Future of the Welsh Premiership

by Welshmushroom Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:35 am

First topic message reminder :

For me the Premiership is not fit for purpose. We still have a semi pro league that is run on the basis that certain clubs still prioritise their own success above providing players ready for regional rugby.

For me the key areas to address are as follows:
1. Reduce teams to 8 with matches to be played 2 weeks apart. This would give teams a longer training schedule prior to matches to make sure players are recovered and prepared for the next match. A lot of players at this level do not play full time and have jobs so this will allow plenty of preparation time & recovery. Additionally the reduced amount of league matches (14 games) would in my opinion.
2. Hire professional coaches and full teams to condition these players to their best ability.
3. Selection of squads. This opinion will be contentious but I’ll give my view here. For starters each squad should comprise of no more than 40 players. Here’s the catch however. The entire squads have to be made up from U25 with the exception of 5 marquee players that are allowed to be over this age group. Coaches can therefore decide how they wish to spread that experience (ie props). No foreign players allowed in any capacity.
4. Rip up the current regional squad system and employ a draft policy instead similar to the NFL. Set the draft picking based on league performance by each region the previous year with lowest picking first and highest placed last. Set the number of picks allowed each year. Allow a similar trade system between regions to allow them to negotiate deals to accommodate their own requirements. In order for this system to work however it would require Regions to be severally be limited on import players and additionally set a limit to the allowable contracted players within a squad (no more than 40 for example). This would limit regions to sign up more than their allowed allotment of talent.
5. Contracts – No player should be on more than a 1 year contract per premiership club. Also reduce the salary structure so the incentive is not an income based league. Instead redirect those funds into better equipping those players to become full time professionals. It probably would end with large amounts of over 25’s plying their trade abroad (ie England lower divisions) but these costs would not be maintained by the Union and if we are being perfectly honest semi pro’s who cannot cut it at regional level shouldn’t be plying their trade in a league to nurture talent.
6. Free movement – Assuming Regions are hit by injury crisis or player strikes and have to dip into the league for resources allow players from any side to be selected without regional obligation. In return compensation fees to be paid by the regions in these instances to either the Clubs involved or the Union.
7. Return of the British and Irish Cup – Allow the top 4 to enter the B&I Cup for player development purposes. It also will give coaches and fans something to measure their progress coming up against more full time players. Regions would then be able to see in which young players are able to cope with this standard over time. Moving forward I would look at a 10 year plan to potentially make these also our Challenge Cup entries for Europe.
8. No relegation – There should be no relegation in this league. All leagues under this league should be totally unpaid and amateur in existence but still contain the usual promotion and relegation tiers.
9. Drop the affiliation between the Regions and Premiership Clubs – Allow a more fluid concept that does not draw teams at Premiership level into set districts. This goes back to free player movement but also allows these franchises to be not regionally branded.

Granted this would be a massive shake up and require a raft of changes that probably a lot of semi pro players wouldn’t be happy about but I believe that product would result in the creation of purpose built players for regional rugby. You might be asking why I have excluded 25+ players but the reality is that while there are occasional late bloomers, it is senseless to spend years of investment of player development on people who will likely only then have very short professional careers. For me this setup will ensure the generation of future players for generations.

What are your thoughts?

by LordDowlais Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:24 pm

Stone Motif wrote:A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

What has the size shape or colour got to do with how many good players you can develop and pay ?

It is all down to coaching and spotting talent and then being able to afford to keep them at a professional standard of fitness and ability. This is where we are lacking, not because we are not "Polynesian". Australia and South Africa do not have loads of "Polynesians" falling over themselves to play rugby for all their teams do they ?

by wayne Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:33 pm

Stone, the WP in your brand new world is the equivelant level now of where Bridgend Athletic were, where Scott Baldwin was before the Ospreys came in for him, and IIRC Rhys Webb was for the majority of his Junior Rugby education, so there are probably players in the Premiership today better than some in all our squads, there are many players that develop late, they have to have an outlet and if it is semi pro they will not be lost altogether.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Put up or shut up Lord D. Go on just do the Dragons if you want, how hard can it be?

I have already told you, there are not any in the prem at the moment, that is why we need to make the prem better FFS.

Also New Zealand, Australia and South Africa have everything to do with it, because not only can they manage to put out teams without any non qualified players, they can afford to let players that are not good enough to leave and come and make a living in our teams, if they can produce these players then so can we. Also, I bet Argentina will not have non qualified players in their teams as they start to develop more.

