along with Morgan.

Gatland getting sent to the headmasters office??? The man has delivered a lions tour, 3 6N titles, 2 GS, a 4th place finish at the last RWC.

I don't think their has been a more successful coach in NH rugby bar SCW in 2000-2003.

Not a chance, to them he's god regardless of his sam allardyce type methods.

Injuries happen, you can't wrap your players in cotton wool all the time. I recall Jonno saying once that teams will be 20% down at any one time (thats 3 players) so Davies, Webb, Halfpenny.. its about right.

As long as we've got all our injuries out of the way and other teams have theirs still to come, it might not be so bad!

fa0019 wrote:Injuries happen, you can't wrap your players in cotton wool all the time. I recall Jonno saying once that teams will be 20% down at any one time (thats 3 players) so Davies, Webb, Halfpenny.. its about right.

Although arguably you can add Liam Williams, Samson Lee and AWJ to that list - certainly as doubts.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:As long as we've got all our injuries out of the way and other teams have theirs still to come, it might not be so bad!

England

Hartley, Tuilagi, Corbisiero (didn't return in time)

AUS -  can't think of any to be fair but selection is an issue.. They don't know who their best halfbacks are, and those in form are not those most likely to start.

I'm not saying Gatland got sent to the headmasters office, but a quiet word after the first Ireland game wouldnt of surprised me. The Millenium stadium was packed for that first game and people wouldnt of been happy at how pathetic the team played nor the strength of team Gatland chose to play. Surely the weakest team should of been sent to Ireland with the stronger one in front of our own fans?

Shifty wrote:I'm not saying Gatland got sent to the headmasters office, but a quiet word after the first Ireland game wouldnt of surprised me.  The Millenium stadium was packed for that first game and people wouldnt of been happy at how pathetic the team played nor the strength of team Gatland chose to play.  Surely the weakest team should of been sent to Ireland with the stronger one in front of our own fans?

I always wonder why... if you want to put your players through an acid test put your best players up vs. the best oppositions players. Win rates against b sides are meaningless. Go to the oppositions backyard and give them a match.

The danger is having your WC in the friendlies. The Friendlies mean something when they are happening and the crowd are getting into the mood, but this idea that if you play well and hit hard and be really, really competitive in a Friendly then that's going to be what you deliver automatically in the pools is to me an inaccuracy.

Player's minds will always keep a part of themselves back for the real show so getting injured in a warm-up is unfortunate and you don't learn a whole lot really that mitigates the loss.

BBC wrote:Wales scrum-half Mike Phillips says he has no intention of retiring from international rugby and has not given up hope of playing at the World Cup.

Phillips, capped 94 times, has been dropped from Wales' training squad.

The 32-year-old said he was "annoyed" by the decision but stressed he would play under coach Warren Gatland again.

"I'll always have that ambition to play rugby for Wales and if they come knocking you're always going to go and represent your country," he said.

"The dream lives on, as they say. Who knows what can happen?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33979060

Mike Phillips interview with the BBC on 18th August... Wonder if he can predict the RWC winner..

Yep - always keep your options open. Take note Mr. Adam Jones...

No9 wrote:

BBC wrote:Wales scrum-half Mike Phillips says he has no intention of retiring from international rugby and has not given up hope of playing at the World Cup.

Phillips, capped 94 times, has been dropped from Wales' training squad.

The 32-year-old said he was "annoyed" by the decision but stressed he would play under coach Warren Gatland again.

"I'll always have that ambition to play rugby for Wales and if they come knocking you're always going to go and represent your country," he said.

"The dream lives on, as they say. Who knows what can happen?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33979060

Mike Phillips interview with the BBC on 18th August... Wonder if he can predict the RWC winner..

Take note Adam Jones - That is the way you handle rejection - On this occasion hats off to Iron Mike

So Phillips is the only Welshman cheering the injury of a Welsh player?

The bastereaude! Drop him again! That'll learn him!

GavCanDance wrote:Yep - always keep your options open.  Take note Mr. Adam Jones...

You suggesting Adam could have played at 9 or 15.. Guess that explains that drop goal attempt for the Blues..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqCiX1prujE - if you haven't seen it ... but then again if you haven't, where have you been ...

No9 wrote:

GavCanDance wrote:Yep - always keep your options open.  Take note Mr. Adam Jones...

You suggesting Adam could have played at 9 or 15.. Guess that explains that drop goal attempt for the Blues..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqCiX1prujE - if you haven't seen it ... but then again if you haven't, where have you been ...

