Aviva Premiership - Round 4

by **LondonTiger** Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:20 am

First topic message reminder :

Current Positions

Team	Points
Saracens	13
Leicester	12
Exeter	11
Harlequins	9
Gloucester	9
Sale Sharks	9
Northampton	7
Wasps	5
Bath	5
Worcester	5
London Irish	0
Newcastle	0

Fixtures

Friday 6th November 2015

19:45 Harlequins v Sale Sharks Twickenham Stoop BT Sport

Both teams will arrive at the Stoop for the first of four televised fixtures with two wins so far and having beaten playoff teams from last season in round 3. Harlequins away win at the Rec was the more notable (Only two late tries saved Bath from what the commentator was, at 70 minutes, calling a total humiliation.), but Sale's ability to shut down the Saints attack should not be ignored. While not exactly a head-to-head it will be interesting to see how the main playmakers for each side, Care and Cipriani, fare. Care still, to me, looks to be searching for form and we shall see how he responds to his first home start as club captain. Cipriani will delight in thre presence of the TV cameras, and will be out to show that he shoudl have been at the RWC. Equally fascinating will be the back row battle. Sale will probably go with the two opensides as usual, and their experienced pairing will be a good test for whoever O'Shea deigns to select.
I struggle to se any result other than a win for Quins - but probably no TBP.

Saturday 7th November 2015

15:00 London Irish v Bath Rugby Madejski Stadium

Misfiring Bath will arrive in Reading desperate to kick start their season against winless Irish. London Irish were handed a terrible start to the season, facing four of last seasons top 5. As the season unfolds this may prove to be a blessing in disguise - probably better to try and bed in new players and methods against teams you expect to lose against rather than against teams youshould be beating. While the attack in general has so far not clicked for Irish, their rolling maul has been hugely effective. Add in players like Maitland (who surely will improve on last week) and Irish have the tools to upset Bath.
Bath are not playing well. Beaten by Quins and Wasps, their only wion was almost gifted to them by Exeter on the first weekend. The set piece is misfiring and they have been second best at the breakdown. Will be interesting to see if Francois Louw is rushed back into the side. they are creating opportunities though. Any number of times in the first half against Quins they worked the ball into the opposition 22 only to fall over when close to the line. A mix of poor hands and white line fever allowed the boys from Surrey to constantly repel them.
Should Bath play to their potential this could be a thumping win, however I have a sneaking feeling that Irish will be scrapping for everything and sneak a victory.

15:00 Worcester Warriors v Newcastle Falcons Sixways

Is it too early to call this a relegation match? Worcester will feel that their win over 2014 champs Saints and narrow defeat at Kingsholm should earn them more respect than that. Falcons fans however will be watching through clenched fingers. To call Falcons poor so far would be a serious understatement. We know they have talent - but the application so far this season has been absent. A workmanlike team with great spirit like Worcester should have enough to win this with some ease. Unless Falcons brink more than they have so far it will be yet more depression for our Geordie friends.

15:15 Northampton Saints v Saracens Franklin's Gardens BT Sport

Huge fixture with the away team bang in form and looking to enter Euro weeks with a perfect start to the season. Saints are struggling. they seem to have reverted completely to Warrenball and as Wales are oft accused seem to have no plan B. Sarries will not back down from the physical challenge, so can Saints deliver something different on their return to a new, improved Franklin's Gardens?

17:30 Exeter Chiefs v Leicester Tigers Sandy Park BT Sport

Can Leicester continue their winning run this season. Having done the double in the AP last season over Exeter, and with some big names likely to be returning to the lineup they will be hopeful. Exeter should however provide a really stern test of the tigers defence. At times last season the Midlanders were over-run by sides willing to put pace and width on the ball - and Exeter are certainly capable of doing that. Baxter and his men will be fully aware that last season they allowed Tigers to drag them into an arm-wrestle at Sandy Park and will be looking to improve their own performance. Will be interesting to see which tigers Old Boys make the lineup for the men from Devon.
Exeter should win, probably denying Leicester an LBP

