QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October

First topic message reminder :

   
IRELAND v ARGENTINA

18 October 2015
KO: 13:00 BST (UTC+01)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Ref: Jerome Garcès (France)
ARs: Romain Poite (France)and Chris Pollock (NZ)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

15 Played 15
10 Won 5
0 Drawn 0
5 Lost 15
331 Points 283

B. Recent Form

14 June 2014
Estadio Monumental José Fierro, Tucumán
17 – 23 to Ireland

7 June 2014
Estadio Centenario, Resistencia
17 – 29 to Ireland

24 November 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 24 to Ireland

28 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
29 – 9 to Ireland

22 November 2008
Croke Park, Dublin
17 – 3 to Ireland

30 September 2007
Parc des Princes, Paris, France
30 – 15 to Argentina

2 June 2007
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
16 – 0 to Argentina

C. TEAMS:

IRELAND


15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;
16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)

ARGENTINA


15. Joaquin Tuculet
14. Santiago Cordero
13. Matías Moroni
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Martín Landajo
1. Marcos Ayerza
2. Agustín Creevy (c)
3. Ramiro Herrera
4. Guido Petti
5. Tomás Lavanini
6. Pablo Matera
7. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
8. Leonardo Senatore

Replacements:
16. Julián Montoya
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Juan Pablo Orlandi
19. Matías Alemanno
20. Facundo Isa
21. Tomás Cubelli
22. Jerónimo De La Fuente
23. Lucas González Amorosino

SecretFly wrote:I only pay in here to hear you analyse Payne.  And not a word about him???  I personally thought he had a stinker of a game and it's as if he wasn't even there.  

Aah now, with Earls playing there is loads to discuss

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I think Ireland are clear favourites for this one.

Really? Clear favourites?

I’m not sure how Ireland could be clear favourites for this one. Argentina have played some of the best rugby in this tournament.

Some of the most attractive rugby in this tournament....

Powerful set piece, combative backrow, scintillating backs, great strike runners and fantastic support play.

Like I said some of the best rugby in this tournament.

Best and Attractive are interchangeable words in this particular case.

I can't call this one TBH. A full strength Ireland would probably be a step too far for the Pumas. However missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and SOB I reckon Argentina will bring a lot more attacking flair than France could muster.

Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

France couldn't muster their flair because their hard hitting pre-flair players were hard hit out of the game...by the Irish stand-ins that came in when the French thought they'd hard-hit us sufficiently out of the game to defeat.  They promised to pressure Sexton.  They did their job and the job only unleashed a younger more mobile side to make them eat their words of the preceding week.

I still ask the question:  Had France made it through and got Argentina, would people give them a chance of beating the flowing, combative and scintillating Argentina?

We'll see how France do against New Zealand now and how much profit their big men get in that game.  We'll also see if guile again outdoes 'best' rugby in the Ireland/Argentina clash.  Argentina have the ability to win for sure, as do we.  These quarters are all hard to call.  I even think Scotland will have a real good wallop at Australia.

This is going to be one hell of a game as Argentina has impressed me no end and should be 100% fresh for this one unlike Ireland.

For what it's worth i think Argentina are a better team than France so should be even more difficult than this weekend if you take into account injuries and bans.

SecretFly wrote:France couldn't muster their flair because their hard hitting pre-flair players were hard hit out of the game...by the Irish stand-ins that came in when the French thought they'd hard-hit us sufficiently out of the game to defeat.  They promised to pressure Sexton.  They did their job and the job only unleashed a younger more mobile side to make them eat their words of the preceding week.

I still ask the question:  Had France made it through and got Argentina, would people give them a chance of beating the flowing, combative and scintillating Argentina?

We'll see how France do against New Zealand now and how much profit their big men get in that game.  We'll also see if guile again outdoes 'best' rugby in the Ireland/Argentina clash.  Argentina have the ability to win for sure, as do we.  These quarters are all hard to call.  I even think Scotland will have a real good wallop at Australia.

HaHa! I'm sure they will, but if that English defence let the Ozzies through to score tries I'll bet my house Scotland will leak tries too.

As for France I think Argentina would have beaten them too.

Argentina have looked good apart from the 40 mins NZ decided to play and made them look ordinary. Not saying they are a bad team but its them who need to be worried.

Fly, you topped your group. You've just had a cracking win over France. Why does it (seemingly) bother you so much that other posters think Argentina are the better side?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

You mean there are two citable incidents?

I can't see Ireland backing up that performance with another win like that.

I hope I'm proved wrong and you guys make the Semi's but I fancy the Argies for this one.

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

You mean there are two citable incidents?