HAHA! Yeah I saw it. Dare I say one of his finest (comedy) moments, along with his 'flop over' try against England one year in the 6N?! Imagine if he'd got it between the posts though. Would have been even more legendary!

Liam Williams is fit for the first game:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34193632

LordDowlais wrote:Liam Williams is fit for the first game:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34193632

... but not match fit...

Gatland on the BBC wrote:

"We want him to start against Uruguay because he's going to need some rugby," said Gatland, whose side face the South Americans in Cardiff on 20 September.  "He's been running with us. He's had a bit of pain but it's nothing to do with the injury.

Ok, it may not be directly to do with the injury, but he's been out for foot surgery.. The fact he has pain when running doesn't sound good to me...

I fear he is being pushed (maybe not directly) to be ready before he would have been if Halfpenny hadn't been injured. This could end badly..

LordDowlais wrote:Liam Williams is fit for the first game:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34193632

Great news. I really hope he stays fit throughout the tornament now. Bit scary hearing from Gatland that he's still in pain though...

Its a no win for Gatland though isnt it. Rightly hes suggesting that he would want to see Williams get some game time under his belt before the serious stuff starts. Whilst theres an increased risk of getting yet another injury by playing him that has to be balanced off by the need to get him game sharp and get the new line up some time toegther. Uragay is a nice soft start for Wales, and in context quite helpful given they are having to rejig their A team combinations at short notice.

Gooseberry wrote:Its a no win for Gatland though isnt it. Rightly hes suggesting that he would want to see Williams get some game time under his belt before the serious stuff starts. Whilst theres an increased risk of getting yet another injury by playing him that has to be balanced off by the need to get him game sharp and get the new line up some time toegther. Uragay is a nice soft start for Wales, and in context quite helpful given they are having to rejig their A team combinations at short notice.

Uruguay should have been used as the last warm up and Italy should never have been played after the squad was selected.

Gwlad wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Its a no win for Gatland though isnt it. Rightly hes suggesting that he would want to see Williams get some game time under his belt before the serious stuff starts. Whilst theres an increased risk of getting yet another injury by playing him that has to be balanced off by the need to get him game sharp and get the new line up some time toegther. Uragay is a nice soft start for Wales, and in context quite helpful given they are having to rejig their A team combinations at short notice.

Uruguay should have been used as the last warm up and Italy should never have been played after the squad was selected.

WHY?

I don't know who organises these warm up games. Is it the coaches? are the games selected at random? Any how my thought as all ways been that if you are a coach training a team/squad for the biggest tournament of all time. Then you want your team to be the best, and play the best.

As a coach surely want your players playing a team that is at least on par with your team.( Italy six nations) Rather than a team like Uraguay who are not going to put you team/squad under a lot of pressure.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Its a no win for Gatland though isnt it. Rightly hes suggesting that he would want to see Williams get some game time under his belt before the serious stuff starts. Whilst theres an increased risk of getting yet another injury by playing him that has to be balanced off by the need to get him game sharp and get the new line up some time toegther. Uragay is a nice soft start for Wales, and in context quite helpful given they are having to rejig their A team combinations at short notice.

Uruguay should have been used as the last warm up and Italy should never have been played after the squad was selected.

WHY?

I don't know who organises these warm up games.  Is it the coaches? are the games selected at random? Any how my thought as all ways been that if you are a coach training a team/squad for the biggest tournament of all time. Then you want your team to be the best, and play the best.

As a coach surely want your players playing a  team that is at least on par with your team.( Italy six nations) Rather than a team like Uraguay who are not going to put you team/squad under a lot of pressure.

Italy is on a par with Wales at the 6 Nations, sure is….

2015 61-20 Wales
2014 23-15 Wales
2013 26-9 Wales
2012 24-3 Wales
2011 24-16 Wales
2010 33-10 Wales

Wales needed a run out for certain players, a chance to vary combinations and get some familiarity. We have little strength in depth. We couldn't afford to risk serious injuries to our depleted squad already carrying 2 or 3 major ones to key players by playing too many highly competitive warm ups. WTF was Half doing playing with strapping? He could have been warmed up v Uruguay but he wasn't because England follows so soon after that game hence why he played but we knew he'd perform v Eng, likewise Webb and Biggar. We CANNOT afford to lose them but we just did. We beat Ireland away, we played 2 warm ups! We then stupidly chose our squad before the last warm up so what was the point of it? We played non RWC squad players to preserve others so we knew that was in Gatland's mind. We knew we had an easy win first up at home at RWC. We should have treated it as a warm up.

