RWC FINAL - Referee Confirmed

As we all thought - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3290028/Nigel-Owens-named-referee-weekend-s-Rugby-World-Cup-final.html

Congratulations on the win NZ!

It will be a free for all at every scrum/ruck/maul.

The best man for the job. Lets hope he as a cracker of a game.

Lucky it's not Barnes.

Owens hasn't impressed me this RWC and for me he's moving into Steve Walsh territory with his strutting and inflated ego! -just my opinion of course.

RubyGuby wrote:Owens hasn't impressed me this RWC and for me he's moving into Steve Walsh territory with his strutting and inflated ego! -just my opinion of course.

He has never, ever impressed me. He has never reffed a game properly. All for the "spirit" of the game. BOLLOX.

Cyril wrote:Congratulations on the win NZ!

McCaw will be very happy.

Bet hes got some top quips lined up ready.

I disagree with the negative tons of earlier posters. I have always rated him and to those doubting him now would ask 'who better for an Oz v NZ Final?'. Yes, he makes mistakes - just as all 30 players do - but no-one reasonably can accuse him of previous bias. He'll be acutely aware of the hype - McCaw's 'invisibility cloak', Oz flankers' position at the breakdown etc etc but will try to let a potentially crackerjack of a game flow. And I like the way he warns players almost with regret in his voice rather than anger. No-one better. Would anyone here seriously prefer Barnes or Joubert, or even one of the French refs who, while technically sound, appear to me to struggle a bit with their English language when the heat is really on.

I'd rather see Barnes reffing than Owens any day of the week.

LordDowlais wrote:I'd rather see Barnes reffing than Owens any day of the week.

Got the bite

LordDowlais wrote:I'd rather see Barnes reffing than Owens any day of the week.

I dont think it matters which one does it, For a ref to be given the appointment is an award for his performances.

I'd say Kiwis and Aussies will just take who they are given, and in the meantime just concentrate on things like their teams preparation.

Happy with Owens, should be a good game. Barnes is pretty good these days but I still get the impression he relishes making a big contentious call that will decide the outcome of a game.

Owens is a superb ref and I'm delighted that he's been granted the final. Recognition for an excellent career thus far.

The two best teams in the world with ball in hand and the best ref in the world. Awesome.

SimonofSurrey wrote:I disagree with the negative tons of earlier posters. I have always rated him and to those doubting him now would ask 'who better for an Oz v NZ Final?'. Yes, he makes mistakes - just as all 30 players do - but no-one reasonably can accuse him of previous bias. He'll be acutely aware of the hype - McCaw's 'invisibility cloak', Oz flankers' position at the breakdown etc etc but will try to let a potentially crackerjack of a game flow. And I like the way he warns players almost with regret in his voice rather than anger. No-one better. Would anyone here seriously prefer Barnes or Joubert, or even one of the French refs who, while technically sound, appear to me to struggle a bit with their English language when the heat is really on.

[quote="offload"][quote="SimonofSurrey"]I disagree with the negative tons of earlier posters. I have always rated him and to those doubting him now would ask 'who better for an Oz v NZ Final?'. Yes, he makes mistakes - just as all 30 players do - but no-one reasonably can accuse him of previous bias. He'll be acutely aware of the hype - McCaw's 'invisibility cloak', Oz flankers' position at the breakdown etc etc but will try to let a potentially crackerjack of a game flow. And I like the way he warns players almost with regret in his voice rather than anger. No-one better. Would anyone here seriously prefer Barnes or Joubert, or even one of the French refs who, while technically sound, appear to me to struggle a bit with their English language when the heat is really on.
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I am not an Owens fan. I prefer my refs not to pick and choose which laws they wish to police, and I do believe he is starting to behave as if he is the personality the crowd wish to see. It is said that you know the ref is having a good game as you did not notice him, Owens used to fit this category.

His style could though lead to an open game - though if he allows the back rows carte blanche at the breakdown we could actually have a very ugly game.

I do not feel as if the standard of reffing is at an all time high - far too many average to poor refs out there at the moment, which is exacerbated by teams increased propensity to try and cheat.

I honestly don't understand the criticisms of Owens. So the guy's got a big personality. Where's the victim? If World Rugby hadn't decided to mike up referees and strap cameras to their chests, nobody would have the slightest clue how and in what way any referee speaks to the players.

