Pakistan vs England ODI series

First topic message reminder :

The ODI series starts today, details of the fixtures in the 4 match series are as follows:
   
   Wed Nov 11 (50 ovs) 15:00 local (11:00 GMT)
   1st ODI - England v Pakistan Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi D/N
 
   Fri Nov 13 (50 ovs) 15:00 local (11:00 GMT)
   2nd ODI - England v Pakistan Sheikh Zayed Stadium, Abu Dhabi D/N
   
   Tue Nov 17 (50 ovs) 15:00 local (11:00 GMT)
   3rd ODI - England v Pakistan Sharjah Cricket Stadium D/N
 
   Fri Nov 20 (50 ovs) 15:00 local (11:00 GMT)
   4th ODI - England v Pakistan Dubai International Cricket Stadium D/N

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Century opening partnership.  Roy departs - for an excellent 54.  With England in ODIs you feel either a collapse or a period when they are becalmed for 10 overs is only a few moments away, but I hope they can post a competitive total after this start.

Second wicket partnership has been going 10 overs now for 41 runs.  Not exactly becalmed, but Pakistan will be more than happy with that period of play.

165/1 off 30. Can we double that in the last 20? Probably not but that should be the aim with 9 wickets left.

Olly wrote:

VTR wrote:That's a fair point about Woakes, he is 27 fairly soon, not ancient by any means but a lot of players have been successful from a much younger age

He's also just come off a pretty serious injury. And I'd say is better in red ball stuff.

Would like to see him play a part against the saffers

The injury is unfortunate, he has definitely fallen down the pecking as a result with Wood and Finn well ahead of him - neither were really in the frame when Woakes was playing in against India at home. His opening could be injury/retirement of Anderson retirement as the swing bowler in the line-up.

Oh yeah, there's a match on here. Well you can't really hope for much more, especially after that first match.

One area England have traditionally been poor at is accelerating through the last 20 overs, though its fair to say this current line up have done it on occasion

An England side of 2 years ago would end up 290-8 from here, the aim surely has to be around 330

Well done Alex Hales ...top 100 - at last

Been watching but wasn't game to come on and comment for fear of jinxing him...I can usually initiate a collapse

Surely going over 300 from here ? The more the merrier...with the current bowling options might need a few !

You've jinxed him alfie!

Need to get buttler in

We might get enough but this has been a poor ending thus far. 320 and more was on, especially with all these wickets left.

Stella wrote:You've jinxed him alfie!

He'd done his job

Morgan in time for some big hitting to the finish ....

Not often you'll say this - but Root killed us a bit there

Have to say the Pakistan pace bowlers have been excellent the last few overs.
Pinned England back quite well : still time for a late flourish ?

Been much improved batting effort anyway ; but I'm not sure the final score will be bullet proof , with the attack England are fielding. They will need to hope the chasing pressure brings wickets - otherwise Moeen and Rashid are likely to yield half the target on their own

Wahab really is bowling magnificently

Fizzled out a bit , eh ?

But yes , we must credit the bowlers. Think Pakistan are probably favourites now.

Would be a good day for Woakes to find some form with the ball

Good batting by our top order, good death bowling by the Pakistani quicks.

Good cricket all round

Olly wrote:Wahab really is bowling magnificently

Totally agree.

Noticeable how he's improved with those 2 t20 games in the summer with Surrey.

guildfordbat wrote:

Olly wrote:Wahab really is bowling magnificently

Totally agree.

Noticeable how he's improved with those 2 t20 games in the summer with Surrey.

That's what being around #ansariforengland does to you Guildford

Balls up.

Not finally as many as we hoped for at the 30 and 40 over marks. However, enough to give us a decent chance IF we bowl and field well.

I accept the batsmen let us and the bowlers down in the first ODI, However, Topley aside, I still thought the bowlers were pretty lame then and got off lightly as regards criticism. Time to put that right ....

I go to a meeting for an hour and come back to 283? That's 7 fewer than my "old England" prediction!

Remains to be seen if its a good score, vaguely remember England won by a large margin after a similar "fizzle out" in the summer, the one where Taylor got a hundred?

Olly wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Olly wrote:Wahab really is bowling magnificently

Totally agree.

