The worst England Team of all time!

OK, enough of this insulting of the current (rather crap) England team!  I am sure we can do worse!

Let's select the England team based on the worst players to wear the shirt.  Let's keep it post 1995 (i.e. pro era)

I'll start off with a few (I find it fareasier for backs!):

? at 1
Lee Mears at 2 (for his scrummaging) or LCD for his throwing or T Youngs for both
? at 3
? at 4
? at 5
? at 6
? at 7
? at 8
Shaun Perry at 9
? at 11
Sam Vesty at 10
Henry Paul at 12
Ayoola Erinlie at 13
? at 14
? at 15



Anyone care to add to the team? Really need some forwards!

Updated team...

? at 1
Lee Mears at 2 (for his scrummaging) or LCD for his throwing
? at 3
? at 4
? at 5
Ben Sturnham at 6
Richard Pool-Jones at 7
Tom Wood at 8
Shaun Perry at 9
Phil Christophers at 11
Sam Vesty at 10
Henry Paul at 12
Ayoola Erinlie at 13
Leslie Vainikolo at 14
Michael Stephenson at 15

Were there not some really rubbish England teams back in the 70s?

TJ wrote:Were there not some really rubbish England teams back in the 70s?

Aye, but I thought I'd restrict it to the pro era (mainly because I didn't watch much rugby before 1995 and if I did I was a bit young to appreciate the nuance...)

screamingaddabs wrote:OK, enough of this insulting of the current (rather crap) England team!  I am sure we can do worse!

Let's select the England team based on the worst players to wear the shirt.  Let's keep it post 1995 (i.e. pro era)

I'll start off with a few (I find it fareasier for backs!):

? at 1
Lee Mears at 2 (for his scrummaging) or LCD for his throwing
? at 3
? at 4
? at 5
? at 6
? at 7
? at 8
Shaun Perry at 9
? at 11
Sam Vesty at 10
Henry Paul at 12
Ayoola Erinlie at 13
? at 14
? at 15



Anyone care to add to the team? Really need some forwards!

Or TY for a combination of the 2?

Cipriani at 10.
Burgess at 12.
Goode at 15.

mikey_dragon wrote:Cipriani at 10.
Burgess at 12.
Goode at 15.

Wow, you put a lot of effort into that one, well done big man!

Burgess does have a shout at 12, but he is leaps ahead of Henry Paul in my opinion...

You can put your worst England team out, and they still wouldn't lose to Japan.

Phil Christophers on the wing?

Biltong wrote:You can put your worst England team out, and they still wouldn't lose to Japan.

Though I must admit I don't have your confidence...

The worst England team of all time ...... in the pro era.

Even this thread is awful.

Sort it out boys!

Cumbrian wrote:Phil Christophers on the wing?

A great shout! Lacked most of the qualities of a great winger!

Has to be the shower who lost 79-nil in Australia in 1999 with Robshaw as captain

rapidsnowman wrote:The worst England team of all time ...... in the pro era.

Even this thread is awful.

Sort it out boys!

Sorry! Fine, expand it to of all time. I still reckon most of them will be from the pro era anyway. Specifically between 2003 and 2010.

rodders wrote:Has to be the shower who lost 79-nil in Australia in 1999 with Robshaw as captain

6 Ben Sturnham, F
7 Richard Pool-Jones, F

I was going to agree until I saw who the flankers were for that game! We definitely need Robshaw's captaincy in this side though...

Leslie Vinacola (spelling)

John Orwin, second row and captain for the 1988 tour to Australia. If I remember he was a corporal in the RAF and frankly not good enough for their team.

Chris Martin (no not the Coldplay frontman, but surely he would have been better) Bath fullback who put in the worst display I have ever seen for England on debut.


Mark Linnett and Andy Mullins - props who made their deuts in the same game against romania in 1989 - never featured again.

