Aviva Premiership - Round 3

Table

POS	TEAM	-PL-	-W-	-D-	-L-	-PF-	-PA-	-DIFF-	-TF-	-TA-	-TB-	-LB-	-PTS-
1	Saracens	2	2	0	0	69	16	53	9	1	2	0	10
2	Bath Rugby	2	2	0	0	76	19	57	8	3	1	0	9
3	Wasps	2	2	0	0	59	42	17	7	4	1	0	9
4	Northampton Saints	2	1	0	1	46	28	18	6	1	1	1	6
5	Sale Sharks	2	1	0	1	36	29	7	3	2	0	1	5
6	Leicester Tigers	2	1	0	1	60	65	-5	7	8	1	0	5
7	Harlequins	2	1	0	1	31	38	-7	3	4	0	0	4
8	Newcastle Falcons	2	1	0	1	24	75	-51	2	10	0	0	4
9	Gloucester Rugby	2	0	1	1	54	61	-7	6	8	1	1	4
10	Worcester Warriors	2	0	1	1	26	58	-32	3	6	0	0	2
11	Bristol Rugby	2	0	0	2	29	53	-24	4	6	0	1	1
12	Exeter Chiefs	2	0	0	2	33	59	-26	3	8	0	1	1

Fixtures

FRIDAY 16TH SEPTEMBER 2016

19:45 Sale v Gloucester BT Sport
The organised, but dare I say it slightly dull, Sale Sharks entertain the more mercurial but also much more dysfunctional Gloucester. Both teams had influential back rowers flattened by opponents subsequently receiving their marching orders last week. Sale especially would like skipper Beaumont to have passed the concussion protocols and be ready to play. In the end I suspect that Sale’s organisation and teamwork will win the day as they grind out a win.


SATURDAY 17TH SEPTEMBER 2016

15:00 Bath v Worcester
Having failed to score a try in Round 1, Bath ran in a whopping 8 in their crushing victory over Falcons in round 2. George Ford won the plaudits from opposing DoR Dean Richards, but special mention must be given to Max Clark, whose direct running and good hands allow time for the internationals either side of him. It is hard to say how well Bath played as by all accounts Falcons capitulated, but the tight 5 went well, back row better than expected and Fotuali’I looked a lot more like the 9 that Ospreys fans will remember (rather than Saints fans).
Worcester were perhaps unlucky to only draw last week, yet with the amount of mistakes made by Gloucester in that game they have only themselves to blame. They need players like Hougaard and Heem back. They need a better 10 than Ryan Lamb. With Bath’s back row still in disarray, even with Houston returning, someone is going to capitalise. Cannot see it being Worcester though.

15:00 Exeter v Harlequins
Having started the season with the worst two fixtures possible, last season’s runner up find themselves at the bottom of the table. Two defeats is not unexpected, but Rob Baxter will have been unhappy about the way the matches were lost and the number of tries conceded. Something is not quite working both in the pack and behind in the backs – but Baxter will be analysing everything in great detail to come up with an answer.
Quins fans are in despair. A squeaky win over new boys Bristol was followed by defeat away to Sale. That they lost in Salford is no surprise, but the manner of defeat with apparently a number of players looking almost disinterested is the main reason for the fans dissatisfaction. Travelling down to Devon is probably not the ideal trip – but maybe going as underdogs will allow Quins to relax and play their own game?
Exeter should, despite misfiring, have too much for Quins.

15:00 Saracens v Northampton BT Sport
Heavyweight clash in Barnet this week. George v Hartley, Mako v Brookes/Hill, Itoje v Lawes, Billy v Louis. Some contests to savour – but this match will be won by the collective not individuals. Sarries are slowly grinding their way into form, while pulverising opponents as they do it. Saints should not fold as Worcester and Exeter did but can they match the Allianz Juggernaut?
Having played poorly for most of the game in Round 1, their defence has largely stayed intact. Like their hosts just 1 try conceded in the two games so far is testament to their hard work. However can they create enough to truly scare Sarries? Gut feel is Saints will need the champions to be a touch off-colour if they are to get anything from this game.


