Leinster v Cardiff Blues 12th September 2015 17:15 RDS Arena

First topic message reminder :


Leinster suffered a 9-16 reversal in Edinburgh on Friday but have not begun a Guinness PRO12 campaign with successive defeats since 2003/04.

The Leinstermen's only loss at the RDS Arena in any competition since March 2013 was 14-16 to the Dragons in the PRO12 last February.

Cardiff Blues achieved their second biggest victory in PRO12 history on Sunday in defeating Zebre 61-13, their 11 tries in the match equalling the PRO12 all-time record set by the Ospreys against Treviso in 2014.

The Blues only victory in their last 17 encounters against Leinster in all tournaments was 11-3 at Cardiff City Stadium in the PRO12 in February 2011, whilst their only victory in Dublin against Leinster came in March 2004 at Donnybrook.

At RDS Arena, 5:15pm.

Referee: Ben Whitehouse (WRU, 8th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Eddie Hogan-O'Connell, Jonathan Peak (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Peter Ferguson (IRFU)
TMO: Seamus Flannery (IRFU)

Live on Sky Sports
Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/17799.php#cPLG8HDvRmwuQtC7.99

SecretFly wrote:  If it's a Welsh Ref on duty, blame the Touch Judge.  
If it's a Welsh Touch Judge blame the Irish, Scottish or Italian Ref,
if it's a Welsh Ref and Touch Judge and TMO, blame the IRFU for choosing Sunday kick-offs.  
If it's a Friday kick-off, blame Guinness for wanting to have all the Provinces play Saturday.  
If it's Saturday, blame the Provinces for only playing their academy players on the day.
If you win, blame IRFU for the small crowds that witnessed it.
If you lose, blame the Irish crowd for booing the kicker even though the basterdes always claim that they never do!!!!!!!

It is.  It's very funny.  Very true.

Ah, I see. Irish sarcasm. That's what it looks like.

It is sarcasm. Class A sarcasm. Confirmed.

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm. Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

You're right, because actually addressing the issue is too unpalatable.

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

If everything is wrong that's just a child in a pram with a bad temper. You think what you think. Every one of the things I listed on the list was 'wrong' last year. I'm not humouring it any more. It's all excuses, excuses, excuses.

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

You're right, because actually addressing the issue is too unpalatable.

What issue is that, Phil? Fridays? Saturdays? Sundays? IRFU dictating how many Regional fans show up for home games? TMOs all corrupt (the Irish ones)? Refs all corrupt (the Irish ones)? Booers booing the booers? Too few Irish Internationals showing up and not helping Welsh rugby make a profit?

What's the single issue you talk about?

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

You're right, because actually addressing the issue is too unpalatable.

What issue is that, Phil?  Fridays? Saturdays? Sundays? IRFU dictating how many Regional fans show up for home games? TMOs all corrupt (the Irish ones)?  Refs all corrupt (the Irish ones)?  Booers booing the booers?  Too few Irish Internationals showing up and not helping Welsh rugby make a profit?

What's the single issue you talk about?

Seeing as the comment you decided to employ your sarcasm to was

PhilBB wrote:It seems as though the decision to award the yellow card, which led to the 8 v 7 scrum and, therefore, the penalty try, was given by the IRFU employed Touch Judge.

Funny that.

then it would be pretty logical that the issue in question is the decision to card Josh Navidi being suggested from an Irish touch judge, and absolutely nothing to do with attendances or Roger Lewis or any other topic.

You haven't been reading Phil Scarlet.  Phil has more apples than that to chew.  This is merely another chapter.

But go ahead ignore the cyclical nature of the complaints.  The year is long - certainly the last one was!!! - and the complaints grow and grow and diversify and diversify.  I expect nothing less this year.  

On the topic, that was a Welsh ref.  If he has the same feeling as you guys that the Irish officials are corrupt and want to cheat 100% of the time, he'd have over-ruled.  Like I've said, Nigel thinks nothing of over-ruling.  Authority lies with the ref - but blame, well.................................. we all know where that always rests.

