Abu Dhabi & Post Season discussion

First topic message reminder :

Vettel out in q1

Rosberg pole by three tenths, Hamilton second & Kimi third. Hamilton definitely not the same driver over one lap since the Singapore development changes to the car, in response to their slow pace that weekend.

Just awful, too much white is not alright!

Extremely tight rear end. It's slightly too white for me, especially when Vettel's helmet is all-white too.

New Mercedes at Silverstone today. Slight livery change & blackened rear wing end plates & that's about it

So, the Williams is basically the same as last season and minimal changes to the Mercedes.

Liking the new Ferrari look. A bit unusual but I think the white freshens it up a bit. Still not gonna mistake it for anything else.

New McLaren

Mercedes

Haas F1

Sauber have done zilch to their car

Haas looks like a Manor. Pretty dull looking cars.

The 2016 McLaren is a beautiful car, I've seen many McLaren fans upset that they didn't revert back to the retro red and white livery, key point behind that is that Malaboro sponsor's Ferrari for the last 20 odd years.._That aside if Honda have sorted the power unit McLaren could be back in business

Gotta say I'm not to keen on the Haas livery, considering they where linked with a yellow livery._..More bizarre that Renault didn't opt for yellow.._

Too many teams with similar color schemes

I've said it before and I'll say it again...no changes in regs = cars looking the same. Why are people expecting anything dramatically different?

Blame the idiotically restrictive regs they have to work with.

As to the cars, still think the Ferrari is the best looking. Williams and Mercedes come a close joint second.

The Haas isn't actually that bad, considering they're coming in as a total rookie team. Better than the first efforts by Caterham and Marussia. Colour scheme is okay...at least quite distinctive.

Think the McLaren engineers spent quite a bit of time hitting their car with the ugly hammer. Nice colour scheme...shame about the bodywork. Still, if the utilitarian styling helps it go faster, I'm sure Nando and Jenson won't be complaining.

Looking forward to seeing what Renault, TR and Manor come up with.

Renault. These paint jobs are awful, too many similar coloured cars

Looks like only Ferrari will pose any type of threat to Mercedes in 2016. Despite times being somewhat irrelevant McLaren's engine still seems rubbish.

I'll believe Ferrari are close to Mercedes when i see it in actual competitive racing rather than sandbagging season.

Like GSC, we need to wait, but I think Ferrari will be there, the team who has dominated a regulation, tends to be caught up or overtaken towards the end of the regulation era. Mercedes themselves have stagnated, they've reached the ceiling of development on this car, hence the 'mini-evolution' of the 2016 car. Ferrari have a much bigger development programme for this car & it's been on a upward curve. I'm expecting Vettel to win more than the three races he achieved last year, hopefully we see a epic duel between him & Hamilton, I mean, the sport is crying out for it.

Yasuhisa Arai is leaving his role at Honda at the end of the month

LiamB wrote:

Renault. These paint jobs are awful, too many similar coloured cars

Its a bit bland...but I'm guessing (hoping) they will have a nicer one when the season starts.

Jermaine2015 wrote:
Looks like only Ferrari will pose any type of threat to Mercedes in 2016. Despite times being somewhat irrelevant McLaren's engine still seems rubbish.

Honda have already confirmed they will have an improved engine ready for the second pre-season test.

Compared to where they were this time last season, McLaren have already come on in leaps and bounds. Okay they were nearly 2 seconds off the pace of Mercedes and Ferrari yesterday, but they managed to do well over a race distance worth of testing...compared to the 6 laps managed by Alonso last year.



TR looking very stylish...even in a plain blue pre-season livery.



The new Manor looking a bit plain by contrast...though they claim its the "most ambitious and aggressive" car they've built yet. Nice paint job though.


Also, has anyone else spotted the new purple "ultra soft" tyres? If so, does anyone know if they're just a developmental thing Pirelli are testing, or will they be used in races?

They will be used in races/qualifying but they last about 4 laps by sounds of things...

In other news Qualifying is changing again.

Q1 will now last 16 minutes and after seven minutes the slowest driver will take no further part in the session.

Every 90 seconds thereafter, the slowest will be knocked out until there are only 15 drivers remaining.

After a short break, Q2 will commence and last 15 minutes with the slowest driver eliminated after six minutes.

