London Welsh in the Pro12 ? Talks have began.

No, No, No. Why should this lot be allowed in the Pro12 ? Surely RGC1404 should be the next team in the Pro12. London Welsh are not even Welsh, they're English with a Welsh name, anyway here we are:-

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/23951/exclusive-london-welsh-have-initiated-discussions-about-switching-to-pro12/

It's just more nonsense. Won't happen.

Agree on RGC, but it's too soon. The other Regions can't afford a fifth Region to eat into their funds just now. Maybe one for the future though.

Its not exactly great journalism, its basically one man saying this. Nothing confirmed from any other party

What does a LW team offer to anyone? They don't have a big fan base, they operate in a crowded market in London limiting potential growth, they would fall under the RFU so the WRU would have no sway with them regards Dual Contracts and available players for internationals and what impact would that have on European qualification?

More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So could Jersey or Cornish Pirates potentially join a Celtic league. Hell even teams from Brittany in France (Plouzané). We're all Celts, it's pointless though...

If were going to 14 teams then add RGC1404 and Scottish Borders.

RGC aren't ready to step up though. They aren't even romping the poxy championship still.

Anyone could join the Pro12 (if all unions involved agree). If fact, do you want Bath and Saracens? They're better teams than LW.

As for the story being made up, well extrapolated would probably be better term. It smells like this is a warning to the RFU that if the premiership is ring fenced then teams will look elsewhere for the top level experience.

Munchkin wrote:It's just more nonsense. Won't happen.

Agree on RGC, but it's too soon. The other Regions can't afford a fifth Region to eat into their funds just now. Maybe one for the future though.

I think you mean it won't happen because the WRU don't have additional funds just now.

gcBlues wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's just more nonsense. Won't happen.

Agree on RGC, but it's too soon. The other Regions can't afford a fifth Region to eat into their funds just now. Maybe one for the future though.

I think you mean it won't happen because the WRU don't have additional funds just now.

With the stadium debt looking like being gone, then we shall have to wait and see with that one.

LordDowlais wrote: Surely RGC1404 should be the next team in the Pro12. /

Can you explain why an amateur development team should be next to join the league?

justified sinner wrote:More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So the quote by the LW chairman is just a lie made up by the paper?

"We have initiated discussions with the RFU and it would be accurate to say those discussions are ongoing"

Chunky Norwich wrote:

justified sinner wrote:More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So the quote by the LW chairman is just a lie made up by the paper?

"We have initiated discussions with the RFU and it would be accurate to say those discussions are ongoing"

We have initiated discussions? That could go as follows

LW: Can we join the Pro12 pretty please?

RFU: No!

LW: Pretty pretty please?

...awaiting response

The paper also say that 'Talks with Pro12 officials have taken place' yet offer no supporting quote

Journalistic standards usually require confirmation from a second party yet theres no mention of even attempting to speak to the RFU or Pro12

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

justified sinner wrote:More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So the quote by the LW chairman is just a lie made up by the paper?

"We have initiated discussions with the RFU and it would be accurate to say those discussions are ongoing"

We have initiated discussions? That could go as follows

LW: Can we join the Pro12 pretty please?

RFU: No!

LW: Pretty pretty please?

...awaiting response

The paper also say that 'Talks with Pro12 officials have taken place' yet offer no supporting quote

Journalistic standards usually require confirmation from a second party yet theres no mention of even attempting to speak to the RFU or Pro12

So which bit is "made up"?

Posters on here are very quick to offer the "Show me the evidence" strawman. So what evidence is there, that this article or anything in it is made up?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

justified sinner wrote:More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So the quote by the LW chairman is just a lie made up by the paper?

"We have initiated discussions with the RFU and it would be accurate to say those discussions are ongoing"

We have initiated discussions? That could go as follows

LW: Can we join the Pro12 pretty please?

RFU: No!

LW: Pretty pretty please?