As an Leinster supporter I'll be ignored but when did the linesman suggest the yellow card.

Leinster had the driving maul on, the maul was well set and the drive was on, Navidi came round the blindside to disrupt.  A couple of Blues went in the openside and collapsed the maul.  The welsh ref blew his whistle, pointed to Navidi and pulled out his yellow card immediately.  There wasn't any consultation was there? (don't have sound on the replays, and they didn't go over to each other).

From my own perspective, as a Leinster fan, it could have been a penalty try right there, the drive was on and the line was in sight.  Definitely a penalty.  And if it was a yellow card, then it was the player from the openside which should have received the yellow card, which looked like a lock, that binning would have depowered the resulting scrum more than losing a backrow forward and the result would have been the same.

What were peoples views on some of the younger Leinster lads?

By all accounts Fanning, Farrell, Daly were all ripping it up in the AIL over the weekend... would they have been better options for Leinster in this match?

The ref was welsh and he has the final say. To suggest anything else is rediculous. If they were interested in doing everything to let Leinster win, then they would have had an IRFU ref no?

The ref was poor for both teams, Cardiff just couldn't get their hands on the ball enough and really never looked like scoring a try. Patchell's boot kept them in it after being awarded dubious penalties near the hal way line.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The ref was welsh and he has the final say. To suggest anything else is rediculous. If they were interested in doing everything to let Leinster win, then they would have had an IRFU ref no?

The ref was poor for both teams, Cardiff just couldn't get their hands on the ball enough and really never looked like scoring a try. Patchell's boot kept them in it after being awarded dubious penalties near the hal way line.

Fair assessment, same as Leinster were awarded dubious penalties I would say.

As is the time honoured tradition the losing side (in close matches) blames the ref! I would like to know what Navidi's yellow was for mind, not sure I've read or heard any explanation for it.

The biggest crime of the match, however, was not committed buy the ref but by Lewis Jones for taking a tap penalty in very kickable range to give the blues the chance of a losing bonus! Talk about taking the wrong option...

The yellow was given for coming in at the side at the maul. I haven't watched it back but at the time I thought it was very harsh.

Young ref, he'll learn and all that good stuff but that was certainly a better Cardiff performance than in recent years. Patchell has one hell of a boot on him.

I thought the maul had rolled in his direction so he was entitled to join where he did, hard to see on the replays though.

Aye patchell has a fair old boot on him, similar range to halfpenny, he just needs the consistency now.

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

'Cringworthingly' No matter, Stone. I get what you mean

Yes, I did think you were starting to wonder o0. I thought maybe you had been wondering for some time, something that your thoughts on IRFU paying people to comment here seems to confirm, but I trust you, Stone. I accept that you're just starting to wonder.

On another note, have you ever been abducted by Aliens?

I'm just curious. Have a piece of cake

Leinster v Cardiff Blues Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixA500XvI9k

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

'Cringworthingly'  No matter, Stone. I get what you mean  

Yes, I did think you were starting to wonder o0.  I thought maybe you had been wondering for some time, something that your thoughts on IRFU paying people to comment here seems to confirm, but I trust you, Stone. I accept that you're just starting to wonder.

On another note, have you ever been abducted by Aliens?

I'm just curious. Have a piece of cake  

Ha ha. You're a funny little man ButtMunch. Funny and creepy. Did you really spend all that money on a new laptop so you could spend all day stalking me?

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

'Cringworthingly'  No matter, Stone. I get what you mean  

Yes, I did think you were starting to wonder o0.  I thought maybe you had been wondering for some time, something that your thoughts on IRFU paying people to comment here seems to confirm, but I trust you, Stone. I accept that you're just starting to wonder.

On another note, have you ever been abducted by Aliens?

