Pro 12: Edinburgh Rugby vs Munster, 7th November

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Edinburgh Rugby v Munster Rugby
7th November 2015
17:15
BT Murrayfield

TV: Alba & Sky Sports apparently

Referee: David Wilkinson, (IRFU,34th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

Edinburgh Form

Last 3 Matches
31/10/15 Connacht 14 - 9 Edinburgh
24/10/15 Zebre 19 - 11 Edinburgh
16/10/15 Edinburgh 16 - 10 Ulster

Munster Form

Last 3 Matches
30/10/15 Munster 32 - 28 Ulster
23/10/15 Scarlets 25 - 22 Munster
17/10/15 Munster 35 - 27 Blues

Teams

Edinburgh Rugby


15 Blair Kinghorn
14 Damien Hoyland
13 Will Helu
12 Matt Scott
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
9 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford
3 WP Nel
4 Anton Bresler
5 Alex Toolis
6 Mike Coman (captain)
7 Hamish Watson
8 Cornell Du Preez

Substitutes
16 Neil Cochrane
17 Rory Sutherland
18 John Andress
19 Roddy Grant
20 Nasi Manu
21 Sean Kennedy
22 Andries Strauss
23 Dougie Fife

Munster Rugby


Simon Zebo;
Gerhard van den Heever,
Keith Earls,
Francis Saili,
Ronan O'Mahony;
Ian Keatley,
Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne,
Duncan Casey,
John Ryan;
Donnacha Ryan,
Dave Foley;
Dave O'Callaghan,
Jack O'Donoghue,
CJ Stander - capt.

Replacements:
Niall Scannell,
James Cronin,
Mario Sagario,
Robin Copeland,
Jordan Coghlan,
Tomás O'Leary,
Rory Scannell,
Denis Hurley

SHC is having a shocker, get him off. What on earth was he thinking with that kick. He is going backwards at the moment

RDW_Scotland wrote:Why are we suddenly getting so penalised so much in the scrum?

Because Nel has gone off!

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Why are we suddenly getting so penalised so much in the scrum?

Because Nel has gone off!

Nel got penalised just before coming off too, i think Dickinson is tiring and Munster's subs had a big impact.

Throwing the ball about aimlessly

Offside line has vanished

Jeez man. What happened lol

All that effort and we tried a drop goal with no distance from the opposition???

Gutting.

Our basic skills just weren't good enough!

SHC looking very rusty, for me the difference between the 2 teams.

That was painful to watch. Edinburgh completely butcher an overlap and play disconnected pick and go rugby before trying and failing to set-up a simple drop goal opportunity in front of the pitch. I mean, that was really abysmal attack there. Terrible. No-one organising, not standing deep enough to drop the goal- all over the place really. Keystone cops, they'd been gifted the win with that intercept...

tigertattie wrote:All that effort and we tried a drop goal with no distance from the opposition???

awful game management - we were complete headless chickens all game

I needed a Munster win for a treble to come through. Thanks for nearly giving me a cardiac arrest at the end.

2ndtimeround wrote:SHC looking very rusty, for me the difference between the 2 teams.

He had a shocker and will slip off Scotlands radar very quickly if he plays like that to many more times. His passing and decision making were awful. What was he thinking with the drop goal, it was never on, not in a million years.

That's two weeks in a row that Munster have made really bad decisions at the death. Last week they kicked the ball out with seconds still left on the clock, nearly cost them the game. This week they don't kick the ball out seconds after time finished, and it nearly cost them the game.

Exciting finish though  

RDW_Scotland wrote:

tigertattie wrote:All that effort and we tried a drop goal with no distance from the opposition???

awful game management - we were complete headless chickens all game

Still baffled by that ending.

urine poor organization. No sense of communication. SHC about 5 yards back, no blockers in place & Al Dickinson in at scrum half

The lack of planning at Edinburgh on the FH front could really end up costing them this season. How can a professional rugby team not have a recognised 10, it is bonkers. It is a shame really as others parts of their game are really coming along. Du Preez looked back in the grove today and I was impressed with both wingers. Unfortunately they are likely to spend a long time out there waiting for ball!

Could we interest you east coast chaps in a Meatball? Small, barely used, one careful owner and actually knows how to drop a goal?

George Carlin wrote:Could we interest you east coast chaps in a Meatball? Small, barely used, one careful owner and actually knows how to drop a goal?

Might not be a stupid idea ;-) He needs gametime and Edinburgh need a 10

I thought it wasn't so much Hidalgo or Tonks fault individually - it was the two of them simply did not click at all - neither reading the others intentions. Absolute shambles as a result with knock ons and missed passes galore
Edinburghs Forwards looked good overall and Scott looked sharp but Edinburgh need to sort out the halfbacks.

