Ulster v Cardiff Blues 23rd October 2015 19:35 Kingspan Stadium

First topic message reminder :

Ulster's last six matches have all been won by the home side on the day whilst they are unbeaten at Kingspan Stadium in the Guinness PRO12 in their last 13 fixtures since Leinster were the visitors in May 2014.

If they avoid defeat this weekend Ulster will equal their best ever home unbeaten run in the PRO12 set over a decade ago.

Should Cardiff Blues lose this game they will complete a clean sweep of losses away to Irish Provinces over the last four rounds.

The Blues most recent victory outside Wales in the PRO12 came when they visited Zebre in the opening round last season.

Ulster's solo defeat to Blues in their last six fixtures was 23-28 at BT Sport Cardiff Arms Park in March 2014 whilst the Welshmen have not been victorious in Belfast since April 2010.

At Kingspan Stadium, 7.35pm. Live on BBC Sport NI
Referee: Ben Whitehouse (WRU, 11th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Nigel Correll, Paul Haycock (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eddie Walsh (IRFU)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (IRFU)

Previous Meetings

27/3/15 Ulster Rugby 36 - 17 Cardiff Blues 16,413
19/9/14 Cardiff Blues 9 - 26 Ulster Rugby 7,041
29/3/14 Cardiff Blues 28 - 23 Ulster Rugby 7,084

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/18127.php#x2VW6viAHeWM4be1.99

wales606 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

PhilBB wrote:I'd say that's a Cardiff team containing only 4 or 5 first choice players.

That, with Ulster being a tidy team, and with Whitehouse's record, it should be a 5-0 tomorrow.

Think I need reminding who is "first choice" at Cardiff these days.

Anscombe, Cuthbert, Allen, Lee Lo, James, Patchell, Williams
Vosawai, Warburton, Dolan, Hoeata, Down, Mitchell, Dacey, Jenkins

Knoyle, Isaacs, Scully
Hobbs, Rees, Andrews, Reed, Navidi

Not quite right for me,

Scully over Cuthbert at the moment,

Vosawai is nowhere near first choice. Best backrow is probably 6. Turnball 7. Warburton 8. Navidi

I'd say you would do well to keep Hoeata out of the starting 15 as well. He is a penalty and card machine to the point that he almost acts as a double agent for the other team.

Well, great to get another 5 points, but it really wasn't a great game. It looked as though Ulster stopped pressing once we got the bonus point, as though the win was in the bag. Far from it.

Think Williams deserved his MoTM, although Herring and Van der Merwe had good games. Van der Merwes leadership qualities coming to the fore in this game, I think.

Humphs.......

Think Cardiff might have two players cited. Don't think Turnbull merited a red, but memories of Marshall being cited, and suspended for an accidental kick to the head, last season, makes me think he might just get cited.
An Irish TMO stopped the ref from issuing the red....

Away to Munster next..... Can't wait for the new coach to take over.

Hard luck, Cardiff. Never gave up. Never stopped pressing, and could have drawn the game with a bit of luck, near the end.

Not a good performance from Ulster, even though we got the BP win. Some of the penalties we're giving away at the breakdown and Lewis Stevenson playing the man in the air at the lineout like he does every time he plays, without ever learning had me absolutely tearing my hair out. We were blessed to turn around ahead after having the worse a poor first half due to a Cardiff players moment of madness giving us a second bite of the cherry, then we played for 10 minutes in the second half and took our foot off the gas.

The team definitely needs some new ideas because all the other main issues was what we see week after week after week- abominable breakdown technique being the main offender, with forwards giving away penalties on our ball just by flopping over the ruck or coming in from the side. Doaks got us trying to play a wide, continuity-based game but we can't take the ball through the phases reliably because we're so bad at securing our own ball. If you want to take teams through phase after phase like we do with this game plan, you have to be clinical and accurate at the breakdown. We're among the least clinical and accurate breakdown sides in the league.

Thought the referee had a good game, got all the big calls right. Cardiff were also good opponents, came with a very good tactical kicking game and they really frustrated us and controlled the game in the first half with that wind advantage. They were the better team for the first 40 in truth. Also, despite two real moments of individual indiscipline that cost them very dearly indeed, they hardly conceded any kickable penalties all night. Wonder how that game would have went if they hadn't gone and committed those silly yellow card offences- they could have snuck it.

