Ireland v Italy, 4 October

 
IRELAND V ITALY
4 October 2015
KO: 16:45
Olympic Stadium, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gaüzère (France) & Angus Gardner (Australia)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

24 Played 24
20 Won 4
0 Drawn 0
4 Lost 20
772 Points 382

B. Recent Form

7 February 2015
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
3 – 26 to Ireland

8 March 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 7 to Ireland

16 March 2013
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
22 – 15 to Italy

25 February 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
42 – 10 to Ireland

2 October 2011
Otago Stadium, Dunedin, New Zealand
36 – 6 to Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND

15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)

1. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster) captain
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements

16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
20. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

ITALY

Luke McLean; Leonardo Sarto, Michele Capagnaro, Gonzalo Garcia, Giovanbattista Venditti; Tommaso Allan, Edoardo Gori; Matias Aguero, Andrea Manici, Lorenzo Cittadini; Quintin Geldenhuys, Josh Furno; Francesco Minton, Simone Favaro, Sergio Parisse (capt).

Replacements: Davide Giazzon, Michele Rizzo, Dario Chistolini, Alessandro Zanni, Mauro Bergamasco, Guglielmo Palazzani, Carlo Canna, Tommaso Benvenuti.

These photos are soooo sterotypical!

Yet sadly accurate

So.................. pasta.

What's everybody's fancy?  Tagliatelle would have to be mine where you get to try out fork gymnastics with the stuff that's fallen onto your knee or the floor.

Don't bring Payne up again, Fly! Leave it out. You're becoming as big a wum as Chunky!

I would love to see Paddy Jackson get a start at 10. I think he is a far more controlling 10 than Madigan and that is what I feel is needed. On the other hand, Sexton needs some match time as well.

60mins Jackson, 20 min burst from Sexton.

Surely it will be the strongest team possible? Last thing needed is a slip up or close match with Italy.

That's two votes for giving Jackson a break and allowing him a start at 10. If he's good enough to be asked to step into Sexton's shoes in the event of a major injury to Sexton, then I think he's good enough to be given most of the Italian game.

Let's see how he does with Murray at his side. Let's see what we look like.

Sexton should be rested till the real knock-out stuff starts - no point of risking an injury against dirty teams like Italy or France. Same for POC, the old man shouldnt really play every week anymore, not that close to pre-retirement

No way Sexton has to start - he had last week off and only played 60 against Canada - he need the game time before Basteraud tries to head but him again.

Interesting who may start at 15 - my guess is Dave Kearney given Zebo and Kearney would have missed some of the sessons.

My guess is a backline of:-

Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Payne, Bowe, D Kearney

Earls or Cave on the bench.

eirebilly wrote:I would love to see Paddy Jackson get a start at 10. I think he is a far more controlling 10 than Madigan and that is what I feel is needed. On the other hand, Sexton needs some match time as well.

60mins Jackson, 20 min burst from Sexton.

Jackson needs the game time, but I would start sexton for this game, with Jackson to come off the bench in the last 30. Jackson should have started last week, but for whatever reason Schmidt wanted Madigan to start,  even though we know how he would play in that role.

Based on the previous 6 games it would be very surprising to see anything other than Sexton starting and Madigan on the bench.

Paddy's just there for experience - Schmidts already planning for retaining the Webb Ellis in Japan.

If the Italians turn up and make a game of it into the second half then I don't think Joe will be of a mind to drop Jackson in there or take Sexton off.

I think Jackson in the 'softening up' half would be ideal. Italy will try to save some of themselves for the second half when they'll expect Ireland to rev it up and go for the kill. So for me, the first half is 'safest'.

But I guess it'll be Sexton and then Madigan coming on again.

Here we have it, the game that will show which side of the curve Ireland are on - Good luck men in green as this will be one helluva game and possibly one we will talk about for a long long time

Would agree it will probably be strongest team available, which would suggest Henshaw and Payne in the centres.
But that means 4 games without a rest for Payne? (not that he's doing much )

Might we see Henshaw and Fitzgerald?

Here we have it, the game that will show which side of the curve Ireland are on - Good luck men in green as this will be one helluva game and possibly one we will talk about for a long long time

thumbsup

RubyGuby

If the Ireland v Romania thread is anything to go by it could a long long long time!

rapidsnowman wrote:Would agree it will probably be strongest team available, which would suggest Henshaw and Payne in the centres.
But that means 4 games without a rest for Payne? (not that he's doing much )

Might we see Henshaw and Fitzgerald?