Sunday 8th November 2015

15:00 Wasps v Gloucester Rugby Ricoh Arena BT Sport

Final match of the weekend sees what will be a Gopperth-less (banned for 3 weeks so misses the first two ECC rounds) Wasps host a promising looking Gloucester team. this really could be a crackerjack of a game - though Daly and Wade will need to show more form than they have so far. Wasps could well be without Nathan Hughes following a knee injury at Welford Road. I am looking forward to seeing Kvesic against old master George Smith.
Wasps to win an entertaining match by less than a score.

by yappysnap Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:23 pm

Citedini had a closed fist which is always a card. Farrell although a little naughty naughty boy used an open hand petulant technique which never cops any punishment (unless you're Chris Ashton). Wood should have punched him then they both would have been yellowed

by Scottrf Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:58 pm

Which is a joke. I'd rather be hit with a fist that's barely moving than a strong palm when I can't defend myself.

Farrell is just a little Poopie who can give it but can't take it.

by **LondonTiger** Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:45 pm

Official Statement from Liecester Tiggers wrote:

We can today confirm that we have received today a Restraining Order, issued by the Court Appellant, that herby prohibits any Liecester Tigger player from grabbing, touching, grasping or in any way holding Mr Owen Farrell of Friern Barnet without express written permission being granted by the aforementioned Mr Farrell. Furthermore we can confirm that the Restraining Oreder makes special reference to Mr Farrell's knees, which have now been granted emergency Grade 1 listing by English Heritage and have been deemed a construction of outstanding natural beauty. Any action by employees of Liecester Tiggers, or an appointed agents, found to have broken the restraining order will be sentenced to 30 years hard labour.

End of statement.

by yappysnap Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:40 pm

Just seen the Bath/LI shoulder barge, nothing like the Gloucester one, that was definitely only a yellow.

by formerly known as Sam Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:04 pm

Scottrf wrote:Which is a joke. I'd rather be hit with a fist that's barely moving than a strong palm when I can't defend myself.

Farrell is just a little Poopie who can give it but can't take it.

What annoys me is that if Wood had reacted angrily or played up and gone down then Farrell would have walked but because Wood just laughed in his face there's nothing doing. Farrell needs to ditch the petulant attitude, it's going to get him into bother one day.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:27 am

yappysnap wrote:Just seen the Bath/LI shoulder barge, nothing like the Gloucester one, that was definitely only a yellow.

I'm puzzled - how can a punch in the face be red but a deliberate shoulder in the face be yellow?

by yappysnap Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:57 am

I don't think he hit his face

by Geordie Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:45 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Which is a joke. I'd rather be hit with a fist that's barely moving than a strong palm when I can't defend myself.

Farrell is just a little Poopie who can give it but can't take it.

What annoys me is that if Wood had reacted angrily or played up and gone down then Farrell would have walked but because Wood just laughed in his face there's nothing doing. Farrell needs to ditch the petulant attitude, it's going to get him into bother one day.

I think that's something that's becoming more and more noticeable. He really needs to be taken aside and told to lose the attitude...and backchat to the refs etc.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:31 am

yappysnap wrote:I don't think he hit his face

He drove his shoulder upwards into Geraghty's chin like an uppercut - deliberately.

by Bathman_in_London Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:45 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Which is a joke. I'd rather be hit with a fist that's barely moving than a strong palm when I can't defend myself.

Farrell is just a little Poopie who can give it but can't take it.

What annoys me is that if Wood had reacted angrily or played up and gone down then Farrell would have walked but because Wood just laughed in his face there's nothing doing. Farrell needs to ditch the petulant attitude, it's going to get him into bother one day.

I think that's something that's becoming more and more noticeable. He really needs to be taken aside and told to lose the attitude...and backchat to the refs etc.

He really does need to control himself, a top FH needs to be cool under pressure, not going for cheap shots and shouting at the ref.

by Margin_Walker Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:51 am

He spent most of the LI game a few weeks ago moaning at the ref to a point where he had to tell the captain to have a word with him. Not as much of a Faz hater as some, but he really needs to sort it out. One day a ref will get bored of it.

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:55 am

Heaf wrote:
yappysnap wrote:I don't think he hit his face

He drove his shoulder upwards into Geraghty's chin like an uppercut - deliberately.