TJ wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Could we interest you east coast chaps in a Meatball? Small, barely used, one careful owner and actually knows how to drop a goal?

Might not be a stupid idea ;-)  He needs gametime and Edinburgh need a 10

All joking aside, he would be perfect for the way Edinburgh play. Pepper the corner flags and let that massive brutal pack rumble over the line. Tom Brown and Will Helu are good kick chase exponents and it cuts out the dross Edinburgh currently seems to have in midfield from getting in the way.

Everyone's a winner.

It does seem mad that Solomons doesn't have a recognised partner for Clyne. How long has he been the manager. Tom Heathcote played in a major part in Wuss' win at the weekend. Does make you wonder what might have been.

I'm really annoyed by last night, because it showed exactly what we've always known - we are utterly clueless with the ball. It was getting embarrassing last night!

The period from around 70 minutes was schoolboy like rugby - no structure no plan, random offloading and no go forward.

To give them the benefit of the doubt, this was their first game back all together - Glasgow also struggled at times yesterday - and most of the units were playing together for Edinburgh for the the first time this season.

And it certainly showed.

There were some positives - Scott and Helu showed glimpses of what their partnership could do, and both wingers were excellent. Brown especially is coming into great form.

I think Burleigh would have made a difference - he brings a level of composure and a good kicking game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

I think Burleigh would have made a difference - he brings a level of composure and a good kicking game.

Well it could hardly have made it worse!

Depressed by this. Just watched the Wuss highlights and Heathcote and Grove look better than anything we have at 10 and 13, plus Ryan has them playing some nice rugby.

I'll never understand why grove hasn't been brought to Edinburgh seeing we completely lack decent centres (Scott's lack of form)

I'd very much say that Scott Grove would be a good pairing and would fight it out with Dunbar Bennett for international honours

PS, despite being in the losing side, Ally Hogg again playing well for the Geordies

Watched the highlights again.

I knew that there was a reason I selected a muppet as Edinburgh's team rep this week. Entirely prophetic.

Solomons really is paying for lack of consistent selection in the backline. Forget about Tonks at 10. He's passable cover, but that's it. Samwise and Burleigh could be really good. They just need time together. Why not just leave them there for god's sake? It's not as though all of the combinations haven't been tried by now?

Or is the problem that Kinghorn is looking good so Tonks' spot at 15 (his correct position imho) is at threat?

Burleigh and Beard were injured, so it was probably our strongest backline available.

And I don't think we should be criticising Solomons for rotating his team when we usually criticise him for not doing so!

tigertattie wrote:I'll never understand why grove hasn't been brought to Edinburgh seeing we completely lack decent centres (Scott's lack of form)

I'd very much say that Scott Grove would be a good pairing and would fight it out with Dunbar Bennett for international honours

PS, despite being in the losing side, Ally Hogg again playing well for the Geordies

Grove was at Edinburgh for a spell a few seasons ago but, like Heathcote last year, for whatever reason it didn't work out and he wasn't selected much. He's not been very lucky with Scottish selectors as probably he would have deserved a higher number of caps than he got, being overlooked for the likes of Di Luca instead. Obviously both he and Heathcote played well this weekend, last year the Edinburgh experience seemed to drain Heathcote of all confidence and he couldn't even kick his goals which is usually not a problem for him.

MacKnocked-on wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I'll never understand why grove hasn't been brought to Edinburgh seeing we completely lack decent centres (Scott's lack of form)

I'd very much say that Scott Grove would be a good pairing and would fight it out with Dunbar Bennett for international honours

PS, despite being in the losing side, Ally Hogg again playing well for the Geordies

Grove was at Edinburgh for a spell a few seasons ago but, like Heathcote last year, for whatever reason it didn't work out and he wasn't selected much. He's not been very lucky with Scottish selectors as probably he would have deserved a higher number of caps than he got, being overlooked for the likes of Di Luca instead. Obviously both he and Heathcote played well this weekend, last year the Edinburgh experience seemed to drain Heathcote of all confidence and he couldn't even kick his goals which is usually not a problem for him.

Grove came at a time when we already had an abundance of centres - De Luca, Cairns, Houston, King etc. I think he was only brought to Edinburgh because the Scotland selectors were interested in him and he wasn't getting much gametime elsewhere.

He certainly didn't do anything of note at Edinburgh though.

Heathcoat's style would fit in very well with the current Edinburgh team but he really was poor when he was with us.

We can't start drinking the Kool Aid about Grove just yet.