I'm just curious. Have a piece of cake  

Ha ha. You're a funny little man ButtMunch. Funny and creepy. Did you really spend all that money on a new laptop so you could spend all day stalking me?

Remember, Stone, big breath ...... and relax. Or maybe count sheep. Apparently that helps some people

Sooooo, Mr Stone, you also believe that you're being followed? That you have a stalker I would very much like to help assure you that you don't. That if I was to be a stalker, I would stalk someone worthy of being weird over. Not you my friend

Now about these Aliens? Have they ordered you not to mention them?

P.s money on a laptop? What money

Don Blues wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The ref was welsh and he has the final say. To suggest anything else is rediculous. If they were interested in doing everything to let Leinster win, then they would have had an IRFU ref no?

The ref was poor for both teams, Cardiff just couldn't get their hands on the ball enough and really never looked like scoring a try. Patchell's boot kept them in it after being awarded dubious penalties near the hal way line.

Fair assessment, same as Leinster were awarded dubious penalties I would say.  

As is the time honoured tradition the losing side (in close matches) blames the ref!  I would like to know what Navidi's yellow was for mind, not sure I've read or heard any explanation for it.

The biggest crime of the match, however, was not committed buy the ref but by Lewis Jones for taking a tap penalty in very kickable range to give the blues the chance of a losing bonus!  Talk about taking the wrong option...  

1min 10secs on the Youtube highlights clip.
Linesman calls it on his mic then PC Whitehouse turns on his blues and twos. You're fecking nicked mate.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The yellow was given for coming in at the side at the maul. I haven't watched it back but at the time I thought it was very harsh.

Young ref, he'll learn and all that good stuff but that was certainly a better Cardiff performance than in recent years. Patchell has one hell of a boot on him.

Good to hear and after last week, Patchell must've been wearing his own wellies this time.

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

'Cringworthingly'  No matter, Stone. I get what you mean  

Yes, I did think you were starting to wonder o0.  I thought maybe you had been wondering for some time, something that your thoughts on IRFU paying people to comment here seems to confirm, but I trust you, Stone. I accept that you're just starting to wonder.

On another note, have you ever been abducted by Aliens?

I'm just curious. Have a piece of cake  

Ha ha. You're a funny little man ButtMunch. Funny and creepy. Did you really spend all that money on a new laptop so you could spend all day stalking me?

Remember, Stone, big breath ...... and relax. Or maybe count sheep. Apparently that helps some people

Sooooo, Mr Stone, you also believe that you're being followed? That you have a stalker I would very much like to help assure you that you don't. That if I was to be a stalker, I would stalk someone worthy of being weird over. Not you my friend

Now about these Aliens? Have they ordered you not to mention them?

P.s money on a laptop? What money

Just like I thought ButtMunch.

You're as lonely as you are boring champ. Nitey nite.

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

'Cringworthingly'  No matter, Stone. I get what you mean  

Yes, I did think you were starting to wonder o0.  I thought maybe you had been wondering for some time, something that your thoughts on IRFU paying people to comment here seems to confirm, but I trust you, Stone. I accept that you're just starting to wonder.

On another note, have you ever been abducted by Aliens?

I'm just curious. Have a piece of cake  

Ha ha. You're a funny little man ButtMunch. Funny and creepy. Did you really spend all that money on a new laptop so you could spend all day stalking me?

Remember, Stone, big breath ...... and relax. Or maybe count sheep. Apparently that helps some people

Sooooo, Mr Stone, you also believe that you're being followed? That you have a stalker I would very much like to help assure you that you don't. That if I was to be a stalker, I would stalk someone worthy of being weird over. Not you my friend

Now about these Aliens? Have they ordered you not to mention them?

P.s money on a laptop? What money

Just like I thought ButtMunch.

You're as lonely as you are boring champ. Nitey nite.