As was the case in Q1, the slowest driver at the time will be knocked out at 90-second intervals until eight remain.

Q3 will last 14 minutes and see the process repeated again with the slowest taking no further part after five minutes.

The next five drivers will drop out at 90-second intervals leaving the final two drivers to fight it out for pole in the final 90 seconds

Sounds ****ing stupid.

That sounds absolute awful. Ninety second intervals, probably aims to make sure drivers are on show & continuously on track, so they can react, instead of being in the garage. Pretty pointless change though.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jermaine2015 wrote:
Looks like only Ferrari will pose any type of threat to Mercedes in 2016. Despite times being somewhat irrelevant McLaren's engine still seems rubbish.

Honda have already confirmed they will have an improved engine ready for the second pre-season test.

Compared to where they were this time last season, McLaren have already come on in leaps and bounds. Okay they were nearly 2 seconds off the pace of Mercedes and Ferrari yesterday, but they managed to do well over a race distance worth of testing...compared to the 6 laps managed by Alonso last year.

Unless Honda's b spec engine has a rocket ship attached to the rear I don't see where they will make up a 2/3 second gap in performance. So far during this test McLaren are 16kph down on straight line speed compared to Mercedes. That's worst than Red Bull last year

Fernando wrote:They will be used in races/qualifying but they last about 4 laps by sounds of things...

In other news Qualifying is changing again.

Q1 will now last 16 minutes and after seven minutes the slowest driver will take no further part in the session.

Every 90 seconds thereafter, the slowest will be knocked out until there are only 15 drivers remaining.

After a short break, Q2 will commence and last 15 minutes with the slowest driver eliminated after six minutes.

As was the case in Q1, the slowest driver at the time will be knocked out at 90-second intervals until eight remain.

Q3 will last 14 minutes and see the process repeated again with the slowest taking no further part after five minutes.

The next five drivers will drop out at 90-second intervals leaving the final two drivers to fight it out for pole in the final 90 seconds

I have to say I like the sound of that. Seems like it was designed to try ensure there are as many cars on track as possible all through the session, instead of nothing happening for the first 5 minutes or so, then a mad rush at the end.

In theory should be a good, fair system that provides a better spectacle for the audience. Only thing I would say is that 90 seconds sounds like too little time for the pole shootout, given its an "average" lap time (with track lap times varying from 1:15 to 1:45)...or longer in wet conditions.

Also, if drivers have to be on track until they are eliminated (can only pit between sessions) they will need to carry more fuel..making the cars slower.

Think they will need to re-think this.


Also, tyres that last around 4 laps? Please, tell me what is the point? More to the point, WTF were Pirelli thinking?

Everyone from Bernie Ecclestone, to the drivers, to the fans have been saying for ages they want tyres that last LONGER and allow drivers to push harder.

Jermaine2015 wrote:
Unless Honda's b spec engine has a rocket ship attached to the rear I don't see where they will make up a 2/3 second gap in performance. So far during this test McLaren are 16kph down on straight line speed compared to Mercedes. That's worst than Red Bull last year

After last season I suspect McLaren will be happy if they are on par with the likes of Force India and Toro Rosso. If they end up 1 - 1.5 seconds off the pace of the leaders, that will still be a massive improvement. I doubt anyone in the team is expecting to challenge Mercedes this season...or even Ferrari.

One of their biggest handicaps last season was the limited power from their hybrid system, which ran out well before the end of the main straights, making them sitting ducks. If they've solved this problem, that alone will help them perform better in races (not necessarily in quali).

The ultra softs are a quali tyre essentially.

GSC wrote:Sounds ****ing stupid.

For once I am in agreement here with you.

Pirelli will be told to produce a tyre drivers can push to the limit in 2017 as Formula 1 bosses seek to make the sport more exciting.

The current tyres prevent drivers from racing flat out because they degrade quickly and need to be nursed.

Cars will be as much as five seconds a lap faster in 2017.

Pirelli has already indicated its willingness to produce a racier tyre next year but says it needs more track testing to fulfil its work.

It has been allocated 12 days for this purpose in 2016.

The BBC has learned that the FIA, which governs F1, will instruct Pirelli to design a tyre that will allow drivers to push hard for longer.