Noticeable how he's improved with those 2 t20 games in the summer with Surrey.

That's what being around #ansariforengland does to you Guildford

I think this will be a really good test for Rashid. Taking a page out of the Shane Warne's lexicon, you'd probably give him a defensive field and ask him to bowl attacking deliveries, using all his variations. Pakistan, with the RRR already up to 6.67, would have to take him on. If your batsmen score you runs and your opener bowlers take 3 early wickets and you still don't perform, then you have to start asking questions of your spinner.

Woakes strikes again ....

guildfordbat wrote:Jimbo, not disagreeing but Woakes is one of those (several?) players who before too long will need to go from simply having potential to properly and regularly delivering. Don't wish to set ridiculous and immediate targets but a couple of wickets today would be good.

Meanwhile, a fine start from these two and in marked contrast to the opening game. 64/0 off 12. More than decent foundations being built although I'm counting no chickens at this stage.

Woakes getting greedy as he takes a third.

Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:Been watching this on and off...

Decent recovery effort from these two after that dreadful start.  Going to need a hefty score I'd imagine - bowling looks a bit short of experience/class.
Not sure I share Olly's confidence that the top order will "grow into the series" ...Root will , of course ; but Hales and Roy have some work to do , I think.
Later order looks much sounder with these two , and both spinners batting late. If Buttler can recover some form , runs are there. Nearly forgotten Woakes...

But who is going to bowl Pakistan out ?

Alfie you need to join my Chris Woakes bandwagon - hop aboard before it really takes off

Still time to hop aboard folks

Rashenious gets Rizwan with a slider

Not a fan of Rashid as most will know but he deserved that wicket. Seems to be bowling here with more zip.

Cricinfo reports that, before his wicket today, Woakes had bowled 299 successive wicketless deliveries since his last wicket. (Stat excludes wides and no balls)

A comfortable win in the end. Not perfect by any means but much better.

guildfordbat wrote:Hope J Dizzle's been watching or at least sees the highlights. He started the Jimmy Taylor bandwagon here and his little man's been playing very well and intelligently.

Only a couple of days behind for me, just caught up with ODI #1. Was a classic Taylor knock really - get yourself in 1 off 10, begin to increase the rate and was striking at 82ish and going up when dismissed. A player who knows how he plays in ODI cricket that is. Was equally impressive as at one point Morgan had a s/r of 100+ and Taylor was at 60 and they ended up striking at the same rate. The batting looks a lot more balanced on paper with Taylor in at 5, but we miss the extra bowler Stokes provides. Think Roy needs a real biggie this series or Stokes could come back in for him with moeen going up top. I also liked a couple of cover drives he played off Wahab when he was bowling quickly where he kept his shape perfectly and kept his technique but still smashed it for four. He has been guilty of trying to overhit before, perhaps this is an indication he is feeling secure and relaxed at this level now.

Will no doubt comment on ODI #2 when I watch it in a few days time!

Although I only followed the game online, it sounds as though Hales and Roy played superbly. They're the power players batting in the powerplay, but they reigned themselves in for the first 6 overs and got themselves going, before setting the tone with a 100-partnership and both finished with very good strike-rates. Such a good start made it possible for us to fluff the last 10 and still finish with a very competitive total that we could bowl too, contrast that with the last game when we had nothing in the start, one partnership and then a collapse, therefore leaving us short.

Evening all. Mind on other things obviously with Paris events, but given I feel unlikely to be able to sleep anytime soon I might as well post my thoughts on the first couple of games.

I think one of the main things to aknowledge is that in these conditions, and with current regs allowing an extra boundary rider in the last 10 overs, massive accelerations at the end of the innings appear unlikely. The ball gets older and thus softer, there's a touch of reverse too, and the pitch is tiring, so slower balls v effective. With that in mind, yes England should have scored a few more today, but expectations of 100+ runs from the last 10 are IMO unrealistic. I would class 80 as a very good final 10, and anything above 70 as more than decent (that's roughly a boundary every two overs).

First game, England obviously had that mess with their batting (Morgan, Taylor and maybe Woakes excepted), but I agree with guildford (I think) that with the very honourable exception of Topley their bowling wasn't great either. 216 should, in those conditions have been a tricky chase, especially with the three early wickets. Hafeez played very nicely indeed, and some moments din't go England's way, but overall too many loose deliveries.

