Irish rugby needs big backers with deep pockets to close gap

First topic message reminder :

Really interesting. The momentum is gathering and the Union run rugby model is finally being outed as old hat

http://www.independent.ie/sport/tony-ward-we-need-backers-with-deep-pockets-to-close-gap-on-bigspending-elite-34300329.html

"We may profess to hate what the English and French have done but to borrow again from the great Willie Duggan "it's time to s**t or get off the pot"."

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
To be fair LD Irish teams do tend rest player, generally Key international players for away pro 12 games but not to the extent where there are not international players playing. It has never really been an issue either over the past number of years because each of the Irish teams less connacht would have always qualified for Europe under the new rules.

That I do agree with, but it is detrimental to the league. In my opinion, the league needs it's best players on show as often as possible, only that way will we be able to get the media/advertising money the other leagues get.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Also, Leinster have only been to Wales once so far this season, and None of those players were in the squad:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/34539659

What is so funny ? Leinster have been over to Wales once this season and this was the team they sent:-

Isa Nacewa; Fergus McFadden, Colm O'Shea, Noel Reid, Garry Ringrose, Ross Byrne, Isaac Boss; Michael Bent, Bryan Byrne, Marty Moore; Ross Molony, Tom Denton; Dominic Ryan, Josh van der Flier, Dan Leavy.

Replacements: James Tracy, Peter Dooley, Jamie Hagan, Tadhg Beirne, Tony Ryan, Luke McGrath, Cathal Marsh, Mick McGrath.


I cannot see any of Jamie Heaslip, Rob Kearney, Cain Healey, in that squad.

Look, get someone else to spell it out for you. I've better things to be getting on with.

Laters.

All those international players were in Wales at the time, playing for Ireland, in the World Cup.

To be fair LD Irish teams do tend rest player, generally Key international players for away pro 12 games but not to the extent where there are not international players playing. It has never really been an issue either over the past number of years because each of the Irish teams less connacht would have always qualified for Europe under the new rules.

True, and a good point if we were talking about this season. I did specifically say that I was referring to last season though.

It's just LD moving the goalposts because I have shown his argument to be false. I mean, what relevance does this season, especially this season (world cup, and the season isn't halfway through yet), have to do with his false claim that contracted players don't play away games?

Anyway, enough from me. This is a nonsense that LD persists with, even though it's been very clearly explained to him on many occasions. Won't sink in.

LordDowlais wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
To be fair LD Irish teams do tend rest player, generally Key international players for away pro 12 games but not to the extent where there are not international players playing. It has never really been an issue either over the past number of years because each of the Irish teams less connacht would have always qualified for Europe under the new rules.

That I do agree with, but it is detrimental to the league. In my opinion, the league needs it's best players on show as often as possible, only that way will we be able to get the media/advertising money the other leagues get.

I would agree with you on this, however the chance to rest these key players has given us the ability to prolong our key players international and club careers, BOD 34/5 when retired, POC 36 now,ROG 36 when retire Hayes 37 when retired etc.

You are right in saying that these are the names that put bums on seats but for the most part over the last 5 years while Irish teams have put our weaker than full strenght teams for some away fixtures, i doesnt necessary mean they have put out a weak team.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i doesnt necessary mean they have put out a weak team.

Yes again you are right. The provinces have always had strong sides, bulked up by quality NIQ players. But the thing is, we all see how many fans turn up to watch the 6N, these fans are the one's the Pro12 should be targeting. To get these fans going to the games, we need to have the players that play during the 6N on show. They will then get to see their hero's playing for their local side. It will attract them.

LordDowlais wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i doesnt necessary mean they have put out a weak team.

Yes again you are right. The provinces have always had strong sides, bulked up by quality NIQ players. But the thing is, we all see how many fans turn up to watch the 6N, these fans are the one's the Pro12 should be targeting. To get these fans going to the games, we need to have the players that play during the 6N on show. They will then get to see their hero's playing for their local side. It will attract them.

Certainly from a Scottish perspective this is wrong. For 6 Nations games fans come from all over the country to watch the games. Coaches full of fans will leave Aberdeen and Inverness in the morning and not get back until he early hours. You can hardly convince them to do that for a 7:30pm kick-off for Edinburgh vs Dragons on a Friday evening, regardless of who is playing. You also have to note that loyalty to Scotland hasn't waivered, but club loyalties remain split, and it isn't the quality of the rugby that keeps people in the borders supporting their local teams.

