SA in India--Test Matches

First topic message reminder :

as I said at the end of last test when many were getting worried......

India keep out Pujara again to accommodate Rohit?
OR
will Indian managment loose face and keep their pet Rohit out?

that Indians will find an explanation of convenience......and here it is from shastri...all set to show we will play 3 spinners, 1 seamer and 6 batsmen......including pujara and Rohit
and Rohit might bowll seam up posing to be the 2nd seamer if required.

Dhawan will play ahead of Rahul...understandable but everyone is on a short rope here with so well performing Rahul in the squad


Two days before the Test, team director Ravi Shastri spoke about a few of these issues. The number of bowlers, he said, depended on the conditions underfoot and overhead. Sri Lanka was oppressively hot so India needed that extra bowler there. It has cooled down in India's November now, and if the pitches turn as asked, India could beef up their batting and go with just four bowlers. The big question, then, is will this new leadership team of Virat Kohli and Shastri, who have shown an inclination towards pace, be okay with playing just the one quick?

"Tomorrow you can play four spinners if you give me a pitch that will turn on the first day," an emphatic Shastri said. "No rule that you have to play a fast bowler. West Indies played four fast bowlers in their time. No spinners. What stops a team from playing four spinners if you get a track of that kind?"

"Home conditions," Shastri added mischievously.

Kohli couldn't go on to a ton, but Ajinkya Rahane did it in style, his 2nd of the game, thus joining a club of Vijay Hazare, Sunil Gavaskar, Rahul Dravid and Virat Kohli who scored twin tons in a test. India declared on 267-5 when Rahane reached his hundred.
South Africa need 481 to win and they have started badly yet again.......

SA blocking everything coming their way with great determination. They are 40-1 in the 38th over of the innings.
How would Kohli respond?

Currently the greatest innings ever being played by amla

Is this some kind of dirty protest from SA?

Boycott is probably weeping with joy!

charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Amazing from the South Africans. They did it in Australia, they did it in Sri Lanka, can they see this through tomorrow? Will be demanding even now. If they get through this partnership, then the lineup isn't the strongest....... If India get through partnership in the first session, think there will be enough time to

KP_fan wrote:charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Agreed - but only if you define 'the spirit of test cricket' as 'letting India win at home whatever happens'. What a complete b3ll3nd

S Africa are almost half way towards what surely would be the most obdurate successful batting out for a draw in all Test history.

KP_fan wrote:charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Willie Watson and Trevor Bailey have gone down in history for their epic defiance of the Aussies in 1953 at Lords.  Or there was Collingwood's famous fifth day innings in Cardiff....  Back to the wall defiance against the odds embodies the spirit of test cricket just as much as dashing centuries or phenomenal bowling feats.

India tried attacking with spin that is plan a, they tried short ball tactics from the seamers plan b. What would plan c be? would Kohli have a plan c? the biggest challenge of his short captaincy career....... Reminded of a couple of games in South Africa and New Zealand last season, where in India couldn't force the issue after controlling the game for most parts.

Think people are missing KPF's point here, notice the smiley....... And think back to some of the earlier discourses, I would suggest.......

SimonofSurrey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Agreed - but only if you define 'the spirit of test cricket' as 'letting India win at home whatever happens'. What a complete b3ll3nd

S Africa are almost half way towards what surely would be the most obdurate successful batting out for a draw in all Test history.  

It would be delusional to think, one can save a game by all the batsman stone-walling like they did today....for the entire 160 overs they have to face.

in a long defense like this one you've gotta go all but last session or three quarters of the last ....playing normal cricket....else you choke the momentum of the inning and one goes ( primarily Amla)...the rest will follow.
and that the spectator interest is also killed.
Bear in mind they had 160 overs and had they played normally...they would have put fear / pressure in India's mind forcing the fields back.

Ind was caught a bit surprised today...but will come back with fresher ideas....now they have no fear or pressure of any sort....and the new ball, harder with bounce will be due in 8 overs....
the game might be gone for SA by lunch time with this approach

111 - 4 Nelson strikes! Du Plessis out after a leisurely 10 runs off 97 balls.  ABD still resisting stoutly on 35 off 251 balls.   Minimum overs to be bowled now below 40.

Duminy goes quickly for a duck.

SA now 119 - 5 off 130 overs with minimum 32 overs to be bowled.

SA 136 -5 off 138 overs at tea. One hour plus minimum 15 overs to go, if the light holds. They are definitely in with a chance of saving this match now. Pitch is misbehaving, but light not good, so India likely to have to rely on spinners. 

