Aviva Premiership - Round 8

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 30 Dec 2015, 12:44 pm

First topic message reminder :

Friday 1^st January 2016
Northampton Saints (5) vs. Exeter Chiefs (2)
Saints have been struggling for form and results recently, and although they’ll be happy to be back at Franklins Gardens, they’ll be less happy at facing an in form Exeter Chiefs. You would think that Saints will be out to prove a point after being the first AP side to lose to Irish this season, and I suspect they will up their game. Exeter won’t be easy to beat, but I fancy Saints to nick a tight one.

Saturday 2^nd January 2016
Gloucester (6) vs. London Irish (11)
Gloucester had a high scoring draw against Quins last week, but could be counting the cost with a couple of key men picking up injuries. Irish got on the board, and despite a 2nd row injury crisis didn’t pick up any fresh knocks in beating Saints. This game could tell us a fair amount about the respective sides. Irish will fancy this, and be looking to get a good run going. What they don’t want to do is get too fast and loose, with the scrum and maul both having worked well last week. They could be key tools in bagging back to back AP wins for the first time in a year!

Newcastle Falcons (12) vs. Bath Rugby (7)
Bath have not been firing on all cylinders, and Falcons are winless, despite what I am told was a decent showing last time out against Tigers. This for me is a tough game to call. If conditions are good, I fancy Bath to win a high scorer. If it’s wet and windy, I can see Falcons grinding this one out against a Bath pack that has failed to dominate this season.

Saracens (1) vs. Leicester Tigers (3)
Saracens look unbeatable at present. Whoever they rotate in, they are a well oiled machine, who do their basics well and get results. That said, Tigers, whilst not completely firing on all cylinders are getting results, and despite their recent record against Sarries not being great (whose is?), they are the one side that you just wouldn’t back against getting a result. I think this one will be close, and will depend on who both sides put out, but it’s impossible to predict a Saracens defeat right now, home win.

Sale Sharks (9) vs. Wasps (8)
Despite a couple of excellent performances and results, Wasps find themselves down in 8^th in the AP. Sale have yet to convince and after a bright start were distinctly 2^nd best against the Chiefs last time out. On paper I would say Wasps, but at home and with Steve Diamond chewing their backsides, I reckon Sale may well tough this one out for the win.

Sunday 3^rd January 2016
Worcester Warriors (10) vs. Harlequins (4)
Worcester have been in most of their games (Saracens excepted) and will fancy this at home. Quins appear to be rediscovering their mojo, which they had misplaced last season, but will be disappointed with their error count in the draw against Gloucester last week. I can see this being a bit of an open gunfight, which Worcester just lose out on, but it could be one of those losses where they pick up 2 bonus points on the way.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 01 Jan 2016, 5:31 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Saints not looking too bad so far. Very nearly a try for George North.

Was I seeing things, or did North push the ball back and then flick it over his head with his feet. Playing the wrong game if he meant it. Also means it should have been a try to Collins.

Seeing things. He tickled it forward then hit it accidently with his foot. Awful from North though, bend his knees a bit more and easy try.

by yappysnap Fri 01 Jan 2016, 5:33 pm

Blimey that's 80 minutes that I'm never getting back.

For Saints it was all about the win and they got it so they'll be happy. Still looked clueless at times in attack and with almost total control of the game they should expect to score more.

by ChequeredJersey Fri 01 Jan 2016, 5:37 pm

Wanted Ex to win but table wise it's better for us that Saints did

by **LondonTiger** Fri 01 Jan 2016, 5:43 pm

yappysnap wrote:Blimey that's 80 minutes that I'm never getting back.

For Saints it was all about the win and they got it so they'll be happy. Still looked clueless at times in attack and with almost total control of the game they should expect to score more.

Saints were trying to move the ball, but are so short on confidence and form they laboured like crazy.

Game was not helped by Doyle's insistence on being central tothe action.

by WELL-PAST-IT Fri 01 Jan 2016, 6:58 pm

LT, if I didn't have that optimistic outlook, the teams I support would make me a manic depressive.

Easy to say that about North, not so easy when you have to bend down on the run and do it. Still, I think I could have caught it and I am the same sort of size as him. See always optimistic.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 01 Jan 2016, 7:23 pm

That incident was symptomatic of where Saints and North are at the moment. This time last year he gathers it cleanly and slides over - but 12 months on and things not clicking for him or team.