I've still not seen a replay but I really don't think he did Heaf. From watching it real time, he just looked like he ran straight into him. I'm no Bath fan but yellow looked just at the time.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:16 am

I have seen the replay and from both angles shown it looks to me like he connects shoulder to chin - I admit I'm biased but the report in TRP suggested a citing could be coming - not that I'll hold my breath for that.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:17 am

Take a look at @jr_oriley's Tweet: https://twitter.com/jr_oriley/status/663491917926309889?s=09

This is the no arms tackle/shoulder charge.

by Scottrf Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:22 am

Kind of hard to be 100% sure unless you have a few seconds before but that clip certainly looks dangerous and deliberate, he actually launches his weight upwards through his shoulder.

by **George Carlin** Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:06 am

Bathman_in_London wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Which is a joke. I'd rather be hit with a fist that's barely moving than a strong palm when I can't defend myself.

Farrell is just a little Poopie who can give it but can't take it.

What annoys me is that if Wood had reacted angrily or played up and gone down then Farrell would have walked but because Wood just laughed in his face there's nothing doing. Farrell needs to ditch the petulant attitude, it's going to get him into bother one day.

I think that's something that's becoming more and more noticeable. He really needs to be taken aside and told to lose the attitude...and backchat to the refs etc.

He really does need to control himself, a top FH needs to be cool under pressure, not going for cheap shots and shouting at the ref.

That's actually the main reason I would always choose Ford over Farrell at the moment. Farrell does this a little too often to be truly comfortable.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:08 am

He's getting worse at it. There was a time he was getting it about just right, playing on the edge for me is fine. Refs are picking him out to often for warnings at the moment though.

by HongKongCherry Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:11 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Take a look at @jr_oriley's Tweet: https://twitter.com/jr_oriley/status/663491917926309889?s=09

This is the no arms tackle/shoulder charge.

That does look pretty bad. Whether he intends to catch him in the chin is debatable, but there is clear intention to shoulder charge. As this was reckless in the execution, just like Halaifonua yesterday, then it should have been a red and he should be cited.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:33 pm

Thank you - don't understand how anyone could see that as a yellow - thought maybe I was going soft or something.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:34 pm

Scottrf wrote:Kind of hard to be 100% sure unless you have a few seconds before but that clip certainly looks dangerous and deliberate, he actually launches his weight upwards through his shoulder.

precisely

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:09 pm

The more I watch it, the more I think it should be a red card. He actually changes direction after Shane has kicked it, to ensure that he catches him.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:15 pm

It was red all along for me ...

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:43 pm

Heaf wrote:It was red all along for me ...

Here's me thinking you thought it was a yellow Wink

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:47 pm

Just seen the vid (it always looks worse in slow-mo). It was a bad hit but I think yellow probably cuts it personally. Red wouldn't have surprised me but it's the call on the day and I think he got it right

by yappysnap Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:17 pm

Just read that Quins haven't won a single game by more then 10 points since January, that's a lot of very nervy matches!

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:15 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Heaf wrote:It was red all along for me ...

Here's me thinking you thought it was a yellow

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:17 pm

yappysnap wrote:Just read that Quins haven't won a single game by more then 10 points since January, that's a lot of very nervy matches!

I'd be happy to swap that with our results ... I remember the days when we won more than we lost and those that we lost were by less than 7 ... sadly a dimming memory

by Poorfour Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:02 pm

Heaf wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Just read that Quins haven't won a single game by more then 10 points since January, that's a lot of very nervy matches!

I'd be happy to swap that with our results ... I remember the days when we won more than we lost and those that we lost were by less than 7 ... sadly a dimming memory

To be fair, I think the number of games we've won by more than 10 points since we came back from ND1 is a very short list. Even in 2011/12 we had a lot of nailbiters. I think Conor prefers it that way.

by HammerofThunor Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:02 pm

Heaf wrote:It was red all along for me ...

Seems very similar to Hogg's (full back) red against Wales. But I've only seen the slow motion with no 'context'.

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:12 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Heaf wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Just read that Quins haven't won a single game by more then 10 points since January, that's a lot of very nervy matches!

I'd be happy to swap that with our results ... I remember the days when we won more than we lost and those that we lost were by less than 7 ... sadly a dimming memory

To be fair, I think the number of games we've won by more than 10 points since we came back from ND1 is a very short list. Even in 2011/12 we had a lot of nailbiters. I think Conor prefers it that way.