Barrie-Jon Mather - an early convert from RTL, ran back with his tail between his legs.

anyone who made their debut's on the 1998 tour to hell and never featured agaim. Scott Benton, Spencer Brown and Ben Sturnham spring to mind.

Michael Stephenson and Stevw White-Cooper who featured on the american tour during the 2001 Lions

Michgael Horak - proof that having Saffer ancestry and playing for L:eicester and Saracens does not mean you are any good.

Tim Payne - the worst english player to ever go on a Lions tour.

Pretty much anyone who got their only appearances onthe 2007 tour to SA

Lesley Vainikolo and Henry Paul

Paul doran Jones

Joel Tomkins

Of all time is silly. Lets say post 2000.

Monye at 15

John Bentley wasn't the best on the wing.

rodders wrote:John Bentley wasn't the best on the wing.

A very average player really, elevated to a status far above hi sabilities due to a single try for the Lions dirt trackers.

Will Carling for choice of girlfriends (unless you count count Dannty "slept with a man" Cipriani)

Biltong wrote:You can put your worst England team out, and they still wouldn't lose to Japan.

England very nearly did lose to Japan. We only won because the referee Clive Norling - who was travelling with the England team - overruled the linesmen when they said a conversion went over. He also played around three weeks of extra time, which gave England a chance to get the winning score at the end.

Biltong wrote:You can put your worst England team out, and they still wouldn't lose to Japan.

Weeeeeeeeellllllll.

We lost to Wales and Wales lost to Japan.

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:You can put your worst England team out, and they still wouldn't lose to Japan.

Weeeeeeeeellllllll.

We lost to Wales and Wales lost to Japan.

Hell, no cheering you fellows up then, eh?

Sadly I got nothing more.

"Hell, no cheering you fellows up then, eh?

Sadly I got nothing more."

I think that's a quote from Lancaster to the team after the Aus. game.

Nope, Andy Farrell does not let Lancaster speak.

First thing I'd do with Lancaster if I let him stay on... take that damn folder out of his hand and burn it. He holds it like a nervous man holds a cigarette - for dear life.

Feck the folder in the bin, Lancaster. It's a crutch. Try a year or two on instinct.

Two Andy s to consider

Titterall and Farrell himself

Ugo Monye at 15 was horrific

Tim Payne was a terrible terrible player.

Matt Stevens for the other side? He was fairly Poopie at Int level.

Louis Deacon, Botha or Steve Borthwick at locks? All of them good club men but worse then average at the international game.

Ben (hands-like-feet) Clarke
Phil de Glanville

What a horrible thread

PerryGee wrote:Ben (hands-like-feet) Clarke
Phil de Glanville

Totally wrong on Ben Clarke who was awesome. After the Lions tour to New Zealand in 1993 someone (a kiwi) famously said, "you can send all the Lions back home except Ben Clarke - we'll keep him."

hugehandoff wrote:

PerryGee wrote:Ben (hands-like-feet) Clarke
Phil de Glanville

Totally wrong on Ben Clarke who was awesome. After the Lions tour to New Zealand in 1993 someone (a kiwi) famously said, "you can send all the Lions back home except Ben Clarke - we'll keep him."  

Have to agree, Ben Clarke was a quality player.

Clarke was ahead of his time.

Bearing in mind how poor some players have been in the past, how about those who could have played for england but went elsewhere (not to those easily offended, this is tongue in cheek)


Dave Hilton
Keiron cunningham***
Chris Horsman
Tony Copsey
Tim Swinson
Dan Lydiate
Budge Pountney
Colin Charvis
Rupert Moon
Tom Heathcote
Alex Cuthbert
Iestyn Harris
Alex Grove
Max Evans
Greig Tonks


Struggling with hooker so gone with an RL man.

Payne and Duncan Bell at props? Noticing a strong 2009 theme running through this team!

