6N 2016: Ireland v Wales, 7 February

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IRELAND v WALES
7 February 2016
KO: 15:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on RTE, ITV, FR2, DMAX, BBC(H)

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

123 Played 123
52 Won 67
4 Drawn 4
67 Lost 52
1,365 Points 1,461

B. Recent Form

29 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
10 – 16 to Wales

8 August 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
21 – 35 to Ireland

14 March 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 16 to Wales

8 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 3 to Ireland

2 February 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
22 – 30 to Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND

S Zebo; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), N White; D Toner, M McCarthy; CJ Stander, T O’Donnell, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, J Cronin, T Furlong, D Ryan, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, D Kearney.

WALES

G Anscombe; G North, J Davies, J Roberts, T James; D Biggar, G Davies; R Evans, S Baldwin, S Lee, L Charteris, A-W Jones, S Warburton (capt), J Tipuric, T Faletau.

Replacements: K Owens, G Jenkins, T Francis, B Davies, D Lydiate, L Williams, R Priestland, A Cuthbert

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-player-ratings-wales-six-nations-2589692-Feb2016/

I think the ratings here are a bit mad to be honest. Far too high for a lot of the players.

Rory you seem to have forgotten that Robbie Henshaw spent a full season in the Ireland squad as the 24th man being mentored by Brian O'Driscoll before making his first start for Ireland- if we follow that example McCloskey won't be starting until this time next year which is no doubt not the point you're trying to argue for.

Having said that, McCloskey was genuinely close to getting picked and the howls of protest are somewhat misguided. I'll be surprised if he isn't capped by the end of this season, assuming he doesn't get an injury.

I don't think we saw a single other team in this Six Nations successfully pull off an attacking game plan so far. We saw France go for it and fail and England and Scotland stutter in attack. I can't really remember the last time I saw any of the other Six Nations teams come out and play great attacking rugby on the first weekend- when we beat France in 2009 is the last time I can remember Ireland doing it. It doesn't happen very often.

So it's maybe no surprise that both coaches prioritised the best defensive set-up over attack, and Schmidt picked a centre partnership for its defensive understanding first and foremost. But- he's not alone in that is he? All the coaches apart from Noves have prioritised getting the defences ready and set first and foremost, thats where the time is being spent in training and thats the philosophy that this tournament promotes.

We know that there are some top coaches working in this tournament and when Schmidt, Gatland, Jones and Cotter are prioritising getting the defence right over trying to attack maybe it's time to stop criticising them as individuals and look at what needs to change in the way our season is structured to change that. We'll see all those teams get more fluent in attack as the tournament goes on, but when coaches have only a handful of training sessions to get a team ready- it's going to be conservative approaches that dominate. You can throw brickbats over selection and tactics, but there's a fundamental elephant in the room.

As for me, I'm just glad we have a coach who is capable of getting the team that well organised in such a short space of time despite losing several key players. Like I said earlier, I think that was an astonishingly accomplished Ireland performance under the circumstances and Wales also confirmed why they are tournament favourites.

Just want to say that I thought the ref had a really good game, let it flow and clear with all communication unlike Lacey who was very pendantic at the breakdown.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

theslosty wrote:2 questions

1. Why did Sexton kick so few times from hand when we were struggling to make ground?

2. Why did we kick for the corner on about 55 minutes when there was a fairly easy chance for Sexton to knock 3 over? About 40m out and very central.

The decision making was poor in this game.

It's quite simple, Ronan O'Gara owns the copyright to the act of kicking from hand in the style of a ligind. Sexton would have to pay him royalties which O'Gara would only gamble away. Schmidt quite clearly doesn't want any player in his team that would enable such behaviour which would, in all probability, lead to Lord ROG prostituting himself in Paris for a few Francs while singing I Dreamed a Dream from Les Miserables.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales for the Grand Slam!!!

Walesonline still think it's on

Shifty wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:Forget the players. It is the coaching, the attacking gameplan is so bereft of creativity and stuck in 09 it is unreal.

Players look unable or unwilling to offload, we don't know how to put men into space only into contact.

