Who Is The Most Overrated Boxer In The Last 30 Years?

1. Oscar De la Hoya
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Mike Tyson
5. Riddick Bowe
6. Roy Jones
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Shane Mosely
10. Naseem Hamed

How can Oscar, Jones, Lewis and Hopkins be overrated ?????

Excellent thread.

You can make a case for all the chosen to be overrated, however it depends on what type of fan you speak to.

Casual fans have Mike Tyson as a God among men, though the other side of the coin is, many "hardcore" fans think he is a one dimensional bully, who defeated no one. Both sets of fans are wrong and he falls somewhere in-between. Not the greatest heavy ever, but one of the greats.

I actually think Oscar is rated were he belongs. As long as nobody has him near the elite of ATG's I am happy enough. He is still a dam good fighter and won around 10 titles in 6 divisions. He was gifted a couple, but he was also robbed more than once.

I don't think Lewis is overrated, maybe in the UK but definitely not Worldwide. In fact I think Evander is a little overrated in my view. Fantastic heavy but he was beat twice by Bowe and Lewis. Even though he has a great win vs Tyson, it was against a man who had previously spent a few years in prison.

Wlad is not overrated, at least not on here. Maybe he is among the journos and experts.

I do think Shane is overrated and the Prince was overrated when he was performing, but not now.

Bernard Hopkins is definitely not overrated for me. He might be like watching paint dry, but the mans record speaks for itself.

RJJ might be the best athlete that has ever laced up the gloves, but I do think his record is a little padded. Is he overrated? Some fans claim he is the best they ever seen at his peak, (me included) so yes he might be a little, at least as far as his record goes.

Joe Calzaghe is very overrated on these shores. Very good fighter, but far to much padding on his resume.

David Haye is very overrated by some. I also think Felix Trinidad is one to mention. Trinidad was a bit of a beast, but he can be out boxed by those that could handle his power.

Of that lot I think Bowe and Tyson are the only ones who are over-rated; if anything the rest are all a bit under-rated, Jones and Hopkins are as good as anyone whereas Mosley was at Lightweight. Nobody really rates Wlad that highly anyway so his ATG stature is about right whilst Oscar is a decisive figure some rate him very highly whereas others consider him nothing more than a very good boxer. A lot of people forget how good Hamed actually was and decide to fixate upon one fight.

I would go as far as saying Naz is actually now underrated.

How can Joe Calzaghe be overrated on these shores Adam ??

He's the best fighter the Country has produced in 30 years.....I haven't seen anyone better...

Barry Mcguigan belongs on lists like this not Calzaghe..........

I mean by those that have him as an atg. Casual fans I speak to think he is a top 10 fighter ever, because he is unbeaten.

I agree about Barry McGuigan.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How can Oscar, Jones, Lewis and Hopkins be overrated ?????

Do you not understand the term?

AdamT wrote:I would go as far as saying Naz is actually now underrated.

You might be right - as is Tyson (for me).

I believe Lennox is overrated (some have him as high as top five all-time at heavy).

Poor old Oscar..............Could have stayed at 130 and 135 and fought crap and had people jerking off about him....

But no... beats quality after quality.......loses a couple...and always gets hammered on these sites...

Typical posters put people down for being cherrypickers and yet when someone has a great career by fighting the best..

He's overrated...Bollox !!

Tyson is underrated. It is a joke that many think all you need is a good jab and be able to stand up to him.

Think those that lived through Tyson's era have more respect for him... than those looking at his career now....

He was devastating.......and though his career did peter out... for me he is a bonafide great heavyweight as long as fighters like Dempsey have that accolade....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Poor old Oscar..............Could have stayed at 130 and 135 and fought crap and had people jerking off about him....

But no... beats quality after quality.......loses a couple...and always gets hammered on these sites...

Typical posters put people down for being cherrypickers and yet when someone has a great career by fighting the best..

He's overrated...Bollox !!

He couldn't have stayed at 130-135 as he grew through the divisions - he was a welterweight. Let's not forget, too, that he picked on older, smaller fighters such as Chavez, Whitaker and Camacho. He made Mosley, Floyd and Pacquiao climb umpteen divisions and took forever to face-off against Trinidad (funnily enough around the time Tito looked to be struggling with the weight).

He certainly didn't miss anyone (which is commendable) but how many did he win? The Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad and Mosley (rematch) fights were all toss-up decisions. He lost to Mosley (first fight) and Hopkins (and should have lost to Sturm) along with Floyd and Pacquiao (to be fair, he was finished at that point).  