...awaiting response

The paper also say that 'Talks with Pro12 officials have taken place' yet offer no supporting quote

Journalistic standards usually require confirmation from a second party yet theres no mention of even attempting to speak to the RFU or Pro12

So which bit is "made up"?

Posters on here are very quick to offer the "Show me the evidence" strawman. So what evidence is there, that this article or anything in it is made up?

Well the talks with Pro12 officials would seem made up since they didn't bother offering anything to back it up or seeking confirmation from the Pro12.

marty2086 wrote:

Well the talks with Pro12 officials would seem made up since they didn't bother offering anything to back it up or seeking confirmation from the Pro12.

So you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim of "they made it up".

Downright bizarre behaviour. So odd.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Well the talks with Pro12 officials would seem made up since they didn't bother offering anything to back it up or seeking confirmation from the Pro12.

So you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim of "they made it up".

Downright bizarre behaviour. So odd.

Id didn't claim it was made up

But I do think its one mans pipedream

And a lack of supporting evidence for their claim is evidence that they don't have anything backing it up or is that too complex for you?

gcBlues wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's just more nonsense. Won't happen.

Agree on RGC, but it's too soon. The other Regions can't afford a fifth Region to eat into their funds just now. Maybe one for the future though.

I think you mean it won't happen because the WRU don't have additional funds just now.

I think that's another way of looking at it which is equally valid. The WRU can't afford to give equal shares to 5 Regions right now, and the four existing wouldn't want to share the existing pot with a fifth Region. Also, if more money was available, I think the four Regions would want an increase in the share before any fifth Region is considered. The Regions might not have a say in that, but it's something that I believe they would argue for.

As someone else has mentioned, RGC isn't ready for the step up just yet even if it could be afforded. If they were to come in, it would be as a development side. I think it might be something for the future, and I think it would be good for welsh rugby if it were to happen.

As for LW? It's not going to happen. The Pro12 doesn't want it. The RFU doesn't want it. I doubt the WRU wants it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

justified sinner wrote:More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So the quote by the LW chairman is just a lie made up by the paper?

"We have initiated discussions with the RFU and it would be accurate to say those discussions are ongoing"

Only if you view spin as a lie.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

justified sinner wrote:More Rugby Paper made up stories.

So the quote by the LW chairman is just a lie made up by the paper?

"We have initiated discussions with the RFU and it would be accurate to say those discussions are ongoing"

We have initiated discussions? That could go as follows

LW: Can we join the Pro12 pretty please?

RFU: No!

LW: Pretty pretty please?

...awaiting response

The paper also say that 'Talks with Pro12 officials have taken place' yet offer no supporting quote

Journalistic standards usually require confirmation from a second party yet theres no mention of even attempting to speak to the RFU or Pro12

So which bit is "made up"?

Posters on here are very quick to offer the "Show me the evidence" strawman. So what evidence is there, that this article or anything in it is made up?

The Pro12 have already come out and stated that they didn't have talks with LW, or anyone else about entering Pro12. It's not going to happen. So, yes it's made up.

None of what is reported in that article is made up.

Chunky Norwich wrote:None of what is reported in that article is made up.

There has been nothing of substance reported in the article. The claim that LW has talked to Pro12 is made up, unless LW have just recently talked to Pro12. I don't believe they have. I believe it's an old claim (from last season), and one that has been refuted by Pro12.

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:None of what is reported in that article is made up.

There has been nothing of substance reported in the article. The claim that LW has talked to Pro12 is made up, unless LW have just recently talked to Pro12. I don't believe they have. I believe it's an old claim (from last season), and one that has been refuted by Pro12.

You have absolutely no evdience that it is made up.

And none of what is reported is confirmed beyond Phillips who keeps saying these things to different news outlets hoping to gain some traction

As Munchkin says the Pro12 have said they have held no talks, either formal or informal yet you say nothings made up?

marty2086 wrote:And none of what is reported is confirmed beyond Phillips who keeps saying these things to different news outlets hoping to gain some traction

Absolutely. That doesn't mean it's made up.

As Munchkin says the Pro12 have said they have held no talks, either formal or informal yet you say nothings made up?

