Trolling, offensive, spot on?

Couldn't get beyond commenting on these quotes from the Times even though they'll lead to mud slinging. Borderline racist/xenophobic/anglophobic bile from former nz lock Ali Williams.

"(the English) always carry this consciousness of their great past and would like to be reminded of their great empire. It's this that explains why all the big rugby nations want with all their heart to beat them: Australia, France, Nz, SA. The Welsh hate them and I'm not going to mention the Irish. They create a consensus against them. The worst defeats are those against the English. Perhaps because they lack nobility in their victories.'

On Twickenham: 'It is the most hostile stadium there is. It is worse than Pretoria. The ambience is vindictive. The supporters sing and applaud when we miss a penalty, and whistle us if we do something they disapprove of in terms of playing style. If the English,the only team that nobody wants to see win, win the wc it will be a dark day.'

On drinking: '(the players) never let themselves go. They never fraternise.Next to them New Zealanders seem like Latins.'

I know there are a few here that'll nod along, hopefully tongue in cheek, but what the actual ****! When I break away from thinking of the English Empire (not British now apparently) I notice he s not even mentioned ths Scots!

Winning badly canb e pointed at a few but this current team and staff?

Twickers hostile!? Ive been twice vs Scot and its been friendly and funny rivalry. There was amore hostile atmosphere at Scotland Italy I went to this year!

Now the team don't drink enough where are those dwarfs!? No idea who he means by Latins but judging by the rest Iassume hes being offensive.

I actually feel that the English media is the worst when it comes to English sporting teams. They put them up as if they are world beaters and kick them down if they don't win.

Never had any issues with the English supporters and Twickers is a great ground and never had anything other than a great time there and the English fans were excellent.

I think that his gripe may be more with the English media than the English themselves, he just doesn't realise it

Great Loftus is not the worst

Ali Williams spreads his lips and shows his class.

The guy ain't Einstein. Clearly not one of the great thinkers of our age.

I think Ali was paid by the Organisers behind the scenes to get the show going with a little well timed firelighter fuel

It'll get coverage....and everyone will be stirred out of their stupors: "What did that bastereaude say about us???!!!! Oh it's the WC next week!!! Forgot about that!"


I think it's an appetiser from Ali reminding folks that war will commence soon.

Ali Williams is a good friend of Richie McCaw. When McCaw writes about him in his book, it's clear that he would happily go into battle with Williams, and know that his mate would always be there, but he acknowledges that Williams does sometimes seem to go out of his way to get up people's noses, including All Blacks management and other players.

It reminded me of the way Martin Johnson talks about Austin Healey.

I wouldn't take Williams comments to heart. He might believe every word of that on a given day, and then wake up the next morning telling everyone how wonderful Jonny Wilkinson is.

As evidence, I give you this NZ Herald interview:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10913488

He comes across as a bit of a fud to me.
If he disliked England/the English that much, why did he play there?
As an aside, I remember someone posting a like on here a good while ago talking about the animosity at kiwi grounds so it is hardly a uniquely-English issue. Every country has its idiot "supporters"

Indeed. There are some sectors of the English media and support which do themselves no credit, but I think if we're being honest we can all find similar examples in our own rugby nations. I think I could replace English with any nation in that sentence.

If you're a player sometimes creating an us versus them mindset might be useful as motivation but it shouldn't extend beyond the pitch.

Reminds me of Marc Lievremont's comments before the 6 Nations game in 2011.

England won that game.

Anyway, I've heard worse. Can't believe he gets offended by the atmosphere at Twickers. The sound of champagne corks bouncing off range rovers is hardly 'vindictive'.

Cyril wrote:Reminds me of Marc Lievremont's comments before the 6 Nations game in 2011.

England won that game.

Anyway, I've heard worse. Can't believe he gets offended by the atmosphere at Twickers. The sound of champagne corks bouncing off range rovers is hardly 'vindictive'.

I agree. If anything Twickers tends to lack atmosphere and is overpopulated by the sort of corporate hospitality types who leave Wimbledon Centre Court seats unused.

Cyril wrote:Reminds me of Marc Lievremont's comments before the 6 Nations game in 2011.

England won that game.

Anyway, I've heard worse. Can't believe he gets offended by the atmosphere at Twickers. The sound of champagne corks bouncing off range rovers is hardly 'vindictive'.

Ali Williams is only saying what the like of Scott Quinell, Imanol Harenoudiky( spelling)
That is, AS LONG AS WE BEAT THE ENGLISH.

In would not worry too much about it to be honest.

What did Scott Quinnell say? Are you sure you haven't got confused by Kelly Jones, Madge?

I'm not sure this should come as a surprise to anyone that follows international rugby. He's not stating anything new. I think it's how a number of players genuinely feel. I'm sure that Hansen and co won't be thanking him, it's makes their job more difficult.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11512642

Looks like it's a translation issue. Still think underlying issues are there for NZ. Difficult to play at Twickenham, British media is overbearing etc.

All colonials have a chip on their shoulder. And they are also right about the arrogance and lack of humility in English rugby. They are talking themselves as potential winners of RWC 2015 yet they haven't won a 6 Nations in 4 years!