He is a strong referee and ultimately all the players want is consistency in knowing what the result will be if they do a particular thing. Cheika gave an interview to the Australian saying he would be delighted with Owens. If anyone can actually provide any evidence of NO favouring a higher profile team, I would be very interested to see it.

Some familiarity breeding contempt here?

Worst Pro12 ref but best ref in the World and two best sides in the World.... it's a natural. It's going to be a stormer of a game.

All idiots who want to grimace and moan and whine please go to the next room and lock yourselves into it until the middle of the following week.

I like Owens - he takes no nonsense from the players but has a good feel for the game.  He never loses control.  I particularly like the way he puts players in their place

Thanks to those who supported my support for Owens. I like Barnes too but I'm afraid he never will get another high profile NZ game, as much for his own sake as anyone else's sensitivities. Owens will give what he sees and explain what and why he's given as he goes along. Lord knows, if any teams are capable of thinking on the hood and adapting to play the ref on the day, it's surely our friends from Australia and New Zealand. Best choice therefore on both raw ability and to fit the context of this game and these opponents.

We have a World cup final with 2 teams that like to move the ball about and attack with the most free flowing official in the game, it could be a great spectacle and a perfect advertisement for the game, lets hope that's what we get.

George Carlin wrote:I honestly don't understand the criticisms of Owens. So the guy's got a big personality. Where's the victim? If World Rugby hadn't decided to mike up referees and strap cameras to their chests, nobody would have the slightest clue how and in what way any referee speaks to the players.

He is a strong referee and ultimately all the players want is consistency in knowing what the result will be if they do a particular thing. Cheika gave an interview to the Australian saying he would be delighted with Owens. If anyone can actually provide any evidence of NO favouring a higher profile team, I would be very interested to see it.

Some familiarity breeding contempt here?

I'm with you on this, mate. Owens is a good referee who has earned the opportunity to officiate the biggest match in the sports biggest event. Every ref has their hits and misses, and I think he gets most of it right. I also think Owens seems to be sincere in wanting a decent match. If he has a good one-liner to help keep things under control, then even better. I think he is hundreds of miles from Steve Walsh who clearly has/had major issues and should never have been officiating pro sport. Owens seems an OK bloke.

There are other guys who could run this match - Wayne Barnes, if for no other reason than to see those slightly nervous beads of sweat on the brows of the ABs. Or maybe one of the Frenchmen who no one can really understand.

Ultimately, I would pay a cool million to hear Owens to McCaw "Richard, get your bum and that foolish buzz cut haircut of yours back onside or you are going for a ten minute rest."
Even more, I would pay two million to hear Wayne Barnes say: "NZ - forwards pass"
OK, it doesn't take much to amuse me, but Owens is the man, let's give him room to succeed, which I expect he will do.

Sorry but it's not justified, i'm really not a big fan of him but Garces has been the best ref in this world cup.

VinceWLB wrote:Sorry but it's not justified, i'm really not a big fan of him but Garces has been the best ref in this world cup.

Agreed. And there's nothing wrong with his English!

The bigger talking point for me is that John Lacey's been given the whistle for the third-place playoff match on Friday. I thought it was a joke when someone told me.

Garces for me as well but I think Owens's higher profile has clinched it. He is without doubt a very good ref but I think he was better 2 years ago when his profile and involvement in each game was a little lower. I think he will be overly pedantic and not let things flow as some are suggesting on Saturday. It is splitting hairs though but I like to critically look at his performances. He communicates well but I think he needs to be a little more detached from the players. I know some will see that differently.

Somebody on her pointed out something about Owens earlier in the tournament.

It's the way he warns sides at the breakdown 'no hands, it's a ruck, get back 7', the players ignore him and then he after about 10 seconds he says, 'turnover good!'.

Letting a game flow can also be interpreted as not being in control and making the breakdown a complete mess. Not blowing your whistle doesn't make you an effective referee.

Still, it's the 'Nige Show' where the rugby takes second billing. I'm sure he'll come out with some quip to ensure he's remembered for that rather than his reffing.

Cyril I'll bet you didn't mind him letting the game flow when your boys were after the necessary cricket score on that final day of the last 6Ns?

Nigel was letting that game 'flow' so much it was positively comical how much both sides got into an obsessional bout of try-line fever (pity about the defences!!!)

But it was Nigel giving England its shot at the title that'd they'd scarcely have had under another ref.