Howley admitted it himself when he said that our attack is based on going through phases and creating mismatches in the defensive line. The thing is, most pro players of all sizes are fairly comfortable defending at any point of their defensive system, and when all we do is crab across, it makes it easy to defend. We need to be coaching our players to offload in contact and simple, basic draw and pass into space which we seem unable to do.

I think Quins backs coach has been schooling Howley over the phone or something, as we're actually using Roberts for more than just a crashball centre.

Or maybe he's learned something different at Harlequins.  He did well today.  

He's always been capable of more and I've seen it at every club he's played for. If you're still buying into the old "going to England and France improves you as a player" then you need to wake up.

Just bean reading about Biggar not being avallble for next week ends game against Scotland.

If he is not avalible who will be on the bench. I am assuming Priestland will be the starting 10?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wales for the Grand Slam!!!

Walesonline still think it's on

No need to come on here and dick about is there? It might lead to somebody reminding you both of England's early world cup exit after claiming you were favourites for the title .

Notch wrote:Rory you seem to have forgotten that Robbie Henshaw spent a full season in the Ireland squad as the 24th man being mentored by Brian O'Driscoll before making his first start for Ireland- if we follow that example McCloskey won't be starting until this time next year which is no doubt not the point you're trying to argue for.

Having said that, McCloskey was genuinely close to getting picked and the howls of protest are somewhat misguided. I'll be surprised if he isn't capped by the end of this season, assuming he doesn't get an injury.

I don't think we saw a single other team in this Six Nations successfully pull off an attacking game plan so far. We saw France go for it and fail and England and Scotland stutter in attack. I can't really remember the last time I saw any of the other Six Nations teams come out and play great attacking rugby on the first weekend- when we beat France in 2009 is the last time I can remember Ireland doing it. It doesn't happen very often.

So it's maybe no surprise that both coaches prioritised the best defensive set-up over attack, and Schmidt picked a centre partnership for its defensive understanding first and foremost. But- he's not alone in that is he? All the coaches apart from Noves have prioritised getting the defences ready and set first and foremost, thats where the time is being spent in training and thats the philosophy that this tournament promotes.

We know that there are some top coaches working in this tournament and when Schmidt, Gatland, Jones and Cotter are prioritising getting the defence right over trying to attack maybe it's time to stop criticising them as individuals and look at what needs to change in the way our season is structured to change that. We'll see all those teams get more fluent in attack as the tournament goes on, but when coaches have only a handful of training sessions to get a team ready- it's going to be conservative approaches that dominate. You can throw brickbats over selection and tactics, but there's a fundamental elephant in the room.

As for me, I'm just glad we have a coach who is capable of getting the team that well organised in such a short space of time despite losing several key players. Like I said earlier, I think that was an astonishingly accomplished Ireland performance under the circumstances and Wales also confirmed why they are tournament favourites.

He was mentored by Brian O'Driscoll to play in the 13 position. The positional switch to 12 was forced whenever the other potential options (namely Luke Marshall and Stuart Olding at the time) were hampered by injury. Gordon D'Arcy was also an option but close to retirement. I think it was the right call to create the Henshaw-Payne midfield and I think it was the right call to use them for the RWC and it was unfortunate they only had one game together.

The decision to select Henshaw for this game however, I believe was the wrong one. Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing and I can see why Schmidt did decide to opt for the Henshaw-Payne partnership. However I genuinely believe that had McCloskey played this game at 12 alongside Jared Payne that we would have had more opportunities in attack. Obviously I cannot say for certain that it would have changed things for the positive but the evidence suggests that McCloskey is far superior at performing the role that Henshaw is being used for with Ireland. That includes defensively, probably most importantly.

I understand the pressure involved bringing in too many new starts in a team hampered by injuries and loss of key personnel. However this is one selection that I think could have actually won the game for us, and I rarely believe that one selection can make such a difference. There is little evidence to suggest that McCloskey would have struggled and I would say it was much more likely that the Welsh would have struggled with him.

I agree with the majority of your closing statement, however it is interesting that Ireland did not decide to play for territory and instead opted to attack from their own half during key moments of the game. This was surely a tactic that I think Schmidt had got wrong. Despite this I agree that we were overall a very well drilled team, especially in the first half.

majesticimperialman wrote:Just bean reading about Biggar not being avallble for next week ends game against Scotland.