When was that?

When was this article published?

You're simply guessing that there has been absolutely ZERO dialogue between Bleddyn Phillips and Pro12 between May 2015 and October 2015.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:None of what is reported in that article is made up.

There has been nothing of substance reported in the article. The claim that LW has talked to Pro12 is made up, unless LW have just recently talked to Pro12. I don't believe they have. I believe it's an old claim (from last season), and one that has been refuted by Pro12.

You have absolutely no evdience that it is made up.

If the claim that LW have talked to Pro12 is the same claim from last season, then yes, it's made up, and yes, there is evidence that it's made up. Google it, or search these forums. It has already been discussed on here.

The one lacking in evidence is the author of that article. There is zero evidence to back up the claims. It is hogwash. The same hogwash we were treated to last season.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:And none of what is reported is confirmed beyond Phillips who keeps saying these things to different news outlets hoping to gain some traction

Absolutely. That doesn't mean it's made up.

As Munchkin says the Pro12 have said they have held no talks, either formal or informal yet you say nothings made up?

When was that?

When was this article published?

You're simply guessing that there has been absolutely ZERO dialogue between Bleddyn Phillips and Pro12 between May 2015 and October 2015.

You were here when the article was published. Look it up.

So where's your proof that there has been NO contact between London Welsh / RFU and the Pro12 in the last 3/4 months?

You must have it, as you've just claimed the reports in the article are made up.

Chunky Norwich wrote:So where's your proof that there has been NO contact between Londown Welsh / RFU and the Pro12 in the last 6 months?

You must have it, as you've just claimed the reports in the article is made up.

If it's the same claim as last seasons, then yes it's made up. You're clutching at straws, Chunky. Not going to happen.

'And there has been no official or unofficial contact with London Scottish, London Welsh, London Irish or anybody else.'

That's a quote from 5 months ago that good enough?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:So where's your proof that there has been NO contact between Londown Welsh / RFU and the Pro12 in the last 6 months?

You must have it, as you've just claimed the reports in the article is made up.

If it's the same claim as last seasons, then yes it's made up. You're clutching at straws, Chunky. Not going to happen.

The suggestions in the past have been that LW would be a fifth region but that's almost impossible, they can't play in England and be under the WRU umbrella as its the RFUs turf and why should the RFU care too much about them if they aren't playing in their league?

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:So where's your proof that there has been NO contact between Londown Welsh / RFU and the Pro12 in the last 6 months?

You must have it, as you've just claimed the reports in the article is made up.

If it's the same claim as last seasons, then yes it's made up. You're clutching at straws, Chunky. Not going to happen.

It's a new article. There have been new discussions with LWelsh and the RFU as Phillips says. Yet you're using something that happenned in May to back up your argument.

If it is amde up, then show us the proof.

marty2086 wrote:

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Eh? Which post of mine has told you that Marty?

True, Marty. LW can't and won't be the fifth Region. It makes no sense. RGC would be closest to the claim, and although I think it would be great if they can make it, it's some way off before they are ready for the step up.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Eh? Which post of mine has told you that Marty?

'So you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim of "they made it up".

Downright bizarre behaviour. So odd.'

'None of what is reported in that article is made up.'

This quote in particular, we have stated the article offers no proof they talked with the Pro12, not even from Phillips yet you back their stance and challenge ours? That's bizarre

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:So where's your proof that there has been NO contact between Londown Welsh / RFU and the Pro12 in the last 6 months?

You must have it, as you've just claimed the reports in the article is made up.

If it's the same claim as last seasons, then yes it's made up. You're clutching at straws, Chunky. Not going to happen.

It's a new article. There have been new discussions with LWelsh and the RFU as Phillips says. Yet you're using something that happenned in May to back up your argument.

If it is amde up, then show us the proof.

Hold on a minute. First, it's only a new article in that it is a recently published article, but you don't know if it's just a rehash of an old article, which I strongly suspect it is.

