Aviva Premiership - Round 1

Finally it is back. Welcome to the first Round thread for the 2015/16 premiership.

After a summer full of acrimony, threats and toys most definitely thrown out of prams, what can we expect from the new season. The launch will probably slip a little under the radar for the general public. Non-english rugby fans will be paying attention to the World Cup, while the casual follower within England will assume that rugby has gone into hibernation again for 4 years.

Most of the teams have seen a fair few comings and goings, with champions Saracens being the quietest in the “transfer” market and seemingly not using their second marquee signing. Pretty sure their lawyers will find a way to incorporate that allowance into their spend though.




Fixtures:

Fri 16th Oct 15
19:45 Harlequins  v   Wasps Twickenham Stoop
19:45 Worcester  v   Northampton Sixways BT Sport
20:00 Newcastle  v   Gloucester Kingston Park


Sat 17th Oct 15
14:00 Bath    v   Exeter   Recreation Ground BT Sport
14:00 Saracens  v   Sale Allianz Park


Sun 18th Oct 15
15:15 London Irish  v   Leicester Madejski Stadium




Major Movements:

Bath

In: Nikola Matawalu, Rhys Priestland
Out: Paul James, Olly Woodburn,  Micky Young, Dave Sisi, Peter Stringer, Carl Fearns


Exeter
In: Geoff Parling, Olly Woodburn, Michele Campagnaro, Julian Salvi, James Short
Out: Tom James, Greg Bateman, Dean Mumm, Fetu'u Vainikolo, Joel Conlon to England Saracens, James Scaysbrook


Gloucester
In:  Jeremy Thrush, Paul Doran-Jones, Tom Lindsay
Out:  Dan Robson, Tom Palmer, Shaun Knigh, Shane Monahan


Harlequins
In:  James Horwill, Adam Jones from Wales, Tim Visser, Winston Stanley, Jamie Roberts, Mat Luamanu
Out: Paul Doran-Jones, Joe Trayfoot, George Robson, Ugo Monye, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, Darryl Marfo, Tom Williams, Tom Casson, Jordan Turner-Hall


Leicester
In:  Opeti Fonua, Mike Williams, Brendon O'Conno, Peter Betham, Michael Fitzgerald, Lachlan McCaffrey, Jono Kitto, Greg Bateman, Dominic Barrow
Out:  Jamie Gibson, Geoff Parling, Neil Briggs, Pablo Matera, Louis Deacon, Blaine Scully, Brad Thorn, Scott Hamilton, Robert Barbieri, Julian Salvi, David Mele, Anthony Allen


London Irish
In:  Ben Franks, Sean Maitland, Brendan McKibbin, Joe Trayfoot, Dominic Waldouck, Dave Sisi, Matt Symons, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, Rob McCusker
Out:  Tomas O'Leary, Tom Home, Kieran Low, Eamonn Sheridan, Daniel Leo, Jamie Hagan, James Short, Michael Mayhew

Newcastle
In: Micky Young, Mike Delany, Marcus Watson, Sonatane Takulua, Taione Vea, Jon Welsh, Nili Latu, Giovanbattista Venditti, Mouritz Botha, Todd Clever
Out:  Kieran Brookes, Mike Blai, Andy Saull, Phil Godman, Chris York, Dominic Barrow, Rory Clegg, Oliver Tomaszczyk, Noah Cato, Jamie Helleur, Warren Fury


Northampton
In: JJ Hanrahan, Kieran Brookes, Jamie Gibson, Michael Paterson, Pat Howard, Paul Hill, Victor Matfield
Out:  Salesi Ma'afu, Samu Manoa, Phil Dowso, Dominic Waldouck, Tom Mercey


Sale
In:  Neil Briggs, Peter Stringe, Bryn Evans, Brian Mujati
Out:  Marc Jones, Mark Cueto, Michael Paterson, Will Cliff, Nathan Hines, Andy Forsyth, Alberto De Marchi , Luke McLean


Saracens
In:  Samuela Vunisa, Michael Rhodes, Joel Conlon
Out:  David Strettle, James Johnston, Nick de Jager