You are talking rubbish as usual, if other countries can do it, then so can we.

Lord D, you are talking horse business.You make these players better by developing them in the academies, professionally, and by having them play with other professional standard players in successful teams in a decent competition. The Premiership does not and cannot provide these things, no matter how much non
-existent money you throw at it.

This is because, and this is also why your SH point is cobblers,we don't have the ability and numbers in in a tiny country where rugby is by far and a way the second sport, and where kids are more likely to get Type II diabetes than the opportunity to get any decent sports coaching, to cast the net that wide. Resources must be concentrated.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:39 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:There are not any from the prem at them minute, not any I know of anyway. That is why I am saying we need to improve the prem, so that these players will be there.

The thing is stone, when you are on your high horse demanding that we need NWQ p t internationals are away and the what not, you are talking rubbish.

There are three countries I could point out to you that do not use non qualified players to pad out their club/franchise squads, they are not all that bad either, I cannot quite put my finger on it but the three countries have won more than one WC each, they are constantly ranked in the top 6 in the world, and were 1,2,3 ranked for most of the last and this decade. You can find them in another hemisphere.

Hmmmmmm....... I wonder how they manage ?

Put up or shut up Lord D. Go on just do the Dragons if you want, how hard can it be?

What the F New Zealand, Australia and South Africa have to do with it I cannot fathom. Apart from that being where most of our average NWQs come from of course. We could just overlook of course that those countries have a greater genetic talent pool,and also that in two of those countries rugby

Pah. If you have said bigger playing population you would have had a credible point there. So tell me, what is it "genetically" that makes SA/NZ/AUS so much greater?
A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

Dont see too many Polynesians in SA side? Who were beaten by Japan in the WC as you will remember. Still not sure of your point?

You're out of your depth here Gav. What happens when there is a recent period of trauma in a population's recent genetic history? Say, for example, internecine warfare, genocide, invasion, disease etc....?

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:43 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

What has the size shape or colour got to do with how many good players you can develop and pay ?

It is all down to coaching and spotting talent and then being able to afford to keep them at a professional standard of fitness and ability. This is where we are lacking, not because we are not "Polynesian". Australia and South Africa do not have loads of "Polynesians" falling over themselves to play rugby for all their teams do they ?

Brilliant. So with the right coaching, a white man could win gold in the next Olympic 100m sprint then?

Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:47 pm

wayne wrote:Stone, the WP in your brand new world is the equivelant level now of where Bridgend Athletic were, where Scott Baldwin was before the Ospreys came in for him, and IIRC Rhys Webb was for the majority of his Junior Rugby education, so there are probably players in the Premiership today better than some in all our squads, there are many players that develop late, they have to have an outlet and if it is semi pro they will not be lost altogether.

Junior rugby education is irrelevant. Baldwin learnt nothing until the academy picked him up.

Paying a player for not being good enough because they need an outlet is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That is what amateur sport is for.

by LordDowlais Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:48 pm

Stone Motif wrote:Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

Why not ? What is the difference between a Britsh/Irish man to an Australian man ? We all look the same to me, yet Australia do not need loads of British or Polynesians to pad out their squads.

by LordDowlais Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:55 pm

In fact, I would not say that New Zealand use loads of Polynesians to pad out their S15 squads either, yes they use a few, but for the most part, they are not.

by GavinDragon Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:57 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:There are not any from the prem at them minute, not any I know of anyway. That is why I am saying we need to improve the prem, so that these players will be there.

The thing is stone, when you are on your high horse demanding that we need NWQ p t internationals are away and the what not, you are talking rubbish.

There are three countries I could point out to you that do not use non qualified players to pad out their club/franchise squads, they are not all that bad either, I cannot quite put my finger on it but the three countries have won more than one WC each, they are constantly ranked in the top 6 in the world, and were 1,2,3 ranked for most of the last and this decade. You can find them in another hemisphere.

Hmmmmmm....... I wonder how they manage ?

Put up or shut up Lord D. Go on just do the Dragons if you want, how hard can it be?

What the F New Zealand, Australia and South Africa have to do with it I cannot fathom. Apart from that being where most of our average NWQs come from of course. We could just overlook of course that those countries have a greater genetic talent pool,and also that in two of those countries rugby

Pah. If you have said bigger playing population you would have had a credible point there. So tell me, what is it "genetically" that makes SA/NZ/AUS so much greater?
A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

Dont see too many Polynesians in SA side? Who were beaten by Japan in the WC as you will remember. Still not sure of your point?