Perhaps he's an adrenaline junkie Smile

by Heaf Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:17 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Heaf wrote:It was red all along for me ...

Seems very similar to Hogg's (full back) red against Wales. But I've only seen the slow motion with no 'context'.

How's this?

by formerly known as Sam Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:50 pm

Poor attempt to rough up the opposition ten easy yellow card.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:33 pm

I've not seen the Gloucester wingers red card offence but am told it was similar.

by HammerofThunor Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:05 pm

Heaf wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Heaf wrote:It was red all along for me ...

Seems very similar to Hogg's (full back) red against Wales. But I've only seen the slow motion with no 'context'.

How's this?

Yeah, no real excuse for that. Red I think.

by Scottrf Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:31 pm

Gloucester one was similar in effect but looked less intentional, more reckless.

by yappysnap Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:08 am

Going by the Glos incident a clear red

by HongKongCherry Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:15 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:I've not seen the Gloucester wingers red card offence but am told it was similar.

It was actually quite different as Halaifonua was attempting to make a tackle, but it was just very clumsy with a deserved red. For me there is a definite touch of malice in Devoto's actions

https://youtu.be/xTBq2UR9fHk?t=48s

by Geordie Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:36 am

Whos been the stand out players then so far in the prem?

by propdavid_london Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:42 am

For Quins - Clifford and Wallace have been good. Matt Loumanu was making an impact before injury and Nev appears to have form back.

Exeter are looking very strong - Who is the new prop they have with the LCD style mullet? Steenson looks to be firing on all cylinders too.

by yappysnap Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:25 am

The Wasps, Exeter and Quins backrows are probably the standouts so far. Obviously I'm biased but Horwill and Twomey have been the best locks I've seen so far too.

In the backs it's a bit trickier as the late start to the season and off form of Internayional players has had an effect and it's not been the best to watch at times.

By all accounts Pennell has been very good for Wuss and Cipriani has been a class 10 so far.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:36 am

yappysnap wrote:Obviously I'm biased but Horwill and Twomey have been the best locks I've seen so far too.

They did not stand out for me at WR.

by propdavid_london Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:45 am

LT - Talking of SR's, when is Slater and Kitchener going to be off the injury list?
De Chaves hasnt looked great for you guys. But both of the above will give a real boost when back.

Yes, I forgot Pennell - he has looked dangerous.

Rockodunguni looks to have had a good outing with Bath against LI. And Priestland too for his first start.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:59 am

propdavid_london wrote:LT - Talking of SR's, when is Slater and Kitchener going to be off the injury list?

Supposedly both are in full training. May feature against treviso I guess.

by Tiger/Chief Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:03 am

propdavid_london wrote:For Quins - Clifford and Wallace have been good. Matt Loumanu was making an impact before injury and Nev appears to have form back.

Exeter are looking very strong - Who is the new prop they have with the LCD style mullet? Steenson looks to be firing on all cylinders too.

Alec Hepburn - have just started a thread on the international board about him! very highly rated after somewhat losing his rugby bearings when he left wasps for personal reasons to return to Perth for "family reasons" at the age of 20.

by propdavid_london Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:16 am

Is he an EQP Yiger/Chief?

by No 7&1/2 Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:18 am

PLayed for the under 20s didn't he?

by **LondonTiger** Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:20 am

propdavid_london wrote:Is he an EQP Yiger/Chief?

Despite playing for england U20s may not be eligible. As he returned to Perth to play, his place of birth, will only be eligible atm via parents or grandparents.

by propdavid_london Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:49 am

Well, that was good enough for Waldrom Very Happy

by **LondonTiger** Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:51 am

aye, just not sure if he has English parentage Very Happy

by yappysnap Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:01 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Obviously I'm biased but Horwill and Twomey have been the best locks I've seen so far too.

They did not stand out for me at WR.

I don't know, I thought Horwills penalty count alone was quite out standing.

Without bothering to go back and look to back any of these claims upp, I seem to recall them both making a lot of tackles and putting in some big hits on various Tigers players, as well as obviously doing well in the maul, whether the ref could understand that or not.

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