SUNDAY 18TH SEPTEMBER 2016

14:30 Wasps v Bristol
Wasps host Bristol with two wins already under their belt. Dai Young will know that they are some way below their best so far but he will be pleased that the results are coming anyway. Last season they usually lost when not at their best.
Bristol are likely to make this a 3rd defeat in a row and despite showing early promise need to actually start getting results. Maybe next week.

15:00 Newcastle v Leicester BT Sport
Two teams who were happy after Round 1 and distraught after round 2. Two teams who need to play a lot better, show more application and dedication if they are to achieve their potential. Both sets of players should be truly embarrassed by their performances last week.

Loving your Falcons v Tigers write up LT.  Very short and not so sweet.  What do you reckon to Tigers chances?  Have they ever won on a plastic pitch?

Ozzy3213 wrote:Loving your Falcons v Tigers write up LT.  Very short and not so sweet.  What do you reckon to Tigers chances?  Have they ever won on a plastic pitch?

We should beat Falcons. I know their fans insist we underestimate their players, but there are very few I would take and put into our starting XV. However play as we have been and Falcons could very easily get another TBP win.

As to winning on palstic pitches - I believe only the Academy have managed that.

Just posting here to congratulate you LT on another amazing thread. Great previews of the games. Top work mate.

We beat them last season Ozzy...

Personally I was furious about last weeks performance(as you probably gathered by my comments). All our big carriers that we've signed over the summer...not one of them went down to Bath..why?

Did Dean sacrifice that game to target this one on Sunday?? If so , thats pathetic!

I expect a MUCH better performance, and I suspect some of the big carriers like Fonua will be in the squad.

I forsee a narrow defeat for us.

It is a tough one to call.  Man for man you'd take Tigers, but as you say, something does not appear to be quite clicking there at the moment.

GeordieFalcon wrote:We beat them last season Ozzy...

Personally I was furious about last weeks performance(as you probably gathered by my comments). All our big carriers that we've signed over the summer...not one of them went down to Bath..why?

Did Dean sacrifice that game to target this one on Sunday?? If so , thats pathetic!

I expect a MUCH better performance, and I suspect some of the big carriers like Fonua will be in the squad.

I forsee a narrow defeat for us.

I watched extended highlights of your game GF, and it seemed to me as if you were well in the game right up to Goneva getting carded, at which point they scored 3 tries in 10 minutes and the game was gone.  I don't suspect that Deano sacrificed the game, you just got undone due to a moment of madness from Goneva.

Not sure it was a moment of madness...the referee seemed to completely miss Homer tackling Goneva without the ball which led to him being in a woeful position with Roko reigning down on him.

Anyway...that's irrelevant we got royally humped and I expect a huge response on Sunday even if its just in the mental aspect...we seemed to just give up with out a fight at all.

The problem is Leicester will be feeling the same and what better team to face than the falcons.

I hope Cockers fires a rocket up some backsides this week in training. There are far too many players coasting. Both hookers, Ayerza, Fitzgerald, Tait, Betham all for starters. Personally I hope we see Thacker and Evans return to the squad to give us an injection of the explosive up front. Slater will miss the game which will be a loss as he's been very good whilst others have laboured. Hopefully Kitchener will get a chance to start with Barrow.

Would like to be optimistic about Quins chances but it's kinda hard at the moment. We've got a quality squad, they haven't all become terrible players, but we've been afflicted by this malaise since the day COS announced his departure.

I'd settle for a LBP away at Sandy Park.

Yea happy to get a lbp, I fear we may get a hiding.