Wasps
In: Jimmy Gopperth, Dan Robson, Frank Hala, Brendan Macken, James Downey, George Smith, James Johnston, Charles Piutau
Out: Tom Varndel, William Helu, Charlie Davies, Tom Lindsay, Chris Bell, Andy Goode


Worcester

In: Andy Shor, Phil Dowson, Carl Kirwan, Tom Heathcote, Sam Lewis, Cooper Vuna, Na'ama Leleimalefaga, Bryce Heem, Donncha O'Callaghan, Tevita Cavubati, Africa Wynand Olivier
Out: Mike William, Agustin Creevy, Leonardo Senatore, Josh Drauniniu, James Percival, Ofa Fainga'anuku, Ignacio Mieres, Jonathan Thomas



Pre-Season Form

Bath: LLWL
Exeter: WWWW
Gloucester: LWLL
Harlequins: WWW
Leicester: LWWWW
London Irish: LLL
Newcastle: WLLLL
Northampton: WW
Sale: WWWL
Saracens: LLWL
Wasps: LWL
Worcester: LLL

Not sure how you go about trying to predict the first round. Wonder about Sarries preparations - 4 matches over an 8 week window. embarrassing losses to Ospreys, saints and a French Pro D2 side. Yet you feel come Saturday they will be ready for the visit of Sale.

Saints have had a limited warm up, but cannot see them lose to Worcester.

Both Wasps and Quins have recruited ion a large scale - who will settle the new boys in best?

Bath have lost twice to Exeter in pre-season. surely not 3 in a row?

Firday night fixture with that journey up to ~kingston Park coudl see a depressing start for Glaws.

Leicester have looked good in the backs but struggled in the pack during pre-season. Game at the Madj coudl be interesting.

That's come around way too quickly!

For what its worth, my opening day predictions would be ..

Wasps, Saints, Newcastle, Bath, Sarries, Leicester

Newcastle
In: Micky Young, Mike Delany, Marcus Watson, Sonatane Takulua, Taione Vea, Jon Welsh, Nili Latu, Giovanbattista Venditti, Mouritz Botha, Todd Clever, Ben Harris (LH), Paddy Ryan (TH) aswell
Out: Kieran Brookes, Mike Blai, Andy Saull, Phil Godman, Chris York, Dominic Barrow, Rory Clegg, Oliver Tomaszczyk, Noah Cato, Jamie Helleur, Warren Fury

Well the rugby paper has us as the favorites for the drop. But you know I realy think we'll be a tough proposition this season for a lot of teams.

And if we have signed John Hardie that's another quality signing to the likes of Todd Clever, Jon Welsh, Delaney, Botha etc.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Newcastle
In: Micky Young, Mike Delany, Marcus Watson, Sonatane Takulua, Taione Vea, Jon Welsh, Nili Latu, Giovanbattista Venditti, Mouritz Botha, Todd Clever, Ben Harris (LH), Paddy Ryan (TH) aswell
Out:  Kieran Brookes, Mike Blai, Andy Saull, Phil Godman, Chris York, Dominic Barrow, Rory Clegg, Oliver Tomaszczyk, Noah Cato, Jamie Helleur, Warren Fury

Well the rugby paper has us as the favorites for the drop. But you know I realy think we'll be a tough proposition this season for a lot of teams.

And if we have signed John Hardie that's another quality signing to the likes of Todd Clever, Jon Welsh, Delaney, Botha etc.

Hardie would be a fantastic signing for Falcons, hope there is some truth in that one!

Without sounding too confident or arrogant...I really hope we could achieve 8-10 this season.

We left a load of points on the pitch last season that would have moved us up the league and I feel we have signed wisely and strengthened areas of concern that should help us take those points this season...especially the front row.

And experience and leadership...knowledge of closing games out. Players like Latu (Tongan Captain), Clever (USA Captain), Botha (Saracens and England old guard) can only help us.