You're out of your depth here Gav. What happens when there is a recent period of trauma in a population's recent genetic history? Say, for example, internecine warfare, genocide, invasion, disease etc....?

Quite right I am because I am completely failing to see how what you just said relates to your point.

by wayne Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:59 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:Stone, the WP in your brand new world is the equivelant level now of where Bridgend Athletic were, where Scott Baldwin was before the Ospreys came in for him, and IIRC Rhys Webb was for the majority of his Junior Rugby education, so there are probably players in the Premiership today better than some in all our squads, there are many players that develop late, they have to have an outlet and if it is semi pro they will not be lost altogether.

Junior rugby education is irrelevant. Baldwin learnt nothing until the academy picked him up.

Paying a player for not being good enough because they need an outlet is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That is what amateur sport is for.

If you're going to make comments why don't you get your facts right in the first place, Scott Baldwin was NEVER (another INANE capital word for you, which you clearly need to emphasise the point) in the Ospreys Academy, and as for absurd comments, that is nowhere near some idiots comments that he has NEVER (INANE) seen Rhys Webb have a good game and Justin Tipuric is only average.
You are truly beyond help.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

Why not ? What is the difference between a Britsh/Irish man to an Australian man ? We all look the same to me, yet Australia do not need loads of British or Polynesians to pad out their squads.

Kuridrani, Genia,Polota Nau, Toomoa, Sio, Kepu, Folau....

Yeah barely a one....

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:18 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:There are not any from the prem at them minute, not any I know of anyway. That is why I am saying we need to improve the prem, so that these players will be there.

The thing is stone, when you are on your high horse demanding that we need NWQ p t internationals are away and the what not, you are talking rubbish.

There are three countries I could point out to you that do not use non qualified players to pad out their club/franchise squads, they are not all that bad either, I cannot quite put my finger on it but the three countries have won more than one WC each, they are constantly ranked in the top 6 in the world, and were 1,2,3 ranked for most of the last and this decade. You can find them in another hemisphere.

Hmmmmmm....... I wonder how they manage ?

Put up or shut up Lord D. Go on just do the Dragons if you want, how hard can it be?

What the F New Zealand, Australia and South Africa have to do with it I cannot fathom. Apart from that being where most of our average NWQs come from of course. We could just overlook of course that those countries have a greater genetic talent pool,and also that in two of those countries rugby

Pah. If you have said bigger playing population you would have had a credible point there. So tell me, what is it "genetically" that makes SA/NZ/AUS so much greater?
A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

Dont see too many Polynesians in SA side? Who were beaten by Japan in the WC as you will remember. Still not sure of your point?

You're out of your depth here Gav. What happens when there is a recent period of trauma in a population's recent genetic history? Say, for example, internecine warfare, genocide, invasion, disease etc....?

Quite right I am because I am completely failing to see how what you just said relates to your point.

Certain populations are bigger, stronger, and faster due to their recent genetic history and therefore will produce more elite rugby players.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:21 pm

wayne wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:Stone, the WP in your brand new world is the equivelant level now of where Bridgend Athletic were, where Scott Baldwin was before the Ospreys came in for him, and IIRC Rhys Webb was for the majority of his Junior Rugby education, so there are probably players in the Premiership today better than some in all our squads, there are many players that develop late, they have to have an outlet and if it is semi pro they will not be lost altogether.

Junior rugby education is irrelevant. Baldwin learnt nothing until the academy picked him up.

Paying a player for not being good enough because they need an outlet is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That is what amateur sport is for.
If you're going to make comments why don't you get your facts right in the first place, Scott Baldwin was NEVER (another INANE capital word for you, which you clearly need to emphasise the point) in the Ospreys Academy, and as for absurd comments, that is nowhere near some idiots comments that he has NEVER (INANE) seen Rhys Webb have a good game and Justin Tipuric is only average.
You are truly beyond help.

Sorry is that post supposed to be in English?

The point remains that he learnt to be a pro in a pro environment,not playing sh1tpatch rugby for Bridgend Athletic.

by GavinDragon Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:25 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:There are not any from the prem at them minute, not any I know of anyway. That is why I am saying we need to improve the prem, so that these players will be there.

The thing is stone, when you are on your high horse demanding that we need NWQ p t internationals are away and the what not, you are talking rubbish.