Not sure about that Fly, we were quite good that day and it was points difference rather than scored which mattered. I don't mind Owens he is a bit relaxed about players straying off their feet but you know you can get away with more and he's generally consistent even if england had a few rough decisions from him against NZ recently.

Had he been a more pedantic ref on the breakdown that game wouldn't have been so wild 7&1/2.

Owens allowed the 'controlled chaos' game to exist. Not many NH refs would.

Yup, he lets you get away with more. Generally consistently not bothering about the actual laws for both sides though!

Oh yeah...freeform laws for both sides

Seriously, I like his style of reffing. But you have to be hot to trot! If you're off the pace of a fast game and he's reffing, you're in serious trouble.

I do like him. I honestly think Barnes has been a little better in the last year but they're both top refs and given Owens form in the last 4 years it's fully deserved.

Very average referee. This article is well worth a read. It would prbably not get published in the Northern Hemisphere

"When playing outside Australia under Nigel Owens, the Wallabies have not won in six attempts"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/73400315/mark-reason-nigel-owens-will-referee-the-rugby-world-cup-final-or-will-he

I like Nigel Owens..but I'm getting sick of this constant bigging up of his wise cracks.

Its almost as bad as the feckin honey badger...wow that guy gets on my t$ts!!!!

Chunky Norwich wrote:
"When playing outside Australia under Nigel Owens, the Wallabies have not won in six attempts"

Dear oh dear, that's a bit of a desperate stat. How many have they won at home with him reffing? Who were the opponents when playing away?

Chunky Norwich wrote:Very average referee. This article is well worth a read. It would prbably not get published in the Northern Hemisphere

"When playing outside Australia under Nigel Owens, the Wallabies have not won in six attempts"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/73400315/mark-reason-nigel-owens-will-referee-the-rugby-world-cup-final-or-will-he

Great article from a British journalist and All Blackphobe Mark Reason. I'm sure it will get published up north.

I think he paints the picture he wants to paint through subjective analysis and selection of statistics. Australia and NZ are teams that struggle with high penalty counts relative to their opposition.

A fairer comment to make is Owens favoured the home side in Australian matches. In the last 4 years he's refereed Australia 9 times. The home side has always won (whether it's Australia or their opponents). He's only refereed Australia against quality opposition (i.e. NZ, South Africa, France and Argentina). I'm not sure I'd say anything without better analysis.

He's refereed NZ 10 times since 2011, NZ have won all of them. No surprise given they've only lost 3 matches in that time. It's worth noting that some of those games they've been at a significant disadvantage in terms of penalty count and/or players binned.

In my opinion NZ owe their record due to their ability to score tries as much as anything else. They beat SA on the back of 13/6 penalty count because they scored 2 tries and drop goal. Australia have the same ability. I think the more interesting question is why are the penalty counts in international rugby so favorable to the likes of England, Wales and France.

[/quote] I think the more interesting question is why are the penalty counts in international rugby so favorable to the likes of  England, Wales and France.[/quote]

Are they?

2006
Italy 18 Australia 25

2007
NZ 26 Australia 12,
Australia 55 v Fiji 12 (RWC)

2010
Australia 27 England 17

2011
USA 5 Australia 67 (RWC)

2012
NZ 22 Australia 0,
Australia 26 SA 19,
France 33 Australia 6

2013
Australia 14 Argentina 13

2014
SA 28 Australia 10
Argentina 21 Australia 17,
France 29 Australia 26

2015
Australia 24 SA 20
NZ 41 Australia 13

blackcanelion wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Very average referee. This article is well worth a read. It would prbably not get published in the Northern Hemisphere

"When playing outside Australia under Nigel Owens, the Wallabies have not won in six attempts"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/73400315/mark-reason-nigel-owens-will-referee-the-rugby-world-cup-final-or-will-he

Great article from a British journalist and All Blackphobe Mark Reason. I'm sure it will get published up north.

I think he paints the picture he wants to paint through subjective analysis and selection of statistics. Australia and NZ are teams that struggle with high penalty counts relative to their opposition.

A fairer comment to make is Owens favoured the home side in Australian matches. In the last 4 years he's refereed Australia 9 times. The home side has always won (whether it's Australia or their opponents). He's only refereed Australia against quality opposition (i.e. NZ, South Africa, France and Argentina). I'm not sure I'd say anything without better analysis.

He's refereed NZ 10 times since 2011, NZ have won all of them. No surprise given they've only lost 3 matches in that time. It's worth noting that some of those games they've been at a significant disadvantage in terms of penalty count and/or players binned.