Today, England were of course much better in all departments. Openers played very nicely. Personally I'm very please for Hales, and I think it shows that perseverance in those you believe in pays off. Many of us feel Hales should have been a fixture in the ODI side for a while now, and glad he's finally produced that innings of substance. Players can sometimes take time to feel at home at international level (for England, think Buttler in ODIs/T20s, and indeed Hales in T20s took a while to get going), but when they have that special ability, are worth keeping faith in. Would like Roy to make a similar statement sooner rather than later too, but he played a very nice innings today. I was particularly impressed with Hales's approach to the spinners, which is not necessarily his strength.

The bowling was also much more of a combined effort. I thought Rashid bowled really nicely today, as guildford mentioned there seemed to be more zip to his bowling, and he was perhaps unfortunate to end up with only one wicket. The challenge for him now is to produce when England don't have a below par score on the board (as I believed England's score was today, for all the doom and gloom, in these conditions 280 is a very good score IMO), but only a par, or even subpar effort. Still, promising signs.

England's opening bowlers seem to have been able to find some swing for a few overs with the new ball, which has proved priceless, and something Pakistan's seamers haven't really been able to do.

I actually think England's side has a nice balance to it. Ideally you might want a better sixth bowling option than Root, but in these conditions the five bowlers they have + Root feels pretty good. The two left-armers against a right-handed line-up work very well. The batting line-up has good balance to it too.

For Pakistan, they'll want their spinners to deliver more, but the main problems lie in their batting, as is shown by their frankly pretty awful record when chasing 250+ since 2010 (now 29 losses from 37). Azhar Ali isn't much of a one-day player IMO. They're struggling for a second opener (surely Hafeez should be opening? but then who bats 3?), as shown by the mad decision to promote the bloke who'd played an excellent knock at n°6, while their middle-order doesn't look too hot either. Malik has struggled since his first innings in the Test matches, and the rest are very inexperienced. Sarfraz is a classy player of course, but at n°7 will struggle to really influence games. Put simply, England will feel if they can get Hafeez they can really stop Pakistan from scoring, and get right into that fragile middle-order.

No one on deck for game three ?

Fair enough start for Pakistan at 50/1 off twelve...

Be interesting to see how England fare chasing for a change...hope Hales can keep his good form going.

England with an excellent fight back so far -Moeen and Rashid (after some hafeez stick) in particular have kept it pretty tight

Another run out!

I think the flurry of wickets will bring people out of hiding

It was a bit dull before this period of play to be honest

Moeen Ali outperforming Rashid again with the ball

GET ABOARD THE CHRIS WOAKES BANDWAGON

This is a shocking middle order collapse. It reminds me a lot of England playing Test cricket

got to be a very high full toss to get above Irfan's waist

208 all out. Decent rearguard from Riaz and the tail, but England will overall be pretty pleased with that, especially given how strong Pakistan looked when Sarfraz and Hafeez were together. Woakes with another four wickets, the feast after the famine

Mad for Chelsea wrote: Woakes with another four wickets, the feast after the famine

funny how cricket works. He probably bowled quite a lot better during the "famine" than he has in the last two games.


Getting a touch worried by Buttler's glovework. Sloppy again in this game, but safe as Bairstow and Billings both have gloves of steel too.

They would probably be better handing the iron gloves duties to Bairstow for now. Buttler looks absolutely shot at the moment, send the guy home for a break

Azhar ali bowling so badly, Taylor and Buttler struggling to hit him

weird. The ball basically suddenly started turning square about 20 overs in, but seems to have calmed down again now. Burst from Wahab Riaz now.

Excellent application from Taylor in this innings.

*Insert cliche of 'experience beyond his years' here*

Can't help but feel that if one of the England spinners had bowled as poorly as Zafar has, they'd have been slaughtered by all and sundry...

Excellent partnership between Taylor and Buttler this

Looks like I did a reverse jinx on Buttler there. Happy for him as I really rate him, let's hope he gets back to his best soon

Great to see Taylor taking his chance. Must be undroppable for SA at this point

A good all round performance from England - really do have some exciting young talent in this side. Jimmy Taylor is just a superb player