Eddie Jones - England's New Coach

First topic message reminder :

So the worst kept secret is out...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12005671/Eddie-Jones-to-be-confirmed-as-England-head-coach-in-next-24-hours.html

Jury's out on this one, will have to see how the 6Ns goes then ponder his selection.

They obviously feel its a fair deal themselves fa.

Money talks ebop. Sport isn't fair but this is a settlement to buy him out. They're not left empty handed or forced into anything. Not really sure who is the best of the best but Jones appears pretty handy.

ebop wrote:

nathan wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

oh well, its a professional sport

Karma can be a bitch though, oh well.

So the logic is, the wealthiest 'deserve' to have the best of the best, because they can?

Not that Eddie is in that category.

SA Rugby put a price on it and the RFU paid it. What do people see wrong with the logic there?

ebop wrote:

nathan wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

oh well, its a professional sport

Karma can be a bitch though, oh well.

So the logic is, the wealthiest 'deserve' to have the best of the best, because they can?

Not that Eddie is in that category.

Who would blame Eddie to be fair?

If you haven't won the world cup or still have the desire to do so then its an obvious choice and England always have the opportunity at least to win the world cup. Taking charge of a celtic team then yes you can compete but resource wise you are up against it, with England if you back yourself you know its a difficult role to turn down.

WP is one of the finest clubs in the world.. but the world cup is the world cup. Its the Everest of rugby.

Gatland etc... he knows if he does well he can get the AB job after Hansen. That's his goal. He wouldn't get that if he coached England.

nathan wrote:

munkian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides"  aswell......

These 'types' of comments ?

You mean ones written without wearing rose c***ed glasses ?

Or those from other countries that can't stand to see anything positive for england

So rugby fans from other countries can only have positive opinions about English rugby ? Noted.

I assume it works both ways ?

It's always nice to get balanced views, sometimes people find that hard to provide though.

munkian wrote:

nathan wrote:

munkian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides"  aswell......

These 'types' of comments ?

You mean ones written without wearing rose c***ed glasses ?

Or those from other countries that can't stand to see anything positive for england

So rugby fans from other countries can only have positive opinions about English rugby ? Noted.

I assume it works both ways ?

You assume a lot don't you.....

No 7&1/2 wrote:They obviously feel its a fair deal themselves fa.

Money talks ebop. Sport isn't fair but this is a settlement to buy him out. They're not left empty handed or forced into anything. Not really sure who is the best of the best but Jones appears pretty handy.

Contractually they probably didn't have a foot to stand on. Equally if they did does it work well to have a coach who doesn't want to work for you?

Yeah you're right nathan there was nothing untoward from the RFUs perspective. Not having a pop at them at all. They needed a coach and went to the market or headhunted their man (or men). But the rich get richer vibe I don't really like in sport. But that's just because we're poor.

Eddie was pretty wily signing a contract that allowed an opt out or a measly £100k buy out clause. He probably took the Stormers job knowing there 'could' be opportunities after the RWC to coach teams that performed below expectations at flicked their coach. It turned out to be England and I bet he couldn't believe his luck. Maybe it's just hindsight, but you begin to wonder how committed he was to the Stormers in the first place?

Everyone's a winner.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Everyone's a winner.

aint that the truth

Virtually all the candidates England looked at were under contract, so I can't feel too sorry for the Stormers.

Andy Farrell had a contract with Saracens when Lancaster asked him to stay on. Brian Ashton had just joined Bath to coach them when England bought him out ten years ago. It's hardly a new chapter in rugby, and all of the English candidates mentioned this time around, bar Woodward, are under contract.

Vacancies don't come up at predictable times, and if a candidate is any good, then it's almost certain that he'll already be in a job.

Was that suit Rowntrees before? It looks 3 sizes too big for him.

I actually do feel for the Stormers, their top players are constantly nicked by French teams and now their big name coach has gone too.

We will see how this pans out, his first training squad will be interesting.

ebop wrote:Yeah you're right nathan there was nothing untoward from the RFUs perspective. Not having a pop at them at all. They needed a coach and went to the market or headhunted their man (or men). But the rich get richer vibe I don't really like in sport. But that's just because we're poor.

Eddie was pretty wily signing a contract that allowed an opt out or a measly £100k buy out clause. He probably took the Stormers job knowing there 'could' be opportunities after the RWC to coach teams that performed below expectations at flicked their coach. It turned out to be England and I bet he couldn't believe his luck. Maybe it's just hindsight, but you begin to wonder how committed he was to the Stormers in the first place?