Yet despite that Saints are still in the top half of the AP and still in with a chance in Europe. They just need things to click and they could be flying.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 01 Jan 2016, 8:46 pm

Awful game. Exeter look like their confidence has taken a real hot after the Clermont double header whilst Saints seem to have no confidence at all. Saints seem to be missing leadership and that wasn't added when Hartley entered the fray, he looked the second choice hooker. Why on earth Saints haven't signed an injury cover back row player is beyond me. Short term loan of from Super 15 shouldn't have been too difficult.

The result as it stands helps things stay competitive in the league. Shame Tigers are unlikely to help things in that department.

by yappysnap Fri 01 Jan 2016, 11:01 pm

Come on Tigers, nows your chance to shine!

by king_carlos Fri 01 Jan 2016, 11:17 pm

Our best performances this season have come with 2 sevens in our pack, tomorrow we have none. Plus we are missing Cole and Fitzgerald who are both stronger than their counterparts at the breakdown.

Our pack is full of ball carriers and the back line packed with pace so it could be exciting to watch but if our error count is as high as it was on boxing day we will get slaughtered by Sarries on the counter.

If we can get a scrum advantage then we might score some tries and get a LBP. I can't see us getting anything more than that though.

by nathan Fri 01 Jan 2016, 11:33 pm

Pretty much agree with what Carlos said, can't see us getting the win

by Heaf Sat 02 Jan 2016, 12:59 am

nathan wrote:Jp having an awful game

Does he ever not? He's hopeless ...

by **LondonTiger** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 8:19 am

Heaf wrote:
nathan wrote:Jp having an awful game

Does he ever not? He's hopeless ...

Yet still one of the best in the AP Sad

I do not think reffing has ever been harder, but the standard worldwide is really poor atm.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 9:17 am

I do agree that reffing standards are not great, however I do think some of that comes down to perception and bias of fans. Fans have changed and I would say we are more biased towards our own sides and less accepting of things going against them than in days past.

Many's the game were supporters of both sides on here complain about the ref and in their eyes the ref has favoured the opposition and their side have had it harsh. In those situations both cannot be right. Both claim the referee was poor because they did not get the decisions they wanted. Perhaps sometimes the referee actually did ok, we just don't like to admit it, particularly if our team lost.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 02 Jan 2016, 9:42 am

The countless replays and tmo calls obviously don't help with this Oz. There does seem to be a lot more whinging this season though, no fingers pointed obviously Wink

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 02 Jan 2016, 10:31 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Heaf wrote:
nathan wrote:Jp having an awful game

Does he ever not? He's hopeless ...

Yet still one of the best in the AP

I do not think reffing has ever been harder, but the standard worldwide is really poor atm.

Really do hope that was tongue in cheek LT, I cannot remember him having a good game.

He seems to be a ref that is 100% or 0%, he is always at the extreme of pinging everythiong or pinging nothing. he either bores the pants off people constantly reviewing events via the TMO or ignores him completely. Did he use him yesterday, BT did showing replays of high tackles, potentially dangerous tackles etc. he didn't once from my recollection.

Chunky Norwich won't like it, but in my opinion he is not fit to polish Nigel Owens boots

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 10:55 am

Ozzy, but on the other hand lots of these comments come from neutrals. I don't think they have a reason to show bias... Unless sarries are playing

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 11:01 am

nathan, I don't disagree. But we do also see on here neutrals disagreeing over decisions made by referees. The laws, rightly or wrongly do allow for a pretty subjective decision making process, meaning that 9 times out of 10 most referees have got things right by the letter of the law. I suspect it's the laws that need looking at, as opposed to the referees.

by yappysnap Sat 02 Jan 2016, 11:25 am

Rugby is 15 guys trying to cheat/beat another 15 guys.

But it's also 30 blokes trying to do the same to the ref. There'll always be perceived faults, social media and forums just make it easier to complain.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 02 Jan 2016, 12:30 pm

I think the technological aspect makes it easier to criticise referees. Everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes. At amateur level I fund that mistakes are generally more accepted by players (not always). At professional level where a certain level of skill is expected and replays are available we assume that referees should make the right call. As Ozzy says bias always comes into the picture but that is human nature.

The reality is reffing is increasingly difficult at the highest level and referees who take control of games early and speak with authority tend to be those that get the best reactions. It is difficult to develop an air of authority though and trying to control 30 rugby players is similar to trying to herd cats.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 2:30 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:nathan, I don't disagree. But we do also see on here neutrals disagreeing over decisions made by referees. The laws, rightly or wrongly do allow for a pretty subjective decision making process, meaning that 9 times out of 10 most referees have got things right by the letter of the law. I suspect it's the laws that need looking at, as opposed to the referees.