Wwwoooooooooooo

Time for some proper rugby

Geordie, what do you expect your side to be for Friday? We've got real issues at lock and in the backrow, so are going to be pretty depleted, nevertheless I'd expect a Glaws side to look something like:
Wood, Hibbard, Afoa, Savage, Stooke, Rowan, Kvesic, Ludlow; Heinz, 36, Purdy, Atkinson, Meakes, Sharples, Cook

We have a pretty poor record up at KP and no doubt they'll be gale force winds and blizzards, so I'd be quite happy with a LBP and no injuries.

I've been thinking for a few weeks that the opener against Wasps could well set the tone for Quins' season. They are probably the benchmark for a team wanting to challenge for the Top 4, last year we had a tough time against them, and they seem to have recruited well.

On the flip side, Quins' preseason has gone well, we've used some senior retirements to recruit some very good replacements (who have almost all gone well in preseason), we will only be missing Robshaw of our international contingent and the others have come back with a point to prove.

Against that, you have to set Wasps' form last season and a good squad strengthened by some smart signings.

Friday night's game is going to be full on, to say the least.

I wonder if Wasps have too many new faces to settle quickly.

HongKongCherry wrote:Geordie, what do you expect your side to be for Friday?  We've got real issues at lock and in the backrow, so are going to be pretty depleted, nevertheless I'd expect a Glaws side to look something like:
Wood, Hibbard, Afoa, Savage, Stooke, Rowan, Kvesic, Ludlow; Heinz, 36, Purdy, Atkinson, Meakes, Sharples, Cook

We have a pretty poor record up at KP and no doubt they'll be gale force winds and blizzards, so I'd be quite happy with a LBP and no injuries.

Weather isn't too bad at the moment...the temperature is just dropping a tad though.

Starting team...not 100% sure, we have injuries to Taione Vea, Mark Wilson and Will Welch at the moment. Not sure if they are available or not...so not including them and for the sake of it...including the internationals coming back maybe something like:

1 Rob Vickers / Ben Harris
2 Scott Lawson
3 Scott Wilson - Been very impressive this preseason...hope he continues that form.
4 Maurice Botha
5 Kane Thompson
6 Todd Clever
7 Nili Latu
8 Aly Hogg

9 Ruki Tipuna
10 Delaney / Catterick
11 Sinotti
12 Adam Powell
13 Chris Harris
14 Giovanbattista Venditti
15 Simon Hammersley

Of course I don't know which WC guys will be available or not.

I think the AP is the most open i have ever seen TBH.

Tigers I think we might see Leo and Cole on the bench. (Depending on how they feel). Reckon Goneva will prob start.

Kitchener prob biggest question mark is he fit or was he rested? Can't see Slater being involved yet.

There was no mention of Kitch in Cockers injury update, but who knows.

I would expect a team very similar to that which started against Sale, except with Goneva starting and maybe Pearce or Fonua at no8 with Williams dropping to the bench.

Of course, an awful lot depends on what comes back from the Salary Cap investigation. TRP reported last week that the PRL wanted to announce the conclusions - and sanctions on at least two miscreants - before the start of the season.

If that takes the form of a sizeable points deduction, then it would have very big repercussions for how open the season is.

LondonTiger wrote:There was no mention of Kitch in Cockers injury update, but who knows.

I would expect a team very similar to that which started against Sale, except with Goneva starting and maybe Pearce or Fonua at no8 with Williams dropping to the bench.

Yeh 8 on the weekend was a right mis mash.

Pearce hadn't trained due to wife giving birth and Fonua arriving 6 am Saturday morning.

Poorfour wrote:Of course, an awful lot depends on what comes back from the Salary Cap investigation. TRP reported last week that the PRL wanted to announce the conclusions - and sanctions on at least two miscreants - before the start of the season.

If that takes the form of a sizeable points deduction, then it would have very big repercussions for how open the season is.

I read that as well Poorfour. Whilst the Rugby Paper are often quite quick to publish stories such as these the part that interested me was the stand alone paragraph/sentence stating, "it is believe the alleged breaches do not relate to last season".

This to me could suggest that as widely suspected the clubs found to be breaking the cap last season were given a chance to get their house in order behind closed doors but have failed to do so.