If he is not avalible who will be on the  bench. I am assuming Priestland will be the starting 10?

Hopefully anscombe is back. During the World Cup Jonny wilkinson was mentioning that he used to practice and practice drop kicks because it became an easy three points for his team and he didn't have to rely on the opposition making an error to have the opportunity. Clearly priestland doesn't practice because he had two opportunities to put points over and missed both and frankly parisse's attempt yesterday was better and he's a back rower. We expect our front rowers to be strong at the scrum, expect our wingers to finish off tries add we should expect our fly half to put points on the board, yet in Wales the only fly half able to do that got injured in about 30 seconds.

Flash, bang, wallop what a picture!
Plenty of bang and wallop, but not much flash unfortunately.

mikey_dragon wrote:He's always been capable of more and I've seen it at every club he's played for. If you're still buying into the old "going to England and France improves you as a player" then you need to wake up.

No I don't think that, but sometimes a different country and club can freshen a player up.  I do notice that few Welsh players ever last more than 2 years away from Wales though.  I can't really think of any who have been a success in France or England.  Though it's worth noting any player who has failed in Wales, gone away and done well, then returned did badly when he came back.  Delve and andy Williams seemed to be better off away from Wales.  While others have fallen off the map totally since leaving Wales.

Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Roberts suddenly found his passing ability today, but unfortunately a lot of the time he went for massive miss passes that took out 2 of our runners and ended up on the wing. Ireland were able to drift and snuff out trouble. Great to see him adding more than just the crash, but he needs to do more than throw it as wide as possbible. We had overlaps wasted on occasion. And they're like rocking horse sh@t at this level!

A nod to Rhys Prisetland too. I'm usually critical, and haven't read many earlier posts so not sure of the general consensus, but I think he did well. Knocked on and did a poor kick, but got the back line moving I thought and kicked his penalties. Well done that man. Especially as he might have felt hard done by before the game having Liam Williamd leapfrog him from outside the squad completely to staring at FB when Anscombe pulled out.

Shifty wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:Forget the players. It is the coaching, the attacking gameplan is so bereft of creativity and stuck in 09 it is unreal.

Players look unable or unwilling to offload, we don't know how to put men into space only into contact.

Howley admitted it himself when he said that our attack is based on going through phases and creating mismatches in the defensive line. The thing is, most pro players of all sizes are fairly comfortable defending at any point of their defensive system, and when all we do is crab across, it makes it easy to defend. We need to be coaching our players to offload in contact and simple, basic draw and pass into space which we seem unable to do.

I think Quins backs coach has been schooling Howley over the phone or something, as we're actually using Roberts for more than just a crashball centre.

Or maybe he's learned something different at Harlequins.  He did well today.  

Saw him off load in the Quins game at Twickers. Used to off load for Cardiff too......

Cardiff Blues 25-22 Munster 2008.

"Munster appeared to have survived a late barrage until Wales squad winger Jamie Roberts burst through the middle and sent Selley under the posts."

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/rabo-direct-pro-12/2008/0301/228711-cardiff_munster/

Shifty wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Shifty wrote:I don't really see how Ireland can blame injuries while Wales aren't making too much of it.  Webb and Halfpenny are injured, Warburton, Liam Williams, and a few others are only back playing by a week or so since the World Cup.  Biggar went off early, and Anscombe broke down before the game.  
Jeepers and the Irish think THEY have problems!

Hmmmm ...... are you sure it's the Irish that's making the excuses?

I'll take the draw in Dublin.  No shame in that, it's just sad weve knocked each other out of Grand slam contention in the first week!

I'm happy with the draw. I would have taken that before the game. I had Wales as slight favourites

Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

He was a lot better than I could of ever hoped, I was more annoyed at the way that final penalty was given to Ireland at the end.  I'm not saying the draw wasn't a fair result to both teams, I'm just confused as to how it was an offence.  

I think Notch had issue with Wales holding on and not releasing, but Ireland were getting away with it as well, so at least the ref was consistent to both teams.