You've lost me. Pape was holding him back sure, an incident worthy of being cited for perhaps? A retrospective yellow for Pape at worst I would think.

Sean O'Brien then proceeded to throw a deliberate  punch at another player, anything other than a multiple match ban for SOB will turn these boards into uproar.

I remember the clamor when Pape was banned for kneeing Heaslip in the back. Both incidents are as bad as each other. Pape deserved a longer ban than he got for that and SOB deserves a lengthy ban for his actions too.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

And Pocock gets off with a warning for kneeing a player

It wasn't that much of a punch. If it had been a blow to the head then maybe deserves more, but not for what it was. Player went down winded. Not mortally wounded.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

You mean there are two citable incidents?

You've lost me. Pape was holding him back sure, an incident worthy of being cited for perhaps? A retrospective yellow for Pape at worst I would think.

Sean O'Brien then proceeded to throw a deliberate  punch at another player, anything other than a multiple match ban for SOB will turn these boards into uproar.

I remember the clamor when Pape was banned for kneeing Heaslip in the back. Both incidents are as bad as each other. Pape deserved a longer ban than he got for that and SOB deserves a lengthy ban for his actions too.

A yellow for holding onto someones shirt at a ruck? What do you want rugby to turn into...... 7s???

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

And Pocock gets off with a warning for kneeing a player

It wasn't that much of a punch. If it had been a blow to the head then maybe deserves more, but not for what it was. Player went down winded. Not mortally wounded.

Tell me about it, you think I want to see his name anywhere near the team sheet for this weekend?

All the while an Australian citing commissioner has cited Ross Ford and Johnny Gray for us...

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/111671

anyway, I digress.

I can't call between the Pumas and Ireland but SOB should be banned for that punch.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Fly, you topped your group. You've just had a cracking win over France. Why does it (seemingly) bother you so much that other posters think Argentina are the better side?

It doesn't bother me, Luckless  A lot of the same posters felt France were the better side. And still think so (reading comments in newspaper articles)  We might meet again

It doesn't bother me, it goes with the territory.  It means people are on edge about you (your team) and you're un edge about yourself.  If you're on-edge at this point then you're in a good place.
It fascinates me though that some think it so unsporting/shocking of Irish fans to think of themselves as either favourites or even contenders  Such un-Irish thoughts, most unbecoming.

Well Ireland should be favourites - they topped their group, Argentina were runners-up in theirs. It's saying they're clear favourites that surprises me.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

And Hogg got nothing for taking a swandive fall He was back the following week helping his mates through to the play-offs.........

Hogg didn't break any rules. It's unsportsmanlike and I don't like it but no rule was broken.

Risca Rev wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:does anyone when it happened, I recorded the game so can have a squint

https://twitter.com/gavinc42/status/653584263607123969

The Gray/Ford citing incident has made it on to the interweb. Looks like along with SOB their tournaments could/should be over.

SecretFly wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

And Hogg got nothing for taking a swandive fall  He was back the following week helping his mates through to the play-offs.........

Is there a rule against diving? Serious question

Perhaps something in there for sportsmanship similar to swearing, call the ref a cheat etc?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

And Pocock gets off with a warning for kneeing a player

It wasn't that much of a punch. If it had been a blow to the head then maybe deserves more, but not for what it was. Player went down winded. Not mortally wounded.

Tell me about it, you think I want to see his name anywhere near the team sheet for this weekend?

All the while an Australian citing commissioner has cited Ross Ford and Johnny Gray for us...

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/111671

anyway, I digress.

I can't call between the Pumas and Ireland but SOB should be banned for that punch.

Yep, I read about them being cited. We will see how that goes.

SOB should be, I don't question that. He was stupid in reacting the way he did, and I expect a weeks ban, but being selfish, I hope he gets off. If we can get past Argentina, and if he only gets a weeks ban, then all is good on that front. He gets a weeks rest.

did anyone hear what Pape did to get the punch. some rumours going around that it wasnt holding SOB back?
Any merit in it?

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:did anyone hear what Pape did to get the punch. some rumours going around that it wasnt holding SOB back?
Any merit in it?

Well the rumours are that Pape took a bit of a shine to SOB, and was a little inappropriate. His arm was around that area, but equally so if he was puling on his shirt. Strange reaction from SOB for a bit of shirt pulling, but we may never know the truth of it, unless there are other camera angles.

fa0019 wrote:

Is there a rule against diving? Serious question

Perhaps something in there for sportsmanship similar to swearing, call the ref a cheat etc?

Hmm...well lets say this, I think by Owen's words, the warning was that if Hogg tried it again he'd be off. A threat is no use without sanction.