Even if that is the case I would be extremely surprised if we saw any sanctions come from it but it is an interesting piece nonetheless.

As for the weekend I think Tigers will see something like:

1.Mulipola
2.Bateman
3.Balmain
4.Fitzgerald
5.Kitchener or De Chaves - Depends it Kitch is fit
6.Croft
7.McCaffery
8.Fonau or Pearce

9.Harrison
10.Burns

11.Goneva
12.Bai
13.Betham
14.Thompstone
15.Tait

16.Ghirildini or T Youngs - Could depend who's looking less tired basically
17.Brugnara
18.Cole
19.De Cheves or Williams
20.Williams/Fonau/Pearce - Depends who is available at 8 and second row
21.B Youngs
22.Bell
23.Loamanu

king_carlos wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Of course, an awful lot depends on what comes back from the Salary Cap investigation. TRP reported last week that the PRL wanted to announce the conclusions - and sanctions on at least two miscreants - before the start of the season.

If that takes the form of a sizeable points deduction, then it would have very big repercussions for how open the season is.

I read that as well Poorfour. Whilst the Rugby Paper are often quite quick to publish stories such as these the part that interested me was the stand alone paragraph/sentence stating, "it is believe the alleged breaches do not relate to last season".

This to me could suggest that as widely suspected the clubs found to be breaking the cap last season were given a chance to get their house in order behind closed doors but have failed to do so.

Even if that is the case I would be extremely surprised if we saw any sanctions come from it but it is an interesting piece nonetheless.

I read it quite differently - I think the "not last season" point was saying that it relates to several seasons ago. At least one team have allegedly been in breach of the cap for 4 seasons or more, and it's possible that the evidence is clearest from one of the earlier years.

However, we shall see.

As the investigation started December last year - it could not be for breaches last season.

I think the 13/14 season was the first one under the new rules after an amnesty was struck and cap increased significantly.

Any way we have a thread for that

i do worry Tigers were over the cap in previous seasons.

Like half the teams we were, before the agreed amnesty and cap increase.

We haven't really signed any notable names in recent seasons. Look back to 2009 though and we must have been pushing it. Then again we like taking the injury replacement rules right to he limit as well.

Poorfour wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Of course, an awful lot depends on what comes back from the Salary Cap investigation. TRP reported last week that the PRL wanted to announce the conclusions - and sanctions on at least two miscreants - before the start of the season.

If that takes the form of a sizeable points deduction, then it would have very big repercussions for how open the season is.

I read that as well Poorfour. Whilst the Rugby Paper are often quite quick to publish stories such as these the part that interested me was the stand alone paragraph/sentence stating, "it is believe the alleged breaches do not relate to last season".

This to me could suggest that as widely suspected the clubs found to be breaking the cap last season were given a chance to get their house in order behind closed doors but have failed to do so.

Even if that is the case I would be extremely surprised if we saw any sanctions come from it but it is an interesting piece nonetheless.

I read it quite differently - I think the "not last season" point was saying that it relates to several seasons ago. At least one team have allegedly been in breach of the cap for 4 seasons or more, and it's possible that the evidence is clearest from one of the earlier years.

However, we shall see.

OK 160 points deduction then - 40 for each season - seems fair ...

I am both wildly excited and completely bricking it about this season.

We should definitely be stronger than last year, but in reality it is going to take time for the new players, and new playing style to settle.  

Once again we have a tough start, with I beleive 5 of last seasons top 6 in our open block of fixtures.  Cannot wait for Sunday and our first real look at our new look side.

Quins and Irish seem to have recruited very well for this season.

George Carlin wrote:Quins and Irish seem to have recruited very well for this season.

Quins have historically been very good at taking rejects and unsung heroes and making something of them but, Nick Evans apart, our home grown players have generally done better than our big name signings. Early days yet, but it looks different this year. Jones and Horwill look to have had an immediate impact. Last season I think we came unstuck partly because we couldn't field enough senior players to hold the team together when the pressure was on. This year the roster of internationals is bigger and less likely to be injured.