Being lonely isn't a luxury I can afford. So have you invented anything else since we last had a little chat? I have to say you're very good at invented things. In fact there's a few of you that's very good at inventing things. Like a little creative workshop for the paranoid delusional

Goodnight, Stone, and remember, don't let the sun set on your wrath. Take a cup of Horlicks an watch your favourite Spongebob Squarepants cartoon. That should help

.

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It is sarcasm.  Class A sarcasm.  Confirmed.  

All of it direct and recorded REAL complaints coming from Welsh Regional fans last year.

Of course it's Sarcasm.  Not one step an Irish side/players/crowds/IRFU can make but it's the wrong one.  

The only response to such continuing guff can be sarcasm.  

I'm starting to wonder if the IRFU pay people to blO'g in their defence on message boards as well as referees.

If so, the effects of their megabucks player contracts need to be looked at as the quality of poster in their employee is cringworthingly poor

'Cringworthingly'  No matter, Stone. I get what you mean  

Yes, I did think you were starting to wonder o0.  I thought maybe you had been wondering for some time, something that your thoughts on IRFU paying people to comment here seems to confirm, but I trust you, Stone. I accept that you're just starting to wonder.

On another note, have you ever been abducted by Aliens?

I'm just curious. Have a piece of cake  

Ha ha. You're a funny little man ButtMunch. Funny and creepy. Did you really spend all that money on a new laptop so you could spend all day stalking me?

Remember, Stone, big breath ...... and relax. Or maybe count sheep. Apparently that helps some people

Sooooo, Mr Stone, you also believe that you're being followed? That you have a stalker I would very much like to help assure you that you don't. That if I was to be a stalker, I would stalk someone worthy of being weird over. Not you my friend

Now about these Aliens? Have they ordered you not to mention them?

P.s money on a laptop? What money

Just like I thought ButtMunch.

You're as lonely as you are boring champ. Nitey nite.

Being lonely isn't a luxury I can afford. So have you invented anything else since we last had a little chat? I have to say you're very good at invented things. In fact there's a few of you that's very good at inventing things. Like a little creative workshop for the paranoid delusional

Goodnight, Stone, and remember, don't let the sun set on your wrath. Take a cup of Horlicks an watch your favourite Spongebob Squarepants cartoon. That should help

Sorry I'd gone to bed so didn't realise you'd left the drivelatron on. Bet you gave yourself a right old bO'ne for that last one too. You keep up with the banality today champ. You're special.

SecretFly wrote:

What issue is that, Phil?  Fridays? Saturdays? Sundays? IRFU dictating how many Regional fans show up for home games? TMOs all corrupt (the Irish ones)?  Refs all corrupt (the Irish ones)?  Booers booing the booers?  Too few Irish Internationals showing up and not helping Welsh rugby make a profit?

What's the single issue you talk about?

In this context - the fact the referees contracted to the IRFU are colleagues of the players.

It's not healthy IF the league wishes to be taken seriously. However, as the IRFU Annual Report shows, the IRFU have no interest in ensuring that the league is taken seriously as the 'Branches' are just there to feed the national team.

If you want a proper league, the 'Branches' need to be privately owned. It's that simple.

SecretFly wrote:You haven't been reading Phil Scarlet.  Phil has more apples than that to chew.  This is merely another chapter.

But go ahead ignore the cyclical nature of the complaints.  The year is long - certainly the last one was!!! - and the complaints grow and grow and diversify and diversify.  I expect nothing less this year.  

On the topic, that was a Welsh ref.  If he has the same feeling as you guys that the Irish officials are corrupt and want to cheat 100% of the time, he'd have over-ruled.  Like I've said, Nigel thinks nothing of over-ruling.  Authority lies with the ref - but blame, well.................................. we all know where that always rests.

Nigel. Ah, the bastion of self publicising awful refereeing.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:As an Leinster supporter I'll be ignored but when did the linesman suggest the yellow card.