Oh how I love the weekends, looking forward to another miserable Gloucester outing! It's rather disconcerting that we're facing an injury crisis already, but with Galarza and Moriarty likely to miss out we're threadbare particularly at lock. Nevertheless, if we play like we did for the first 40 against Tigers we'll win, if we play like we have for the 120 minutes since we won't! Sadly I can see a 10 point victory to Sale tomorrow, as despite our victory their last season, Sale away has been a banker for an away loss for the last 15 years for us.

Bath should win heavily again, although not with such a high margin as last week. Chiefs should win comfortably with a BP. Whilst Saints are a bogey side to Globogym, they are unlikely to halt their world dominance and it would be a major achievement if they came away with a LBP. Wasps will thrash Bristol and Tigers will get a TBP win.

HongKongCherry - Can I ask what are your thoughts on twelvetrees? I've not really followed Gloucester much until recently (with you now having Matt & Greig) and when I've seen him play he seems massively error prone and not really adding much to the team. I might be doing him a disservice, was just keen to hear a Gloucester fan's thoughts.

EWT, sadly he is shadow of his former self. 3 years ago, he was truly outstanding and single-handedly saved Glaws from getting involved in a relegation dog fight. Since that time however, he has been very poor. He forces moves, often over-running passes or over-throwing passes. His positional kicking has also become far worse. There is no doubt that Hook has played a large part in this; his natural reaction is to play deep and crab to the side, leaving 36 with little room to play with. He had his best 40 minutes for some considerable time in the first half against Tigers, when Billy Burns was playing FH; his natural game is to take the ball to the line which works very well for 36.

On positive aspect which remains is his defence. He leads the line very well and he visibly communicates throughout the game organising the defenders. His tackle rate remains high and he is effective over the ball.

I'm a big fan of 36 and in his pomp he was genuinely the best English 12, however, he is deservedly nowhere near the England set up. Had Henry Trinder not been injured I'd have expected to see Matt Scott start at 12 with Trinder at 13. I do feel 36 would benefit from being dropped and being forced to up his game and if he continues in this form it surely can only be a matter of time until he is dropped.

HongKongCherry wrote:EWT, sadly he is shadow of his former self. 3 years ago, he was truly outstanding and single-handedly saved Glaws from getting involved in a relegation dog fight. Since that time however, he has been very poor.  He forces moves, often over-running passes or over-throwing passes. His positional kicking has also become far worse. There is no doubt that Hook has played a large part in this; his natural reaction is to play deep and crab to the side, leaving 36 with little room to play with.  He had his best 40 minutes for some considerable time in the first half against Tigers, when Billy Burns was playing FH; his natural game is to take the ball to the line which works very well for 36.

On positive aspect which remains is his defence. He leads the line very well and he visibly communicates throughout the game organising the defenders. His tackle rate remains high and he is effective over the ball.

I'm a big fan of 36 and in his pomp he was genuinely the best English 12, however, he is deservedly nowhere near the England set up.  Had Henry Trinder not been injured I'd have expected to see Matt Scott start at 12 with Trinder at 13. I do feel 36 would benefit from being dropped and being forced to up his game and if he continues in this form it surely can only be a matter of time until he is dropped.

Cheers. Like you I remember him being superb a few seasons ago, but as you say he just seems a shadow of that player now, which really surprised me, as I say I've not followed your games that closely. I thought in your last game that he cost the team a few points with unforced errors or poor passing in moves that looked like they could have been certain (or near certain) tries.

Well hope his form picks up for Glaws perspective and also from a selfish Scottish point of view as I'd like Scott and Laidlaw to be playing in a winning team.

Lo and behold, 36 is dropped!!