I found it strange that Rosberg came out said Mercedes haven't been pushing for quick laps so far. Whilst that remains obvious, if they are so confident that they are still easily fastest why do they need to make this kind of statement?

Apparently the new "halo" will be introduced next season, along with the measures to make the cars faster, to provide drivers with protection against being hit on the head by debris.

The new regs for 2017, regarding tyre sizes, revised aero rules etc. should be confirmed around April.

A bit of confusion about the new qualifying session rules. BE isn't in favour with them (I cannot disagree with him there) and it looks unlikely the computer systems will be in place in time for the new qualifying rules to be implemented until five races into the season. Sorry but if it isn't for the whole season it should be canned.

From what I read, the problem isn't so much implementation of the system for the teams, its presenting it in a way that will make things clear to the watching public.

And since FOM are the people tasked with timing, on-screen graphics etc. they are the only ones who can sort it out. Think they just need to figure out the best way to display the data and write the software to do it.

Not really sure what the problem is...unless it was a late decision.

Bernie may not like it, but its a damn sight better than his ideal qualifying format:

"What I've said was, if the guy that's on pole won the last race, for example, we'd have to come up with some sort of a format to say in the end he starts 10th. And the guy who was third in the last race starts maybe eighth or something like that.

"And then you will find you get a whole mix-up of the grid and some of the guys who don't get as much TV coverage will be up at the front.

"Because you can guarantee the guy who's on pole will still win the race but it ain't going to be like pole man disappears and that's it."

He said the teams were opposed to this idea.

"People at the time that don't want any change at all thought: 'Well, Ecclestone's going to push through something so we might as well agree with that rather than have something that is a bit more drastic'," he said.

"Because it could happen that the guy on pole doesn't get through the pack.

"Monaco, Hungary - there's lots of places where you wouldn't want to put your money on the guy coming through the field."

dyrewolfe wrote:From what I read, the problem isn't so much implementation of the system for the teams, its presenting it in a way that will make things clear to the watching public.

And since FOM are the people tasked with timing, on-screen graphics etc. they are the only ones who can sort it out. Think they just need to figure out the best way to display the data and write the software to do it.

Not really sure what the problem is...unless it was a late decision.

Bernie may not  like it, but its a damn sight better than his ideal qualifying format:

"What I've said was, if the guy that's on pole won the last race, for example, we'd have to come up with some sort of a format to say in the end he starts 10th. And the guy who was third in the last race starts maybe eighth or something like that.

"And then you will find you get a whole mix-up of the grid and some of the guys who don't get as much TV coverage will be up at the front.

"Because you can guarantee the guy who's on pole will still win the race but it ain't going to be like pole man disappears and that's it."

He said the teams were opposed to this idea.

"People at the time that don't want any change at all thought: 'Well, Ecclestone's going to push through something so we might as well agree with that rather than have something that is a bit more drastic'," he said.

"Because it could happen that the guy on pole doesn't get through the pack.

"Monaco, Hungary - there's lots of places where you wouldn't want to put your money on the guy coming through the field."

Oh yes his idea is naff as well but equally as naff as the one they are looking to implement.

It doesn't matter this year won't be a contest. Rosberg on the yellow soft tyres is faster then Williams on the ultra soft. It's going to be a long year.

the times do look depressing, they looked mighty with nico on the qualifying run & then with lewis on the full race sim. I feared when I heard Ferrari had made radical changes over winter, they still don't look to have closed the gap & now reliability looks like it will be an early season issue. bottas thinks nobody will touch Mercedes in the early part of the season.

Apparently, another U-turn in the qualifying format. Strong reports that the new elimination style format will be used in Australia in Q1 & Q2, however, Q3 will remain the same as previous years.

To be honest I didn't expect much difference to the pecking order (with the caveat that you shouldn't read too much into test times).

I think it will require a major change to the regs, such as the one planned for next season, to really upset the current balance.

I'm actually rather happy about the latest planned change to quali. I think it would look very strange with just 2 cars on track in Q3. Think it would also lead to games of chicken, with both teams leaving it as late as possible to run, to deny their rival a chance to respond.

First look at the new halo to be fitted to all cars next season...although its only on a workshop floor. The camera angle does give some idea of what the driver's view would be like.