Notch wrote:Thought the referee had a good game, got all the big calls right. Cardiff were also good opponents, came with a very good tactical kicking game and they really frustrated us and controlled the game in the first half with that wind advantage. They were the better team for the first 40 in truth. Also, despite two real moments of individual indiscipline that cost them very dearly indeed, they hardly conceded any kickable penalties all night. Wonder how that game would have went if they hadn't gone and committed those silly yellow card offences- they could have snuck it.

I thought the ref had a poor game, thought he was harsh on Ulster at the breakdown. Ulster seem to get the better of Cardiff there and he was giving them penalties when it should went the other way

He also missed Ulster being offside at an early maul

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:Thought the referee had a good game, got all the big calls right. Cardiff were also good opponents, came with a very good tactical kicking game and they really frustrated us and controlled the game in the first half with that wind advantage. They were the better team for the first 40 in truth. Also, despite two real moments of individual indiscipline that cost them very dearly indeed, they hardly conceded any kickable penalties all night. Wonder how that game would have went if they hadn't gone and committed those silly yellow card offences- they could have snuck it.

I thought the ref had a poor game, thought he was harsh on Ulster at the breakdown. Ulster seem to get the better of Cardiff there and he was giving them penalties when it should went the other way

He also missed Ulster being offside at an early maul

I thought he made himself very clear to the players as to what he wanted at the breakdown, even if you did not agree with him the players should have been listening to his instructions and reacting.
Thought the ref was pretty good to be honest

We were dire. Kiss can't arrive soon enough. Played for 15 minutes in the second half, had a nice nap for the rest of the game. Just bone-headed overall.

Didn't like the fact that Whitehous didn't allow competition for the ball at the breakdown, but he was very clear about it.

Thought he applied common sense for both the dodgy tackles, but it's infuriating that we would have seen a red for the one on Gilroy last season. Every season the there's a flavour of the month approach to a new issue.

McCloskey was good, Arnold and Reidy weren't bad. Who got MotM? I'd have given it to Patchell.

Williams was mom. But agree patchell was the best player for the full 80

carpet baboon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:Thought the referee had a good game, got all the big calls right. Cardiff were also good opponents, came with a very good tactical kicking game and they really frustrated us and controlled the game in the first half with that wind advantage. They were the better team for the first 40 in truth. Also, despite two real moments of individual indiscipline that cost them very dearly indeed, they hardly conceded any kickable penalties all night. Wonder how that game would have went if they hadn't gone and committed those silly yellow card offences- they could have snuck it.

I thought the ref had a poor game, thought he was harsh on Ulster at the breakdown. Ulster seem to get the better of Cardiff there and he was giving them penalties when it should went the other way

He also missed Ulster being offside at an early maul

I thought he made himself very clear to the players as to what he wanted at the breakdown, even if you did not agree with him the players should have been listening to his instructions and reacting.
Thought the ref was pretty good to be honest

He was clear but there was obviously wasn't being heard, both teams seemed to struggle to hear him at times. Like Don said though he wasn't allowing a competition at the breakdown, it seems to have been an area Ulster have put some work into with success and he cut their legs from under them there. If you are straight in over the ball how many refs are going to penalise you?

Rory the powers that be are hopeful Olding will recover ok.
Signs are good but obviously the proof will come when he plays next

wales606 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

PhilBB wrote:I'd say that's a Cardiff team containing only 4 or 5 first choice players.

That, with Ulster being a tidy team, and with Whitehouse's record, it should be a 5-0 tomorrow.

Think I need reminding who is "first choice" at Cardiff these days.

Anscombe, Cuthbert, Allen, Lee Lo, James, Patchell, Williams
Vosawai, Warburton, Dolan, Hoeata, Down, Mitchell, Dacey, Jenkins

Knoyle, Isaacs, Scully
Hobbs, Rees, Andrews, Reed, Navidi

Not quite right for me,

Scully over Cuthbert at the moment,

Vosawai is nowhere near first choice. Best backrow is probably 6. Turnball 7. Warburton 8. Navidi

Well, if that game didn't highlight that your back row is dreadfully misbalanced then nothing will.