There are three countries I could point out to you that do not use non qualified players to pad out their club/franchise squads, they are not all that bad either, I cannot quite put my finger on it but the three countries have won more than one WC each, they are constantly ranked in the top 6 in the world, and were 1,2,3 ranked for most of the last and this decade. You can find them in another hemisphere.

Hmmmmmm....... I wonder how they manage ?

Put up or shut up Lord D. Go on just do the Dragons if you want, how hard can it be?

What the F New Zealand, Australia and South Africa have to do with it I cannot fathom. Apart from that being where most of our average NWQs come from of course. We could just overlook of course that those countries have a greater genetic talent pool,and also that in two of those countries rugby

Pah. If you have said bigger playing population you would have had a credible point there. So tell me, what is it "genetically" that makes SA/NZ/AUS so much greater?
A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

Dont see too many Polynesians in SA side? Who were beaten by Japan in the WC as you will remember. Still not sure of your point?

You're out of your depth here Gav. What happens when there is a recent period of trauma in a population's recent genetic history? Say, for example, internecine warfare, genocide, invasion, disease etc....?

Quite right I am because I am completely failing to see how what you just said relates to your point.

Certain populations are bigger, stronger, and faster due to their recent genetic history and therefore will produce more elite rugby players.

thank you for clarifying. If that were strictly true, wouldnt SA win every world cup? I would argue that the genetic genepool in their country makes them the biggest, strongest, fastest?

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:42 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:There are not any from the prem at them minute, not any I know of anyway. That is why I am saying we need to improve the prem, so that these players will be there.

The thing is stone, when you are on your high horse demanding that we need NWQ p t internationals are away and the what not, you are talking rubbish.

There are three countries I could point out to you that do not use non qualified players to pad out their club/franchise squads, they are not all that bad either, I cannot quite put my finger on it but the three countries have won more than one WC each, they are constantly ranked in the top 6 in the world, and were 1,2,3 ranked for most of the last and this decade. You can find them in another hemisphere.

Hmmmmmm....... I wonder how they manage ?

Put up or shut up Lord D. Go on just do the Dragons if you want, how hard can it be?

What the F New Zealand, Australia and South Africa have to do with it I cannot fathom. Apart from that being where most of our average NWQs come from of course. We could just overlook of course that those countries have a greater genetic talent pool,and also that in two of those countries rugby

Pah. If you have said bigger playing population you would have had a credible point there. So tell me, what is it "genetically" that makes SA/NZ/AUS so much greater?
A large population of Polynesian heritage just for starters. Don't be a lemon.

Dont see too many Polynesians in SA side? Who were beaten by Japan in the WC as you will remember. Still not sure of your point?

You're out of your depth here Gav. What happens when there is a recent period of trauma in a population's recent genetic history? Say, for example, internecine warfare, genocide, invasion, disease etc....?

Quite right I am because I am completely failing to see how what you just said relates to your point.

Certain populations are bigger, stronger, and faster due to their recent genetic history and therefore will produce more elite rugby players.

thank you for clarifying. If that were strictly true, wouldnt SA win every world cup? I would argue that the genetic genepool in their country makes them the biggest, strongest, fastest?

Why would you say that when the only teams that consistently beat them have a similar conflict in their recent history?

The point was that certain countries have a genetic advantage in that their talent base Is bigger, and therefore you are not comparing apples with apples by saying any old player hoofing it round for Treorchy can become an elite athlete with the right coaching.

by LordDowlais Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:19 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

Why not ? What is the difference between a Britsh/Irish man to an Australian man ? We all look the same to me, yet Australia do not need loads of British or Polynesians to pad out their squads.

Kuridrani, Genia,Polota Nau, Toomoa, Sio, Kepu, Folau....

Yeah barely a one....

Are they ALL in the same team ?

And the fact that Australia and South Africa do not use them also de-bunks your nonsense.

by wayne Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:35 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:Stone, the WP in your brand new world is the equivelant level now of where Bridgend Athletic were, where Scott Baldwin was before the Ospreys came in for him, and IIRC Rhys Webb was for the majority of his Junior Rugby education, so there are probably players in the Premiership today better than some in all our squads, there are many players that develop late, they have to have an outlet and if it is semi pro they will not be lost altogether.

Junior rugby education is irrelevant. Baldwin learnt nothing until the academy picked him up.