It's pretty standard for every coach to have a contract that allows them a get-out if an international job comes calling. It's also pretty standard for the club to have a clause that specifies the compensation. There's no big deal there. It happens all the time in sport when people move clubs. And £100k is a small fraction of the annual salary for an international head coach, so most nations could afford it.

As for other things that have already surfaced on this discussion. There's a lot of assuming going on. For instance, Jones on Robshaw: "All players are starting on zero, there is always an opportunity to change things. I wasn't head coach of England, I was writing a column. I was probably being a bit naughty." That doesn't guarantee anything, but it does say that you should take anything he's previously said about England with a pinch of salt. Confucius he say "Man with newspaper to sell speak with spiked tongue".

It's depressing to see that the usual pre-6N posturing has started early this year. Good on you all. I think it's going to be a very competitive 6N next year. Wales have blooded a bunch of new players, and I think Scotland will continue their upward curve. Ireland are likely to be rebuilding, France are [gallic shrug].

But it's a bit daft to write England - under a new coaching team - off before you've seen them play. In the RWC they tried too many things that didn't come off (reshaping their forwards, adopting a passive approach to the breakdown, bench strategy) and let the Aussies win the media and refs over on the scrum (if the opposing front row all walk sideways, then of course the loosehead will look like he's boring in). All of those faults are fixable, and fixable as quickly as they were introduced. Scotland will be a proper test for the first time in some years. I'm going to try to reserve judgement until after that game.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Was that suit Rowntrees before? It looks 3 sizes too big for him.

I actually do feel for the Stormers, their top players are constantly nicked by French teams and now their big name coach has gone too.

We will see how this pans out, his first training squad will be interesting.

To be fair.....

A* players tend to stay.
B* players tend to move.
C* players tend to stay.

Therefore first choice players tend to be backed up by third choice. The ones which leave are usually fringe internationals/those who didn't make it. Steven Kitsoff is a typical case. He'll play for France one day. Perhaps should have been capped but was not a 80 cap wonder, more likely at best a 20 cap decent squad player bok wise.

There are benefits. Youngsters tend to get earlier shots at jersey's.

Stormers fans can dry there eyes.

SA system is a complete cluster Smeg, of course he would always pick England over Stormers. More money, Government not affecting you and your decisions.

Might feel sorry if everything is fine in SA rugby but it isn't really, so i can't blame someone for leaving when the opportunity of something bigger comes along.

Welly wrote: Stormers fans can dry there eyes.

SA system is a complete cluster Smeg, of course he would always pick England over Stormers. More money, Government not affecting you and your decisions.

Might feel sorry if everything is fine in SA rugby but it isn't really, so i can't blame someone for leaving when the opportunity of something bigger comes along.

A little harsh since he's only been in country a week.

fa0019 wrote:

Welly wrote: Stormers fans can dry there eyes.

SA system is a complete cluster Smeg, of course he would always pick England over Stormers. More money, Government not affecting you and your decisions.

Might feel sorry if everything is fine in SA rugby but it isn't really, so i can't blame someone for leaving when the opportunity of something bigger comes along.

A little harsh since he's only been in country a week.

Maybe just fed up of comments on facebook.

But it is RFU has a big reputation of being difficult but the SA rugby system seems like it is unpredictable, the Government gets involved with Super rugby clubs as well as international roles, Look at the mess with the Kings which has gone crazy.

just don't see how anyone can moan about it, He has said he will help out in December, Stormers still have time to get a good coach. It's not like he has left on the eve of the first game.

it's the pro era. He has no ties with the club before hand he isn't South African, I don't get why he should have so much loyalty to turn down more money, more years on contract with a bigger union.

One thing that's probably a given, now that Eddie Jones is in charge of England, is that the experiment in humility will probably be put to bed now.
Eddie is on record as not liking humility and niceness - certainly in rugby.  He'll want his players cocky and assured again.  Back to the good old days for England when players said what they really felt and, boy, it's either something to intimidate or something for opposition to get their teeth into. We have another shoot-from-the-hip mouthy coach that doesn't mind ruffling feathers. It should be a ball between himself and Gatland for the next few seasons

So, like someone said at the beginning of this thread; time will tell whether Eddie's version of England works in the short term (6N) or the long term over the next number of years.