LondonTiger wrote:There was no mention of Kitch in Cockers injury update, but who knows.

I would expect a team very similar to that which started against Sale, except with Goneva starting and maybe Pearce or Fonua at no8 with Williams dropping to the bench.

Is Manu likely to be involved LT?

Poorfour wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Quins and Irish seem to have recruited very well for this season.

Quins have historically been very good at taking rejects and unsung heroes and making something of them but, Nick Evans apart, our home grown players have generally done better than our big name signings. Early days yet, but it looks different this year. Jones and Horwill look to have had an immediate impact. Last season I think we came unstuck partly because we couldn't field enough senior players to hold the team together when the pressure was on. This year the roster of internationals is bigger and less likely to be injured.

A lot relies on George Lowe being managed correctly. Not being played on the crash ball at 12 would be a good start.

Lowe, Care and Nev on form will allow any backline we pick to be dangerous. Super dangerous.

For Quins its possibly only Robshaw and Brown that will be missing/rested for England! Roberts and Visser not with the side yet. That being the case I will leave them out and Ross Chisholm doesnt seem to have played the warmups so I assume he is injured.

I would like to see -
Marler, Ward, A.Jones
Merrick, Horwell,
Wallace, Clifford, Easter
Care
Evans
Charlie walker
Winston Stanley
Lowe
Yarde
Swiel

Sinkler, Grey, Collier, C.Mathews, Loumanu, Dickson, Botica, H.Sloan

Or something to that effect.

propdavid_london wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:There was no mention of Kitch in Cockers injury update, but who knows.

I would expect a team very similar to that which started against Sale, except with Goneva starting and maybe Pearce or Fonua at no8 with Williams dropping to the bench.

Is Manu likely to be involved LT?

No. Christmas at the earliest.

Is that injury or being a very naughty boy?

propdavid_london wrote:Is that injury or being a very naughty boy?

A groin strain - so possibly both

LondonTiger wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:Is that injury or being a very naughty boy?

A groin strain - so possibly both

Well Taity was miles away from fitness for ages and then all of a sudden he was fit and has played constantly ever since. Hopefully we'll see the same again with Manu. Club and country need him back.

We've got Matt Carley reffing on Sunday.  I think that's probably a good appointment.

Ozzy3213 wrote:We've got Matt Carley reffing on Sunday.  I think that's probably a good appointment.

Meh. Feel he has zero control of any game.

Big match first up. Both sides will likely rest some weary England players and both seem to have invested well. Hope Wasps have a great season, and think their team looks very strong, but I hope we crush them on FRiday and am much happier this year than I thought I'd be. Last season I conned myself into early optimism though so I'll be a bit warier this time around!

yappysnap wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Quins and Irish seem to have recruited very well for this season.

Quins have historically been very good at taking rejects and unsung heroes and making something of them but, Nick Evans apart, our home grown players have generally done better than our big name signings. Early days yet, but it looks different this year. Jones and Horwill look to have had an immediate impact. Last season I think we came unstuck partly because we couldn't field enough senior players to hold the team together when the pressure was on. This year the roster of internationals is bigger and less likely to be injured.

A lot relies on George Lowe being managed correctly. Not being played on the crash ball at 12 would be a good start.

Lowe, Care and Nev on form will allow any backline we pick to be dangerous. Super dangerous.

Add in Doc Roberts and Brown later, with Yarde, Visser and Walker out wide and you just hope Nev can get his spark on and our pack cope, because with an on form Nev, that is a tasty backline

LondonTiger wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:We've got Matt Carley reffing on Sunday.  I think that's probably a good appointment.

Meh. Feel he has zero control of any game.

I like that LT, get the criticism of the ref in early!

Doubt he will be one-sided, just incompetent. Sadly, while better than Pro12, refereeing standards in AP are not very good at the moment.

Teams up for Gloucester....

1 Rob Vickers,
2. Scott Lawson,
3. Taione Vea,
4. Mouritz Botha,
5. Calum Green,
6. Richard Mayhew,
7. Will Welch (c),
8. Todd Clever.