Seagultaf wrote:Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Theres no way that "tip" tackle was any kind of card. I don't think there was any kind of intent there, in my eyes.

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics. It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

I thought the last penalty was for North in front of the kicker Lloyd Williams whos kick was Shoite

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

RubyGuby wrote:I thought the last penalty was for North in front of the kicker Lloyd Williams whos kick was Shoite

Didnt the ball touch and irish player first though?

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I thought the last penalty was for North in front of the kicker Lloyd Williams whos kick was Shoite

Didnt the ball touch and irish player first though?

Nope. Just a rubbish kick i'm afraid.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I thought the last penalty was for North in front of the kicker Lloyd Williams whos kick was Shoite

Didnt the ball touch and irish player first though?

Nope. Just a rubbish kick i'm afraid.

Oh well that explains that.

The irony is I was shouting to get Lloyd Williams on as Davies was becoming a liability!!!!

Seagultaf wrote:Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Saying Biggar is a better player than Priestland these days is putting it lightly. Wales did improve as the game went on but that wasn't anything to do with your boy wonder. It still amazes me how pundits and some fans feel the need to talk up RP after he plays just alright, you'd think he was MOTM with the way they go on. Whilst I can eat my own words as he didn't cost us the match, he also failed to win it for us. I'm uncomfortable if he's next week's starter.

Shifty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I thought the last penalty was for North in front of the kicker Lloyd Williams whos kick was Shoite

Didnt the ball touch and irish player first though?

Nope. Just a rubbish kick i'm afraid.

Oh well that explains that.  

Should've retreated a tad I spose and let the Irish catch the ball unopposed.

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Anscombe or Priestland are the other lads in the squad.

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

He was a lot better than I could of ever hoped, I was more annoyed at the way that final penalty was given to Ireland at the end.  I'm not saying the draw wasn't a fair result to both teams, I'm just confused as to how it was an offence.  

I think Notch had issue with Wales holding on and not releasing, but Ireland were getting away with it as well, so at least the ref was consistent to both teams.

Seagultaf wrote:Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Theres no way that "tip" tackle was any kind of card.  I don't think there was any kind of intent there, in my eyes.  

Whether there is or is not intent is irrelevant, the law is categoric if the player is lifted beyond the horizontal and is allowed to land on his head and or shoulder, it is a red card offence, there is no mention of intent whatsoever it is the responsibility of the tackler to ensure the tackled player lands safely. So lucky escape (unless he gets cited) for Earls and Ireland.

Patchell for me he's strong and confident and good distributor IMO - downside is he's a Poopie goal kicker

When are these boys back?

1/2p
Scott W
Rhys Webb

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Anscombe for me but thankfully we play Scotland and France at home next and can win those by not being at our best so it will be 5 weeks until twickenham and hopefully Dan is better by then, cos we will need him fit

RubyGuby wrote:Patchell for me he's strong and confident and good distributor IMO - downside is he's a Poopie goal kicker

When are these boys back?

1/2p
Scott W
Rhys Webb

Webb should play some part against Edinburgh in two weeks time, Scott I think said he's looking at April and Leigh is next season

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Priestland was one of Wales best players along with Roberts and Evans, look at the rankings in the Eastern Fail! I suspect that he was not sure whether the charge down had been touched by a Wales player so kicked for touch (safe kick not shanked) it was a split second descision.

At the end of the day the difference between the sides was minimal, you could blame Tipric for being out of position for the Irish try, or even Biggar for missing a simple penalty when he was clearly injured and should have been off the pitch. The telling mistake was probably by Lloyd Williams when his box kick went straight up in the air placing all of Wales forwards off side for the winning penalty.

Biggar will be back if fit against Scotland but if not Priestland will deservedly keep his place, probably with Anscombe on the bench.

Seagultaf wrote:

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

He was a lot better than I could of ever hoped, I was more annoyed at the way that final penalty was given to Ireland at the end.  I'm not saying the draw wasn't a fair result to both teams, I'm just confused as to how it was an offence.  

I think Notch had issue with Wales holding on and not releasing, but Ireland were getting away with it as well, so at least the ref was consistent to both teams.