Nope - that's why Payne came off early last week, no chance Robbie gets thrown in with Fitzgerald beside him - Payne runs the show in midfield so needs to start the big games.

RubyGuby wrote:Here we have it, the game that will show which side of the curve Ireland are on - Good luck men in green as this will be one helluva game and possibly one we will talk about for a long long time

Yeah, it's been a strange WC for us so far.  It's as if we haven't really been at it.  Just observers.  We've looked at all the dramas unfold with Japan and SA and England and Wales.  We've seen Pools already have their seismic shifts and turns.  And already people are talking about some teams being at the exit door with their bags packed.

And here we are - nobody looking at us or paying heed.  And our players getting out of bed and looking at their watches: "What time is it???  Oh Christ!  It's the WC.  We're late!!!  Get to the Tube quickly!"

rodders wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:Would agree it will probably be strongest team available, which would suggest Henshaw and Payne in the centres.
But that means 4 games without a rest for Payne? (not that he's doing much )

Might we see Henshaw and Fitzgerald?

Nope - that's why Payne came off early last week, no chance Robbie gets thrown in with Fitzgerald beside him - Payne runs the show in midfield so needs to start the big games.

Williams thinks you're daft, btw, rodders. Said so during an ad break on TV3.

Looks like Payne will miss the Italy game. Bruised foot: PaynesOut

Lovely comment on the bottom (no pun intended0 of that.

Ha! Didn't look for comments. Hope Williams reads it.

If Payne is out, he was in need of a break anyway. Maybe Earls/Cave at 13 with Henshaw? eirebilly is hoping for Cave and Henshaw. So am I

Munchkin wrote:Looks like Payne will miss the Italy game. Bruised foot: PaynesOut

NOOOOOOO!!!!

Has to be Henshaw and Gordon D'arcy then.

Yet another player given a chance to be 'nailed on' - even if we lose.

But we never lose?

Nevermind.  TV3 coverage will now be mandatory watching to see Williams trip over himself in praise of Madigan - super-utility slave who'll undoubtedly take the strain again at No 13.....

"Aw really top clausss pureformance from Modygain there, which shahouws dut I woz riot all along in me analysize of Jaroyde Pine.  Bowie and Cyve were quite utter shyte t'diy, to be honest - but that's another story intoyrly"

RubyGuby wrote:Here we have it, the game that will show which side of the curve Ireland are on - Good luck men in green as this will be one helluva game and possibly one we will talk about for a long long time

I hope there won't be much to talk about next week. A boring win with no injuries will do nicely. Maybe next week a good old Earls vs Fitz debate will liven the place up.

Well, if Payne and Kearney are doubts there's no sense risking them. We have to trust the other players in our group and I think we can and should.

My only regret is that Payne and Henshaw have only had one game together this season and I would have liked them to have more; but they were able to gel well enough when thrown together initially at even shorter notice and both are more comfortable in the Ireland camp now.

So picking the players who are training fully seems like the Joe Schmidt thing to do here.

Notch wrote:Well, if Payne and Kearney are doubts there's no sense risking them. We have to trust the other players in our group and I think we can and should.

My only regret is that Payne and Henshaw have only had one game together this season and I would have liked them to have more; but they were able to gel well enough when thrown together initially at even shorter notice and both are more comfortable in the Ireland camp now.

So picking the players who are training fully seems like the Joe Schmidt thing to do here.

If there were any doubts surrounding Payne for any future games, who would you expect/like to see as the centre partnership? It may not actually be a bad thing that we see a new midfield combination for the Italy game that doesn't involve Payne.

Regardless of what people may think of him, things start to look a little scary when he is unavailable for our key games. Suddenly that very solid and dependable midfield (which Payne is a key part of) doesn't look so stable. I think that is when people would start to realise what he has offered in both attack and defence. I've said before I think he is one of the key players for Ireland in this World Cup.

EDIT: My logic may sound a bit strange here, suggesting it is a good thing we look at another option in the midfield, but we do need a back-up and I think Henshaw is easier to replace at 12 than Payne is at 13. For the World Cup at least, this is not the time for drastic changes.