I'd personally make Blatant diving a red card offence. There will be a myriad of too-close-to-calls but a blatant one should be an end-of-gamer. Stamp it out before it becomes cultural.

Punches should be allowed under Marquis of Queensbury rules

Munchkin wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:did anyone hear what Pape did to get the punch. some rumours going around that it wasnt holding SOB back?
Any merit in it?

Well the rumours are that Pape took a bit of a shine to SOB, and was a little inappropriate. His arm was around that area, but equally so if he was puling on his shirt. Strange reaction from SOB for a bit of shirt pulling, but we may never know the truth of it, unless there are other camera angles.

If the rumours are true then does OBrien, Pape or indeed we want to see them???

Not me....

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

He hooked another player in the chest...

Tuilagi was banned for 5 weeks for carrying the ball into contact...

And Hogg got nothing for taking a swandive fall  He was back the following week helping his mates through to the play-offs.........

Is there a rule against diving? Serious question

Perhaps something in there for sportsmanship similar to swearing, call the ref a cheat etc?

Pretty sure that World Rugby had threatened to take action against divers in this tournament, and threatened yellow cards. So I would think there is a law that can cover diving. Rightly so.

Made me think of this:



Didn't get any sanction at the time, and rightly so cheating got the treatment it deserved.

SecretFly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:did anyone hear what Pape did to get the punch. some rumours going around that it wasnt holding SOB back?
Any merit in it?

Well the rumours are that Pape took a bit of a shine to SOB, and was a little inappropriate. His arm was around that area, but equally so if he was puling on his shirt. Strange reaction from SOB for a bit of shirt pulling, but we may never know the truth of it, unless there are other camera angles.

If the rumours are true then does OBrien, Pape or indeed we want to see them???

Not me....

No, we will leave that to the citing panel. The joy

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Is there a rule against diving? Serious question

Perhaps something in there for sportsmanship similar to swearing, call the ref a cheat etc?

Hmm...well lets say this, I think by Owen's words, the warning was that if Hogg tried it again he'd be off.  A threat is no use without sanction.

I'd personally make Blatant diving a red card offence.  There will be a myriad of too-close-to-calls but a blatant one should be an end-of-gamer.  Stamp it out before it becomes cultural.  

Punches should be allowed under Marquis of Queensbury rules

Certainly think any dive should be dealt with in the same manner of the opposite offence (had ref bought it)... i.e. pretending to get punched ala Robbie Savage. The puncher would be given a red, diver gets a red. Late tackle resulting in a simple pen only... just a pen the other way around.

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

Lower end is 2 weeks so with good behaviour its possible that he only misses Argentina. However it was idiotic enough to deserve to miss the rest of the tournament.

Argentina are capable of beating us. They are a good well rounded side. But I believe we are better and will win.

It will be interesting to see the reaction of the squad to the probable loss of quite a few frontline players. Hopefully it will galvanise them.

Golden wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

Lower end is 2 weeks so with good behaviour its possible that he only misses Argentina. However it was idiotic enough to deserve to miss the rest of the tournament.

No, I don't agree he deserves more than a week. Why should he? He was reacting to something and he aimed a blow to the lower torso. If he aimed at the head, then I would agree, but not for that. It was a lower end offence as far as I'm concerned.....


....and I'm always right

Even when you're not..

Munchkin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

Lower end is 2 weeks so with good behaviour its possible that he only misses Argentina. However it was idiotic enough to deserve to miss the rest of the tournament.

No, I don't agree he deserves more than a week. Why should he? He was reacting to something and he aimed a blow to the lower torso. If he aimed at the head, then I would agree, but not for that. It was a lower end offence as far as I'm concerned.....


....and I'm always right

If the ref sees it then its a red card and we have to play 78 minutes with 14 men, likely we lose and hed be out for the next game anyway. Agree it was low end offence but I think hes going to miss more then a game.

Considering the TMOs have been picking out very innocuous penalties thus far Im surprised it wasn't called back.

ME-109 wrote:Even when you're not..

Especially when I'm not

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I think Ireland are clear favourites for this one.

Really? Clear favourites?

Yes. Clear favourites.... Shock, horror. You seem to be confused about what I'm saying Luckless.

Our "favourites" tag is objectively confirmed by every bookies on the market. So its hardly a controversial statement. That doesn't mean it will be anywhere easy. It doesn't even mean we will win. Argentina have looked great and are well capable of putting in a big game-winning performance. But why would the twice 6Ns champions be second favourites to the also-rans of the Rugby Championship? We have also won every game against them since 2007 and have been the most consistent competitive side in the NH for 2 years.