Seagultaf wrote:Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Theres no way that "tip" tackle was any kind of card.  I don't think there was any kind of intent there, in my eyes.  

Whether there is or is not intent is irrelevant, the law is categoric if the player is lifted beyond the horizontal and is allowed to land on his head and or shoulder, it is a red card offence, there is no mention of intent whatsoever it is the responsibility of the tackler to ensure the tackled player lands safely. So lucky escape (unless he gets cited) for Earls and Ireland.

Actually the guidence is - tipped above horizontal and not put down safely for penalty foul play, lands on front - no other sanction. Lands on back - yellow, lands on head / neck red.

The first one the tipped player landed on his front / hands so just a pen. the second one we didn't get a replay but it looked worse from the glimpse we got but clearly the 4th official saw nothing it it

Been a while since Wales last drew a game. I'd forgotten how bland and hollow it feels.

I suspect neither team, nor respective sets of fans, will feel great after that.

On paper a draw away in Dublin isn't a bad result, though it looks worse given how weakened Ireland were. Wales did well to drag themselves back into contention. From kick-off up to the Irish try though Wales were abysmal. Knocked off balance by the early Irish surges and didn't seem to have a clue what to do with themselves in the opposition half.

I think that's the worst display of box kicking I've ever seen in a rugby game. What the hell went wrong with Davies?? (and Lloyd Williams?) So many skewed kicks resulting in so much lost possession and so much Irish pressure. Unacceptable from professional scrum halves.

Credit to Priestland for stepping up this time. Possibly his best game for Wales since 2011. I'm not a fan but have to admit his intro brought stability. Roberts and Faletau were also in impressive form today.

TJ wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

He was a lot better than I could of ever hoped, I was more annoyed at the way that final penalty was given to Ireland at the end.  I'm not saying the draw wasn't a fair result to both teams, I'm just confused as to how it was an offence.  

I think Notch had issue with Wales holding on and not releasing, but Ireland were getting away with it as well, so at least the ref was consistent to both teams.

Seagultaf wrote:Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Theres no way that "tip" tackle was any kind of card.  I don't think there was any kind of intent there, in my eyes.  

Whether there is or is not intent is irrelevant, the law is categoric if the player is lifted beyond the horizontal and is allowed to land on his head and or shoulder, it is a red card offence, there is no mention of intent whatsoever it is the responsibility of the tackler to ensure the tackled player lands safely. So lucky escape (unless he gets cited) for Earls and Ireland.

Actually the guidence is - tipped above horizontal and not put down safely for penalty foul play, lands on front - no other sanction.  Lands on back - yellow, lands on head / neck red.

The first one the tipped player landed on his front / hands so just a pen.  the second one we didn't get a replay but it looked worse from the glimpse we got but clearly the 4th official saw nothing it it

Watch the slow motion replay which clearly showed that Liam Williams landed on this shoulders if he hadn't put his arm out it would have been his head! So by the letter of the law a red! We didn't get a replay of the second so I cant comment.

Seagultaf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Priestland was one of Wales best players along with Roberts and Evans, look at the rankings in the Eastern Fail! I suspect that he was not sure whether the charge down had been touched by a Wales player so kicked for touch (safe kick not shanked) it was a split second descision.

At the end of the day the difference between the sides was minimal, you could blame Tipric for being out of position for the Irish try, or even Biggar for missing a simple penalty when he was clearly injured and should have been off the pitch. The telling mistake was probably by Lloyd Williams when his box kick went straight up in the air placing all of Wales forwards off side for the winning penalty.

Biggar will be back if fit against Scotland but if not Priestland will deservedly keep his place, probably with Anscombe on the bench.

Seriously? This is what I highlighted in my last post. RP plays okay and suddenly he's one of Wales' best players. It's his bloody to job to kick the ball, if he actually manages to do it without messing it up you all think he's a MOTM contender. Even Bath fans don't rate him.

Some interesting discussions on here for that penalty. I didn't think it was a penalty either, especially seeing as, if I remember rightly, Ireland had knocked on and Garces was playing advantage to Wales; so if there was an offence somewhere then surely he should have went back for the scrum to Wales? Can anyone add some clarity?