Paying a player for not being good enough because they need an outlet is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That is what amateur sport is for.
If you're going to make comments why don't you get your facts right in the first place, Scott Baldwin was NEVER (another INANE capital word for you, which you clearly need to emphasise the point) in the Ospreys Academy, and as for absurd comments, that is nowhere near some idiots comments that he has NEVER (INANE) seen Rhys Webb have a good game and Justin Tipuric is only average.
You are truly beyond help.
Sorry is that post supposed to be in English?

The point remains that he learnt to be a pro in a pro environment,not playing sh1tpatch rugby for Bridgend Athletic.

There is a lot more sense in that post than you've said on here in your entire posting history, you cannot alter the fact, he was picked up outside of the Premiership, and outside of the Academy system, because they thought he would make an Osprey, I also wouldn't mind betting that you would find similar players in all the Welsh teams, perhaps not at his standard but good enough to keep some of the NWQ players out of their squads, and you are prepared to stop somebody who could be in the same position as a Semi- Professional in the future.
I stopped responding to you in the past, because of your ridiculous statements, I shall have to do the same again and make it permanent this time, I will not put you on ignore because I enjoy a good laugh.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:53 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

Why not ? What is the difference between a Britsh/Irish man to an Australian man ? We all look the same to me, yet Australia do not need loads of British or Polynesians to pad out their squads.

Kuridrani, Genia,Polota Nau, Toomoa, Sio, Kepu, Folau....

Yeah barely a one....

Are they ALL in the same team ?

And the fact that Australia and South Africa do not use them also de-bunks your nonsense.

I....

No, sorry Lord Davies that last one is just incomprehensible B'S, you'll have to run it by me again.

by LordDowlais Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:56 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

Why not ? What is the difference between a Britsh/Irish man to an Australian man ? We all look the same to me, yet Australia do not need loads of British or Polynesians to pad out their squads.

Kuridrani, Genia,Polota Nau, Toomoa, Sio, Kepu, Folau....

Yeah barely a one....

Are they ALL in the same team ?

And the fact that Australia and South Africa do not use them also de-bunks your nonsense.

I....

No, sorry Lord Davies that last one is just incomprehensible B'S, you'll have to run it by me again.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:06 pm

wayne wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:Stone, the WP in your brand new world is the equivelant level now of where Bridgend Athletic were, where Scott Baldwin was before the Ospreys came in for him, and IIRC Rhys Webb was for the majority of his Junior Rugby education, so there are probably players in the Premiership today better than some in all our squads, there are many players that develop late, they have to have an outlet and if it is semi pro they will not be lost altogether.

Junior rugby education is irrelevant. Baldwin learnt nothing until the academy picked him up.

Paying a player for not being good enough because they need an outlet is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That is what amateur sport is for.
If you're going to make comments why don't you get your facts right in the first place, Scott Baldwin was NEVER (another INANE capital word for you, which you clearly need to emphasise the point) in the Ospreys Academy, and as for absurd comments, that is nowhere near some idiots comments that he has NEVER (INANE) seen Rhys Webb have a good game and Justin Tipuric is only average.
You are truly beyond help.
Sorry is that post supposed to be in English?

The point remains that he learnt to be a pro in a pro environment,not playing sh1tpatch rugby for Bridgend Athletic.
There is a lot more sense in that post than you've said on here in your entire posting history, you cannot alter the fact, he was picked up outside of the Premiership, and outside of the Academy system, because they thought he would make an Osprey, I also wouldn't mind betting that you would find similar players in all the Welsh teams, perhaps not at his standard but good enough to keep some of the NWQ players out of their squads, and you are prepared to stop somebody who could be in the same position as a Semi- Professional in the future.
I stopped responding to you in the past, because of your ridiculous statements, I shall have to do the same again and make it permanent this time, I will not put you on ignore because I enjoy a good laugh.

I can't tell if there's anything of substance there or not. My three year old makes his point more coherently,and with better grammar.

As stated to Lord D, there's no need to gamble, just name these players? Even just a few?

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Most of our playing population do not have the genetics to reach or maintain an elite level of fitness.

Why not ? What is the difference between a Britsh/Irish man to an Australian man ? We all look the same to me, yet Australia do not need loads of British or Polynesians to pad out their squads.

Kuridrani, Genia,Polota Nau, Toomoa, Sio, Kepu, Folau....

Yeah barely a one....

Are they ALL in the same team ?

And the fact that Australia and South Africa do not use them also de-bunks your nonsense.

I....

No, sorry Lord Davies that last one is just incomprehensible B'S, you'll have to run it by me again.

Great, thanks Rolling Eyes

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:27 pm

The good, the bad and the blydi ugly. Smashing thread.