He'll demand a lot because he assumes he has a lot (resources).  So players won't be expected to perform - he'll be demanding it, and talking straight about it if it doesn't happen.  So I think competition will only increase now between the prospective players - obviously a good thing.

But in Japan he had a lot of 'yes' men - he even alluded to it himself.  He tells them to move left, they move left.  He says who to pass it to in a certain move and that's who gets it.  Clockwork because that's the conditioning of the Japanese.  It might not be so smooth with English players on that score.

SecretFly wrote:One thing that's probably a given, now that Eddie Jones is in charge of England, is that the experiment in humility will probably be put to bed now.

Lets be honest fly, the game was only invented because that smug little english gobshoite Web Ellis thought he would get away with blatantly picking up the ball in a game of Soccer, such an experiment was never likely to last long.

Don't worry about the Stormers - Mitchell will slot seamlessly into that role and Western Province rugby will certainly take their pound of flesh for being put to considerable inconvenience.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:One thing that's probably a given, now that Eddie Jones is in charge of England, is that the experiment in humility will probably be put to bed now.

Lets be honest fly, the game was only invented because that smug little english gobshoite Web Ellis thought he would get away with blatantly picking up the ball in a game of Soccer, such an experiment was never likely to last long.

"F**kin Irish, mate!  Let's be 'avin' 'em!  Ger owth of my way you poxy little Bilbo Baggins Hobbit basterde!!!  We got no time for this Meeting of the President guff!"

Ahhhhh.... it'll be nice to be back to the good times.

Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force. Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

But under the rule he could bring in players if he wanted to anyway as there is a exceptional circumstances clause

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

Maybe just Maybe he agrees with it now he has had a looked from the inside.

Lets face Fat Armitage and Bendy would have made no difference in our world cup as much as people like to kiss there arses, Why? because Lancaster didn't want them he had a traditional 7 in Kvesic but he never played him.

The overseas rule is fine.

We are fine for 7's ATM and 15's.

nathan wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

But under the rule he could bring in players if he wanted to anyway as there is a exceptional circumstances clause

As could have SL if wanted but I wonder if the RFU will be more open to Jones bringing them in given the small fortune they have paid.

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

Maybe just Maybe he agrees with it now he has had a looked from the inside.

Lets face Fat Armitage and Bendy would have made no difference in our world cup as much as people like to kiss there arses, Why? because Lancaster didn't want them he had a traditional 7 in Kvesic but he never played him.

The overseas rule is fine.

We are fine for 7's ATM and 15's.

Welly,

For what its I dont buy into the Armitage being the saviour etc given the side he plays in but just wonder if Jones will be allowed to use him if sees fit.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

Maybe just Maybe he agrees with it now he has had a looked from the inside.

Lets face Fat Armitage and Bendy would have made no difference in our world cup as much as people like to kiss there arses, Why? because Lancaster didn't want them he had a traditional 7 in Kvesic but he never played him.

The overseas rule is fine.

We are fine for 7's ATM and 15's.

Welly,

For what its I dont buy into the Armitage being the saviour etc given the side he plays in but just wonder if Jones will be allowed to use him if sees fit.

It's not a RFU matter that is a PRL matter.

I doubt the RFU would careBut the PRL have control of the players availability for training etc.

Jones has said he wants a positive and close working partnership with PRL.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:One thing that's probably a given, now that Eddie Jones is in charge of England, is that the experiment in humility will probably be put to bed now.

Lets be honest fly, the game was only invented because that smug little english gobshoite Web Ellis thought he would get away with blatantly picking up the ball in a game of Soccer, such an experiment was never likely to last long.

Not strictly true, of course. Webb Ellis's crime wasn't picking the ball up or even catching it, but running with it having caught it. And soccer is actually the johnny-come-lately in all this: of the various attempts in the late 1800s to standardise the hundreds of different styles of football across the country, Rugby was the first to catch on. The Association Football rules weren't written until about 25 years later... making it very much nouveau riche.

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

Maybe just Maybe he agrees with it now he has had a looked from the inside.

Lets face Fat Armitage and Bendy would have made no difference in our world cup as much as people like to kiss there arses, Why? because Lancaster didn't want them he had a traditional 7 in Kvesic but he never played him.

The overseas rule is fine.

We are fine for 7's ATM and 15's.