I don't like the rule myself but by the letter of the law that was a card offence, I'm surprised he didn't have another closer look

Two reasons we lost that game. Lloyd's box kick (moronic) and the occasion when, after we had (finally) worked some space on the outside after about 10 phases of boshing, Scott bloody Baldwin drops a simple pass from Priestland killing any momentum from one of our most promising attacking moves. Get out of the backline hooker! Also, if I was Tom James I would be absolutely peed off with Liam Williams. He never passed him the bloody ball once! Took contact every time making no line breaks. Tom barely touched the ball to show if he could do anything

mikey_dragon wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Priestland was one of Wales best players along with Roberts and Evans, look at the rankings in the Eastern Fail! I suspect that he was not sure whether the charge down had been touched by a Wales player so kicked for touch (safe kick not shanked) it was a split second descision.

At the end of the day the difference between the sides was minimal, you could blame Tipric for being out of position for the Irish try, or even Biggar for missing a simple penalty when he was clearly injured and should have been off the pitch. The telling mistake was probably by Lloyd Williams when his box kick went straight up in the air placing all of Wales forwards off side for the winning penalty.

Biggar will be back if fit against Scotland but if not Priestland will deservedly keep his place, probably with Anscombe on the bench.

Seriously? This is what I highlighted in my last post. RP plays okay and suddenly he's one of Wales' best players. It's his bloody to job to kick the ball, if he actually manages to do it without messing it up you all think he's a MOTM contender. Even Bath fans don't rate him.

Some interesting discussions on here for that penalty. I didn't think it was a penalty either, especially seeing as, if I remember rightly, Ireland had knocked on and Garces was playing advantage to Wales; so if there was an offence somewhere then surely he should have went back for the scrum to Wales? Can anyone add some clarity?

Priestland played well, read Gatlands comments, yet still he is being blamed on this forum for the loss, watch the game guys!

You're right about Liam Williams not passing it really pixel me off. It was as if him and Gareth Davies had a bet on who could score and Liam butchered one on the right in the first half with the winger outside. I also wish our wingers would come inside more like North did on his debut v SA it's just too predictable

tatterd wrote:Two reasons we lost that game. Lloyd's box kick (moronic) and the occasion when, after we had (finally) worked some space on the outside after about 10 phases of boshing, Scott bloody Baldwin drops a simple pass from Priestland killing any momentum from one of our most promising attacking moves. Get out of the backline hooker! Also, if I was Tom James I would be absolutely peed off with Liam Williams. He never passed him the bloody ball once! Took contact every time making no line breaks. Tom barely touched the ball to show if he could do anything

Tom James was poor all he did when he had the ball was run into the nearest tackler, I agree Liam was not at his best but take into account that he has not been training with the starting side. I agree about Lloyds rubbish kick, it should never have been a box kick it should have gone to the corner, Davies was not good but Lloyd was very poor.

For me the three big mistakes which cost Wales the win were: Tipuric out of position for the Irish try, Lloyds rubbish kick, and the ref for not carding Earls for the tip tackle.

Seagultaf wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Priestland was one of Wales best players along with Roberts and Evans, look at the rankings in the Eastern Fail! I suspect that he was not sure whether the charge down had been touched by a Wales player so kicked for touch (safe kick not shanked) it was a split second descision.

At the end of the day the difference between the sides was minimal, you could blame Tipric for being out of position for the Irish try, or even Biggar for missing a simple penalty when he was clearly injured and should have been off the pitch. The telling mistake was probably by Lloyd Williams when his box kick went straight up in the air placing all of Wales forwards off side for the winning penalty.

Biggar will be back if fit against Scotland but if not Priestland will deservedly keep his place, probably with Anscombe on the bench.

Seriously? This is what I highlighted in my last post. RP plays okay and suddenly he's one of Wales' best players. It's his bloody to job to kick the ball, if he actually manages to do it without messing it up you all think he's a MOTM contender. Even Bath fans don't rate him.

