Sucker punch

Can someone fill me in what this was all about?

Why did he do it and what was the aftermath?

Is this a famous incident or is this the first time you've seen it like me?

Thoughts welcome!

He's a grade A lunatic mate. He couldn't hack it that he lost and attacked him in this cowardly manner. He also killed Max Kellerman's brother who had helped him back onto his feet. Some people are just c*nts!

James Butler, what a naughty naughty boy.

Might wanna change the title of the thread to "unprovoked cowardly assault"

Thankfully this human piece of crap in locked away now on a 30 year prison sentence

It's a fairly famous incident Adam, although not one the boxing fraternity is proud of. I'm pretty sure it was at a fundraiser for the New York Fire Department after September 11th. Which puts the cowardice into further perspective.

James Butler, not worth a penny.

ShahenshahG wrote:Some people are just c*nts!

Maybe you should read over this.

He was bipolar and wasn't taking his medication probably because he couldn't afford it...

There are mitigating circumstances and words like c**t for me aren't appropriate. ...

The whole Butler episode is very sad for his victim and his family and for Butler himself...

A very disturbed and confused young man..

Yeah second what TRUSS has said.

I remember this episode and it just reinforces the need for stringent checks by boxing officials to make sure people with mental conditions do not fight. This guy needed help but there is no NHS in the states so the money is not there.

BTW Adam come lately this is old news and a part of boxing we (fans) would rather not talk about but I think its something we should at least talk about.

He said he'd been drinking and that shouldn't have done it. His first visit to a mental health clinic was one he attended with his lawyer in tow after the murder.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Yeah second what TRUSS has said.

I remember this episode and it just reinforces the need for stringent checks by boxing officials to make sure people with mental conditions do not fight. This guy needed help but there is no NHS in the states so the money is not there.

BTW Adam come lately this is old news and a part of boxing we (fans) would rather not talk about but I think its something we should at least talk about.

Are you suggesting that I am not a fan as I was not aware of this fight?

And I was fully aware it was old, as although you most probably do believe in the lizard people with backwards ageing, I didnt think that Bruce Buffer had recently regressed to an earlier age.

You've changed your tune 1/2 last time out you was slagging all of us mental health sufferers off saying we needed to get a grip (in fact you got a temp ban for it.)

Only speaking for myself here as other people have different experiences but I know what somethings off with me and i'm 'not quite right' it's my responsibility to check that out. I can (kind of) forgive the sucker punch but if that didn't ring alarm bells in his/or his families head then he needs to take some of the responsibility.
Unfortunately though a lot of the tests are now good unless your honest enough to admit you've got a problem and some people can't take the stigma.

Using 'mental health issues' is a total BS excuse for a simply repulsive human being.

Firstly evidence is pretty thin on the ground in terms of any diagnosis or treatment in advance of this incident, secondly what about shooting Kellerman's brother?? Mental health excuse him of responsibility for that too? Forget to take his pills again....better let him off........


(Derby - not have a go at you mate, comments v specific to this case)

Derby I didn't know you suffered from Mental Health mate. Fair play for admitting it and I hope you keep well mate!

TopHat24/7 wrote:Using 'mental health issues' is a total BS excuse for a simply repulsive human being.

Firstly evidence is pretty thin on the ground in terms of any diagnosis or treatment in advance of this incident, secondly what about shooting Kellerman's brother?? Mental health excuse him of responsibility for that too? Forget to take his pills again....better let him off........


(Derby - not have a go at you mate, comments v specific to this case)

Yep...

ShahenshahG wrote:He said he'd been drinking and that shouldn't have done it. His first visit to a mental health clinic was one he attended with his lawyer in tow after the murder.

Yeah do we have any evidence that this was genuine and not a standard defence?

He was diagnosed as bipolar....

Unfortunately we are living in a society that's very ignorant when it comes to understanding mental health issues and other things like alcoholism and other drug abuse ..

But we also live in one where lawyers will use it as a mitigating factor whether it's true or not.

I don't think mental health can fully exclude someone from their actions.

However in sayin that, if someone is a good decent person, then their health COULD lead them to problems.

In the end of the day there are good people who suffer mental health and there are bad people who suffer.

I myself have anxiety/deppression problems. I don't visit Doctors or use medication. I have been like this since I was a kid. I have learned to deal with it and try to relax and have fun as much as I can.

I am fortunate to be able to control it, many can't. Mental health definitely effects people differently.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He was diagnosed as bipolar....

Unfortunately we are living in a society that's very ignorant when it comes to understanding mental health issues and other things like alcoholism and other drug abuse ..

Doesn't seem to stop you giving out about Ronnie O'Sullivan saying he ruins the sport that's been so good to him despite having confirmed mental health issues?

What are you talking about....Obsessed

[quote="AdamT"]I don't think mental health can fully exclude someone from their actions.

However in sayin that, if someone is a good decent person, then their health COULD lead them to problems.

In the end of the day there are good people who suffer mental health and there are bad people who suffer.

I myself have anxiety/deppression problems. I don't visit Doctors or use medication. I have been like this since I was a kid. I have learned to deal with it and try to relax and have fun as much as I can.

I am fortunate to be able to control it, many can't. Mental health definitely effects people differently.[/quote

True. Butler is the latter.

Exactly...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What are you talking about....Obsessed

TRUSSMAN66

I'm not sure how anyone can admire a petulant, spoilt guy that has constantly derided the game that has made him a multi-millionnaire but fairplay If you do!!!

^^^^^^
This

To be fair to Truss, Ronnie might have health problems, but he is still a spoilt tw.t!

Amazing player though.

How many times are you going to post this ???