Gooseberry wrote:Will Carling for choice of girlfriends (unless you count count Dannty "slept with a man" Cipriani)

Don't talk about Will's and Harry's stepdad like that!

rodders wrote:Has to be the shower who lost 79-nil in Australia in 1999 with Robshaw as captain

So typical of the negativity towards England on these boards that even that unfortunate England result gets exaggerated. For goodness' sakes, it was only 76-0. More seriously, it's worth remembering that from that shambolic team survived Lewsey, Dawson and a young pipskeak called Wilkinson who all featured in a rather more successful England team in Australia just 5 years later. Maybe there is medium-term hope to be gained from this RWC

I also think it's a little harsh to nominate Robshaw as worst captain since 1995. It's worth remembering how far he - himself an international novice at the time - has taken this England team from rudderless mob to the basis for a potentially brighter future. My worst England captain has to be S Borthwick. Brilliant at the line out, underrated at the scrum, and completely clueless in any open play or team communication. He also gave us surely the most cringeworthy moment ever from an England captain when he waved a pretend card, a la Wendyballers, at the ref during a 6N game when he was captain. I rest my case.

Here's mine:

1. Tim Payne
2. Andy Long
3. Will Green
4. Dave Sims
5. Rob Fidler
6. Ben Sturnham
7. Richard Pool-Jones
8. Chris Sheasby
9. Shaun Perry
10.Mark Mapletoft
11.Leslie Vainikolo
12.Barrie-Jon Mather
13.Henry Paul
14.Spencer Brown
15.Michael Horak.

Honourable mentions go to Tom Beim, Dunkin' Donut Bell, Phil Christophers, Robbie Morris, Mark Van Gisbergen and Roy Winters.

Mr Bounce....what have you got against Glaws players then ?

Who was the middle row guy who was born on Scotland (my God, you actually stole one of our's for once!!). He was capped about 5 years ago when he wouldn't have gotten near even the Scotland team. I think he is playing in France now. He was utterly honking.
Matt Stevens wasn't the worst player but how he got so many caps is hard to fathom

You could add a new angle to the thread to include duff selection.
None of the current crop are bad players but some of the team selections and combinations have been mystifying.

Gregor there's a few Wasps there as well. And I support them. Perhaps I should also throw in Tony Diprose too - one of the most overrated players I have seen.

At least its not the worst Scotland team of the modern era - quite a few of those England players mentioned would have been a huge improvement over some of the guys we had.

Frak hell Hugo Southwell was complete crap !

Shocked that Ben Clark got a mention, I always thought he was brilliant, his probably only failing was leaving Bath for Richmond at the onset of professional rugby, he played open side for England during a period when link man type open sides were unfashionable.  

Oh and accepting the England captaincy when Will Carling said the "59 old farts" comments and got sacked by them for it.  All the other players were switched on enough to understand what had happened apart from poor old Ben.  Of course by the time he figured it out, the RFU had announced him as captain publicly and he looked a bit of a plank.  

But on the field I thought he was talented.

I think it might of been more fun to have a greatest England team of all time myself.

15 Jason Robinson
14 David Duckham
13 Will Carling
12 Jeremy Guscott
11 Rory Underwood
10 Johnny Wilkinson
9 Dewi Morris
8 Andy Ripley
7 Richard Hill
6 Lawrence Dallagio
5 Bill Beaumont
4 Martin Johnson
3 Jason Leonard
2 Brian Moore
1 Andrew Sheridan

Not being funny wouldn't it be better to talk about he merits of Rory Underwood and David Duckham, or putting a back row together Micky Skinner, Dean Richards. Trying to pick a scrum half from Richard Hill, Matt Dawson and Dewi Morris etc? I'd rather talk about the talent England have had, than the players who fell short in an England shirt.

I think the "best team" would need a whole new thread. Not sure about Sheridan and I was always a fan of Mickey Skinner at 6 but, especially in the forwards, the game of yesteryear is totally different and with emphasis on different skills, meaningfully comparing cross-generation stuff becomes almost impossible.