Second, you asked for evidence from the last 6 months. Marty has just posted evidence from the last 5 months. Moving goalposts?

It's very simple:

Since the last article in May,

1) Phillips claims he has been in talks with the RFU.
2)The author claims there have been talks with the Pro 12 and London Welsh.

If one or more of these is "made up", can you show me / tell me why or how it is made up.

Thanks in advance.

marty2086 wrote:'And there has been no official or unofficial contact with London Scottish, London Welsh, London Irish or anybody else.'

That's a quote from 5 months ago that good enough?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Not really. 5 Months ago Japan had not ever played South Africa, it doesn't mean that you would be right to say that Japan have never played South Africa now. A lot of things can happen in five months.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:'And there has been no official or unofficial contact with London Scottish, London Welsh, London Irish or anybody else.'

That's a quote from 5 months ago that good enough?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Not really.  5 Months ago Japan had not ever played South Africa, it doesn't mean that you would be right to say that Japan have never played South Africa now.  A lot of things can happen in five months.

Considering he asked for something to prove they haven't talked within the last 6 months, he then asked for something within the last 3/4 months if I posted something from last week he probably would have asked for something for this week

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It's very simple:

Since the last article in May,

1) Phillips claims he has been in talks with the RFU.
2)The author claims there have been talks with the Pro 12 and London Welsh.

If one or more of these is "made up", can you show me / tell me why or how it is made up.

Thanks in advance.

You did read the evidence Marty provided? Didn't you? That's all the evidence that's out there, Chunky, and that's all that's needed. New article publishing old claims.

Look at it this way: There is evidence that those claims are false. there is no evidence that those same claims, published in a recent article, are true.

Think about it.....

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It's very simple:

Since the last article in May,

1) Phillips claims he has been in talks with the RFU.
2)The author claims there have been talks with the Pro 12 and London Welsh.

If one or more of these is "made up", can you show me / tell me why or how it is made up.

Thanks in advance.

Phillips claims he has initiated talks, like I said previously that could mean him asking and being rejected then asking again

If the author was told by Phillips he has spoken to the Pro12 why not quote him or if Phillips doesn't want to be quoted or even someone within the Pro12 has told him why not say sources told them?

Also Phillips has repeatedly said over the last few years he has spoken to the Pro12 and only 5 months ago they said its a lie, so now all of a sudden they have spoken to him? The man lacks credibility, you ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Munchkin wrote:

You did read the evidence Marty provided? Didn't you? That's all the evidence that's out there, Chunky, and that's all that's needed. New article publishing old claims.

Look at it this way: There is evidence that those claims are false. there is no evidence that those same claims, published in a recent article, are true.

Think about it.....

Complete and utter guesswork.

marty2086 wrote:

Phillips claims he has initiated talks, like I said previously that could mean him asking and being rejected then asking again

Which would mean that the article is 100% correct.

f the author was told by Phillips he has spoken to the Pro12 why not quote him or if Phillips doesn't want to be quoted or even someone within the Pro12 has told him why not say sources told them?

Also Phillips has repeatedly said over the last few years he has spoken to the Pro12 and only 5 months ago they said its a lie, so now all of a sudden they have spoken to him? The man lacks credibility, you ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Guesswork. You're basing your thought process on soemthing that happenend last season, when you don't know all the facts.

I've been told numerous times on here that this shouldn't form the basis of opinion, and that reading between the lines / posting without proof should not form the basis of a debate. Yet when the shoe's on the other foot - it seems to be concrete evidence.

Laughable.

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:'And there has been no official or unofficial contact with London Scottish, London Welsh, London Irish or anybody else.'

That's a quote from 5 months ago that good enough?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Not really.  5 Months ago Japan had not ever played South Africa, it doesn't mean that you would be right to say that Japan have never played South Africa now.  A lot of things can happen in five months.

Considering he asked for something to prove they haven't talked within the last 6 months, he then asked for something within the last 3/4 months if I posted something from last week he probably would have asked for something for this week

To be fair your the one that has come out and said the article is made up, and can not prove it with any links.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:'And there has been no official or unofficial contact with London Scottish, London Welsh, London Irish or anybody else.'