Scoring 2 against an off colour Falcons side in the p!ssing rain is not the same as regularly dotting them down against the bigger sides in the league. Would anyone really choose Grove over Duncan Taylor who plays every week in a very successful and well organised team? I must confess that I wouldn't.

George Carlin wrote:We can't start drinking the Kool Aid about Grove just yet.

Scoring 2 against an off colour Falcons side in the p!ssing rain is not the same as regularly dotting them down against the bigger sides in the league. Would anyone really choose Grove over Duncan Taylor who plays every week in a very successful and well organised team? I must confess that I wouldn't.

I'm not saying Grove will (or should) figure for Scotland again, his time has probably come and gone but I applaud him for still making himself available for A games in recent seasons when others might have declined the call up. Taylor is ahead of him in the pecking order but ,solid as he is, he doesn't seem to offer too much in a creative sense so I would say that beyond Bennett the choice at 13 isn't ideal currently.

George Carlin wrote:Solomons really is paying for lack of consistent selection in the backline. Forget about Tonks at 10. He's passable cover, but that's it. Samwise and Burleigh could be really good. They just need time together. Why not just leave them there for god's sake? It's not as though all of the combinations haven't been tried by now?

I'd disagree with that GC. Burleigh is a good 12, but he's not a flyhalf. He doesn't have a the game management skills to control a game. His kicking from hand can be at times terrible and it's his default setting, that and the little jump he keeps doing that doesn't actually offer us anything (sorry it annoys me).

I'd be happy with him and Scott fighting it out for the 12 shirt, but he's not a flyhalf. I also haven't forgiven him for kicking the ball out of play twice from restarts in the final, but that's a different issue.

EWT Spoons wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Solomons really is paying for lack of consistent selection in the backline. Forget about Tonks at 10. He's passable cover, but that's it. Samwise and Burleigh could be really good. They just need time together. Why not just leave them there for god's sake? It's not as though all of the combinations haven't been tried by now?

I'd disagree with that GC.  Burleigh is a good 12, but he's not a flyhalf.  He doesn't have a the game management skills to control a game.  His kicking from hand can be at times terrible and it's his default setting, that and the little jump he keeps doing that doesn't actually offer us anything (sorry it annoys me).

I'd be happy with him and Scott fighting it out for the 12 shirt, but he's not a flyhalf.  I also haven't forgiven him for kicking the ball out of play twice from restarts in the final, but that's a different issue.

So it's settled. We'll deliver Weir by DHL tomorrow.

Don't worry, we'll make sure they remember to cut air holes in the cardboard box.

Did anyone see this?

Alan Solomons felt the penalty that beat his Edinburgh team against Munster was taken beyond the mark.

Stand-off Ian Keatley struck from just inside Edinburgh's half after prop John Andress had collapsed a scrum.

"If you look where that scrum is, and where the penalty was taken, there was definitely a metre taken there," the head coach told BBC Scotland.

"It looked to me that the ball, had it been taken from the right spot, would have gone under the bar."

As part of the Pro12's post-match review protocols, Solomons said he will "definitely" raise the issue.

Nothing in it. Watched the game back and this occurs about 66 mins in (I think), it's slightly further forward than where the ref has marked the pen, but it's a couple of feet if that.

George Carlin wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Solomons really is paying for lack of consistent selection in the backline. Forget about Tonks at 10. He's passable cover, but that's it. Samwise and Burleigh could be really good. They just need time together. Why not just leave them there for god's sake? It's not as though all of the combinations haven't been tried by now?

I'd disagree with that GC.  Burleigh is a good 12, but he's not a flyhalf.  He doesn't have a the game management skills to control a game.  His kicking from hand can be at times terrible and it's his default setting, that and the little jump he keeps doing that doesn't actually offer us anything (sorry it annoys me).

I'd be happy with him and Scott fighting it out for the 12 shirt, but he's not a flyhalf.  I also haven't forgiven him for kicking the ball out of play twice from restarts in the final, but that's a different issue.

So it's settled. We'll deliver Weir by DHL tomorrow.

Don't worry, we'll make sure they remember to cut air holes in the cardboard box.

So basically Edinburgh don't have a FH, other than Te Rure, who is injured. Yes that is what I thought and it is almost unbelievable!

Keatley nudges the ball forwards along the floor a few feet from the mark while the referee walked forwards to talk to the Edin front row. The ball cleared the bar by the same number of feet. Did anyone else see SHC being stamped on the chest after holding on to a leg in front of the ref after that? Lots of words to the ref to have a look, all ignored. Doesn't change Edinburgh's poor game management though.