Leinster had the driving maul on, the maul was well set and the drive was on, Navidi came round the blindside to disrupt.  A couple of Blues went in the openside and collapsed the maul.  The welsh ref blew his whistle, pointed to Navidi and pulled out his yellow card immediately.  There wasn't any consultation was there? (don't have sound on the replays, and they didn't go over to each other).

From my own perspective, as a Leinster fan, it could have been a penalty try right there, the drive was on and the line was in sight.  Definitely a penalty.  And if it was a yellow card, then it was the player from the openside which should have received the yellow card, which looked like a lock, that binning would have depowered the resulting scrum more than losing a backrow forward and the result would have been the same.

What were peoples views on some of the younger Leinster lads?

By all accounts Fanning, Farrell, Daly were all ripping it up in the AIL over the weekend... would they have been better options for Leinster in this match?

They are mic'd up. You've seen the replay - tell us what Navidi did.

Cardiff Dave wrote:Leinster v Cardiff Blues Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixA500XvI9k

You can see the touch judge making the call. And you can see Navidi on his feet, parallel to the touch line.

The touch judge is about 5metres away.

Please, somebody have a go at justifying that.

PhilBB wrote:

The touch judge is about 5metres away.
.

He missed the "not straight" lineout throw though, conveniently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixA500XvI9k#t=1m01s

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:You haven't been reading Phil Scarlet.  Phil has more apples than that to chew.  This is merely another chapter.

But go ahead ignore the cyclical nature of the complaints.  The year is long - certainly the last one was!!! - and the complaints grow and grow and diversify and diversify.  I expect nothing less this year.  

On the topic, that was a Welsh ref.  If he has the same feeling as you guys that the Irish officials are corrupt and want to cheat 100% of the time, he'd have over-ruled.  Like I've said, Nigel thinks nothing of over-ruling.  Authority lies with the ref - but blame, well.................................. we all know where that always rests.

Nigel. Ah, the bastion of self publicising awful refereeing.

Nigel ain't the point. Keep to the point. The Welsh ref could have over-ruled. Surely a Rules man would see even more clearly than you guys the seasonal attempts of Irish officials to load the dice in favour of their Provinces and act accordingly by over-ruling the obvious attempts to influence the games illegally???

Nah, the sideline guy has superiority because he's Irish I suppose.

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:You haven't been reading Phil Scarlet.  Phil has more apples than that to chew.  This is merely another chapter.

But go ahead ignore the cyclical nature of the complaints.  The year is long - certainly the last one was!!! - and the complaints grow and grow and diversify and diversify.  I expect nothing less this year.  

On the topic, that was a Welsh ref.  If he has the same feeling as you guys that the Irish officials are corrupt and want to cheat 100% of the time, he'd have over-ruled.  Like I've said, Nigel thinks nothing of over-ruling.  Authority lies with the ref - but blame, well.................................. we all know where that always rests.

Nigel. Ah, the bastion of self publicising awful refereeing.

Nigel ain't the point.  Keep to the point.  The Welsh ref could have over-ruled.  Surely a Rules man would see even more clearly than you guys the seasonal attempts of Irish officials to load the dice in favour of their Provinces and act accordingly by over-ruling the obvious attempts to influence the games illegally???

Nah, the sideline guy has superiority because he's Irish I suppose.

Just like you did earlier in the thread then?

You want to keep to the point too Scarlet?

How come you always slide across the point - over on the other thread, you again slid across the point.

The point - Chunky's very point is a Touch Judge cheating.............. cheating.......... to change the nature of the game.

I again now put it to you. If all Welsh Officials see what you chaps see with their own eyes, season after season - why don't they do something about it during games and over-rule the sideline 'Irish' (touch judges or TMOs) people who try to colour their views about what happened or direct them to judge an event in a certain way?

Why don't Welsh officials have their own counter-terrorism unit and down the black cheating Provincialists using their own covert operation?

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'

Never more apt.

SecretFly wrote:You want to keep to the point too Scarlet?