9. Ruki Tipuna
10. Mike Delany
11. Sinoti Sinoti
12. Adam Powell
13. Chris Harris
14. Tom Catterick
15 Simon Hammersley

Replacements: 16. George McGuigan, 17. Eric Fry, 18. Scott Wilson, 19. Josh Furno, 20. Ally Hogg, 21. Micky Young, 22. Craig Willis, 23. Tom Penny.

How much of an upgrade is that on what you were putting out last year GF? And have you any guys still to come back from the World Cup?

Its not bad actually Ozzy.

Delaney will control the game...a kiwi 10. Botha adds a bit to the lock area and Clever is quality.

Harris looks class so far. But Vea hasn't played and Scott Wilson has has been very good has been demoted to the bench. Vea looks a beast though.

Fingers crossed we'll start the season the way we want it to.

EDIT - Players to come back...Venditti Italy winger, Socino - Argentina, Kane Thompson - Samoa Lock, Nili Latu - Tonga Captain and 7 - Jon Welsh - Scotland Prop, Takulua - Tonga SH

I quite fancy Irish to take Tigers on this one as a bet. Its certainly not a great fixture for Tigers, one youd think they would be targetting to win if they have serious ambitions on the top 2 but coming at the worst time for them with absences and a pretty comprehensive rebuild of the squad still at an early stage.
Irish have recruited a bit of quality and could get off to a flyer.

nathan wrote:i do worry Tigers were over the cap in previous seasons.

Going way back to its infancy they were, more recently Im not so sure.
The main investigations have always been about Bath and Saracens though, thats no (well kept) secret.

Tigers have not been over since 2010/11 season.

Harlequins Team
15. Ollie Lindsay-Hague
14. Marland Yarde
13. George Lowe
12. Harry Sloan
11. Charlie Walker
10. Nick Evans©
9. Karl Dickson

1. Mark Lambert
2. Dave Ward
3. Adam Jones
4. James Horwill
5. Sam Twomey
6. Jack Clifford
7. Luke Wallace
8. Mat Luamanu

16. Joe Gray
17. Joe Marler
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Charlie Matthews
20. Nick Easter
21. Tito Tebaldi
22. Ben Botica
23. Mike Brown

Slightly surprised that new club skipper Danny Care does not feature at all. COS brings England players in on the bench.

Meanwhile Dai Young leaves out his England players, while we see Ashley johnson starting at hooker:

Wasps’ squad to play Harlequins at The Stoop on Friday 16 October 2015, kick off 19:45.

15. Rob Miller
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Brendan Macken
11. Josh Bassett
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan (c)
2. Ashley Johnson
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. James Cannon
5. James Gaskell
6. Sam Jones
7. George Smith
8. Nathan Hughes

Replacements
16. Carlo Festuccia
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Phil Swainston
19. Kearnan Myall
20. Thomas Young
21. Dan Robson
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Sailosi Tagicakibau

GLOUCESTER: R Cook, C Sharples, B Meakes, M Atkinson, H Purdy, B Twelvetrees (captain), W Heinz;

P McAllister, R Hibbard, J Afoa, T Savage, E Stooke, J Rowan, M Kvesic, L Ludlow.

Replacements: T Lindsay, Y Thomas, P Doran-Jones, S Kalamafoni, B Morgan, C Braley, J May, S McColl.

Gloucester Rugby:

Rob Cook; Charlie Sharples, Bill Meakes, Mark Atkinson, Henry Purdy; Billy Twelvetrees (capt), Willi Heinz; Paddy McAllister, Richard Hibbard, John Afoa; Tom Savage, Elliott Stooke; Jacob Rowan, Matt Kvesic, Lewis Ludlow

Replacements:

Tom Lindsay, Yann Thomas, Paul Doran-Jones, Sione Kalamafoni, Ben Morgan, Callum Braley, Jonny May, Steve McColl

With 36 moving up to 10 and Willi Heinz (who) at 9, instead of the WC pairing of Hook and Laidlaw, Glaws look really beatable to me.


As with quins, Humphreys places his WC returnees on the bench.