O'Sullivan knows what he's saying and he's always slagging off the sport that's fed him..

Geez get obsessed with someone else..

AdamT wrote:To be fair to Truss, Ronnie might have health problems, but he is still a spoilt tw.t!

Amazing player though.

On what grounds is he "a spoilt tw.t"?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He was diagnosed as bipolar....

Unfortunately we are living in a society that's very ignorant when it comes to understanding mental health issues and other things like alcoholism and other drug abuse ..

When??

You've excused him because he wasn't taking his meds (no excuse) but I've not seen anything to suggest he was disgnosed any time before facing a jury.

It's all a load of BS either way. Pre-diagnosed and gets a let off for the conscious decision not to take his meds. Post-diagnosed and he gets a let off because he had an undiagnosed condition.

The actual victims get short changed when the guilty party gets a by...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How many times are you going to post this ???

O'Sullivan knows what he's saying and he's always slagging off the sport that's fed him..

Geez get obsessed with someone else..

Obsession haha. It's just when you contradict yourself I like to point it out. Pretty much every day on this forum someone gives an example of you tripping yourself up. You then say they're obsessed or how you're above them and won't deal with them. Embarrassing.

If you say so....

I don't know or care If you trip yourself up...

Pedro147 wrote:

AdamT wrote:To be fair to Truss, Ronnie might have health problems, but he is still a spoilt tw.t!

Amazing player though.

On what grounds is he "a spoilt tw.t"?

I have heard he was a spoilt tw*t as a teenager but obviously that may have changed

When they were teens on the youth circuit Ronnie had lots of money as his mother was of course a gangsters moll

The circuit was full of working class boys who would play for a few quid but Ronnie was always apparently challenging people to play for hundreds of pounds as mocking them if they wouldn't take the challenge

The person who told me this is a very reliable source and was hoping to play as a pro himself but never made it. Like I say though he may have changed

Spoilt brat

He has the attitude of a spoiled boy. Maybe not as much recently, but definitely in his early days.

Steffan wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:

AdamT wrote:To be fair to Truss, Ronnie might have health problems, but he is still a spoilt tw.t!

Amazing player though.

On what grounds is he "a spoilt tw.t"?

I have heard he was a spoilt tw*t as a teenager but obviously that may have changed

When they were teems on the youth circuit Ronnie had lots of money as his mother was of course a gangsters moll

The circuit was full of working class boys who would play for a few quid but Ronnie was always apparently challenging people to play for hundreds of pounds as mocking them if they wouldn't take the challenge

The person who told me this is a very reliable source and was hoping to play as a pro himself but never made it. Like I say though he may have changed

His family had money and his snooker was paid for. Not exactly spoilt. His dad would clear the bill at the end of each month with the snooker hall. Perhaps they had more than others.

And the people generally challenged for money were adults not children. The norm in a snooker hall with club standard players (and promising youngsters).

Spoilt brat

AdamT wrote:He has the attitude of a spoiled boy. Maybe not as much recently, but definitely in his early days.

Or someone with mental health issues? The same mental health issues that have only in the last few years been handled adequately since his work with Steve Peters?

He's been slagging snooker off for years..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He's been slagging snooker off for years..

And rightfully so. Was down to 6 ranking events per year before Barry Hearn took over and they barely found a sponsorship for the World Championships a few years ago. Players outside top 16 could barely make a living. Has changed for the better and players now have a choice of tournaments that suit their schedules and there's enough choice to ensure you stay match sharp while making a living.

Just because someone speaks out against something they love doesn't mean they're wrong.

Am I on the snooker forum??

Let's move on before your write another "Ban Trussy now" thread

Dipper summed it up best...

AdamT wrote:Am I on the snooker forum??

No one is on the snooker forum...Why I wrote the article..

No one used to be on the bodybuilding forum.....

I quite like snooker. Hard game, very enjoyable.

I prefer pool.....I can look good playing that

I prefer snooker. Obviously I am better at pool.

Hitting a cracking shot in snooker is a good feeling.

Pedro147 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How many times are you going to post this ???

O'Sullivan knows what he's saying and he's always slagging off the sport that's fed him..

Geez get obsessed with someone else..

Obsession haha. It's just when you contradict yourself I like to point it out. Pretty much every day on this forum someone gives an example of you tripping yourself up. You then say they're obsessed or how you're above them and won't deal with them. Embarrassing.

Basically Truss can't debate. It's a failing of the Yank school system I guess, so he just tries to shout people down no matter how stupid or ridiculously hypocritical it makes him look, unilateral action and all that....

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He was diagnosed as bipolar....

Unfortunately we are living in a society that's very ignorant when it comes to understanding mental health issues and other things like alcoholism and other drug abuse ..

When??

I'll answer it myself then.

Butler didn't seek diagnosis or treatment for ALLEGED bipolar disorder until 20 October 2004. 3 years after the sucker punch and, more importantly, only under the guidance of his lawyer having murdered Sam Kellerman 8 days earlier and been made a (the only, in fact) suspect. This was his murder defence.

Funny how a few facts can make you look a complete and utter f*cking idiot, isn't it??

Dipper Brown wrote:It's a fairly famous incident Adam, although not one the boxing fraternity is proud of. I'm pretty sure it was at a fundraiser for the New York Fire Department after September 11th. Which puts the cowardice into further perspective.

James Butler, not worth a penny.

It was pretty awful timing...

Great cause BTW. ..NYFD are the great unsung heroes of 9/11..

Tophat I have missed your arguments with Truss and even myself.

I also have missed the TopHat v Trusscargo debates

Question is are you Team Toppy or Team Trussy if you had to make a choice???

Don't know. I enjoy both to be honest.