It seems highly improbable that SA would have batted for 138 overs if they had played their normal game, considering the amount of spin and uneven bounce on offer to the bowling side.

SA crumbling after tea - 140 - 8.  ABD gone for 43 off 297 balls - great effort.

Now 143 - 9.

KP_fan wrote:

SimonofSurrey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Agreed - but only if you define 'the spirit of test cricket' as 'letting India win at home whatever happens'. What a complete b3ll3nd

S Africa are almost half way towards what surely would be the most obdurate successful batting out for a draw in all Test history.  

It would be delusional to think, one can save a game by all the batsman stone-walling like they did today....for the entire 160 overs they have to face.

in a long defense like this one you've gotta go all but last session or three quarters of the last ....playing normal cricket....else you choke the momentum of the inning and one goes ( primarily Amla)...the rest will follow.
and that the spectator interest is also killed.
Bear in mind they had 160 overs and had they played normally...they would have put fear / pressure in India's mind forcing the fields back.

Ind was caught a bit surprised today...but will come back with fresher ideas....now they have no fear or pressure of any sort....and the new ball, harder with bounce will be due in 8 overs....
the game might be gone for SA by lunch time with this approach

Look I told ya....a delusional approach to save a game over 160 0vers

KP_fan wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

SimonofSurrey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Agreed - but only if you define 'the spirit of test cricket' as 'letting India win at home whatever happens'. What a complete b3ll3nd

S Africa are almost half way towards what surely would be the most obdurate successful batting out for a draw in all Test history.  

It would be delusional to think, one can save a game by all the batsman stone-walling like they did today....for the entire 160 overs they have to face.

in a long defense like this one you've gotta go all but last session or three quarters of the last ....playing normal cricket....else you choke the momentum of the inning and one goes ( primarily Amla)...the rest will follow.
and that the spectator interest is also killed.
Bear in mind they had 160 overs and had they played normally...they would have put fear / pressure in India's mind forcing the fields back.

Ind was caught a bit surprised today...but will come back with fresher ideas....now they have no fear or pressure of any sort....and the new ball, harder with bounce will be due in 8 overs....
the game might be gone for SA by lunch time with this approach

Look I told ya....a delusional approach to save a game over 160 0vers

Unlikely perhaps, but not delusional. Those of us old enough to remember it will think the Saffers perhaps had this game in mind: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63701.html

Almost identical, completely unrealistic target for a completely outplayed side with nothing left to play for but a draw. Hardly 'shambolic' nor 'killing the spirit of test cricket'. More a case of seeking the least unlikely way out of a great big hole. Nothing the Saffers did yesterday or today was in any way contrary to the spirit of Test cricket.

KP_fan wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

SimonofSurrey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:charade...shambolic batting by SA
ICC should hand them a ban of some sort....for killing the spirit of test cricket

Agreed - but only if you define 'the spirit of test cricket' as 'letting India win at home whatever happens'. What a complete b3ll3nd

S Africa are almost half way towards what surely would be the most obdurate successful batting out for a draw in all Test history.  

It would be delusional to think, one can save a game by all the batsman stone-walling like they did today....for the entire 160 overs they have to face.

in a long defense like this one you've gotta go all but last session or three quarters of the last ....playing normal cricket....else you choke the momentum of the inning and one goes ( primarily Amla)...the rest will follow.
and that the spectator interest is also killed.
Bear in mind they had 160 overs and had they played normally...they would have put fear / pressure in India's mind forcing the fields back.

Ind was caught a bit surprised today...but will come back with fresher ideas....now they have no fear or pressure of any sort....and the new ball, harder with bounce will be due in 8 overs....
the game might be gone for SA by lunch time with this approach

Look I told ya....a delusional approach to save a game over 160 0vers

I agree with you, lad!