Good fighter but an all-time great? I don't believe so. Overrated for me.

I don't think Oscar belongs as an ATG, but he is still a great of the last quarter Century.

I always liked Oscar as a fighter.

I mentioned Mosley being overrated, but as Hammer has already stated, he was lethal at lightweight.

Is Nigel Benn a little overrated??

If you don't give DelaHoya credit for Chavez..........Then you can't give any fighter who is bigger than someone at the same weight credit..........

Baloney.............

Might as well say Hearns had a crap career too...

It's spin.....Chavez x 2 were good victories..

All great fighter have a few gimmes.

Even the very best.

It's just bollox Adam isn't it..............

He reels off the close decisions Oscar got.................and then says he lost to Trinidad and Mosley without mentioning one was a rip off and the other two were close..

It's just d**khead debating..

He loves or hates......

Debating overrated or underrated is the most pointless pursuit in boxing.

It can only be in the context of a specific set of ratings or it's completely abstract. Everybody rates each boxer differently so they can't be universally under or overrated.

I agree Scott, but I enjoy the debate none the less.

Truss I rate Oscar. Haz probably rates him too, just not as much. Each to their own I guess.

Oscar did fight nearly everyone, win or lose. Not many in recent years can say the same.

AdamT wrote:I don't think Oscar belongs as an ATG, but he is still a great of the last quarter Century.

I always liked Oscar as a fighter.

I mentioned Mosley being overrated, but as Hammer has already stated, he was lethal at lightweight.

Is Nigel Benn a little overrated??

He certainly is in this country. Jimmy Tibbs moulded him into a world class fighter at 168 but he was fallible.

It's a knob's trick to mention his close decisions and then say others just "beat him..."

When they were close too...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If you don't give DelaHoya credit for Chavez..........Then you can't give any fighter who is bigger than someone at the same weight credit..........

Baloney.............

Might as well say Hearns had a crap career too...

It's spin.....Chavez x 2 were good victories..

Chavez was old, tiny and shopworn. It was like picking wings off a butterfly.

I think Benn is fantastic and one of the most exciting fighter to watch.

Truss mentioned Barry McGuigan earlier and I have to agree.

Barry became a huge star over night............Talking about a superfight with Azumah in 86/87.....

I never gave him a prayer.......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's just bollox Adam isn't it..............

He reels off the close decisions Oscar got.................and then says he lost to Trinidad and Mosley without mentioning  one was a rip off and the other two were close..

It's just d**khead debating..

He loves or hates......

Then don't debate if it upsets you so much. I have a toddler who's less temperamental.

You're not debating...You're being silly...

AdamT wrote:I think Benn is fantastic and one of the most exciting fighter to watch.

Truss mentioned Barry McGuigan earlier and I have to agree.

Was he overrated? He was a damn good fighter - I think he's rated as such.

There's a big debate about his inclusion in the HOF but, like Gatti, his impact on the sport was taken into consideration.

as always, the term "overrated" is not easy to use. Overrated by whom? The casuals? The so-called "true" fans? The critics? A consensus of all the above? If we take "overrated" as meaning "rated higher than they should be", then surely the "should" is subjective, and what we mean is people who are 'usually' placed higher than we feel they deserve to be.

Looking at the list, I think all the fighters are overrated by some people, but in general feel that De La Hoya, Calzaghe, Lewis, Hopkins at least have their ratings about right.

Tyson is a trickier one. Certainly casual fans overrate him, some calling him the best of all time. However, I feel this has led to a bit of a backlash among "boxing fans", who if anything underrate him as a result. Tyson at his best was a brutal, fearful, prospect. I've heard people say "if you weren't afraid of him you'd won half the battle" but surely?
a) that's true of other greats, certainly Ali struggled most with those who weren't intimidated.
b) being able to intimidate your opponents to that extent is something of a "skill" in itself.

You see lists with him outside the top 15 heavyweights of all time, plain wrong for me.

Bowe I'd tend to agree with. Fine fighter, but mentally not the strongest. His rating is solely on the back of the Holyfield trilogy, which while great doesn't deserve to see him rated all that highly for me.

Roy Jones is one who polarises opinion, so it's hard to say if he's over or underrated. Probably both.