In my opinion NZ owe their record due to their ability to score tries as much as anything else. They beat SA on the back of 13/6 penalty count because they scored 2 tries and drop goal. Australia have the same ability. I think the more interesting question is why are the penalty counts in international rugby so favorable to the likes of  England, Wales and France.

That's a good post, cheers. However, I think you've taken it a bit too personally. The article is a critique of Nigel Owens. And how absurdly overrated he is as an rugby union referee. Not a dig at any southern hemisphere rugby at all.

Sorry, it's more a dig at Mark Reason and his standard formula of article writing. I also think the low penalty count for a team like France is interesting. I think they've had 5 games in the last 4 years, where the difference between their penalty/free kick count and the opposition is greater than 2. That compares with NZ (21) and Australia (24).

Mark Reason is laughed at constantly. People don't even read his crap anymore and just go to the comments section to call him a d*ckhead.

Maybe the best compromise is for Nige to referee the first half and Wayne Barnes to referee the second half. That will balance out any silly notions of favouritism.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup, he lets you get away with more. Generally consistently not bothering about the actual laws for both sides though!

The fear is that it won't be for both sides.

doctor_grey wrote:Maybe the best compromise is for Nige to referee the first half and Wayne Barnes to referee the second half.  That will balance out any silly notions of favouritism.

I think if that was the case people on here would want to know why Owens was given the first half when clearly the most important half would be the 2nd.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup, he lets you get away with more. Generally consistently not bothering about the actual laws for both sides though!

The fear is that it won't be for both sides.

I'm baffled, all this vitriol for the ref for not whistling 7 times per ruck, 11 times per scrum and reviewing 18 angles from the TMO whenever theres a decision to be made?!

You all realise that the breakdown and scrums are meant to be contested? The southern hemisphere have trends of subtly sealing off attacking rucks, and working their way on the wrong side in D, Nigel Owens is the canniest ref around when when it comes to the breakdown.

It's pretty much deserved, and I for one congratulate him, he's probably been the best ref in the world for 3/4 years now, everyone involved in the game loves the guy, and games are regularly high uality when he's in charge.

Barnes has been good last 18 months, Garces has had a few cracking games recently, even Poite and Jackson have looked ok recently too!

Realistically Joubert has shat the bed a few times recently, starting with 2011 final, a few 4N games and then the Scotland daylight robbery, aside from Joubert, Clancy, and Doyle I wouldve been ok with most of the others taking control of the final.

RubyGuby wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Maybe the best compromise is for Nige to referee the first half and Wayne Barnes to referee the second half.  That will balance out any silly notions of favouritism.

I think if that was the case people on here would want to know why Owens was given the first half when clearly the most important half would be the 2nd.

Never thought of that - it is certainly a point worth starting a thread about - and then blaming the English, Welsh, Irish (we can leave the Scots out for now, no offense to anyone) of bias.

doctor_grey wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Maybe the best compromise is for Nige to referee the first half and Wayne Barnes to referee the second half.  That will balance out any silly notions of favouritism.

I think if that was the case people on here would want to know why Owens was given the first half when clearly the most important half would be the 2nd.

Never thought of that - it is certainly a point worth starting a thread about - and then blaming the English, Welsh, Irish (we can leave the Scots out for now, no offense to anyone) of bias.  

Grrrr - offence taken. You should know this about us Scots - we love to take offence. It's in our DNA. We are at our most comfortable when taking offence.

No longer shall we be marginalised by Tory austerity loving, Westminster expenses grabbing, oil stealing, nuclear weapon hugging, public school boys such as yourself. FREEDOM!!!



P.S. Don't respond with facts. Facts are strictly optional.

Mark Reason is a polemicist I'm afraid and an extremely weak analyst and wordsmith to boot. Making the same joke four times in 600 words that McCaw is in charge of matches with Owens assisting him does not amount to either insight or pathos.

Perhaps if Australia had played better rugby in their past Bledisloe matches, they would not have had to 'rely' on Owens to win, whatever the hell that actually may mean in practice. I personally think that Jaco Peyper is the best referee in the game and is the closest to the referees that I really loved growing up - David Bishop and Clive Norling.

However, regardless of claims of partisanship, the games that Owens referees are both (a) attractive to watch and (b) consistent in the decisions which have been made. That's good enough for me. The rest of the furore about Owens is like smelling someone else's farts - both pointless and generally unpleasant.