F1 Italian GP Thread - Spoilers of Qualifying & Race

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

Formula 1 returns to one of its most historic venues for what many will hope is not the final time - the Autodromo Nazionale Monza, home of the Italian Grand Prix. A race with a lineage going back to 1921, at a venue that has stood the test of time - the home race for the mighty Scuderia Ferrari, the most powerful and influential team in the sport. So why, in the wide, wide world of sports, is the Italian Grand Prix in jeopardy of losing its place on the Formula 1 calendar?

True to form, Formula One Group supremo Bernie Ecclestone has publicly dismissed the future of the event while trying to negotiate more money out of the Italian GP organizers. These tactics are crass, and not exactly new - and they're generally effective, even if they come at the expense of the race organizers and the fans who pay to see the events. If these negotiations completely fall through, however, the Italian Grand Prix may move out of Monza, perhaps to Imola, former home of the San Marino Grand Prix. Or worse, it could get removed from the calendar outright.

And for a perennial favorite among drivers, teams, and fans alike, a historic and celebrated event that's been a part of every Formula One championship season - a boast that can't be made by the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa or even the Monaco Grand Prix - its absence would be an unwelcome disappointment, especially given that the German Grand Prix was cancelled this season, the Canadian Grand Prix has been cancelled in recent years for similar reasons, and a French Grand Prix hasn't been held since ITV was the UK's F1 broadcaster.

And Monza isn't the only Italian institution of racing facing an uncertain future in F1. It'd been about two years since multiple blowouts during the British Grand Prix drew skepticism over Pirelli's competence as a tyre manufacturer for F1. Pirelli have come back under the intense scrutiny of the F1 world following two high-speed blowouts during the Belgian Grand Prix weekend. Nico Rosberg avoided a disastrous Friday practice shunt at Blanchimont when his right-rear failed at over 300 km/h. Sebastian Vettel, however, suffered a major blow to his title hopes when his tyre failed exiting Radillon while running in a comfortable third place. A passionate and irate Vettel launched a scathing criticism of Pirelli after the race, out of concerns over the safety and integrity of Formula 1's control tyres. That criticism also launched counter-criticism of whether or not repeated abuses of track limits at Spa accelerated the failures.

Pirelli tyres will be under immense scrutiny again in Monza, the fastest track on the F1 calendar, and how well they're able to handle the load and stress of the circuit's many high-speed corners. To add to the intrigue, Pirelli committed to bringing the soft and medium compounds to Monza, rather than the medium and hard compounds of recent years. Paul Hembrey plans to release the results of the investigation into Vettel's tyre failure this weekend. With Pirelli's current supply contract ending after 2016, this weekend could be critical to their future in the sport.

Last year, Lewis Hamilton emerged victorious in Monza after his Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg threw away his chances of victory with two botched entries into the first chicane. This year, the Mercedes duo are, as they've been all season, the favorites to win big in Italy. They enjoyed a trouble-free Belgian Grand Prix, their unique low-drag aero package proving effective at Spa-Francorchamps. Many decades ago, Fangio and Moss made the infamous W196 "Type Monza" streamliner a legend around the mythical banked oval at Monza. Today, the current-generation of Mercedes aces look to continue the legacy in their respective bids for the World Championship.

Vettel (pictured above) is starting the Italian GP for the first time in Ferrari red this weekend, but the four-time champion is no stranger to success for Italian teams at Monza. Seven years ago, a 21-year-old Vettel stunned the Formula 1 world when he won his first Grand Prix from pole position driving for Scuderia Toro Rosso - whose lineage extends from that of perennial underdogs Minardi. Now 28 years old and a three-time winner of the Italian GP, Vettel will look to rebound from the disappointment of his Belgian GP weekend and replicate the Monza successes of his hero Michael Schumacher, who won in his first start at Monza for Ferrari back in 1996 - before accumulating a record five victories, all with Ferrari. A great start off the line like the one he had in Budapest will certainly help. Kimi Raikkonen, now under contract through the end of next year, will also be motivated to end the 2015 season on much more competitive terms with his teammate - but he's yet to win at Monza in his storied career.