Where Glasgow and (to a lesser extent) Edinburgh have had success is in attracting new fans to the rugby. That isn't tapping into the 6 Nations fanbase, which is diverse and spread around the country, but (for example) getting local students involved in rugby evenings and getting families to see Murrayfield and Scotstoun as Friday evening destinations.

I don't think you have to have your 1st XV on display each and every weekend, and the point you've made around Pro12 sides sending second string teams for away games will have little relevance to the fans turning up for the home game.

Exactly FES, the funny thing here is the fact that French teams will almost always send their second string teams to every away match because it's such a long season. This has 0 impact on attendances in fact it may actually benefit it as the likes of Brive can beat Toulon at home.

Tv/Sponsors don't care who is playing, they care about how many are watching.

Exactly. If irish teams are limited on how often they can play central contract players under IRFU player management rules, then it's more likely that they'll be played in a majority of home games in front of fans who support and contribute to their team.

LordDowlais wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i doesnt necessary mean they have put out a weak team.

Yes again you are right. The provinces have always had strong sides, bulked up by quality NIQ players. But the thing is, we all see how many fans turn up to watch the 6N, these fans are the one's the Pro12 should be targeting. To get these fans going to the games, we need to have the players that play during the 6N on show. They will then get to see their hero's playing for their local side. It will attract them.

Who are you referring to really though?

The Irish provinces have had good sides, that have won league titles and won challenge cup and European cups, and have had good attendances to go with it. For the most part, their fans turn out regardless of who is playing for their team.

Is the same true for Welsh regions?

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
To be fair LD Irish teams do tend rest player, generally Key international players for away pro 12 games but not to the extent where there are not international players playing. It has never really been an issue either over the past number of years because each of the Irish teams less connacht would have always qualified for Europe under the new rules.

That I do agree with, but it is detrimental to the league. In my opinion, the league needs it's best players on show as often as possible, only that way will we be able to get the media/advertising money the other leagues get.

I would agree with you on this, however the chance to rest these key players has given us the ability to prolong our key players international and club careers, BOD 34/5 when retired, POC 36 now,ROG 36 when retire Hayes 37 when retired etc.

You are right in saying that these are the names that put bums on seats but for the most part over the last 5 years while Irish teams have put our weaker than full strenght teams for some away fixtures, i doesnt necessary mean they have put out a weak team.

GITS - Where is the evidence to support the notion that the personnel on the pitch affects media/advertising money? The Pro12 has grown both it's advertising revenues and attendances year on year so where is the current policy broken?

A standard marketing technique is to restrict supply to increase demand. So if "star" players were spread thinly over games that would (in marketing theory) actually encourage more people to want to see them when they did play. The same would apply to TV who would need to cover more games and so have to pay more money.

What do you think the TV companies would want: an exciting competitive match, or John Hayes prop a scrum?

The Great Aukster wrote:
What do you think the TV companies would want: an exciting competitive match, or John Hayes prop a scrum?

I suppose that would depend if they are advertising hair care products at half time .

The Great Aukster wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
To be fair LD Irish teams do tend rest player, generally Key international players for away pro 12 games but not to the extent where there are not international players playing. It has never really been an issue either over the past number of years because each of the Irish teams less connacht would have always qualified for Europe under the new rules.

That I do agree with, but it is detrimental to the league. In my opinion, the league needs it's best players on show as often as possible, only that way will we be able to get the media/advertising money the other leagues get.

I would agree with you on this, however the chance to rest these key players has given us the ability to prolong our key players international and club careers, BOD 34/5 when retired, POC 36 now,ROG 36 when retire Hayes 37 when retired etc.

You are right in saying that these are the names that put bums on seats but for the most part over the last 5 years while Irish teams have put our weaker than full strenght teams for some away fixtures, i doesnt necessary mean they have put out a weak team.

GITS - Where is the evidence to support the notion that the personnel on the pitch affects media/advertising money? The Pro12 has grown both it's advertising revenues and attendances year on year so where is the current policy broken?