Wlad I can't agree with at all. I feel he's underrated, given how long he's dominated HW boxing. Yes, poor opposition, which stops him being rated as an ATG, but suffers for me hugely from the rose-tinted specs of "experts".

Scottrf wrote:Debating overrated or underrated is the most pointless pursuit in boxing.

It can only be in the context of a specific set of ratings or it's completely abstract. Everybody rates each boxer differently so they can't be universally under or overrated.

Ok, how about we debate using this Boxing News Top 100 list?

100. John Henry Lewis
99. Sonny Liston
98. Matthew Saad Muhammad
97. Jung-Koo Chang
96. Shane Mosely
95. Joe Calzaghe
94. Ad Wolgast
93. Abe Attell
92. Les Darcy
91. Marcel Cerdan
90. Carmen Basilio
89. Pancho Villa
88. Tiger Flowers
87. Miguel Canto
86. Oscar De La Hoya
85. Beau Jack
84. Myung-Woo Yuh
83. Panama Al Brown
82. Joe Brown
81. Freddie Welsh
80. Erik Morales
79. Marco Antonio Barrera
78. Juan Manuel Marquez
77. Bernard hopkins
76. Harry Wills
75. Harold Johnson
74. Pascual Perez
73. Bob FitzSimmons
72. Carlos Ortiz
71. Mike Tyson
70. Jack "Kid" Berg
69. Georges Carpentier
68. Nicolino Locche
67. Eusebio Pedroza
66. Antonio Cervantes
65. Tommy Loughran
64. Charley Burley
63. Nino Benvenuti
62. Dick Tiger
61. Bob Foster
60. Billy Conn
59. Manuel Ortiz
58. Jack Britton
57. Khaosai Galaxy
56. Jake LaMotta
55. Carlos Zarate
54. Ruben Olivares
53. Ted "Kid" Lewis
52. Ike Williams
51. Wilfredo Gomez
50. Aaron Pryor
49. Azumah Nelson
48. Ricardo Lopez
47.Wilfred benitez
46. Salvador Sanchez
45. Kid Chocolate
44. Benny Lynch
43. George Dixon
42. Manny Pacquiao
41. Floyd Mayweather
40. Jimmy McLarnin
39. Barney Ross
38. Michael Spinks
37. Kid Gavilan
36. Roy Jones Jr.
35. Lennox Lewis
34. Joe Frazier
33. George foreman
32. Jose Napoles
31. Alexis Arguello
30. Thomas Hearns
29. Mickey Walker
28. Eder Jofre
27. Evander Holyfield
26. Ezzard Charles
25. Larry Holmes
24. Pernell Whitaker
23. Julio Cesar Chavez
22. Joe Gans
21. Rocky Marciano
20. Jack Dempsey
19. Gene Tunney
18. Sandy Saddler
17. Tomy Canzoneri
16. Stanley Ketchel
15. Sam Langford
14. Marvin Hagler
13. Carlos Monzon
12. Jack Johnson
11. Benny Leonard
10. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
8. Jimmy Wilde
7. Harry Greb
6. Roberto Duran
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Joe louis
3. Henry Armstrong
2. Muhammad Ali
1. Sugar Ray Robinson

Wlad's seat in history will be determined by what comes after him......

Like Lewis his stock may rise if it's mediocrity..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're not debating...You're being silly...

Don't make me put you on the naughty step.

hazharrison wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Debating overrated or underrated is the most pointless pursuit in boxing.

It can only be in the context of a specific set of ratings or it's completely abstract. Everybody rates each boxer differently so they can't be universally under or overrated.

Ok, how about we debate using this Boxing News Top 100 list?