15. Tom Marshall; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Matt Scott, 12. Mark Atkinson, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Billy Burns, 9. Greig Laidlaw (capt); 1. Yann Thomas, 2. Richard Hibbard, 3. John Afoa; 4. Tom Savage, 5. Joe Latta; 6. Lewis Ludlow, 7. Matt Kvesic, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements:

16. Darren Dawidiuk, 17. Cameron Orr, 18. Paul Doran-Jones, 19. Gareth Evans, 20. Jacob Rowan, 21. Willi Heinz, 22. James Hook, 23. Billy Twelvetrees

and Sale:

15. Byron McGuigan, 14. Will Addison. 13. Sam James, 12. Johnny Leota, 11. Paolo Odogwu, 10. Dan Mugford, 9. Mike Phillips, 1. Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Halani Aulika, 4. Bryn Evans, 5. Jonathan Mills, 6. Cameron Neild, 7. David Seymour, 8. Josh Beaumont (capt.)

Replacements: 16. Ross Harrison, 17. Kieran Longbottom, 18. Andrei Ostrikov, 19. Magnus Lund, 20. Laurence Pearce, 21. Peter Stringer, 22. Nev Edwards, 23. Sam Bedlow

Leicester Tigers (v Newcastle Falcons, away, Sunday 3pm)
15 Mathew Tait (c)
14 Telusa Veainu
13 Peter Betham
12 Owen Williams
11 JP Pietersen
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs
1 Ellis Genge
2 George McGuigan
3 Dan Cole
4 Mike Fitzgerald
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Williams
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Luke Hamilton

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Greg Bateman
19 Ed Slater
20 Will Evans
21 Jono Kitto
22 Jack Roberts
23 Adam Thompstone

Newcastle Falcons: 15 Simon Hammersley, 14 Vereniki Goneva, 13 Dominic Waldouck, 12 Juan Pablo Socino, 11 Sinoti Sinoti, 10 Mike Delany, 9 Sonatane Takulua; 1 Sam Lockwood, 2 Scott Lawson, 3 Jon Welsh, 4 Calum Green, 5 Evan Olmstead, 6 Mark Wilson, 7 Will Welch (c), 8 Ally Hogg
Replacements: 16 Ben Sowrey, 17 Rob Vickers, 18 Paddy Ryan, 19 Will Witty, 20 Dan Temm, 21 Michael Young, 22 Joel Hodgson, 23 Belisario Agulla

No Smith or McCaffery two of our best players so far this season not available, BOC and Slater who both have poor history with injuries from plastic pitches as till no Harry Thacker despite him captaining the A league side and helping score a penalty try at the scrum.

As an aside, how the hell is Tait still getting picked? I don't like him as captain either, doesn't talk to the referee.

Newcastle will bo doubt be feeling more optimistic this week.

What is BOC history with plastic pitches? He played in the Saracens away SF.

Also wouldn't put to much into the a league scrum aswell.

The only basis for excluding Thacker is that he is perceived as weak at the scrum. In terms of lineout and ability in the loose he is the equal if not better of our other hookers. Given Youngs has been solid and McGuigan good followed by poor I would have liked to see Thacker given the opportunity to stake a claim.

One of my work colleagues met BOC the other week and he said he wasn't happy to see more fake surfaces coming into the game as he's picked up injuries in something like five of his last seven games on plastic pitches. I don't know the severity etc but I doubt he's looking forward to it.

Mobile pack we've put out but no big ballast either.

We're obviously going to try and move Leicester around the park.

Be interesting to see Lockwood at LH. He's supposed to be a beast of a scrummager, but that was at Championship level...not Prem. Its a big jump.

Bath Rugby team to face Worcester Warriors

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Matt Banahan
12. Dan Bowden
11. Anthony Watson
10. George Ford ( c )
9. Kahn Fotulai’i
1. Nick Auterac
2. Ross Batty
3. Henry Thomas
4. Luke Charteris
5. Dave Attwood
6. Charlie Ewels
7. David Sisi
8. Leroy Houston

Replacements

16. Tom Dunn
17. Nathan Catt
18. Kane Palma-Newport
19. Elliott Stooke
20. Zach Mercer
21. Will Homer
22. Aled Brew
23. Jeff Williams

Unavailable for selection: Max Clark, Chris Cook, David Denton, Tom Ellis, Taulupe Faletau, Matt Garvey, Jonathan Joseph, Francois Louw, Niko Matawalu, Guy Mercer, Rhys Priestland, Jack Walker, David Wilson.