Sick of this obsession with warm ups. 1 or 2 should be plenty, why 3 when you are playing an easy team in game 1. W needed 2 max with uruguay first up.

I agree with you on the quantity of warm ups. I would imagine it has something to do with unions revenue. Especially those who are not taking part in hosting the RWC

All teams wanted at least 2 home games as warm ups didn't they, and none of the others would agree to warm ups unless they got that, meaning everyone had to travel once to make it fair.

Sadly I think Gatland has totally misjudged the Warm ups, the number wasn't the issue, it was how he's played them...

Ireland home and away wasn't a great shout, and throwing the first making the second must win was even sillier, Italy was always going to be a difficult match but I definately wouldve gone with a fringe team there ready to rock up for Uraguay with a mix of first teamers who need game time and fringe players.

Nightmare scenario was a few poor performances and key injur... oh.

OK, so lets say we hadn't played Italy and used Uruguay as our last warm up. If those injuries had happened in that game then people would still be saying the same, why did he play in that game, what was Gatland doing picking him etc etc.

So for some people our best would of gone straight into the England game without hardly any game time.

Its a contact sport these things happen you have to live with it and deal with it.

bedfordwelsh wrote:OK, so lets say we hadn't played Italy and used Uruguay as our last warm up.  If those injuries had happened in that game then people would still be saying the same, why did he play in that game, what was Gatland doing picking him etc etc.

So for some people our best would of gone straight into the England game without hardly any game time.

Its a contact sport these things happen you have to live with it and deal with it.

Doubts remain over the fitness of lock Alun Wyn Jones, back Liam Williams and prop Samson Lee.


Surely this must be a big concern for Wales.......Yes i know it is Uraguay in the first game, but if they cannot make it for that game they will not have had much game time going in to the England game. (will they be fit for that game) who knows?

majesticimperialman wrote:Doubts remain over the fitness of lock Alun Wyn Jones, back Liam Williams and prop Samson Lee.


Surely this must be a big concern for Wales.......Yes i know it is Uraguay in the first game, but if they cannot make it for that game they will not have had much game time going in to the England game. (will they be fit for that game) who knows?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-trio-samson-lee-liam-10028028

Rob Howley

"I think it’s fair to say Liam and Samson would have to play against Uruguay to be involved against England and they are likely starters against Uruguay. Time on the field is vital after so long out."

Expanding on Jones' situation, Howley added: "From what I am led to believe he will be fit for Uruguay." Though of course there is no guarantee he will be selected with the England game six days later.

The positive fitness bulletin is a major boost for a Wales camp still reeling after the loss of Leigh Halfpenny and Rhys Webb to serious injuries against Italy last weekend.

majesticimperialman wrote:Doubts remain over the fitness of lock Alun Wyn Jones, back Liam Williams and prop Samson Lee.


Surely this must be a big concern for Wales.......Yes i know it is Uraguay in the first game, but if they cannot make it for that game they will not have had much game time going in to the England game. (will they be fit for that game) who knows?

Thats an old quote, they are all back in full training ?

Williams was meant to partake in full training, including contact, last week - however that was reduced due to the foot pain. AWJ I thought was not in full training. Samson Lee technically is, but as of last week had only scrummaged against a machine.

Williams and Lee have to play, as they need game time - but with the teams tapering and reducing the intensity now in training match time, even Uruguay, will be a shock to the system. There is a real risk they could break down again - but better against Uruguay than early against England.

LondonTiger wrote:Williams was meant to partake in full training, including contact, last week - however that was reduced due to the foot pain. AWJ I thought was not in full training. Samson Lee technically is, but as of last week had only scrummaged against a machine.

Williams and Lee have to play, as they need game time - but with the teams tapering and reducing the intensity now in training match time, even Uruguay, will be a shock to the system. There is a real risk they could break down again - but better against Uruguay than early against England.

You can stop pointing out my mistakes any time y'know

Oops.

Actually Love sacks to oops.

I am stalking you.


My info is only from the radio - so they could have it wrong.

Rob Howley said


"Samson and Liam have taken a full part in training. Samson has taken a full part in scrummaging as well, and he has continued to do that."

Eli Walker is out with a hamstring injury, he has been replaced by Moriarty.