At every breakdown there are usually several incidents of "lawbreaking". With a limited view, and one view only, the ref needs to decide which team to ping - yet both are offending. Spectators will get irate - but usually the ref is not wrong, just making a judgement call.

Anyone who thinks reffing is easy should have a go - while it can be rewarding it is far from easy.

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 2:35 pm

Score predictions for sarries/tigers?

I'm going with sarries by 14 to 20

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 2:50 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:nathan, I don't disagree. But we do also see on here neutrals disagreeing over decisions made by referees. The laws, rightly or wrongly do allow for a pretty subjective decision making process, meaning that 9 times out of 10 most referees have got things right by the letter of the law. I suspect it's the laws that need looking at, as opposed to the referees.

At every breakdown there are usually several incidents of "lawbreaking". With a limited view, and one view only, the ref needs to decide which team to ping - yet both are offending. Spectators will get irate - but usually the ref is not wrong, just making a judgement call.

Anyone who thinks reffing is easy should have a go - while it can be rewarding it is far from easy.

Indeed. I have a friend who referees at a decent standard. He basically said if he pinged everything we'd have a penalty at every breakdown. he looks for whether the offence has had a major influence. If yes, he pings it, if no he doesn't.

by Guest Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:05 pm

nathan wrote:Score predictions for sarries/tigers?

I'm going with sarries by 14 to 20

I've gone for Saracens by 5, but I also think it'll be much more comfortable for them than that scoreline would suggest.

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:06 pm

Ah for gods sake!!!

by formerly known as Sam Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:17 pm

I expect Sarries to really stick the boot in and kick us to death in the first half before grabbing a couple of tries as we try and force our way back in. How many mistakes we make will dictate whether Sarries can the TBP. I'd be happy with a LBP but can't see it.

Shame we're being denied Smith vs Barritt in the midfield that would have been a bruising encounter.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:22 pm

Real old slugfest in awful conditions on what can only be described as a bog at Castle Grim!

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:23 pm

Get in....

Come on you falcons!!!

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:28 pm

Wow big scrum from Bath.

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:30 pm

All from a dodgy penalty decision

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:38 pm

Great kick

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:41 pm

3 minutes to half time and we are 14-6 up.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:41 pm

Need to hold out to the break.

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:44 pm

Henry Thomas yellow card

by yappysnap Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:46 pm

You can not drag a player along the ground into touch once their tackled ref

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:47 pm

You talking about Ashton yappy?

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:50 pm

Half time...happy days.

Can we play 80 mins instead of 40mins!

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:50 pm

Slater off, not good

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:52 pm

Croft off too

by **LondonTiger** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:57 pm

Is coming in at the side and kicking ball out of ruck legal?

by king_carlos Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:58 pm

I've just got in and seen Croft sat on the sidelines.

What happened to him and Slater?

by **LondonTiger** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:00 pm

king_carlos wrote:I've just got in and seen Croft sat on the sidelines.

What happened to him and Slater?

Slater looked like knee, no idea croft

by king_carlos Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:03 pm

Oh dear. Hopefully not serious is all that can ever be said there!

Charlie is keeping us in touch with his kicking here.

Perhaps a harsh decision on TV there. As tackler I thought he was well within the laws to go for that. Ref thought he took too much time though. It's one of those calls that often go either way when a tackler gets up and goes for the ball like that. If the ruck's formed it looks so messy/wrong but I thought that was fine. Very similar to Kvesic turnover for Hooks try last weekend.

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:04 pm

Was dissapointed with the penalty he gave that let to series try. Didn't think ayerza was anywhere near the ball

by Heaf Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:07 pm

king_carlos wrote:Oh dear. Hopefully not serious is all that can ever be said there!

Charlie is keeping us in touch with his kicking here.

Perhaps a harsh decision on TV there. As tackler I thought he was well within the laws to go for that. Ref thought he took too much time though. It's one of those calls that often go either way when a tackler gets up and goes for the ball like that. If the ruck's formed it looks so messy/wrong but I thought that was fine. Very similar to Kvesic turnover for Hooks try last weekend.

Doubly harsh for me as MV looked like he cleared out a Tigers defender by going around the ruck and in the side ...

by nathan Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:10 pm

Suspect sarries will grind out the win now with the wind behind them

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:11 pm

For gods sake Latu!!!!! Stop conceding penalties!!!!

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:13 pm

Which game should I be watching?

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:17 pm

Ah ref that was never a penalty

by yappysnap Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:18 pm

nathan wrote:You talking about Ashton yappy?

Yea he does it a lot and it irritates me

by Geordie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:18 pm

Yet again we haven't even come out in the second half!!!

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