Continuing on the thread of uncertain futures in F1, Romain Grosjean swooped in and took a popular third-place finish at Spa for Lotus, his first podium finish in two years, at the site of his lowest point in the sport in 2012. It was a great moment for Grosjean that Sunday in Belgium. But since then, the Enstone-based Lotus F1 Team for whom he drives has had a multitude of setbacks that nearly threatened their chances of even making it to Monza. Impounds, legal actions, withheld sponsorship money, unpaid wages and tyre supply fees - the financial issues that have dogged Lotus for the last two seasons have reared their ugly heads again, just as the team had turned a corner competitively.

It seems a savior is on the horizon, though, as multiple outlets have linked Renault to purchase the constructor back from Genii Capital. It's no Quantum pipedream, but there's still a ways to go before it's finalized - and the sooner a deal can get done, the better it will be for everyone at the Enstone factory - especially Grosjean, who would be a slam dunk to lead a revived Renault F1 Team up the order. Another podium finish at Monza will certainly help matters - the Mercedes-powered E23 has excelled at the high-speed circuits this season, and Monza is the prime example of such a circuit.

Williams finished third and fourth in Monza a year ago, with Felipe Massa standing on the podium in a very popular result for the former Ferrari driver - and he along with Valtteri Bottas will once again be among the "best of the rest" in the slippery, lightning-fast FW36. Nico Hulkenberg will also be one to watch, as he'll look to celebrate his new two-year deal at Force India by breaking through with his first F1 podium finish - at a track where teammate Sergio Perez nearly won three years ago for Sauber.

Worth watching will be how well Red Bull drivers Daniel Ricciardo and Daniil Kvyat can drive through the field at Monza, as the two will take engine change-induced grid penalties before the race. McLaren Honda's slow, painful progression will be of interest as well - it is expected to be another poor outing for a team that is sorely lacking in the power department. There are serious questions over two-time Monza winner Fernando Alonso and teammate Jenson Button, and their futures not just at McLaren, but in Formula 1 as a whole. And another sorry outing for the former champions will only stoke the fires of speculation that now burn as hot as an overheated and underpowered Honda PU.

Everything is still to play for in the Italian Grand Prix, a race that has produced so many memorable moments in its amazing history. Let's hope these aren't the last great moments at Monza we'll be seeing this weekend.

[GSC]

Be interesting if this is more than a standard agreement. Ferrari and RB might decide sticking their heads together is their best chance to catch Merc

[dyrewolfe]

I couldn't never envisage Mercedes' providing Red Bull an engine. Ferrari seem more open & willing to embrace the competition, so fair play. Would mean Ferrari supplying Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Sauber & Haas next season & then Mercedes would supply Manor.

To be fair to Mercedes, they also supply Williams (until recently their closest rivals) and Force India.

Be interesting if this is more than a standard agreement. Ferrari and RB might decide sticking their heads together is their best chance to catch Merc

I don't think F1 works that way. In any case Ferrari have traditionally always liked doing things their own way...the engine supply thing is just a nice bit of revenue on the side.

I'd say they're still too far down on horsepower to be able to seriously challenge Mercedes...even if they supply engines in exchange for some of RB's aero secrets. Think the other teams' only hope is to try and bribe someone from Mercedes to defect.

[Guest]

I couldn't ever envisage Mercedes' providing Red Bull an engine. Ferrari seem more open & willing to embrace the competition, so fair play. Would mean Ferrari supplying Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Sauber & Haas next season & then Mercedes would supply Manor.

To be fair to Mercedes, they also supply Williams (until recently their closest rivals) and Force India.