How come you always slide across the point - over on the other thread, you again slid across the point.

The point - Chunky's very point is a Touch Judge cheating.............. cheating.......... to change the nature of the game.

I again now put it to you.  If all Welsh Officials see what you chaps see with their own eyes, season after season - why don't they do something about it during games and over-rule the sideline 'Irish' (touch judges or TMOs) people who try to colour their views about what happened or direct them to judge an event in a certain way?

Why don't Welsh officials have their own counter-terrorism unit and down the black cheating Provincialists using their own covert operation?

To be honest I don't know.  As I have said a few times I am not 100% in the 'conspiracy camp', whether that is how people perceive it or not.  I do think there are some really woeful officials out there.  Also, I do believe that one or two have a pre-conceived opinion of who should win the game (or who will collapse the scrums etc), which does have an impact on how they officiate the game.  Putting it in a simplistic way, it is much like posters on here have a preconceived opinion of other posters, and as such read their posts to suit those opinions, as opposed to reading the post as just post.

If there are incorrect calls being made by touch judges, or TMOs, regardless of nationality, and the ref decides to believe them, then that could well be because they are working in a team, and as such they think that they should believe what their team are saying.  Again taking it to simplistic terms, I would like to think that all of my work mates are working correctly, and I would not feel the need to go around checking their work to make sure they are, however if they were not doing their job correctly the results could well be disastrous for the company.

Finally, personally I couldn't give two hoots about keeping to the point or not.  And the point changes with every reply, as that is how the verbal jousting on here works.  The actual argument doesn't seem to really matter in the end, as long as people get to either start having personal digs at people, or show how clever a wordsmith they are, or both.  However seeing as earlier you yourself didn't want to keep to the point then starting to get shirty with others for not keeping to the post seems pretty rich.  Have you ever been in politics, if not I would suggest that it may well be a good potential source of employment for you.

Good reply SS.

These mistakes, deliberate or not, can't be that obvious then.

ScarletSpiderman wrote: However seeing as earlier you yourself didn't want to keep to the point then starting to get shirty with others for not keeping to the post seems pretty rich.  Have you ever been in politics, if not I would suggest that it may well be a good potential source of employment for you.

I didn't get shirty with anyone.   I debate.  I don't call people idiots, disgraceful, nut-jobs, wa*kers, or f**ksticks

I debate.  And some people usually get hot when you only debate because it gives them no leverage to say: Caulm down! Caulm down! - like them Liverpool lads of old.  They want you losing your head and then losing the moral authority as you go into meltdown about what's being said about you.

I don't.  I just keep goading with points.  Yes, sarcastic ones a lot; yes smartassed ones at times.  I enjoy debate.  I'm smiling a lot as I joust.  But debate still has rules.  Debate is one person putting a point (all Irish officials are corrupt for example), another person retorting with counter points and then the first person trying to explain away those counter points whilst keeping the logic of his own point.

That's how it works.  And I say debating logic forbids me from taking seriously the infinite points of Chunky who has admitted he simply wants Pro12 to fail and be replaced with a B&I League.  He stated this himself - not me implying anything.  
So forgive me my lack of interest in his endless points about how corrupt we all are over here in Ireland (although I still put my counter-points to keep me and him entertained).  

However, if we kept saying the Welsh are corrupt over and over again, year upon year, then it's certain there would be numerous mental meltdowns over there and quite a number of RED EXCLAMATION marks hoisted as the offended tried to end free speech or having to listen to it anyway.

I've seen a few RED EXCLAMATION marks over the last few days and I can confirm I certainly never pressed one.  But Chunky has certainly said enough in his time for him to have built up a dossier that  I will not forget or isolate from his current guff.  I'll speak to Chunky always in the knowledge of the full gamut of his published views.  No absolution for past opinions that his present ones just solidify.

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote: However seeing as earlier you yourself didn't want to keep to the point then starting to get shirty with others for not keeping to the post seems pretty rich.  Have you ever been in politics, if not I would suggest that it may well be a good potential source of employment for you.