A standard marketing technique is to restrict supply to increase demand. So if "star" players were spread thinly over games that would (in marketing theory) actually encourage more people to want to see them when they did play. The same would apply to TV who would need to cover more games and so have to pay more money.

What do you think the TV companies would want: an exciting competitive match, or John Hayes prop a scrum?

i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

I do agree with you the strenght of a league is the most important factor, but the strength of a league comes from the teams and players involved. the better the players, the better (for the most part) the matches, the higher the attendence,

Thanks for taking the John Hayes reference completely out of context, he was only mentioned to demonstrate how player management prolonged his career

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

How many games did Dan play for the Crusaders?

rodders wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

How many games did Dan play for the Crusaders?

i dont know, what are the average attendences for the Crusaders over the past 10 years? Besides they dont take rugby seriously down there anyway!

They don't take rugby seriously in New Zealand?

rodders wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

How many games did Dan play for the Crusaders?

You mean when the NZRU gave him a sabbatical?

As an aside Charlie Mathews played his 100th game for his club last week at the age of 24, Elliot Daly played his 120th club game on the weekend at 23.

Brian O'Driscol played 189 games for Leinster in his career.

Do t know where I'm going with this, just thought it was interesting that's all.

yappysnap wrote:As an aside Charlie Mathews played his 100th game for his club last week at the age of 24, Elliot Daly played his 120th club game on the weekend at 23.

Brian O'Driscol played 189 games for Leinster in his career.

Do t know where I'm going with this, just thought it was interesting that's all.

And how many international caps have those guys got?

For reference Jonny Wilkinson made 182 appearance for the Falcons in 11 seasons.

Ben Te'o is off to Worcester at the end of the season. Surely its not a case of Leinster not been able to compete with them?

He is qualified for England so that might have played a part.

rodders wrote:

yappysnap wrote:As an aside Charlie Mathews played his 100th game for his club last week at the age of 24, Elliot Daly played his 120th club game on the weekend at 23.

Brian O'Driscol played 189 games for Leinster in his career.

Do t know where I'm going with this, just thought it was interesting that's all.

And how many international caps have those guys got?

For reference Jonny Wilkinson made 182 appearance for the Falcons in 11 seasons.

Thats a horrible comparison to make given that JW was permanently broke in that time

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:

yappysnap wrote:As an aside Charlie Mathews played his 100th game for his club last week at the age of 24, Elliot Daly played his 120th club game on the weekend at 23.

Brian O'Driscol played 189 games for Leinster in his career.

Do t know where I'm going with this, just thought it was interesting that's all.

And how many international caps have those guys got?

For reference Jonny Wilkinson made 182 appearance for the Falcons in 11 seasons.

Thats a horrible comparison to make given that JW was permanently broke in that time

And how many prolonged periods of injury did O'Driscoll have? - quite a few which makes the original comparison bogus.

yappysnap wrote:As an aside Charlie Mathews played his 100th game for his club last week at the age of 24, Elliot Daly played his 120th club game on the weekend at 23.

Brian O'Driscol played 189 games for Leinster in his career.

Do t know where I'm going with this, just thought it was interesting that's all.

Craig Gilroy played has played 113 games for Ulster at 24. Paddy Jackson has played 90 games at 23. And both those players have international caps, unlike Daly and Matthews.

You can't compare the amount of rugby young players play now to the amount played when O'Driscoll was the same age.

Golden wrote:Ben Te'o is off to Worcester at the end of the season. Surely its not a case of Leinster not been able to compete with them?

He is qualified for England so that might have played a part.

Bad loss for Leinster. Probably a sign that you know who is on his way.....

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:

yappysnap wrote:As an aside Charlie Mathews played his 100th game for his club last week at the age of 24, Elliot Daly played his 120th club game on the weekend at 23.

Brian O'Driscol played 189 games for Leinster in his career.

Do t know where I'm going with this, just thought it was interesting that's all.

And how many international caps have those guys got?

For reference Jonny Wilkinson made 182 appearance for the Falcons in 11 seasons.