The agreement to supply Williams was made in the winter of 2013, way before Mercedes knew Williams would be competitive, that following season. This is a different kettle of fish altogether, Mercedes' have just ended the RB era & know the power of RB as a team & the Newey influence, so aren't going to let them get a foot back in the door. That, compared to supplying Williams, is much more frightening a prospect, hence why they have rejected the opportunity. Ferrari on the other hand seemingly are open to supplying RB because they have little to lose & more to gain. Ferrari are in the same boat as RB, in playing the catch-up game, so therefore, forming a relationship with each other, would seem to suit both parties, in achieving a common goal. Sometimes, ''the enemy of my enemy is my friend.'

[GSC]

Not sure the Ferrari has been a million miles off the Merc. A match for the customer spec engine at least.

[dyrewolfe]

I couldn't ever envisage Mercedes' providing Red Bull an engine. Ferrari seem more open & willing to embrace the competition, so fair play. Would mean Ferrari supplying Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Sauber & Haas next season & then Mercedes would supply Manor.

To be fair to Mercedes, they also supply Williams (until recently their closest rivals) and Force India.

The agreement to supply Williams was made in the winter of 2013, way before Mercedes knew Williams would be competitive, that following season. This is a different kettle of fish altogether, Mercedes' have just ended the RB era & know the power of RB as a team & the Newey influence, so aren't going to let them get a foot back in the door. That, compared to supplying Williams, is much more frightening a prospect, hence why they have rejected the opportunity. Ferrari on the other hand seemingly are open to supplying RB because they have little to lose & more to gain. Ferrari are in the same boat as RB, in playing the catch-up game, so therefore, forming a relationship with each other, would seem to suit both parties, in achieving a common goal. Sometimes, ''the enemy of my enemy is my friend.'

Oh, I agree that co-operation is one of the few avenues left unexplored, so they may as well try, if they think there is any benefit in it. I'm just not sure they will gain enough to catch Mercedes, even though their collective efforts (until next season, at least).

Also, you can hardly blame Mercedes for not wanting to give any kind of help to a team that recently won 4 championships on the bounce. Could be embarrassing for the works team, if RB were to one-up them. As current leaders and champions they have a lot more to lose.

BTW not sure how much influence Newey has anymore. I think he's mainly occupied with building an Americas Cup boat for Ben Ainslie these days.

Not sure the Ferrari has been a million miles off the Merc. A match for the customer spec engine at least.

Ferrari look close to Mercedes on qualifying pace, to be sure, but Vettel still ended up a good pit stop behind Lewis by the end of the race. Similar thing to Williams - they were only a few tenths behind in quali, but nowhere near in terms of race pace.

[Guest]

The performance of that new improved works engine, does make things look ominous for next year. I think it was generally accepted that Ferrari & Mercedes PU's, before this weekend, were of similar performance, the main difference maker is the way Mercedes have successfully achieved to make full use of the ERS, in how it recharges & deploys. Ferrari's have always had an issue in that department, hence why they drop off during races, in comparison to just one lap performance.

[dyrewolfe]

It does indeed seem that way.

Just been reading an article on McLaren & Honda's woes and apparently, in addition to the ICE being down on power, they compromised on the MGU-K and MGU-H designs, to keep the overall design compact. The result is that the hybrid power is only available for a short amount of time...meaning the cars suffer a dramatic "power-cut" on long straights.

Alonso said that looking at the GPS traces from Monza, they estimate they lost about 1 sec a lap through the corners, but around 2 sec a lap on the straights.

Why Honda engine is a nightmare for McLaren

To be fair to McLaren they've acknowledged their car's shortcomings as well. Seems the original design lacked downforce, so the upgrades went too far the other way, chasing maximum theoretical downforce, rather than what could realistically be used, which ended up making the car unstable (frequent stalling of the airflow => loss of downforce), making it difficult to drive.

For their part Honda are looking at a major revision of their turbo and hybrid systems for next season (not enough tokens left to develop this season).

So, fingers crossed, we could see a competitive McLaren next season.

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