I didn't get shirty with anyone.   I debate.  I don't call people idiots, disgraceful, nut-jobs, wa*kers, or f**ksticks

I debate.  And some people usually get hot when you only debate because it gives them no leverage to say: Caulm down! Caulm down! - like them Liverpool lads of old.  They want you losing your head and then losing the moral authority as you go into meltdown about what's being said about you.

I don't.  I just keep goading with points.  Yes, sarcastic ones a lot; yes smartassed ones at times.  I enjoy debate.  I'm smiling a lot as I joust.  But debate still has rules.  Debate is one person putting a point (all Irish officials are corrupt for example), another person retorting with counter points and then the first person trying to explain away those counter points whilst keeping the logic of his own point.

That's how it works.  And I say debating logic forbids me from taking seriously the infinite points of Chunky who has admitted he simply wants Pro12 to fail and be replaced with a B&I League.  He stated this himself - not me implying anything.  
So forgive me my lack of interest in his endless points about how corrupt we all are over here in Ireland (although I still put my counter-points to keep me and him entertained).  

However, if we kept saying the Welsh are corrupt over and over again, year upon year, then it's certain there would be numerous mental meltdowns over there and quite a number of RED EXCLAMATION marks hoisted as the offended tried to end free speech or having to listen to it anyway.

I've seen a few RED EXCLAMATION marks over the last few days and I can confirm I certainly never pressed one.  But Chunky has certainly said enough in his time for him to have built up a dossier that  I will not forget or isolate from his current guff.  I'll speak to Chunky always in the knowledge of the full gamut of his published views.  No absolution for past opinions that his present ones just solidify.

So is this avoiding the points I answered for you, or sliding?

See?

In one ear out the other

I'll slide back to your Answer but you won't like mine.

I am trying to understand you, I really am. But I am starting to understand why people use the ignore button.

Fly wrote:But debate still has rules. Debate is one person putting a point (all Irish officials are corrupt for example), another person retorting with counter points and then the first person trying to explain away those counter points whilst keeping the logic of his own point.

Love that bit, very well said

PhilBB wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Leinster v Cardiff Blues Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixA500XvI9k

You can see the touch judge making the call. And you can see Navidi on his feet, parallel to the touch line.

The touch judge is about 5metres away.

Please, somebody have a go at justifying that.

So are you saying that the Blues didn't commit a penalty offense at the maul?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

To be honest I don't know.  As I have said a few times I am not 100% in the 'conspiracy camp', whether that is how people perceive it or not.  I do think there are some really woeful officials out there.  Also, I do believe that one or two have a pre-conceived opinion of who should win the game (or who will collapse the scrums etc), which does have an impact on how they officiate the game.  Putting it in a simplistic way, it is much like posters on here have a preconceived opinion of other posters, and as such read their posts to suit those opinions, as opposed to reading the post as just post.

If there are incorrect calls being made by touch judges, or TMOs, regardless of nationality, and the ref decides to believe them, then that could well be because they are working in a team, and as such they think that they should believe what their team are saying.  Again taking it to simplistic terms, I would like to think that all of my work mates are working correctly, and I would not feel the need to go around checking their work to make sure they are, however if they were not doing their job correctly the results could well be disastrous for the company.

Finally, personally I couldn't give two hoots about keeping to the point or not.  And the point changes with every reply, as that is how the verbal jousting on here works.  The actual argument doesn't seem to really matter in the end, as long as people get to either start having personal digs at people, or show how clever a wordsmith they are, or both.  However seeing as earlier you yourself didn't want to keep to the point then starting to get shirty with others for not keeping to the post seems pretty rich.  Have you ever been in politics, if not I would suggest that it may well be a good potential source of employment for you.