Welly,

For what its I dont buy into the Armitage being the saviour etc given the side he plays in but just wonder if Jones will be allowed to use him if sees fit.

It's not a RFU matter that is a PRL matter.

I doubt the RFU would careBut the PRL have control of the players availability for training etc.

Jones has said he wants a positive and close working partnership with PRL.

Isn't it the RFU that have said no overseas players though unless in exceptional circumstances etc? If he picked lets say Armitage then he would still be available for all training inside the rugby windows similar to Welsh players.

I can't see Wales having much of a problem here come the 6 Nations, we've been keeping up with the Jones's for years

I am certainly happy so far. I like his comments on developing Englands own style and not copying the All Blacks. I have felt for some time that many of our problems have stemmed from losing a strong foundation. Poor scrummaging, weak on the gain line and hardly a rollingmaul in several years. Forwards being picked based on ther tackle count and metres covered rather than being hard bast*rds winning and keeping hold of the ball.

But I do think SL brough on our ability ball in hand. The off-loading and threat is reflected in the amount of tries England have scored in the last two 6Ns. Hopefully EJ can get the best of both worlds. He certainly understands what other sides fear about England and that is a good start.

Plus he also talks about focussing on the Scotland game. Forget all that rubbish about blooding players for 2019 and let us try and win a 6Ns or even a Grand Slam. Pick our best side and go passionately after short term goals and the long term will take care of itself. Develop a winning team and then when new players are introduced they will be educated in a much better environment than previously when defeats in the autumn and 2nd in the 6Ns was seen as alright.

RubyGuby wrote:I can't see Wales having much of a problem here come the 6 Nations, we've been keeping up with the Jones's for years

I'd see it differently, Ruby. I suggest that with the number of Jones in Wales, Welsh rugby must have an anti-Jones policy in operation considering how few of them actually gets a sniff of the team. The UN will be informed!

It all sounds very familiar

New coach, new England, new attitude.

Same as the old boss.

Poorfour wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:One thing that's probably a given, now that Eddie Jones is in charge of England, is that the experiment in humility will probably be put to bed now.

Lets be honest fly, the game was only invented because that smug little english gobshoite Web Ellis thought he would get away with blatantly picking up the ball in a game of Soccer, such an experiment was never likely to last long.

Not strictly true, of course. Webb Ellis's crime wasn't picking the ball up or even catching it, but running with it having caught it.

Well in some NH teams that's still a crime.

When will the rest of his set up be announced?

SecretFly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I can't see Wales having much of a problem here come the 6 Nations, we've been keeping up with the Jones's for years

I'd see it differently, Ruby.  I suggest that with the number of Jones in Wales, Welsh rugby must have an anti-Jones policy in operation considering how few of them actually gets a sniff of the team.  The UN will be informed!  

Wasn't their a test match about a decade ago when the entire front 5 were Jones'?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

Maybe just Maybe he agrees with it now he has had a looked from the inside.

Lets face Fat Armitage and Bendy would have made no difference in our world cup as much as people like to kiss there arses, Why? because Lancaster didn't want them he had a traditional 7 in Kvesic but he never played him.

The overseas rule is fine.

We are fine for 7's ATM and 15's.

Welly,

For what its I dont buy into the Armitage being the saviour etc given the side he plays in but just wonder if Jones will be allowed to use him if sees fit.

It's not a RFU matter that is a PRL matter.

I doubt the RFU would careBut the PRL have control of the players availability for training etc.

Jones has said he wants a positive and close working partnership with PRL.

Isn't it the RFU that have said no overseas players though unless in exceptional circumstances etc? If he picked lets say Armitage then he would still be available for all training inside the rugby windows similar to Welsh players.

don't think you get what i am saying.

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I can't see Wales having much of a problem here come the 6 Nations, we've been keeping up with the Jones's for years

I'd see it differently, Ruby.  I suggest that with the number of Jones in Wales, Welsh rugby must have an anti-Jones policy in operation considering how few of them actually gets a sniff of the team.  The UN will be informed!  

Wasn't their a test match about a decade ago when the entire front 5 were Jones'?

A decade ago. I'd say a fair quota would be 8 or so

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I can't see Wales having much of a problem here come the 6 Nations, we've been keeping up with the Jones's for years

I'd see it differently, Ruby.  I suggest that with the number of Jones in Wales, Welsh rugby must have an anti-Jones policy in operation considering how few of them actually gets a sniff of the team.  The UN will be informed!  