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:48 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
gcBlues wrote:Welsh premiership should be purely amateur.

Why ?

We need the prem as a tool to develop players just having "A" sides will not be enough. What we need to do is reduce the amount of average NWQ players we have here in Wales.

Depend what's planned for the A sides.

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:32 pm

GavinDragon wrote:so what would you like to see?

If only Richard Holland would ask me this question.

by mikey_dragon Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:22 pm

There's a lot of fantasy here. The prem should not be professional, that's idiotic. It also should not be amateur - leave it at semi-pro because it's one of the things in Welsh rugby that actually works pretty well. As a development tool it's also useful, in that regional academy lads aged 16-21 can be exposed to a high level of rugby on a regular basis until they can break into their (or another) region. After 21 it becomes less likely year by year that they will make it in the professional arena - there are few exceptions to this and there are even less that miss academy rugby and still make it (Scott Baldwin, Liam Williams). The only changes I'd make is to increase the number of teams and ring fence it. In an ideal world it would also include a few teams from north wales, but seeing the level that their region is currently at we can forget it for now. Also perhaps the wru should step in and block the money men pumping money into these teams so that there can be an equal footing for all teams - if they'd like to put money somewhere then I suggest it be a regional team!

With Blues new philosophy on rugby, where will all their academy players be playing when the BIC isn't on?

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:50 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:There's a lot of fantasy here. The prem should not be professional, that's idiotic. It also should not be amateur - leave it at semi-pro because it's one of the things in Welsh rugby that actually works pretty well. As a development tool it's also useful, in that regional academy lads aged 16-21 can be exposed to a high level of rugby on a regular basis until they can break into their (or another) region. After 21 it becomes less likely year by year that they will make it in the professional arena - there are few exceptions to this and there are even less that miss academy rugby and still make it (Scott Baldwin, Liam Williams). The only changes I'd make is to increase the number of teams and ring fence it. In an ideal world it would also include a few teams from north wales, but seeing the level that their region is currently at we can forget it for now. Also perhaps the wru should step in and block the money men pumping money into these teams so that there can be an equal footing for all teams - if they'd like to put money somewhere then I suggest it be a regional team!

With Blues new philosophy on rugby, where will all their academy players be playing when the BIC isn't on?

A mini A team league perhaps plus the odd game against English championship clubs? Dunno really, but something's afoot if you ask me.

by mikey_dragon Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:31 pm

That's where I'd keep the premiership, so long as we can allow for some warm-up games before the BIC. So yes, that means farming the academy and other A players to the likes of Pontypridd et al.

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:That's where I'd keep the premiership, so long as we can allow for some warm-up games before the BIC. So yes, that means farming the academy and other A players to the likes of Pontypridd et al.

Thought the idea was to keep the academy boys under one roof, under one coaching set up and not farm them out willy nilly to prem clubs.

by mikey_dragon Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:19 pm

Why don't they let them play regular rugby instead though?

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:29 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Why don't they let them play regular rugby instead though?

Maybe that's the plan for the A teams.

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:06 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Why don't they let them play regular rugby instead though?

There again the academy players could all turn out for The Rags in the WP aided by a few pros - shock, horror, probe, etc. Who knows? I don't that's for sure.

by Stone Motif Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:There's a lot of fantasy here. The prem should not be professional, that's idiotic. It also should not be amateur - leave it at semi-pro because it's one of the things in Welsh rugby that actually works pretty well. As a development tool it's also useful, in that regional academy lads aged 16-21 can be exposed to a high level of rugby on a regular basis until they can break into their (or another) region. After 21 it becomes less likely year by year that they will make it in the professional arena - there are few exceptions to this and there are even less that miss academy rugby and still make it (Scott Baldwin, Liam Williams). The only changes I'd make is to increase the number of teams and ring fence it. In an ideal world it would also include a few teams from north wales, but seeing the level that their region is currently at we can forget it for now. Also perhaps the wru should step in and block the money men pumping money into these teams so that there can be an equal footing for all teams - if they'd like to put money somewhere then I suggest it be a regional team!

With Blues new philosophy on rugby, where will all their academy players be playing when the BIC isn't on?