Good to see Watson back playing, shame that JJ is ruled out.

Warriors
15 Jamie Shillcock
14 Dean Hammond
13 Wynand Olivier
12 Jackson Willison
11 Perry Humphreys
10 Tom Heathcote
9 Jonny Arr
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Niall Annett
3 James Johnston
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Darren Barry
6 Marco Mama
7 Carl Kirwan
8 Phil Dowson (C)

Replacements
16 Jaba Bregvadze
17 Na'ama Leleimalefaga
18 Mike Daniels
19 Christian Scotland-Williamson
20 Tevita Cavubati
21 Luke Baldwin
22 Tiff Eden
23 Josh Adams

CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE HARLEQUINS
15 Lachie Turner
14 Olly Woodburn
13 Ollie Devoto
12 Henry Slade
11 Ian Whitten
10 Gareth Steenson (capt)
9 Will Chudley
1 Ben Moon
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie
3 Greg Holmes
4 Mitch Lees
5 Geoff Parling
6 Don Armand
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom
16 Jack Yeandle
17 Alec Hepburn
18 Tomas Francis
19 Damian Welch
20 Dave Dennis
21 Dave Lewis
22 Sam Hill
23 James Short


Slade to 12.

Harlequins team
15. Mike Brown
14. Marland Yarde
13. Joe Marchant
12. Winston Stanley
11. Charlie Walker
10. Tim Swiel
9. Danny Care (C)

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Sam Twomey
5. James Horwill
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. Jack Clifford

16. Dave Ward
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. George Merrick
20. James Chisholm
21. Karl Dickson
22. James Lang
23. Alofa Alofa

Saracens: Goode; Ashton, Bosch, Barritt (capt), Wyles; Lozowski, Wigglesworth; M Vunipola, Brits, Du Plessis, Itoje, Hamilton, Rhodes, Burger, B Vunipola.

Replacements: George, Barrington, Figallo, Brown, Wray, Spencer, Taylor, Maitland.

Northampton: Tuala; K Pisi, G Pisi, Burrell, North; Myler, Dickson; Waller, Haywood, Brookes, Lawes, Paterson, Wood (capt), Harrison, Picamoles.

Replacements: Clare, Ma'afu, Hill, Dickinson, Gibson, Groom, Mallinder, Foden.

Don't know who will move to 2nd row if Hamilton or Itoje picks up an injury.

Confident seeing that Saints side but with Saints you never quite know. Not that it's a bad side it's just with certain players missing or not starting it could look more imposing.

Some good impact backs though. Must be wondering to themselves why they aren't starting! Though saying that the Sarries backs replacements don't look too shabby either!

I would have personally picked the stronger scrummager George to start as Saints have a nice scrum but we'll see how that pans out.

Rhodes? Sure he used to play lock for Stormers.

Wasps team to play Bristol Rugby

15. Rob Miller
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Jimmy Gopperth
11. Frank Halai
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Joe Simpson
1. Simon McIntyre
2. Tommy Taylor
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Matt Symons
5. James Gaskell ©
6. Alex Rieder
7. Thomas Young
8. Guy Thompson

Replacements

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Matt Mullan
18. Phil Swainston
19. Kearnan Myall
20. Nathan Hughes
21. Craig Hampson
22. Kyle Eastmond
23. Josh Bassett

Unavailable for selection through injury:

Forwards – James Haskell, Joe Launchbury, Marty Moore
Backs – Dan Robson, Kurtley Beale, Alapati Leiua, Brendan Macken

Err, some big names missing from Quins.
NEv, Roberts, Visser - Pack is largely unchanged but it looks as if they have swung the axe a bit after last week.
Loumanu is banned. So Baby Chis comes onto bench.
Anyone know what the weather is doing in Sandy Park on Saturday? Soggy conditions and I suspect Quins will be blasted off the paddock!