Wasn't their a test match about a decade ago when the entire front 5 were Jones'?

A decade ago.  I'd say a fair quota would be 8 or so

All I know is that Mrs Jones gets around a bit!

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Welly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Apologies if this already been covered but how much of a free reign will if he have, hasn't it already been stated that the overseas rule will stay in force.  Which means his hands are being tied from the off.

Maybe just Maybe he agrees with it now he has had a looked from the inside.

Lets face Fat Armitage and Bendy would have made no difference in our world cup as much as people like to kiss there arses, Why? because Lancaster didn't want them he had a traditional 7 in Kvesic but he never played him.

The overseas rule is fine.

We are fine for 7's ATM and 15's.

Welly,

For what its I dont buy into the Armitage being the saviour etc given the side he plays in but just wonder if Jones will be allowed to use him if sees fit.

It's not a RFU matter that is a PRL matter.

I doubt the RFU would careBut the PRL have control of the players availability for training etc.

Jones has said he wants a positive and close working partnership with PRL.

Isn't it the RFU that have said no overseas players though unless in exceptional circumstances etc? If he picked lets say Armitage then he would still be available for all training inside the rugby windows similar to Welsh players.

don't think you get what i am saying.

You're right I don't.

A bulldog spirit? Is this the latest mantra? And according to Eddie when Ian flew to Cape town he told him he wanted a WINNING Team.

Absolutely love the noises coming from Eddie Jones already. He wants to beat Scotland and then whoever comes next etc. Brilliant, that's exactly what a coach should be doing. He's also happy with the to play for England you must play in England policy. Brilliant that exactly right too. If Eddie keeps sounding so 100% sensible then England have got themselves a gem. I just hope people support him even if they don't quite agree with him/RFU.

4ever,

Guess all will be ok as long as the results go your way. People were for a while happy with Sl and happy with the fact that he was sticking to the play in England to play for England stance despite all the clamour for Armitage.

So lets see how it goes whilst Armitage is still ignored and see how they react if things dont go your way.

His first squad will be interesting.

That's a good point.  
England came in second in 2012 and everyone was happy.  Gave Lancaster the permanent position.
England came in second in 2013 and everyone was optimistic, but disappointed about the missed opportunity.
England came in second in 2014 and people were more concerned about the missed opportunity
England came in second in 2015 and people were very concerned about coming up just short again.
England came up a crapper in the RWC.

So, Eddie must avoid coming in second???????

Yep, finish 3rd and he'll be fine

munkian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides"  aswell......

These 'types' of comments ?

You mean ones written without wearing rose c***ed glasses ?

Not wearing any rose c***ed glasses....

The SA team gave a value for which they would release the manager....England matched it. If they didn't want to let him go should have made it a ridiculous figure.

And as for these "types" of comments...
Since the WC the amount of aggressive uncalled for cr*p directed at England and English fans has been unbelievable. I genuinely hope Eddie turns the potential into reality to shut up a few other nations fans.

Anyway apologies for that side track.

I like this interview when Eddie first took over Japan and they got humped by French Barbarians...

Check out 2.50. "To win games you have to go out and physically smash people"...that's an attitude I like to hear as I think its one that's been missing from this England team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040Zu9MQ0p8

Some comments here from people who have worked with Jones.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12006691/Eddie-Jones-will-definitely-be-a-success-with-England.html

Rod Kafer

We spoke recently about the English performance at the World Cup and there were some very obvious things that the English team were lacking at the tournament. Speed, the ability to play at pace and playing with the ball in play for as long as possible is what defines the best teams in international rugby. In comparison when you look at how England prepared for the World Cup, it was certainly not around those principles.

One of the features of Eddie’s coaching style has always been a very high ball in play time. The Strength and conditioning element of his team will have a very high importance as will the ongoing skill development of any team he coaches. I know what he is after from his players and many of the players who represented England at the World Cup are not the sort of players Eddie would pick. There will be a definite shift in philosophy.

Alex Sanderson

He has a great belief in detail and systems and processes. It is up to you to meet his standards and to conform to his systems.

From what you can glean so far Eddie Jones is making all the right noises building on the things
that have worked.
Building a Squad and improving it till 2019 and beyond,seeing what the current Coaches if
anything offer.
Building assistant Coaches to eventually replace him,sensible so far the only way is up.
With SH sides in rebuild mode could be some scalps there before they get settled down.