South Africa's effort/tactic cannot be called delusional at all in my view. It was a very determined effort to salvage something out of a nothing situation. Great credit to them, that they really challenged the Indian bowlers. It was a fine effort from AB de Villiers, the undoubted greatest batsman of his generation, and one of the greatest of all time, to have played such an innings. This is the guy who smashes 30 ball hundreds. 40 of 300 balls! The kind of mental effort needed to play such an innings, absolutely brilliant. And this isn't the first time he has done it....... Credit to Hashim Amla as well. It took him time to turn up for the series with the bat, and even then he wasn't even close to any substantive form, but a fine effort nevertheless.
Even more credit to Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja, and Umesh Yadav and Ishant Sharma too, and of course Virat Kohli.
Ashwin has just been sensational. The way he's able to trouble and get through batsman determined to survive and nothing else, I think of his 3 5fors in this series, in fact of all the 16 5fors that he has taken in his career so far, this has to be the proudest and best from him.
As for Jadeja, he has shown that he has evolved from India's best in major spinning conditions to a bowler who can challenge batsman even on more regular spinning tracks with his suttle variations. He doesn't have as many tricks in his bag like Ashwin has, but the variation of pace, and even more importantly the different release points, combined with his terrific accuracy means that he can be very effective and has to be the unquestioned number 2 spinner for India. And in this series, his contributions with the bat has been as much important.......
Umesh Yadav seems to be getting back to his 2012 best when he was Zaheer's understudy. The pace is consistently above 140, and the reverse swing is back. And he has improved his accuracy. Think they should keep him for only tests at this point of his career....... A real impact bowler, and unlike Varun Aaron, Yadav brings more than pace to the table. Aaron might be able to bowl a faster one at times, but from what I have observed, Umesh is consistently and on an average quicker too.......

By the way, is JP Duminy South Africa's version of Rohit Sharma? Is a place in the test side his birthright regardless of performance like the case with the Wonder?

if Kohli was put in the same match situation as was Amla...he would have played positively and attempted a win.
India duly rises to No.2 in ICC rankings

5 wins
2 draws affected by rain...that India would have won had the game gone all the way
2 defeats......games that India came close to winning

KP_fan wrote:
Look I told ya....a delusional approach to save a game over 160 0vers

Not delusional - a fine effort by several of SA's batsmen to salvage an unlikely draw on an increasingly difficult pitch. It was certainly a very challenging task indeed, but at tea - with ABD still at the crease on the final afternoon - they were in with a modest, but realistic chance of batting out remaining overs.

But full credit to India for the victory.

KP_fan wrote:if Kohli was put in the same match situation as was Amla...he would have played positively and attempted a win.
India duly rises to No.2 in ICC rankings

5 wins
2 draws affected by rain...that India would have won had the game gone all the way
2 defeats......games that India came close to winning

So might as well call it 9 wins! I am personally reserving judgement on Kohli until I see how his team performs on seaming wickets. The bar is low though as Dhoni's side was getting bowled out by Chris Jordan

VTR wrote:

KP_fan wrote:if Kohli was put in the same match situation as was Amla...he would have played positively and attempted a win.
India duly rises to No.2 in ICC rankings

5 wins
2 draws affected by rain...that India would have won had the game gone all the way
2 defeats......games that India came close to winning

So might as well call it 9 wins! I am personally reserving judgement on Kohli until I see how his team performs on seaming wickets. The bar is low though as Dhoni's side was getting bowled out by Chris Jordan

Your sarcasm is not lost on me
Starved..... for us from the bashing received in the Dhoni era.....I am relishing this golden passage

You are right though....definitive judgment will be passed on Kohli after he has traveled to SA, Aus, Eng and NZ...although the win in Lanka was our first ever

SA's problem to me appears their captain(s)

ABDV in limited forms is too frivolous...appears like leading a party event...all smiles ...lacking intensity and strategy

and Amla is too laid back...a defensive captain, who doesn't push as hard as many others can in an adverse situation....lets thing drift.

I am hearing murmurs of Smith returning and that won't be a bad idea...

Smith returning? Is there any such serious talk? Highly unlikely to materialize if at all the idea is mooted somewhere, but not the worst one really. At the time of his retirement, thought he was calling it quits a bit too early.......

Ah well. This is what I found on Google on Biff's possible return.
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/graeme-smith-hints-at-return-to-international-cricket-with-south-africa

msp83 wrote:Smith returning? Is there any such serious talk? Highly unlikely to materialize if at all the idea is mooted somewhere, but not the worst one really. At the time of his retirement, thought he was calling it quits a bit too early.......

He is only 34 now and by Misbah-ul standards another 6 years of cricket left in him....if he focuses only on tests

KP_fan wrote:SA's problem to me appears their captain(s)

ABDV in limited forms is too frivolous...appears like leading a party event...all smiles ...lacking intensity and strategy

and Amla is too laid back...a defensive captain, who doesn't push as hard as many others can in an adverse situation....lets thing drift.

I am hearing murmurs of Smith returning and that won't be a bad idea...

I've seen the suggestions about a possible return for Smith. I hope he doesn't make an international comeback. It might work, but the chances are that it would be difficult for him to regain the peak of fitness and mental intensity needed for the international scene.  He was crocked pretty much the whole time when he was meant to be playing for Surrey.

If Smith returns, Alastair Cook should be a very worried man indeed! Biff has a habit of forcing out England captains and pushing them into retirement!