Thats a horrible comparison to make given that JW was permanently broke in that time

Its not a bad comparison as he wasn't 'permanently broke' it was only after the 2003 RWC he started picking up injuries. BOD wasn't much different he played a lot of the time with injuries that were managed by limiting his games

Notch wrote:They don't take rugby seriously in New Zealand?

is there a sarcasism button in this form? if so i would have pressed it when making that comment!!! Tongue was firmly placed in cheek!

Super Rugby Kiwi attendances are poor in comparison to the rest. Crusaders average 16,200. Its all about the ABs in New Zealand.

http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=453

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

For me personally no. I wouldn't be any more likely to go and watch the team if Carter was starting because I support Ulster - the team not an individual. However I agree that there would undoubtedly be some star struck casual fans who would want to see him in the flesh. However there is only one Dan Carter, and there are very few other star names with the international cachet that would draw hordes of casual fans who have heard of them. The traditional 6N appeal is not based on star names but rather tribes going to war. Those fans scouring the club team sheet to decide whether they are going to a game or not have missed the tribal concept of supporting their team. Some games are sold out weeks in advance, long before the coach knows who's even fit for the game. Sponsorship deals are negotiated months in advance so they aren't affected by who plays where and when.

Obviously it is easier to get sponsorship deals with someone like Carter on board but getting Carter isn't cheap in the first place and it would maybe only be worth it in massive markets like France. The biggest name in Irish rugby is Paul O'Connell and he's left - has his departure made one iota of difference to either gates or sponsorship deals - unlikely.

Sin é wrote:Super Rugby Kiwi attendances are poor in comparison to the rest. Crusaders average 16,200.  Its all about the ABs in New Zealand.

http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=453

Not according to that link it isn't. Average attendances for the five New Zealand teams:-

Hurricanes 9, 071
Chiefs 14, 736
Blues 18, 804
Highlanders 11,170
Crusaders 16,200

Thats about the same as the provinces in Ireland get. In fact with Munsters dwindling support and Connacht's lower attendances you could say they have a higher support than the whole of the Pro12 teams. Those figures would even match the English attendances. Also considering they have more Pro teams with a small population, that is not bad going.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Super Rugby Kiwi attendances are poor in comparison to the rest. Crusaders average 16,200.  Its all about the ABs in New Zealand.

http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=453

Not according to that link it isn't. Average attendances for the four New Zealand teams:-

Chiefs 14, 736
Blues 18, 804
Highlanders 11,170
Crusaders 16,200

Thats about the same as the provinces in Ireland get. In fact with Munsters dwindling support and Connacht's lower attendances you could say they have a higher support than the whole of the Pro12 teams. Those figures would even match the English attendances.

Im pretty sure Sin meant compared to the rest of the Super Rugby teams

When you consider its the national sport in NZ they should have higher attendances than the Irish provinces surely?

The Great Aukster wrote:Obviously it is easier to get sponsorship deals with someone like Carter on board but getting Carter isn't cheap in the first place and it would maybe only be worth it in massive markets like France. The biggest name in Irish rugby is Paul O'Connell and he's left - has his departure made one iota of difference to either gates or sponsorship deals - unlikely.

I thought Munster's attendances were down this season. I could be wrong though.

marty2086 wrote:
When you consider its the national sport in NZ they should have higher attendances than the Irish provinces surely?

They have those figures prove it. They also have a smaller population and one more Pro team. So lets say we add the two lowest average attendances together and compare them with the four teams from Ireland, Wales, and the four from Scotland and Italy between them, and I would argue that they have more support than we do.

The Great Aukster wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

For me personally no. I wouldn't be any more likely to go and watch the team if Carter was starting because I support Ulster - the team not an individual. However I agree that there would undoubtedly be some star struck casual fans who would want to see him in the flesh. However there is only one Dan Carter, and there are very few other star names with the international cachet that would draw hordes of casual fans who have heard of them. The traditional 6N appeal is not based on star names but rather tribes going to war. Those fans scouring the club team sheet to decide whether they are going to a game or not have missed the tribal concept of supporting their team. Some games are sold out weeks in advance, long before the coach knows who's even fit for the game. Sponsorship deals are negotiated months in advance so they aren't affected by who plays where and when.