To claim it's a useful development tool is lunacy given by far the best players in it are the academy players.If they are good enough they need better opposition to challenge them to develop and if they're not quite good enough hey get dragged down to the shamateur level of the guys around them.

by Cardiff Dave Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:23 pm

“We have spoken to Cardiff RFC’s rugby committee and they have identified it’s probably the right thing for them to have more control over their core of players.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/cardiff-blues-stop-providing-players-10432970

by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:10 am

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There's a lot of fantasy here. The prem should not be professional, that's idiotic. It also should not be amateur - leave it at semi-pro because it's one of the things in Welsh rugby that actually works pretty well. As a development tool it's also useful, in that regional academy lads aged 16-21 can be exposed to a high level of rugby on a regular basis until they can break into their (or another) region. After 21 it becomes less likely year by year that they will make it in the professional arena - there are few exceptions to this and there are even less that miss academy rugby and still make it (Scott Baldwin, Liam Williams). The only changes I'd make is to increase the number of teams and ring fence it. In an ideal world it would also include a few teams from north wales, but seeing the level that their region is currently at we can forget it for now. Also perhaps the wru should step in and block the money men pumping money into these teams so that there can be an equal footing for all teams - if they'd like to put money somewhere then I suggest it be a regional team!

With Blues new philosophy on rugby, where will all their academy players be playing when the BIC isn't on?

To claim it's a useful development tool is lunacy given by far the best players in it are the academy players.If they are good enough they need better opposition to challenge them to develop and if they're not quite good enough hey get dragged down to the shamateur level of the guys around them.

Stone it's really quite simple. The academy don't have games all season long - neither does the BIC run throughout the season. Therefore the premiership is a very good tool for those in the age bracket I penned out. The Welsh premiership is there all season and that's a fact. A fact, unlike the fantasy proposals you've come out with.

You should also note that some of the top players aren't current academy players.

by Stone Motif Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:03 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There's a lot of fantasy here. The prem should not be professional, that's idiotic. It also should not be amateur - leave it at semi-pro because it's one of the things in Welsh rugby that actually works pretty well. As a development tool it's also useful, in that regional academy lads aged 16-21 can be exposed to a high level of rugby on a regular basis until they can break into their (or another) region. After 21 it becomes less likely year by year that they will make it in the professional arena - there are few exceptions to this and there are even less that miss academy rugby and still make it (Scott Baldwin, Liam Williams). The only changes I'd make is to increase the number of teams and ring fence it. In an ideal world it would also include a few teams from north wales, but seeing the level that their region is currently at we can forget it for now. Also perhaps the wru should step in and block the money men pumping money into these teams so that there can be an equal footing for all teams - if they'd like to put money somewhere then I suggest it be a regional team!

With Blues new philosophy on rugby, where will all their academy players be playing when the BIC isn't on?

To claim it's a useful development tool is lunacy given by far the best players in it are the academy players.If they are good enough they need better opposition to challenge them to develop and if they're not quite good enough hey get dragged down to the shamateur level of the guys around them.

Stone it's really quite simple. The academy don't have games all season long - neither does the BIC run throughout the season. Therefore the premiership is a very good tool for those in the age bracket I penned out. The Welsh premiership is there all season and that's a fact. A fact, unlike the fantasy proposals you've come out with.

You should also note that some of the top players aren't current academy players.

That's garbage. The Academy players need for regular rugby doesn't equate to a need to be playing at a level beneath them.

Why is involvement in the English A sides fantasy?

by GavinDragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:17 am

Regional premier select sides will play in the LV next year I reckon. That's a minimum of 6 games. If they were to play other regions home and away that's another 6 games so 12. Add in a few more vs Gloucester Worcester bristol and bath that's 16

by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:14 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There's a lot of fantasy here. The prem should not be professional, that's idiotic. It also should not be amateur - leave it at semi-pro because it's one of the things in Welsh rugby that actually works pretty well. As a development tool it's also useful, in that regional academy lads aged 16-21 can be exposed to a high level of rugby on a regular basis until they can break into their (or another) region. After 21 it becomes less likely year by year that they will make it in the professional arena - there are few exceptions to this and there are even less that miss academy rugby and still make it (Scott Baldwin, Liam Williams). The only changes I'd make is to increase the number of teams and ring fence it. In an ideal world it would also include a few teams from north wales, but seeing the level that their region is currently at we can forget it for now. Also perhaps the wru should step in and block the money men pumping money into these teams so that there can be an equal footing for all teams - if they'd like to put money somewhere then I suggest it be a regional team!

With Blues new philosophy on rugby, where will all their academy players be playing when the BIC isn't on?