Some interesting discussions on here for that penalty. I didn't think it was a penalty either, especially seeing as, if I remember rightly, Ireland had knocked on and Garces was playing advantage to Wales; so if there was an offence somewhere then surely he should have went back for the scrum to Wales? Can anyone add some clarity?

Priestland played well, read Gatlands comments, yet still he is being blamed on this forum for the loss, watch the game guys!

Well, when we do watch the game we don't watch it with Scarlet blinkers on. Gatland might have said it, but it doesn't exactly make it true now, does it? I alluded to this btw, people talking him up because he actually manages to keep his error count fairly low and the coaches are no different. We didn't lose so I'm not sure who is blaming him and for what loss? I've previously stated how I was wrong about him going to cost us the match, he didn't. He did miss two drop goals though, I bet the forwards were secretly fuming with that. He did his job and most of the time managed to not screw it up, he doesn't deserve endless praise for that.

Seagultaf wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Priestland was one of Wales best players along with Roberts and Evans, look at the rankings in the Eastern Fail! I suspect that he was not sure whether the charge down had been touched by a Wales player so kicked for touch (safe kick not shanked) it was a split second descision.

At the end of the day the difference between the sides was minimal, you could blame Tipric for being out of position for the Irish try, or even Biggar for missing a simple penalty when he was clearly injured and should have been off the pitch. The telling mistake was probably by Lloyd Williams when his box kick went straight up in the air placing all of Wales forwards off side for the winning penalty.

Biggar will be back if fit against Scotland but if not Priestland will deservedly keep his place, probably with Anscombe on the bench.

Seriously? This is what I highlighted in my last post. RP plays okay and suddenly he's one of Wales' best players. It's his bloody to job to kick the ball, if he actually manages to do it without messing it up you all think he's a MOTM contender. Even Bath fans don't rate him.

Some interesting discussions on here for that penalty. I didn't think it was a penalty either, especially seeing as, if I remember rightly, Ireland had knocked on and Garces was playing advantage to Wales; so if there was an offence somewhere then surely he should have went back for the scrum to Wales? Can anyone add some clarity?

Priestland played well, read Gatlands comments, yet still he is being blamed on this forum for the loss, watch the game guys!

Gatland also thinks rob howley does a good job as backs coach, doesn't mean I agree with him all the time......priestland shows no composure or intelligence and makes mistakes, you can't argue against that. Not to touch the ball down cost us seven points. You'd never see Dan Carter or Jonny sexton make those simple errors and that's why priestland isn't an international 10 no matter how revered he is down west wales. We saw it yesterday with Finn Russell who if he had shown composure would have given the ball to Hogg for a run in, instead got flustered and booted the ball out. Carter or sexton would have drawn the man and passed the ball.

On the earls tackle, it was clearly a yellow card as he didn't bring the man to ground safely

What a failure of a game , it was like watching two tramps fight over a can of White Lighting.

Thank God for Eddies England at least the general public will see what real rugby is.

Seagultaf wrote:

tatterd wrote:Two reasons we lost that game. Lloyd's box kick (moronic) and the occasion when, after we had (finally) worked some space on the outside after about 10 phases of boshing, Scott bloody Baldwin drops a simple pass from Priestland killing any momentum from one of our most promising attacking moves. Get out of the backline hooker! Also, if I was Tom James I would be absolutely peed off with Liam Williams. He never passed him the bloody ball once! Took contact every time making no line breaks. Tom barely touched the ball to show if he could do anything

Tom James was poor all he did when he had the ball was run into the nearest tackler, I agree Liam was not at his best but take into account that he has not been training with the starting side. I agree about Lloyds rubbish kick, it should never have been a box kick it should have gone to the corner, Davies was not good but Lloyd was very poor.

For me the three big mistakes which cost Wales the win were: Tipuric out of position for the Irish try, Lloyds rubbish kick, and the ref for not carding Earls for the tip tackle.

Does it not occur to you at all that tipuric wouldn't be in a position for the Irish try if priestland hadnt made the glaring error?? Anyway no one person is to blame for not winning its just stupid errors are completely avoidable by just using your brain and these errors unnecessarily put us under pressure. Although you are right with lloyds kick because it was atrocious and put Wales under pressure too