Obviously it is easier to get sponsorship deals with someone like Carter on board but getting Carter isn't cheap in the first place and it would maybe only be worth it in massive markets like France. The biggest name in Irish rugby is Paul O'Connell and he's left - has his departure made one iota of difference to either gates or sponsorship deals - unlikely.

Under the stars need to play theory Healy would be starting every week ahead of McGrath even though McGrath is the for LH for Leinster, which is better for the league?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
When you consider its the national sport in NZ they should have higher attendances than the Irish provinces surely?

They have those figures prove it. They also have a smaller population and one more Pro team. So lets say we add the two lowest average attendances together and compare them with the four teams from Ireland, Wales, and the four from Scotland and Italy between them, and I would argue that they have more support than we do.

They also play less home games a season

marty2086 wrote:They also play less home games a season

Tell that to Sin é, I am only using his logic. Anyway, the support is there, for a country with a population of just 4.4 million, it ain't bad.

The Great Aukster wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

For me personally no. I wouldn't be any more likely to go and watch the team if Carter was starting because I support Ulster - the team not an individual. However I agree that there would undoubtedly be some star struck casual fans who would want to see him in the flesh. However there is only one Dan Carter, and there are very few other star names with the international cachet that would draw hordes of casual fans who have heard of them. The traditional 6N appeal is not based on star names but rather tribes going to war. Those fans scouring the club team sheet to decide whether they are going to a game or not have missed the tribal concept of supporting their team. Some games are sold out weeks in advance, long before the coach knows who's even fit for the game. Sponsorship deals are negotiated months in advance so they aren't affected by who plays where and when.

Obviously it is easier to get sponsorship deals with someone like Carter on board but getting Carter isn't cheap in the first place and it would maybe only be worth it in massive markets like France. The biggest name in Irish rugby is Paul O'Connell and he's left - has his departure made one iota of difference to either gates or sponsorship deals - unlikely.

i agree with all you have said here, for me a star name would not get me to a match as the team is far more important, but like you said for the casual fan may be drawn to a few extra matches.

in terms of the POC, you are right, him alone would not affect game receipts etc, but the evidence would suggest that POC, ROG, Wallace, Leamy etc finishing with Munster over the past 5 years has had a collective affect on Munsters attendences. Back to the original argument, all these great players bring success, and with that success comes bums on seats.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i don't have evidence, its an opinion. If Dan Carter was to put on your clubs shirt would you be more likely to go watch your team?

For me personally no. I wouldn't be any more likely to go and watch the team if Carter was starting because I support Ulster - the team not an individual. However I agree that there would undoubtedly be some star struck casual fans who would want to see him in the flesh. However there is only one Dan Carter, and there are very few other star names with the international cachet that would draw hordes of casual fans who have heard of them. The traditional 6N appeal is not based on star names but rather tribes going to war. Those fans scouring the club team sheet to decide whether they are going to a game or not have missed the tribal concept of supporting their team. Some games are sold out weeks in advance, long before the coach knows who's even fit for the game. Sponsorship deals are negotiated months in advance so they aren't affected by who plays where and when.

Obviously it is easier to get sponsorship deals with someone like Carter on board but getting Carter isn't cheap in the first place and it would maybe only be worth it in massive markets like France. The biggest name in Irish rugby is Paul O'Connell and he's left - has his departure made one iota of difference to either gates or sponsorship deals - unlikely.

i agree with all you have said here, for me a star name would not get me to a match as the team is far more important, but like you said for the casual fan may be drawn to a few extra matches.

in terms of the POC, you are right, him alone would not affect game receipts etc, but the evidence would suggest that POC, ROG, Wallace, Leamy etc finishing with Munster over the past 5 years has had a collective affect on Munsters attendences. Back to the original argument, all these great players bring success, and with that success comes bums on seats.

Five years ago, Ulster were averaging less than 9k a game, last season it was over 16k. That's been brought about by an upturn in fortunes and a feel good factor around the club which has led to increased media interest locally. All of it has been a factor in drawing in new fans along with old fans that drifted away.