Answer honestly: would you have questioned England as favourites if they had won their group beating France well along the way and they had Argentina in the 1/4's? Let alone SA and Australia (Both of whom regularly turn over Argentina while Irl have also turned them both over in the last year)?

Golden wrote:Considering the TMOs have been picking out very innocuous penalties thus far Im surprised it wasn't called back.

That surprised me too. If the TV producers spotted it and highlighted it at half time, you wonder why the TMO wasn't aware of it (or made aware of it). As it is, it'll be Argentina who benefit from his absence instead of France, who needed all the help they could get in that second half.

Golden wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Aha! France save their best for the world cup, if you listened to some. According to some, France were the better side in the pool stages, until Ireland destroyed them, and now it's Argentina's turn to turn over Ireland.

Keep it coming

I have no axe to grind mate. I just think Argentina look very very dangerous. As I said for Ireland to be deemed "clear" favourites despite missing Sexton, O'Connell, O'Mahony and *probably/hopefully SOB could be a bit ambitious.

* I say hopefully because he deserves a ban, but say probably because the level of inconsistency regarding citing offences in the RWC means nothing is for certain.

It wasn't aimed at you, Radge. You hadn't posted before I started typing.

I've seen nothing from Argentina to suggest they are very very dangerous. Certainly a good side, and certainly Ireland will have to lay on another big performance. I don't think Argentina are a better side than Ireland though. Injuries have hurt us, but I think we still have the players to take a win.

I hope SOB gets off with no more than a warning, but he does deserve a ban, although no more than a week. People are really making more of the punch than it deserves.

Lower end is 2 weeks so with good behaviour its possible that he only misses Argentina. However it was idiotic enough to deserve to miss the rest of the tournament.

No, I don't agree he deserves more than a week. Why should he? He was reacting to something and he aimed a blow to the lower torso. If he aimed at the head, then I would agree, but not for that. It was a lower end offence as far as I'm concerned.....


....and I'm always right

If the ref sees it then its a red card and we have to play 78 minutes with 14 men, likely we lose and hed be out for the next game anyway. Agree it was low end offence but I think hes going to miss more then a game.

Considering the TMOs have been picking out very innocuous penalties thus far Im surprised it wasn't called back.

Don't know why it was missed, or ignored. Lucky for us. Some TMO's have been a bit picky, others have let things go. The citing panels have been harsh at times, while others lenient. No consistency, and I'm not going to hope that we get the harsh end of the ruling. Personally I think a one week ban, but you might be right. Time will tell either way.

I was a bit surprised there was no tv reply of the punch on screen or anything... usually there is. That and not one of the 3 refs saw it. O'Brien was lucky... but top performance thereafter. Owens I have to admit had a poor game... he missed quite a few things, not particularly biased to either side, but just a below par performance by his usually high standards.

His mocking of pape was particularly crass though... i.e. he felt Pape wasn't really injured.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I think Ireland are clear favourites for this one.

Really? Clear favourites?

Yes. Clear favourites.... Shock, horror. You seem to be confused about what I'm saying Luckless.

Our "favourites" tag is objectively confirmed by every bookies on the market. So its hardly a controversial statement. That doesn't mean it will be anywhere easy. It doesn't even mean we will win. Argentina have looked great and are well capable of putting in a big game-winning performance. But why would the twice 6Ns champions be second favourites to the also-rans of the Rugby Championship? We have also won every game against them since 2007 and have been the most consistent competitive side in the NH for 2 years.

Answer honestly: would you have questioned England as favourites if they had won their group beating France well along the way and they had Argentina in the 1/4's? Let alone SA and Australia (Both of whom regularly turn over Argentina while Irl have also turned them both over in the last year)?

As I've said, it's the 'clear' bit that surprises me, not the 'favourites' bit.

Why does it feel like backing Argentina is taboo on here?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I think Ireland are clear favourites for this one.

Really? Clear favourites?

Yes. Clear favourites.... Shock, horror. You seem to be confused about what I'm saying Luckless.

Our "favourites" tag is objectively confirmed by every bookies on the market. So its hardly a controversial statement. That doesn't mean it will be anywhere easy. It doesn't even mean we will win. Argentina have looked great and are well capable of putting in a big game-winning performance. But why would the twice 6Ns champions be second favourites to the also-rans of the Rugby Championship? We have also won every game against them since 2007 and have been the most consistent competitive side in the NH for 2 years.

Answer honestly: would you have questioned England as favourites if they had won their group beating France well along the way and they had Argentina in the 1/4's? Let alone SA and Australia (Both of whom regularly turn over Argentina while Irl have also turned them both over in the last year)?

As I've said, it's the 'clear' bit that surprises me, not the 'favourites' bit.