Turnball is a bloody show pony.

Notch wrote:Thought the referee had a good game, got all the big calls right. Cardiff were also good opponents, came with a very good tactical kicking game and they really frustrated us and controlled the game in the first half with that wind advantage. They were the better team for the first 40 in truth. Also, despite two real moments of individual indiscipline that cost them very dearly indeed, they hardly conceded any kickable penalties all night. Wonder how that game would have went if they hadn't gone and committed those silly yellow card offences- they could have snuck it.

Marshall's try should never have been awarded because of the illegal clear out before hand. Fish should never have been penalised for fairly challenging for the ball in the air.

From 35 minutes on, including those two key decisions, Whitehouse totally favoured Ulster. He got the calls very wrong. He got the Turnball call wrong and had to be 'guided' by the TMO.

Not issuing a card for either of Ulster's late challenge on the kicker was also a crucial decision that favoured the home team.

As expected, Whitehouse reffed in favour of the home team. He could be a good referee in years to come but his record doesn't lie.

Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

Chunky just posted on another thread. Funny how Phil and Chunky arrive at the same time......

PhilBB wrote:

Notch wrote:Thought the referee had a good game, got all the big calls right. Cardiff were also good opponents, came with a very good tactical kicking game and they really frustrated us and controlled the game in the first half with that wind advantage. They were the better team for the first 40 in truth. Also, despite two real moments of individual indiscipline that cost them very dearly indeed, they hardly conceded any kickable penalties all night. Wonder how that game would have went if they hadn't gone and committed those silly yellow card offences- they could have snuck it.

Marshall's try should never have been awarded because of the illegal clear out before hand. Fish should never have been penalised for fairly challenging for the ball in the air.

From 35 minutes on, including those two key decisions, Whitehouse totally favoured Ulster. He got the calls very wrong. He got the Turnball call wrong and had to be 'guided' by the TMO.

Not issuing a card for either of Ulster's late challenge on the kicker was also a crucial decision that favoured the home team.

As expected, Whitehouse reffed in favour of the home team. He could be a good referee in years to come but his record doesn't lie.

You've become a parody Phil, he favoured Ulster but only after the 35min mark? Was that to cover his tracks or because the IRFU told him to do it that way?

How many good turnovers were Ulster denied by the ref throughout the game? The Fish call while harsh is understandable considering he was easily outjumped and was coming from so far away and didn't one of the semi final refs require guidance at the weekend from the TMO?

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

There were some complaints over the referee performance in Scarlets' WIN over Munster.

Munchkin wrote:Chunky just posted on another thread. Funny how Phil and Chunky arrive at the same time......

Yet it's the Welsh minority that are driving the loony conspiracy theories right?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Chunky just posted on another thread. Funny how Phil and Chunky arrive at the same time......

Yet it's the Welsh minority that are driving the loony conspiracy theories right?

A minority of one, perhaps?

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

There were some complaints over the referee performance in Scarlets' WIN over Munster.

I know. He's an inexperienced ref, but from what I understand was consistent in his officiating. The constant ref blaming is ridiculous. Not even happy when they win!!

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

There were some complaints over the referee performance in Scarlets' WIN over Munster.

I know. He's an inexperienced ref, but from what I understand was consistent in his officiating. The constant ref blaming is ridiculous. Not even happy when they win!!

I watched the game and thought he was inconsistent. The TMO was also poor having made an incorrect call on Conway's try in my view, seeing as a player needs to have control of the ball and the full back did not. It was a top of the table clash and giving the reins to a homer ref is unacceptable. The standard of ref's in the league has been atrocious for years and that's a fact, and what's worrying is that it doesn't seem to be getting better. Why only the Welsh carped at on here for pointing this out I don't know.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

There were some complaints over the referee performance in Scarlets' WIN over Munster.

I know. He's an inexperienced ref, but from what I understand was consistent in his officiating. The constant ref blaming is ridiculous. Not even happy when they win!!