In the local media Ulster used to be an afterthought when reporting sport behind the Premier League, national teams, GAA etc and sometimes you'd see local hockey scores reported before Ulster.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Super Rugby Kiwi attendances are poor in comparison to the rest. Crusaders average 16,200.  Its all about the ABs in New Zealand.

http://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=453

Not according to that link it isn't. Average attendances for the four New Zealand teams:-

Chiefs 14, 736
Blues 18, 804
Highlanders 11,170
Crusaders 16,200

Thats about the same as the provinces in Ireland get. In fact with Munsters dwindling support and Connacht's lower attendances you could say they have a higher support than the whole of the Pro12 teams. Those figures would even match the English attendances.

Im pretty sure Sin meant compared to the rest of the Super Rugby teams

When you consider its the national sport in NZ they should have higher attendances than the Irish provinces surely?

Correct. Dan Carter with the Crusaders doesn't pull a bigger crowd than the Blues who are perennial underachievers. Any comparision between Super Rugby and NH should be with the Heineken/Champions Cup gates.

Edit: Munster's dwindling support? The Munster v Leicester game was the best attended game for the Champs Cup weekend (22k I think) and bigger than the game the following week in Welford Rd (21K).

By the way - 45K for the Leinster game v Toulon.

The player drain in Ireland continues, SOB signs a new 3 year contract

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnlmZ2d1SM8

marty2086 wrote:
Five years ago, Ulster were averaging less than 9k a game, last season it was over 16k. That's been brought about by an upturn in fortunes and a feel good factor around the club which has led to increased media interest locally. All of it has been a factor in drawing in new fans along with old fans that drifted away.

That, and signings like Pienaar.

21K tickets sold for the Munster v Leinster game next Sunday. Still unsure as to who will be allowed play

marty2086 wrote:The player drain in Ireland continues, SOB signs a new 3 year contract

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnlmZ2d1SM8

Waste of money. O'Brien is past it. Time to invest in the younger fellas in Connacht and Ulster

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
Five years ago, Ulster were averaging less than 9k a game, last season it was over 16k. That's been brought about by an upturn in fortunes and a feel good factor around the club which has led to increased media interest locally. All of it has been a factor in drawing in new fans along with old fans that drifted away.

That, and signings like Pienaar.

Actually the average attendances were down a few hundred in his first season when he, Wannenburg and Muller came in. They did bring improved performances and were part of making the team more competitive, the signings alone don't seem to have boosted attendances.

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:The player drain in Ireland continues, SOB signs a new 3 year contract

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnlmZ2d1SM8

Waste of money. O'Brien is past it.  Time to invest in the younger fellas in Connacht and Ulster

Based on what? And who should they be investing in?

Sin é wrote:21K tickets sold for the Munster v Leinster game next Sunday. Still unsure as to who will be allowed play

Doesn't matter really - the fans will still turn out.

Pity the Welsh teams couldn't do the same with their fans. And now they want to increase imports even more from their current 6+2 quotas.

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:The player drain in Ireland continues, SOB signs a new 3 year contract

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnlmZ2d1SM8

Waste of money. O'Brien is past it.  Time to invest in the younger fellas in Connacht and Ulster

Based on what? And who should they be investing in?

Based on his performances over the last 12 months. He's massively injury prone and will only decline further.

They should invest in younger back row players - specifically in Connacht and Ulster to balance out the national team. Leinster have too many players in the test squad. Not good for them, not for the other provinces.

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:The player drain in Ireland continues, SOB signs a new 3 year contract

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnlmZ2d1SM8

Waste of money. O'Brien is past it.  Time to invest in the younger fellas in Connacht and Ulster

Totally agree, if Henry and Muldoon are good enough then they're old enough.

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:The player drain in Ireland continues, SOB signs a new 3 year contract

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnlmZ2d1SM8

Waste of money. O'Brien is past it.  Time to invest in the younger fellas in Connacht and Ulster

Based on what? And who should they be investing in?

Based on his performances over the last 12 months.  He's massively injury prone and will only decline further.

They should invest in younger back row players - specifically in Connacht and Ulster to balance out the national team. Leinster have too many players in the test squad. Not good for them, not for the other provinces.

He was in good form before his shoulder injury, was probably rushed back for the RWC and will take a while to find his form again as the whole team isn't firing

If only the IRFU had thought about spreading players out

what cetic unions want is some rich mug to burn money for them but the union maintains total control, the private model doesnt work because benefactors want the control if their spending their own money