100. John Henry Lewis
99. Sonny Liston
98. Matthew Saad Muhammad
97. Jung-Koo Chang
96. Shane Mosely
95. Joe Calzaghe
94. Ad Wolgast
93. Abe Attell
92. Les Darcy
91. Marcel Cerdan
90. Carmen Basilio
89. Pancho Villa
88. Tiger Flowers
87. Miguel Canto
86. Oscar De La Hoya
85. Beau Jack
84. Myung-Woo Yuh
83. Panama Al Brown
82. Joe Brown
81. Freddie Welsh
80. Erik Morales
79. Marco Antonio Barrera
78. Juan Manuel Marquez
77. Bernard hopkins
76. Harry Wills
75. Harold Johnson
74. Pascual Perez
73. Bob FitzSimmons
72. Carlos Ortiz
71. Mike Tyson
70. Jack "Kid" Berg
69. Georges Carpentier
68. Nicolino Locche
67. Eusebio Pedroza
66. Antonio Cervantes
65. Tommy Loughran
64. Charley Burley
63. Nino Benvenuti
62. Dick Tiger
61. Bob Foster
60. Billy Conn
59. Manuel Ortiz
58. Jack Britton
57. Khaosai Galaxy
56. Jake LaMotta
55. Carlos Zarate
54. Ruben Olivares
53. Ted "Kid" Lewis
52. Ike Williams
51. Wilfredo Gomez
50. Aaron Pryor
49. Azumah Nelson
48. Ricardo Lopez
47.Wilfred benitez
46. Salvador Sanchez
45. Kid Chocolate
44. Benny Lynch
43. George Dixon
42. Manny Pacquiao
41. Floyd Mayweather
40. Jimmy McLarnin
39. Barney Ross
38. Michael Spinks
37. Kid Gavilan
36. Roy Jones Jr.
35. Lennox Lewis
34. Joe Frazier
33. George foreman
32. Jose Napoles
31. Alexis Arguello
30. Thomas Hearns
29. Mickey Walker
28. Eder Jofre
27. Evander Holyfield
26. Ezzard Charles
25. Larry Holmes
24. Pernell Whitaker
23. Julio Cesar Chavez
22. Joe Gans
21. Rocky Marciano
20. Jack Dempsey
19. Gene Tunney
18. Sandy Saddler
17. Tomy Canzoneri
16. Stanley Ketchel
15. Sam Langford
14. Marvin Hagler
13. Carlos Monzon
12. Jack Johnson
11. Benny Leonard
10. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
8. Jimmy Wilde
7. Harry Greb
6. Roberto Duran
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Joe louis
3. Henry Armstrong
2. Muhammad Ali
1. Sugar Ray Robinson

Stan Ketchel 16.......Jack Johnson 12..

Turd...

hazharrison wrote:
4. Joe louis

Now you've done it

In all seriousness, these sorts of lists are incredibly difficult to establish, but for me that one has too many glaring inconsistencies on it...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Debating overrated or underrated is the most pointless pursuit in boxing.

It can only be in the context of a specific set of ratings or it's completely abstract. Everybody rates each boxer differently so they can't be universally under or overrated.

Ok, how about we debate using this Boxing News Top 100 list?

100. John Henry Lewis
99. Sonny Liston
98. Matthew Saad Muhammad
97. Jung-Koo Chang
96. Shane Mosely
95. Joe Calzaghe
94. Ad Wolgast
93. Abe Attell
92. Les Darcy
91. Marcel Cerdan
90. Carmen Basilio
89. Pancho Villa
88. Tiger Flowers
87. Miguel Canto
86. Oscar De La Hoya
85. Beau Jack
84. Myung-Woo Yuh
83. Panama Al Brown
82. Joe Brown
81. Freddie Welsh
80. Erik Morales
79. Marco Antonio Barrera
78. Juan Manuel Marquez
77. Bernard hopkins
76. Harry Wills
75. Harold Johnson
74. Pascual Perez
73. Bob FitzSimmons
72. Carlos Ortiz
71. Mike Tyson
70. Jack "Kid" Berg
69. Georges Carpentier
68. Nicolino Locche
67. Eusebio Pedroza
66. Antonio Cervantes
65. Tommy Loughran
64. Charley Burley
63. Nino Benvenuti
62. Dick Tiger
61. Bob Foster
60. Billy Conn
59. Manuel Ortiz
58. Jack Britton
57. Khaosai Galaxy
56. Jake LaMotta
55. Carlos Zarate
54. Ruben Olivares
53. Ted "Kid" Lewis
52. Ike Williams
51. Wilfredo Gomez
50. Aaron Pryor
49. Azumah Nelson
48. Ricardo Lopez
47.Wilfred benitez
46. Salvador Sanchez
45. Kid Chocolate
44. Benny Lynch
43. George Dixon
42. Manny Pacquiao
41. Floyd Mayweather
40. Jimmy McLarnin
39. Barney Ross
38. Michael Spinks
37. Kid Gavilan
36. Roy Jones Jr.
35. Lennox Lewis
34. Joe Frazier
33. George foreman
32. Jose Napoles
31. Alexis Arguello
30. Thomas Hearns
29. Mickey Walker
28. Eder Jofre
27. Evander Holyfield
26. Ezzard Charles
25. Larry Holmes
24. Pernell Whitaker
23. Julio Cesar Chavez
22. Joe Gans
21. Rocky Marciano
20. Jack Dempsey
19. Gene Tunney
18. Sandy Saddler
17. Tomy Canzoneri
16. Stanley Ketchel
15. Sam Langford
14. Marvin Hagler
13. Carlos Monzon
12. Jack Johnson
11. Benny Leonard
10. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
8. Jimmy Wilde
7. Harry Greb
6. Roberto Duran
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Joe louis
3. Henry Armstrong
2. Muhammad Ali
1. Sugar Ray Robinson

Stan Ketchel 16.......Jack Johnson 12..