And here's one actually being tested by Kimi:

Im not sure that's a good safety idea. They can't see their front wings as it is that's not going to make it any better also a big hole in the roof is good for catching tyres

Lewis Hamilton has said "F1 is broken and lacking direction".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35722163

World champion Lewis Hamilton believes Formula 1 is broken as it struggles to finalise rules for the next two years.

The Mercedes ace was asked by reporters if the sport was fundamentally broken, lacking direction or in rude health.

The 31-year-old Briton, world champion three times, said: "Probably the first two you suggested. I don't want to say too much but I agree with those."

Lewis also slated the new halo, calling it "the worst modification in F1 history" and said he wished they could go back to driving cars like the ones from 30 years ago.


He was backed up by Alonso, who said the rules were baffling, both to drivers and fans and that too many changes were being forced on them.

Alonso said the lack of clarity did not portray F1 in a good light.

"I am sad for the sport," said the two-time champion. "If I were a sportsman from another sport, I will look at Formula 1 a little bit surprised about that."

The 34-year-old Spaniard added there were "too many changes" and complained that "the complexity of the rules for the spectator is quite high".

He said: "All my friends here in Spain want to switch on the television and watch battles, big cars, big tyres, big noise and enjoy the race like they do with other sports. We want simplicity in the rules."

On further reflection I think I also have to agree with (606) Fernando. Looking at the halo on Kimi's car, I'm not convinced they would offer that much protection.

I don't think they'd stop something like a suspension component hitting the driver, as happened to Massa. Also, its possible a tyre could end up stuck on top and potentially block the air intake (bit of a freakish incident admittedly), forcing the driver to pit. Its even been admitted it would do nothing to protect the driver in the event of an accident like Jules Bianchi's.

Pecking order post testing seems to be generally agreed as:

Mercedes

Ferrari

Williams

Force India
Toro Rosso

Red Bull

McLaren
Renault

Haas
Sauber

Manor

Peoples lives are far more important than the aesthetics of an F1 car.

True, but we have yet to see how effective the halos are. From what some of the drivers have been saying, its likely they will evolve a bit from their current form.

Red Bull are also working on a semi-enclosed cockpit idea and plan to show it sometime before the start of the season, though its unlikely to be adopted.

Channel 4 presenter line up

Host - Steve Jones
Commentary - David Coulthard & Ben Edwards
Pitlane - Lee Mckenzie & Karun Chandhok
Pundits (will be rotated) - Eddie Jordan, Mark Webber, Susie Wolff, Bruno Senna, Alain Prost, Alessandro Zanardi and Nicholas Hamilton
Off Track Interviews - Murray Walker

Jolyon Palmer will be writing columns for them about his experience in his 1st season much like Hamilton for BBC.

Channel 4's F1 presenting 'dream team'

Definitely be sticking with Sky. Steve Jones loves himself, he's such a poor presenter, hence why his career has gone backwards & has been doing cookery programmes. Susie Wolff is just a desperate hanger on, Karun Chandhok is annoying & is quite simply the worst driver I've ever seen, you only need to look at his installation lap in Australia back in 2011 in the Lotus, to know what I mean. Senna was an absolute bore on Sky, hence why he was removed.

The only good acquisition is Webber, who knows what he's on about & who speaks his mind.

Alessandro Zanardi? Good grief - where did they dig him up from?

At least they managed to bag Murray Walker. I know he's a bit Marmite for a lot of people, but I love him. Him, DC, EJ and Webber will be the main reasons I watch. Prost is a legend, obviously, but not the most interesting in front of a camera IMO.

(and Lee McKenzie...for some reason I have a massive crush on her)  




Oh and if C4 insist on doing ad breaks every 5 minutes, I can guarantee they will get at least 1 sternly-worded letter of complaint.

C4 are uninterrupted i believe DW

New Renault livery

I like it, shame it's on a dog of a car.

Beautiful! A really good modern update on their classic yellow livery.

Its going to be one of the best-looking cars on the grid.

As John said though, its a shame we probably won't be seeing much of it.

I'm loving the new Renault paint job. Transitional year for the French team. Must be hoping to have a progressive season so they can attract a couple of top tier drivers in 2017.