Bristol Rugby team to face Wasps at the Ricoh Arena on Sunday, 18 September (2.30pm KO):

15. Jordan Williams; 14. Ryan Edwards, 13. William Hurrell, 12. Thretton Palamo, 11. Tom Varndell, 10. Tusi Pisi, 9. Will Cliff, 1. Ryan Bevington, 2. Ross McMillan, 3. Anthony Perenise, 4. Ian Evans, 5. Joe Joyce, 6. Jack Lam (c), 7. Olly Robinson, 8. Mitch Eadie.

Replacements: 16. Chris Brooker, 17. Soane Tonga’uiha, 18. Gaston Cortes, 19. James Phillips, 20. Jordan Crane, 21. Martin Roberts, 22. Adrian Jarvis, 23. Ben Mosses.


Gavin Henson (dead leg), Ben Glynn (shoulder), Jon Fisher (toe), Marc Jones (knee), David Lemi (knee), Callum Sheedy (hamstring), and Glen Townson (knee) remain unavailable.

Who is Alex Rieder? Wasps no.6
Sam Jones been dropped or rotated? Good to see Eastmond easing in off the bench.

There are only 8 names that I recognise in that Warriors side!

Anyone know which games are on the box this weekend?

I'll think you'll find that in LT's first post 

Ooops, cheers Heaf

propdavid_london wrote:Who is  Alex Rieder?  Wasps no.6
Sam Jones been dropped or rotated?

Rieder came off the bench last week. Jones is being rested after two physical performances according to the Wasps website.

LondonTiger wrote:Harlequins team
15. Mike Brown
14. Marland Yarde
13. Joe Marchant
12. Winston Stanley
11. Charlie Walker
10. Tim Swiel
9. Danny Care (C)

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Sam Twomey
5. James Horwill
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. Jack Clifford

16. Dave Ward
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. George Merrick
20. James Chisholm
21. Karl Dickson
22. James Lang
23. Alofa Alofa

Good that Marler is fit.

Are Jackson and Evans injured or dropped to giuve them a kick up the arse? If the latter, bold. Think the midfield (10-13) could struggle, but good to have Brown back and hopefully Care will play better

All home wins for me this week!

Forgot Jackson was missing too - that's a lot of experience being shelved.
I hope its not true, but Has Kingston decided that this match isn't winnable and so is blooding youngsters instead!

That's a MASSIVE Bath pack. Its like the old England team...not sure who to chose between Clarke, Rodber and Richards so just put them all in.

I will be watching with great interest to see how they hit Wuss.

Don't really have a choice on the bath pack, so many injuries already!

propdavid_london wrote:Forgot Jackson was missing too - that's a lot of experience being shelved.  
I hope its not true, but Has Kingston decided that this match isn't winnable and so is blooding youngsters instead!

Apparently Evans has hurt his groin and Roberts his foot. Chisholm, Visser and Jackson have all been given a boot up the arse!

Absolutely massive gamble by the coaches but I like that they've finally decided enough is enough, we weren't really expecting much from this game anyway so great that a lot of fringe players, who'll hopefully be hungrier to retain the shirt, get to play.

Still think we'll lose but I hope for a good performance.

Quiet on here this weekend!

I'm going to go with a win by 3 for the new look Quins side. The players that've been dropped in to play out off wit skins to prove a point to the coaches!!

Falcons by 30

Worcester have made a good start but Bath getting back into it now..

Mako struggling against Brookes. Good pack showing from Saints so far, North looking good with little ball.

3-14 to Worcester but a long way to go..

13-17 now. Bath cutting straight through the Warriors defence.

20-17 now. Come on Worcester it's still doable!!

How's Ford playing?

Ford is looking good to me. Keeping Bath moving forward and creating plenty unfortunately! Bath stretching away from wuss now..