Why does it feel like backing Argentina is taboo on here?

Its just not allowed LP!!! Argentina are not a good side, I repeat not a good side. Beat the boks.... hell, even Japan can beat the boks.

fa0019 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I think Ireland are clear favourites for this one.

Really? Clear favourites?

Yes. Clear favourites.... Shock, horror. You seem to be confused about what I'm saying Luckless.

Our "favourites" tag is objectively confirmed by every bookies on the market. So its hardly a controversial statement. That doesn't mean it will be anywhere easy. It doesn't even mean we will win. Argentina have looked great and are well capable of putting in a big game-winning performance. But why would the twice 6Ns champions be second favourites to the also-rans of the Rugby Championship? We have also won every game against them since 2007 and have been the most consistent competitive side in the NH for 2 years.

Answer honestly: would you have questioned England as favourites if they had won their group beating France well along the way and they had Argentina in the 1/4's? Let alone SA and Australia (Both of whom regularly turn over Argentina while Irl have also turned them both over in the last year)?

As I've said, it's the 'clear' bit that surprises me, not the 'favourites' bit.

Why does it feel like backing Argentina is taboo on here?

Its just not allowed LP!!! Argentina are not a good side, I repeat not a good side. Beat the boks.... hell, even Japan can beat the boks.

This is true, and don't forget Ireland can also beat the Boks...

South Africa also exacted revenge on Argentina by hammering them in the Buenos Aires return match.

Back them all you want, Luckless. Meanwhile it's the backers of Argentina that wondered why some Irish guy was talking about Ireland being 'clear favourites'.
That would be his opinion based on whatever criteria he's using.
Is backing Ireland taboo too?

Let's call this game off due to a disagreement on the value of favouritism.

Oh and the two sides can go straight through to the semis as compensation to them for the banning of their game.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I think Ireland are clear favourites for this one.

Really? Clear favourites?

Yes. Clear favourites.... Shock, horror. You seem to be confused about what I'm saying Luckless.

Our "favourites" tag is objectively confirmed by every bookies on the market. So its hardly a controversial statement. That doesn't mean it will be anywhere easy. It doesn't even mean we will win. Argentina have looked great and are well capable of putting in a big game-winning performance. But why would the twice 6Ns champions be second favourites to the also-rans of the Rugby Championship? We have also won every game against them since 2007 and have been the most consistent competitive side in the NH for 2 years.

Answer honestly: would you have questioned England as favourites if they had won their group beating France well along the way and they had Argentina in the 1/4's? Let alone SA and Australia (Both of whom regularly turn over Argentina while Irl have also turned them both over in the last year)?

As I've said, it's the 'clear' bit that surprises me, not the 'favourites' bit.

Why does it feel like backing Argentina is taboo on here?

I think it's just a matter of timing Luckless. Argentina would probably be my second team after Ireland. So I have nothing against them in that sense. So far as I can tell... there were already quite a few nay-sayers coming in after the Italy game. And an equal number of us on the other side thought that that was knee-jerk rubbish.... That we had a long-term plan and were now a much more consistent international squad. So it feels like more of the same when people are now jumping in again about (a) our injuries meaning that Ireland will now fall apart (b) that we can't string two big games together OR (c) that Argentina's perfomances against second-tier teams should make us feel inferior yet again!

As to the "clear" bit... as I've already tried to explain... that doesn't mean we'll win easy or win by a huge margin. It's just that you're either favourites or you're not. And Ireland according to all bookies, clearly, are favourites. Argentina are not. We will probably have as good as home advantage as well.

Now the Argies, if they're smart, could try and use all this against us... But we're all hoping that this new generation of players have proven they can carry the favourites tag these days.

I don't know what fa0019's hyperbole and sarcasm is trying to get at as not one person I've read has made out that the Argies are not a very good team or that they could not win this game.

Even with the injuries I think Ireland will go in the favourites of the back of that performance even though Argentina have looked consistently impressive

Madigan from that game may leapfrog Jackson as starting 10. I haven't seen Jackson play in a while but remember him not being as consistent of the tee, still happy with him coming on as a replacement. Aside from one real moment of utter madness Madigan's passing was slick and progressive, and he has an eye for the gaps.

I wonder how much of how Ireland played yesterday was due to Sexton coming off, would we have seen more of the ball being put to boot if he stayed on? Because aside from the result it was some of the best rugby Ireland have played in a while against a team of similar level. More of that.

Happy with all of the other replacements coming in. Henry and Murphy very able to slot in and Ruddock has impressed in his few appearances. Henderson was immense once again and Ryan off the bench will be a handful.

Rest of the team as is.