To claim it's a useful development tool is lunacy given by far the best players in it are the academy players.If they are good enough they need better opposition to challenge them to develop and if they're not quite good enough hey get dragged down to the shamateur level of the guys around them.

Stone it's really quite simple. The academy don't have games all season long - neither does the BIC run throughout the season. Therefore the premiership is a very good tool for those in the age bracket I penned out. The Welsh premiership is there all season and that's a fact. A fact, unlike the fantasy proposals you've come out with.

You should also note that some of the top players aren't current academy players.

That's garbage. The Academy players need for regular rugby doesn't equate to a need to be playing at a level beneath them.

Why is involvement in the English A sides fantasy?

No it isn't, it's true. If you're an academy player for the u18's then premiership rugby is a step up, unless you skipped all that (George North). Therefore premiership rugby is a good tool.

Because it's not happening.

by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:16 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Regional premier select sides will play in the LV next year I reckon. That's a minimum of 6 games. If they were to play other regions home and away that's another 6 games so 12. Add in a few more vs Gloucester Worcester bristol and bath that's 16

I hope not. Look at the scores from Scarlets vs Bedford and Yorkshire vs Ospreys - so playing against the premiership sides seems ludicrous. It's great they've done away with the LV cup, joke competition.

by GavinDragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:02 pm

they haven't. Only this year the LV isnt running.

And to beat the best you have to play the best regularly. What better breeding ground for our academy prospects then them playing in a regional select/a side against some of the english a sides

by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:26 pm

GavinDragon wrote:they haven't. Only this year the LV isnt running.

And to beat the best you have to play the best regularly. What better breeding ground for our academy prospects then them playing in a regional select/a side against some of the english a sides

They're A teams. They'll be shipping lots of points regularly. The fringe players in the regions were even struggling to get results in this comp. So throwing our 'A teams' into a competition that isn't an A league just seems counterproductive to me.

by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:37 pm

Also, the premiership A teams actually have their own league. You originally didn't say A teams. For now our regional selects play against Bedord, Bristol, Leeds (Yorkshire) which is good competition - as are the Irish provincial A teams.

by Stone Motif Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:50 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:they haven't. Only this year the LV isnt running.

And to beat the best you have to play the best regularly. What better breeding ground for our academy prospects then them playing in a regional select/a side against some of the english a sides

They're A teams. They'll be shipping lots of points regularly. The fringe players in the regions were even struggling to get results in this comp. So throwing our 'A teams' into a competition that isn't an A league just seems counterproductive to me.

That'll be why our players are such flat track bully boys at international level then.

by mikey_dragon Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:09 am

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:they haven't. Only this year the LV isnt running.

And to beat the best you have to play the best regularly. What better breeding ground for our academy prospects then them playing in a regional select/a side against some of the english a sides

They're A teams. They'll be shipping lots of points regularly. The fringe players in the regions were even struggling to get results in this comp. So throwing our 'A teams' into a competition that isn't an A league just seems counterproductive to me.

That'll be why our players are such flat track bully boys at international level then.

You've lost me again - I assume you're going off on a tangent now that you've stopped buying your own BS. At least you've dropped the fantasy proposals, for now.

by Stone Motif Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:05 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:they haven't. Only this year the LV isnt running.

And to beat the best you have to play the best regularly. What better breeding ground for our academy prospects then them playing in a regional select/a side against some of the english a sides

They're A teams. They'll be shipping lots of points regularly. The fringe players in the regions were even struggling to get results in this comp. So throwing our 'A teams' into a competition that isn't an A league just seems counterproductive to me.

That'll be why our players are such flat track bully boys at international level then.

You've lost me again - I assume you're going off on a tangent now that you've stopped buying your own BS. At least you've dropped the fantasy proposals, for now.

Nope. You're just as thick as cachu mochyn.

by GavinDragon Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:51 am

Sticks and stone

by XR Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:37 am

Some people need to open their eyes. Next season will see A teams created fully and they will play in BIC, LV (if it's retained) and I wouldn't be surprised if they went and played against the English teams a sides.

by GavinDragon Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:41 am

Agreed

by Stone Motif Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:28 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Sticks and stone

by Cardiff Dave Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:09 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Sticks and stone

Wise guy. Wish i'd thought it. Very Happy

by Cardiff Dave Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:31 pm

gcBlues wrote:Some people need to open their eyes. Next season will see A teams created fully and they will play in BIC, LV (if it's retained) and I wouldn't be surprised if they went and played against the English teams a sides.

Something's afoot I reckon concerning the WP and the A teams.

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