On the first paragraph.  Shame it is then that the only Welsh ref, sideline-official, or TMO I ever hear Welsh people openly criticise as being bad at his job is, ironically, the ref that is often quoted as being the best in the world, Nigel Owens!!!  
How strange that he above all the other Pro12 standard (sub-standard) refs we all talk about each week, only Nigel gets the hit from his fellow countrymen.  
Would it have anything to do with the fact that he has little problem with the style of Irish sides, that Irish people seem to love him or that he never refs a Welsh International game? Easy to attack a ref that you know will never ref you in an International game.
So this point that you and Lord often raise when the Irish put the pressure on: "I'm not saying only Irish and I'm not claiming all Irish refs are corrupt - it's the quality all round".  It's a pity then that practical examples of shoddy reffing TMOing amongst Welsh officials don't get as much airplay and dedicated threads as our lot do.  Then we might believe the publicity that it's about ALL officials and not pointedly directed at the officials of one Nation.  Prove it over the coming year by example that this is all inclusive and that if a Welsh ref is seen to allow a Welsh side beat an Irish one with dodgy reffing, you'll bring it up without being coaxed.

Your second paragraph I can't accept.  IF Welsh officials felt as strongly as you people that Irish officials are taking the P*ss or simply P*ss poor, they'd let the world, the Pro12 organisers, the media and those corrupt Irish officials themselves know about it.  And if it persisted, they'd pointedly start fully over-ruling them and pointedly writing reports to the reffing overlord about them.  Is this taking place?  The Welsh refs look at games on TV and see what you guys see.

I already amswered your third paragraph - but that didn't interest you Only the ones I didn't answer happened to be unfortunately the ones you wanted answers on.  So here they are.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I am trying to understand you, I really am.  But I am starting to understand why people use the ignore button.

You don't. Even when I'm not talking to you, you pop up and whisper in my ear Quit that btw, it tickles too much.

SecretFly wrote:the ref that is often quoted as being the best in the world, Nigel Owens!!!

I can categorically state that that is not an opinion that I agree with, in fact I hate his whole spirit of the game bollox. This is a typical version of a ref that allows teams to cheat to let the game look like it is flowing. Nigel Owens does not hold as much acclaim in his own country.

Secretfly, you like all your other Irish brethren on here cannot see the issues that are being caused by having officials AND players all under one umbrella.

Yes the refereeing in our league is crap, and it needs to be sorted. But when you have officials and players/teams all feeding from the same trough it brings in a whole new world of debate, why cant you see this ?

Yeah...I've said that already, Lord. You don't think Nigel is a World Class ref.
And I said you'd have won a WC probably three times already had he been able to ref you - and not because he'd be biased, because he'd like the way you play in the spirit of the game. ;0 You know it, I know it.

LordDowlais wrote:Secretfly, you like all your other Irish brethren on here cannot see the issues that are being caused by having officials AND players all under one umbrella.

Yes the refereeing in our league is crap, and it needs to be sorted. But when you have officials and players/teams all feeding from the same trough it brings in a whole new world of debate, why cant you see this ?

I can see that the complainers about reffing quality constantly evade talking about their own men. That's what I see. The men most exercised about the issue refuse to move beyond Irish officials and Nige....

SecretFly wrote:Yeah...I've said that already, Lord.  You don't think Nigel is a World Class ref.  
And I said you'd have won a WC probably three times already had he been able to ref you - and not because he'd be biased, because he'd like the way you play in the spirit of the game. ;0  You know it, I know it.

This spirit of the game is bollox. The spirit of the game is to take the field and play fair, not go and take the field and try and bend the rules to suit yourself and gain an advantage. If the teams played to the spirit of the game, then the ref would not have to turn a blind eye for the spirit of the game. So when a ref comes out and punishes sides, then he is doing it because those sides are NOT playing in the spirit of the game, thus we had the situation we did between Wales and Ireland during the 6N.

LordDowlais wrote:Nigel Owens does not hold as much acclaim in his own country.

The "Best referee in the world"