I watched the game and thought he was inconsistent. The TMO was also poor having made an incorrect call on Conway's try in my view, seeing as a player needs to have control of the ball and the full back did not. It was a top of the table clash and giving the reins to a homer ref is unacceptable. The standard of ref's in the league has been atrocious for years and that's a fact, and what's worrying is that it doesn't seem to be getting better. Why only the Welsh carped at on here for pointing this out I don't know.

I didn't watch it. Just reading the views of others really, and match report. By consistent, I mean consistently poor for both teams.

Don't agree about the standard of reffing for this league. For the most part the reffing has been fine. Sometimes even good. Sometimes not so good. No different to other leagues. Watched a bit of the Leicester v Quins game. The reffing wasn't great in that either, and I think Quins could have a gripe in a possible penalty try not being awarded. I do have the odd gripe at a ref, but for the vast majority of games, teams lose because they haven't been good enough, or smart enough, on the day, and I think the vast majority of the moaning about refs is generally a one-eyed strop, and completely unfair on the officials.

Having said the above; I'm really not a fan of the TMO. I would agree that is an issue that needs looked at.

Players don't need control of the ball for it to be a try. Any downward pressure is good enough.

I watched Cantebury V Aukland on Saturday morning and the ref in that game was brilliant, after watching the ref in the Scarlets and Munster game, there was a world of difference between the two.

Why certain factions on this site refuse to accept this is beggars belief.

Course he was. He was super dooper. Better than the worlds best refs. In fact people watch his games to watch him. People are awed by his awesomeness. Joyed by his joy. Titillated by his.....

Anyway, LD, what are you doing here at this time? Working late?

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

There were some complaints over the referee performance in Scarlets' WIN over Munster.

I know. He's an inexperienced ref, but from what I understand was consistent in his officiating. The constant ref blaming is ridiculous. Not even happy when they win!!

I watched the game and thought he was inconsistent. The TMO was also poor having made an incorrect call on Conway's try in my view, seeing as a player needs to have control of the ball and the full back did not. It was a top of the table clash and giving the reins to a homer ref is unacceptable. The standard of ref's in the league has been atrocious for years and that's a fact, and what's worrying is that it doesn't seem to be getting better. Why only the Welsh carped at on here for pointing this out I don't know.

I didn't watch it. Just reading the views of others really, and match report. By consistent, I mean consistently poor for both teams.

Don't agree about the standard of reffing for this league. For the most part the reffing has been fine. Sometimes even good. Sometimes not so good. No different to other leagues. Watched a bit of the Leicester v Quins game. The reffing wasn't great in that either, and I think Quins could have a gripe in a possible penalty try not being awarded. I do have the odd gripe at a ref, but for the vast majority of games, teams lose because they haven't been good enough, or smart enough, on the day, and I think the vast majority of the moaning about refs is generally a one-eyed strop, and completely unfair on the officials.

Having said the above; I'm really not a fan of the TMO. I would agree that is an issue that needs looked at.

He was poor all around, but as a neutral spectator I did get the impression he was out to do Munster a big favour at times. And yes he was an Irish referee.

I've watched this league for years and the refereeing is the worst I've ever seen at elite level. It's something that holds the pro12 back IMO.

The ref for the Ulster game wasn't great, but he was a lot better than Conway. His decision were also actually consistent for both teams.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

There were some complaints over the referee performance in Scarlets' WIN over Munster.

I know. He's an inexperienced ref, but from what I understand was consistent in his officiating. The constant ref blaming is ridiculous. Not even happy when they win!!

I watched the game and thought he was inconsistent. The TMO was also poor having made an incorrect call on Conway's try in my view, seeing as a player needs to have control of the ball and the full back did not. It was a top of the table clash and giving the reins to a homer ref is unacceptable. The standard of ref's in the league has been atrocious for years and that's a fact, and what's worrying is that it doesn't seem to be getting better. Why only the Welsh carped at on here for pointing this out I don't know.

I didn't watch it. Just reading the views of others really, and match report. By consistent, I mean consistently poor for both teams.

Don't agree about the standard of reffing for this league. For the most part the reffing has been fine. Sometimes even good. Sometimes not so good. No different to other leagues. Watched a bit of the Leicester v Quins game. The reffing wasn't great in that either, and I think Quins could have a gripe in a possible penalty try not being awarded. I do have the odd gripe at a ref, but for the vast majority of games, teams lose because they haven't been good enough, or smart enough, on the day, and I think the vast majority of the moaning about refs is generally a one-eyed strop, and completely unfair on the officials.