Gwlad.

You could turn that argument around. Wales have not won a Rugby World Cup, but have won 3/4 grand slams/6ns titles.

What i am saying is that you don't have to win one with out winning the other.

majesticimperialman wrote:Gwlad.

You could turn that argument around. Wales have not won a Rugby World Cup, but have won 3/4 grand slams/6ns titles.

What i am saying is that you don't have to win one with out winning the other.

Of course you don't but there is nothing about England's performance in the last RWC cycle that suggests they are real candidates except for this being  a home RWC and that they have a queue of average players to fill the gaps and be the next best thing for a week….they are so clueless they are trying to fit a round peg into a big square hole in midfield.

majesticimperialman wrote:Gwlad.

You could turn that argument around. Wales have not won a Rugby World Cup, but have won 3/4 grand slams/6ns titles.

What i am saying is that you don't have to win one with out winning the other.

Never mind that. Can you show me this Scott Quinnell quote you mentioned, please?

Hard to see past England, they probably have the edge over Australia at Twickers, and with Wales injuries they are favourites to miss out.

The winner of this group should make a Semi final and well they can be whoever deals with it on the day, a final is a real possibility for England, and with a home finalist I wouldn't bet against them.

Can't really slag the RFU for being optimistic, it is within the realms of reality

RFU rightly should be optimistic about England's chances of progressing, plus it will help to get bums on some very expensive seats for the tournament!

Fanster wrote:Hard to see past England, they probably have the edge over Australia at Twickers, and with Wales injuries they are favourites to miss out.

The winner of this group should make a Semi final and well they can be whoever deals with it on the day, a final is a real possibility for England, and with a home finalist I wouldn't bet against them.

Can't really slag the RFU for being optimistic, it is within the realms of reality

I agree with this. Whoever wins our group will more than likely make the final. But as it is home advantage for England they have to be favourites. England as always have the hoodoo over Australia at the moment, in every sport. I would wager they would be more worried about us than Australia. But it will be the other way around for us, we will worry more about Australia than England.

Well done and well said Ali

The only issue I had with it was that he said that England lack nobility... coming from an AB that's pretty rich. They are the worst losers in the game. They are also well known for the post try mocking of the opposition.

95 - food poisoning
07 - Barnes
12 vs Eng - the flu

Everytime they lose, a whole load of them make up the biggest load of tripe excuses ever... bar the opposition being better on the day.

On here I would say that the kiwi's always take it on the chin and get much kudos for it but they from experience are the exception.

fa, I'm not sure that's fair. My memory of their response to the '12 result was Hansen and McCaw being extremely gracious in defeat and not making any use of the norovirus excuse.

If anything it was the English press making more of it in a "they only won because the ABs were under the weather" way. Which, given subsequent results, is probably fair.

Overall, we know that teams use this kind of attitude to rev themselves up behind closed doors, but it's pretty crass to trot it out publicly - especially given the efforts that Lancaster has made to introduce to England the same kind of humility and pride in the shirt that the All Blacks have. Fortunately, these things have a habit of backfiring, since it effectively writes the opposition's team talk.

Not the sharpest tool in the shed is he, but lets be honest is anyone surprised by these comments?

Anyway, I've heard worse. Can't believe he gets offended by the atmosphere at Twickers. The sound of champagne corks bouncing off range rovers is hardly 'vindictive'..

I know right? Those barbour jackets and the Chelsea dagger song are so in your face...

Breadvan wrote:Anyway, I've heard worse. Can't believe he gets offended by the atmosphere at Twickers. The sound of champagne corks bouncing off range rovers is hardly 'vindictive'..

I know right? Those barbour jackets and the Chelsea dagger song are so in your face...

Maybe he doesn't like the smell of Prawn sandwiches.

To be honest I was never particularly impressed by the NZers since the 2005 Lions tour. Most hostile fans I have met.

I've met Aussies,Irish,Welsh,South Africans,French and Scottish.

The worst were those in 2005 though I went with a NZ fan to the 2012 game when England beat NZ, he was a good sport.

Ali Williams should look closer to home before pointing the finger!

New Zealand rugby player offers his opinion to a newspaper but appears to lack any class? And.....

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Gwlad.

You could turn that argument around. Wales have not won a Rugby World Cup, but have won 3/4 grand slams/6ns titles.

What i am saying is that you don't have to win one with out winning the other.

Never mind that. Can you show me this Scott Quinnell quote you mentioned, please?

NO. It was a long time ago.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Gwlad.

You could turn that argument around. Wales have not won a Rugby World Cup, but have won 3/4 grand slams/6ns titles.

What i am saying is that you don't have to win one with out winning the other.

Never mind that. Can you show me this Scott Quinnell quote you mentioned, please?

NO. It was a long time ago.

I'm going to suggest you're lying/wrong then.

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Gwlad.

You could turn that argument around. Wales have not won a Rugby World Cup, but have won 3/4 grand slams/6ns titles.

What i am saying is that you don't have to win one with out winning the other.

Never mind that. Can you show me this Scott Quinnell quote you mentioned, please?

NO. It was a long time ago.

I'm going to suggest you're lying/wrong then.