Munchkin wrote:If Payne is out, he was in need of a break anyway. Maybe Earls/Cave at 13 with Henshaw? eirebilly is hoping for Cave and Henshaw. So am I

You are not wrong, I am desperate to see how those two work together. Got a great feeling about them

So I guess our back line will be something like:

15  Zebo
14  Dave Kearney (Bowe as 2nd Half sub)
13  Cave / Earls
12  Henshaw
11  Keith Earls (Bowe as 2nd Half sub)
10  Sexton
9    Murray

It may be forced on us through injury... but frankly a back line anything like that one will make this Italy game one of the most intriguing games in a long while. Zebo and Earls both looked pumped in the last two games and seem determined to express themselves in the best way possible. How can Cave not come out determined to prove a similarly big point? Kearney also knows he's got to play in a manner that helps him stay out in front and keep his new starting place. It's exciting to think that genuine penetrating line breaks could really come from anyone in that backline.

Here's hoping this all adds to Joe's grand system rather than adding new tensions.

Rory- if Payne went out of the RWC tomorrow I would want to see Luke Fitzgerald at 12 and Robbie Henshaw at 13.

Serious question. I know all the different combinations being touted are peoples wish lists etc. But given Joe prefers certain players in specific positions what really are the odds of seeing players like Henshaw for example being played at 13. When he has never done so for Ireland.

Actually, the last time Jared Payne was unavailable for Ireland or not selected- excepting the recent warm-up games, which are experimental by nature- was against Australia in Autumn 2014. And the starting centre partnership was D'Arcy at 12 and Henshaw at 13. He had also covered the position under Schmidt in previous squads and I believe came off the bench there.

I would tend to agree with you though, and that isn't exactly a huge amount of time spent in that role to speak of, but Fitzgerald was selected at 12 without having recently played the position at test level or played it much at all. Henshaw was initially selected at 12 having had almost no experience in that role at all.

So I wouldn't second guess him. I think it's definitely not impossible if he thinks he is good enough to do it.

ME-109 wrote:Serious question. I know all the different combinations being touted are peoples wish lists etc. But given Joe prefers certain players in specific positions what really are the odds of seeing players like Henshaw for example being played at 13. When he has never done so for Ireland.

Not in this World Cup, but certainly afterwards it would make a lot of sense for Henshaw to move back to 13. Apart from the fact he is best there, Henshaw won't even be the best player available to Ireland at 12. He will be challenged heavily by McCloskey, Olding and Marshall. Potentially Scannell as well who seems to be a very promising player for Munster.

Interesting stats from Opta, published in NZH.  Two games in for all the main contenders and I know that it would be unscientific to draw comparisons, as some Nations have had a tougher one or two games than others.
But still, it kinda gives an overview of overall performances.  Ireland predictably don't come in on the offloads list.  And they seem to have their lineout issues, but apart from that, four sides seem to have the edge so far in displaying top grades in an array of measurables.


Tries:
Aus 14, Ire 13, NZ 11, Scot/SA 10
Cleanbreaks:  
Aus 22,  NZ 22,  Ire 20,  SA 20
Carries:  
SA 216,  Ire 211,  NZ 200,  Canada 197
Metres:  
Ire 1305,  Aus 1172,  SA 1119,  NZ 1107
Defenders Beaten:
SA 67,  Aus 61,  NZ 59,  Ire 56
Tackle success (%):
Scot 93,  Ire 92.3,  Wales 91.1,  Fr 90
Lineout (%):
Arg 96.6,  Italy 96.6,  Japan, 95.5,  NZ 93.3
Offloads:
NZ 27,  Arg 25,  Georgia 23, Tonga 22
Scrum success:
Quite a few in this list at 100%.  But out of assumed contenders only Ire, SA and NZ show.
Ruck success (%):
Japan 98,  Wales 97,  Ire 97,  Scot 97

So NZ, SA, AUS and ourselves have had various degrees of fortune so far, but still with consistent showing on the basics.  
Ireland also have the highest number of points scored.

Two tough games to come (at least on paper) but those stats still impress me because I actually expected Argentina and Scotland to profit more from looking much more explosive and 'emotionally involved' than us so far.

Yes. It tells us ire, nz and aus have played the weaker teams so far..thats about it

Not really at all DOD.  Teams that have had tougher games should have more naturally appeared on some of the stats because of the effort it takes/took to compete or win.