Having said the above; I'm really not a fan of the TMO. I would agree that is an issue that needs looked at.

He was poor all around, but as a neutral spectator I did get the impression he was out to do Munster a big favour at times. And yes he was an Irish referee.

I've watched this league for years and the refereeing is the worst I've ever seen at elite level. It's something that holds the pro12 back IMO.

The ref for the Ulster game wasn't great, but he was a lot better than Conway. His decision were also actually consistent for both teams.

I think probably all of us on here watch a lot of rugby

Sometimes I think we see what we expect to see. That our view is distorted sometimes by preconception. That's not a dig at you mikey. It's just a generalisation, and one that I apply to myself.

I can honestly say that I don't think there's any real difference in the standard of reffing in any of the bigger leagues. I am more likely to take the hump with a ref in an Ulster game, or an Ireland game, but I understand how my own bias plays on my thinking process.

Can't say I remember much of the ref in the Ulster game. Maybe I was too busy taking the hump with Ulster

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Fair play, you have the comprehension skills of an 8 year old.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Yeah, it's the refs fault.

Such a numpty.

Yep, yet again it's the ref's fault when a Welsh outfit loses. Absolutely nothing to do with how they played etc.
Numpty +1

And another.

What a special place this is

marty2086 wrote:

You've become a parody Phil, he favoured Ulster but only after the 35min mark? Was that to cover his tracks or because the IRFU told him to do it that way?

How many good turnovers were Ulster denied by the ref throughout the game? The Fish call while harsh is understandable considering he was easily outjumped and was coming from so far away and didn't one of the semi final refs require guidance at the weekend from the TMO?

Referees are clearly influenced by many factors and Whitehouse's record highlights that. The second question you asked is in keeping with the childlike approach from many on here but the third question ignores the fact that he denied many from both sides.

However, ALL of the big 50/50 calls went the home team's way. It's pretty much the norm in rugby nowadays.

Munchkin wrote:For the most part the reffing has been fine. Sometimes even good.

Yen your off field knowledge is equalled by your on field knowledge, no doubt compounded by Ulster's home record. Your frankly ridiculous post about 'not being happy with the ref when they win' shows your limited capacity and schoolboy approach to assessing referees.

I've come across many dumb folk on line but I've a new top ten entrant.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

You've become a parody Phil, he favoured Ulster but only after the 35min mark? Was that to cover his tracks or because the IRFU told him to do it that way?

How many good turnovers were Ulster denied by the ref throughout the game? The Fish call while harsh is understandable considering he was easily outjumped and was coming from so far away and didn't one of the semi final refs require guidance at the weekend from the TMO?

Referees are clearly influenced by many factors and Whitehouse's record highlights that. The second question you asked is in keeping with the childlike approach from many on here but the third question ignores the fact that he denied many from both sides.

However, ALL of the big 50/50 calls went the home team's way. It's pretty much the norm in rugby nowadays.

Its not childlike its bemusement at what you actually believe to be true, 50/50 calls went Ulsters way? At least 3 times Ulster got the second man in and over the ball only to be penalised for holding on. That's an 80/20 call going against the home side

Your whole argument is typical of the woe is the Welsh approach taken by a few on here

"The second question you asked is in keeping with the childlike approach from many on here"


Time for a long, thoughtful look in the mirror if it's peurility you're looking for.
As you're talking about growing lists we can add you to the one LD and Chunky inhabit.

Blaming a referee for your team's loss in such a way is childish, schoolboyish, peurile. Try looking at your team and ask the questions as to why they keep losing instead of looking for external factors.

[quote="PhilBB"]

Munchkin wrote:For the most part the reffing has been fine. Sometimes even good.

Yen your off field knowledge is equalled by your on field knowledge, no doubt compounded by Ulster's home record. Your frankly ridiculous post about 'not being happy with the ref when they win' shows your limited capacity and schoolboy approach to assessing referees.

I've come across many dumb folk on line but I've a new top ten entrant.[/quote]

This is mature and unchildlike then?