You all ways do.

That would be a lie as well, unless you care to provide evidence for that too.

Ali's a bit of a joker. I'm sure he's said it to illicit the wind-up.

Still a fair few of his points ring true.

"I was trying to build their belief that they can go on and win the tournament. Not in an arrogant way" Lancaster said.

In the article I read he didn't mention the Welsh or Irish - so which did you read 7.5?

The same one we all read.

The Welsh hate them and I'm not going to mention the Irish.

mikey_dragon wrote:In the article I read he didn't mention the Welsh or Irish - so which did you read 7.5?

And they say the valleys stereotype is inaccurate

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:The same one we all read.

The Welsh hate them and I'm not going to mention the Irish.

I only had access to the ESPN article and that quote wasn't on there. The Welsh don't hate the English. The Welsh dislike smug England fans who think their pee pot is better than everyone else's.

The only part I can agree with is lacking nobility - in addition to that you have plenty of players at various levels over-celebrating after scoring a try. It's seriously cringeworthy and belongs in football.

Gwlad wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:In the article I read he didn't mention the Welsh or Irish - so which did you read 7.5?

And they say the valleys stereotype is inaccurate

What on earth are you on about?

All fans dislike smug fans, and every country has them.

You're right about the celebrations though, definitely an English problem. Here's an English man with a seriously boorish, football-like celebration.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:All fans dislike smug fans, and every country has them.

You're right about the celebrations though, definitely an English problem. Here's an English man with a seriously boorish, football-like celebration.

Yes true.

I find England players at various levels do it more than others. I can't see the image you've posted whilst on my phone, but I imagine it's North scoring for the lions. Don't tell me you're going to do a beshocked and desperately try to claim other people's players as your own . That thing I said about the pee pot is starting to hit home!

mikey_dragon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:In the article I read he didn't mention the Welsh or Irish - so which did you read 7.5?

And they say the valleys stereotype is inaccurate

What on earth are you on about?

you are the epitome of valley commando

mikey_dragon wrote:In the article I read he didn't mention the Welsh or Irish - so which did you read 7.5?

Front page of the Sunday Times sports supplement.

Context. Scoring a last gasp try to win a game or a try in an important game, even after a great team move, securing a bonus point. I see no problem with a celebration. Its not like rugby players are removing shirts or performing knee slides. The crowd don't offer polite applause when these events happen either..

mikey_dragon wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:All fans dislike smug fans, and every country has them.

You're right about the celebrations though, definitely an English problem. Here's an English man with a seriously boorish, football-like celebration.

Yes true.

I find England players at various levels do it more than others. I can't see the image you've posted whilst on my phone, but I imagine it's North scoring for the lions. Don't tell me you're going to do a beshocked and desperately try to claim other people's players as your own . That thing I said about the pee pot is starting to hit home!

Claim other people's players as their own?

You're the one who thinks Tomas Francis is Welsh. You're the one who thinks that no Welsh player has any connection to England.

You are happy to augment your side with players and coaches with significant English connections but conveniently ignore their heritage.


You shouldn't hate England - your best coach - Shaun Edwards is English, most of your best players have connections with England.

Definitely a bit of generalizing here by Williams.

Josh Lewsey seemed ok for instance, and Phil de Glanville was fairly humble. You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush.

donglewood wrote:Ali's a bit of a joker. I'm sure he's said it to illicit the wind-up.

Still a fair few of his points ring true.

"I was trying to build their belief that they can go on and win the tournament. Not in an arrogant way" Lancaster said.

So what exactly do you expect the head coach of a team in this tournament to tell them? "Lads, we haven't got a hope in hell of winning the thing. The only reason I haven't resigned is that my wife's already spent my win bonus, so if you could go out there and pick up a few four-pointers that'd be handy."

Do you honestly think that Hansen, Cheika, Meyer and Gatland haven't had similar talks with their squads? Or that coaches from the next tier down haven't told their lads they can claim a big scalp?

By that measure, the only nation who can't be accused of arrogance are France, because I expect that Philippe Saint-Andre's team talk went something like this:

"Lads, I am giving you zis talk because it is expected, no? But I do not for one tiny moment believe zat you will pay ze blindest bit of attention. For I know that you are true Frenchmen, except for Benjamin, Rory and Scott, and that ze role of coach to the French rugby team is very much like being en charge of ze weather. You will play as you will play, and I can no more change zat than the EU can change the common agricultural policy. I know that in one game your play will resemble a fine camembert, smooth, creamy and aromatic, but on another you may more resemble ze English Stilton, stinky and likely to crumble at ze slightest touch. Can you win zis tournament? Who can say? For me, it remains only to shrug my Gallic shoulders and let ze results fall how they may. Onwards to... whatever, mes amis!"

ali williams likes to make dramatic statements. while commenting on an england game he admitted he never had any clue why the scrums collapsed in his 100+ AB games.

ive been to all the major stadiums, and twickenham is right up there in quality of venue and atmosphere. maybe a bit corporate yes, but certainly less partisan, offensive and drunk than most of the others ive been to. but they are all good anyway!

and of course everyone wants to beat England at HQ. nothing new there.