It tells me the methodical teams are...................... the methodical teams.  And it's no secret that SA, AUS and NZ are there.  That's the habitual top three.  Not chance.... history.
The surprise is that Ireland look comfortable playing the methodology game now too.  

A handful of more offloads per game and the Webb Ellis is ours

eirebilly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:If Payne is out, he was in need of a break anyway. Maybe Earls/Cave at 13 with Henshaw? eirebilly is hoping for Cave and Henshaw. So am I

You are not wrong, I am desperate to see how those two work together. Got a great feeling about them

Not sure we will see it though. Think Earls or possibly Fitz will start at 13. Not that I think they should.

I really think that for the first time in recent times you're right to talk just about your own team without caring at all about Italy, it will be just an ordinary day at the office for you folks

Oh I wouldn't say we don't care about Italy, aqua.  A lot of tongue-in-cheek stuff above that might lead someone to that conclusion but that's only in-jokes and messing amongst the Irish regular eejits here.

Italy are in must win territory and it's an all or nothing game really for them.  So they'll be aggressive and dangerous.  An injury to one or two Irish boys or indeed a yellow or red card and all bets are off on what the result may be.  

So nothing is written in stone.  As was being talked about on another thread recently, this will be the first game when Ireland are asked serious questions about how good they might be - and will the supposed softness of the first two games expose them as being a touch soft and not up to the full pace themselves?

Italy were made to work by Canada.  Those kind of games get the alertness levels up more than the games Ireland have had to face to date.

don't misunderstand me mate, we don't feel ignored or underestimated, we simply are fully aware we are a sinking ship at the moment that can't represent a serious threat to Ireland, and what we've showed so far clearly proves it.
Is this Irish team an overall better team than we are? sure thing. Have Italy the skills and the talent on a given day to edge Ireland? Yes, I think yes, but not in a period of transition due to the conflicts and a virtually broken relationship between the team and Brunel.
Under such a condition any loss below 15 points would be considered a huge success in Italy

Oh please God prove me wrong

Is Parisse playing or is he still a doubt? Has anything been announced yet?

still waiting, as well as Ghiraldini, who actually shouldn't be able to play

I don't really want to play this game - will Italy take the draw and we can focus on beating France?

Thanks.

I guess we can make a deal!

Exquisite little line from Donnacha Ryan, which kinda sets out beautifully the distinction between the big guys in the forwards section who shun (or are shunned!!!) by the spotlights and their hightailed, highly-preened and self obsessed cousins, the backs.

"Everyone imagines running 60 metres down the line for a try. Unfortunately as a second row you don't have that type of imagination"

Wonderful stuff.

SecretFly wrote:Interesting stats from Opta, published in NZH.  Two games in for all the main contenders and I know that it would be unscientific to draw comparisons, as some Nations have had a tougher one or two games than others.
But still, it kinda gives an overview of overall performances.  Ireland predictably don't come in on the offloads list.  And they seem to have their lineout issues, but apart from that, four sides seem to have the edge so far in displaying top grades in an array of measurables.


Tries:
Aus 14, Ire 13, NZ 11, Scot/SA 10
Cleanbreaks:  
Aus 22,  NZ 22,  Ire 20,  SA 20
Carries:  
SA 216,  Ire 211,  NZ 200,  Canada 197
Metres:  
Ire 1305,  Aus 1172,  SA 1119,  NZ 1107
Defenders Beaten:
SA 67,  Aus 61,  NZ 59,  Ire 56
Tackle success (%):
Scot 93,  Ire 92.3,  Wales 91.1,  Fr 90
Lineout (%):
Arg 96.6,  Italy 96.6,  Japan, 95.5,  NZ 93.3
Offloads:
NZ 27,  Arg 25,  Georgia 23, Tonga 22
Scrum success:
Quite a few in this list at 100%.  But out of assumed contenders only Ire, SA and NZ show.
Ruck success (%):
Japan 98,  Wales 97,  Ire 97,  Scot 97

So NZ, SA, AUS and ourselves have had various degrees of fortune so far, but still with consistent showing on the basics.  
Ireland also have the highest number of points scored.

Two tough games to come (at least on paper) but those stats still impress me because I actually expected Argentina and Scotland to profit more from looking much more explosive and 'emotionally involved' than us so far.

Ireland have 100% success on their own lineout, don't know why those stats don't include us.