That's a quote from 5 months ago that good enough?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Not really.  5 Months ago Japan had not ever played South Africa, it doesn't mean that you would be right to say that Japan have never played South Africa now.  A lot of things can happen in five months.

Considering he asked for something to prove they haven't talked within the last 6 months, he then asked for something within the last 3/4 months if I posted something from last week he probably would have asked for something for this week

To be fair your the one that has come out and said the article is made up, and can not prove it with any links.

I said

'Its not exactly great journalism, its basically one man saying this. Nothing confirmed from any other party'

So maybe you would like to tell me where I said it was made up

Ha, and there we go, I have been asked numerous times on here to prove this, prove that, give me a link. Now that the people who always ask for this evidence are being asked, getting a link or showing proof is not really needed anymore.

More double standards from some of our Irish members.

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Eh? Which post of mine has told you that Marty?

'So you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim of "they made it up".

Downright bizarre behaviour. So odd.'

'None of what is reported in that article is made up.'

This quote in particular, we have stated the article offers no proof they talked with the Pro12, not even from Phillips yet you back their stance and challenge ours? That's bizarre

I haven't backed anybody's stance. I'm just saying that you can't claim that any sentence in that article is "made up" because you have no idea if it is or not.

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:'And there has been no official or unofficial contact with London Scottish, London Welsh, London Irish or anybody else.'

That's a quote from 5 months ago that good enough?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/

Your forgetting its not the first time Phillips has claimed he has spoken to the Pro12

But you keep telling yourself its us

Not really.  5 Months ago Japan had not ever played South Africa, it doesn't mean that you would be right to say that Japan have never played South Africa now.  A lot of things can happen in five months.

Considering he asked for something to prove they haven't talked within the last 6 months, he then asked for something within the last 3/4 months if I posted something from last week he probably would have asked for something for this week

To be fair your the one that has come out and said the article is made up, and can not prove it with any links.

I said

'Its not exactly great journalism, its basically one man saying this. Nothing confirmed from any other party'

So maybe you would like to tell me where I said it was made up

Ah...that would be Justified Sinner but all of you anti-anti-pro-12 lot are all the same to me

marty2086 wrote:

So maybe you would like to tell me where I said it was made up

Maybe this bit?

marty2086 wrote:

Well the talks with Pro12 officials would seem made up.

I expect you'll wriggle again though.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Phillips claims he has initiated talks, like I said previously that could mean him asking and being rejected then asking again

Which would mean that the article is 100% correct.

f the author was told by Phillips he has spoken to the Pro12 why not quote him or if Phillips doesn't want to be quoted or even someone within the Pro12 has told him why not say sources told them?

Also Phillips has repeatedly said over the last few years he has spoken to the Pro12 and only 5 months ago they said its a lie, so now all of a sudden they have spoken to him? The man lacks credibility, you ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Guesswork. You're basing your thought process on soemthing that happenend last season, when you don't know all the facts.

I've been told numerous times on here that this shouldn't form the basis of opinion, and that reading between the lines / posting without proof should not form the basis of a debate. Yet when the shoe's on the other foot - it seems to be concrete evidence.

Laughable.

No it doesn't mean its 100% correct as he has said nothing about speaking to the Pro12, the reporter has said that they have spoken to them without anything said by Phillips

Its not guesswork, its opinion as I don't see how he can be believed when he has lied in the past. Do you think he is credible given his history of saying one thing only to have the other party say it never happened?

If he spoke to either party why isn't there a big shiny quote saying so?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

So maybe you would like to tell me where I said it was made up

Maybe this bit?

marty2086 wrote:

Well the talks with Pro12 officials would seem made up.

I expect you'll wriggle again though.

Well the talks with Pro12 officials would seem made up since they didn't bother offering anything to back it up or seeking confirmation from the Pro12.'

If your going to quote me do use the full quote