Turd...

It's not the best but provides some context for where modern fighters are rated. Felix Trinidad, for one, should have made it ahead of Oscar.

Modern fighters in general get a raw deal on that awful list.

Hammer I agree. How the fook is Hopkins as low as 70 odd to begin with?

No Jersey Joe Walcott?

Barely a top 20 Heavyweight so wouldn't have him near the top 100 overall.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Barely a top 20 Heavyweight so wouldn't have him near the top 100 overall.

Many fans thought Walcott beat Joe Louis in their first fight on Dec 5th 1947 at Madison Square Garden when he knocked down Louis twice, but Louis got up to hold on for a 15-round split decision.

Even Louis seemed surprised by the verdict, at first starting to leave the ring apparently thinking he had lost.

Then after the decision was announced, Louis went over to Walcott's corner and said, "Joe, I'm sorry." Walcott and his supporters sought to have the decision reversed a week later in an appeal to the New York State Athletic Commission, but it stood.


Yeah, must have been rubbish Walcott, also gave Marciano the toughest fight of his career.


http://jerseyjoewalcott.weebly.com/

You've surmised from me saying he's barely among the twenty greatest heavyweights of all time to mean he's rubbish?

I know it's bollox isn't it..

Walcott is 20-30 for me.....Quality heavyweight for sure..

I grew up with Mike Tyson as a world champion. Proper mess of a man but one hell of a fighter. People think that all he could do was hit, this is true but he was by no means a bad boxer either. Cant say I find him overrated.

Neither do I feel that Joe Calzaghe was overrated.

Tyson was a great boxer.

Anyway in conclusion...Oscar isn't great because....

He had the audacity to be bigger at the weight than Julio cesar....

His legacy defining wins were close decisions..

In his legacy defining defeats he got hammered by close decision or hammered in a robbery..

Hopkins 70 ???????? ...Ketchel 16......

We're not debating the list - I think we'll all agree it's not the best.

Was Oscar a great fighter? Too often, he let fights slip (Trinidad, Mosley, Mayweather) that appeared to be in his grasp. He fought more or less on even terms with Ike Quartey - there wasn't much between them. Is Quartey great? Bloody good but not great for me.

His defining fight was Trinidad - was he great in that fight?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I know it's bollox isn't it..

Walcott is 20-30 for me.....Quality heavyweight for sure..

I'd find a place in the top 20 for Walcott - underrated technician.

eirebilly wrote:I grew up with Mike Tyson as a world champion. Proper mess of a man but one hell of a fighter. People think that all he could do was hit, this is true but he was by no means a bad boxer either. Cant say I find him overrated.

Neither do I feel that Joe Calzaghe was overrated.

Hopkins, Mitchell, Bika, Reid, Eubank and Lacy plus the longevity are enough to suggest Joe had a very very good career....Lacy is only spewed on because Calzaghe bust him up and ruined him......Could easily have been a top fighter.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I grew up with Mike Tyson as a world champion. Proper mess of a man but one hell of a fighter. People think that all he could do was hit, this is true but he was by no means a bad boxer either. Cant say I find him overrated.

Neither do I feel that Joe Calzaghe was overrated.

Hopkins, Mitchell, Bika, Reid, Eubank and Lacy plus the longevity are enough to suggest Joe had a very very good career....Lacy is only spewed on because Calzaghe bust him up and ruined him......Could easily have been a top fighter.

I do feel Calzaghe is overrated - the bulk of his career consisted of largely forgettable WBO title fights. His best win was probably Kessler. The Hopkins fight was a bit of a mess all round. He did a real number on Lacy but it's difficult to gauge just how good Jeff was.

I think his closing flourish tends to boost his standing - perhaps higher than it should have.

Kessler was certainly his best win.

I forgot Kessler