Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
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Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
According to Omnisport "British and Irish Lions chief executive John Feehan has identified former England head coach Stuart Lancaster as a potential candidate to lead the 2017 tour of New Zealand."
I think the view from most England fans would be a resounding no, as England's failure in RWC 2015 has forever tarnished his reputation. But with the difficulty in appointing a current serving international coach - contractual requirements (Schmidt), allegations of home country bias (Gatland), etc - is appointing an 'available' coach the way forward? Is Lancaster's reputation with other fans as negative as it is with English fans?
The juggernaut that is now the Lions means that 2017 will be a resounding financial success, but with New Zealand seemingly set to dominate the RWC, is this the best opportunity for the home nations to beat the All Blacks? Will the likes of Warburton, Sexton, Hogg, et al ever get a better chance to beat them?
I think the view from most England fans would be a resounding no, as England's failure in RWC 2015 has forever tarnished his reputation. But with the difficulty in appointing a current serving international coach - contractual requirements (Schmidt), allegations of home country bias (Gatland), etc - is appointing an 'available' coach the way forward? Is Lancaster's reputation with other fans as negative as it is with English fans?
The juggernaut that is now the Lions means that 2017 will be a resounding financial success, but with New Zealand seemingly set to dominate the RWC, is this the best opportunity for the home nations to beat the All Blacks? Will the likes of Warburton, Sexton, Hogg, et al ever get a better chance to beat them?
nlpnlp- Posts : 509
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
I think those outside England would say a resounding 'yes' to this news! Wales, so we don't lose Gats for a year. Ireland and Scotland, as they don't want 'cement head' hurting their feelings again. If he coaches then some of them won't watch it. Which would be a shame.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.
The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.
I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?
The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.
I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Yep, let's get it done. He gets my vote.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.
Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.
Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
Apart from Gatland, who said it would be very hard to turn down.
Guest- Guest
Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Griff wrote:fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.
Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
Apart from Gatland, who said it would be very hard to turn down.
Its a tricky one. He has to give up a year with Wales and we know the problems it caused before but here's the issue.... Lions tours to AUS don't come close to Lions tours elsewhere.
The likely scenario is that the lions will lose 0-3. That's not to say they can't have a fair crack at it but the last time they lost a single test match at home was in 2009... 6.5 years ago. Let alone the challenge of getting 40 near strangers together fighting for positions to gel without impacting morale. Its a challenge yes but its a challenge he'll know deep in his heart that he'll lose.
Its not defeatist to say so. NZ are world champions and even losing McCaw & Carter is not likely to dent their success that much. If the home nations teams can barely keep up at home what chances do they in 18 months time away from home, in a NZ winter after a long season facing fresh players... who happen to be the worlds best?
You can say, ah but that's not a winning attitude and top level players won't think like that. Maybe not but the truth is its like putting Adam Gemili in a footrace with Usain Bolt.. will he compete, sure... will he lose 10 out of 10 races, sure... will Usain look good for all 10 of those races, sure.
Then ask yourself what can go wrong? Can you keep morale high when you're being smashed up? How will it impact his job with Wales and his relationship with his players?
Victory is the only thing that can mitigate such morale issues and given that is highly unlikely its no doubt keeping players from in-fighting will be exceptionally difficult.
We will see England in AUS, Ireland in SA and Wales in NZ this summer. Out of those 9 test matches if we see 3 victories by the home nations I think there is hope and someone like Gatland may take it up. If its 0-9 only the insane, the unemployed, those who have never coached at that level or McGeechan will take it up.
The only issue for Gatland is whether he can see it landing him the ABs job... as that's the one he will want. Can he enhance his career to one day coach NZ themselves? If so, I think he will take it, if not I think he will respectfully decline.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
fa0019 wrote:Griff wrote:fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.
Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
Apart from Gatland, who said it would be very hard to turn down.
Its a tricky one. He has to give up a year with Wales and we know the problems it caused before but here's the issue.... Lions tours to AUS don't come close to Lions tours elsewhere.
The likely scenario is that the lions will lose 0-3. That's not to say they can't have a fair crack at it but the last time they lost a single test match at home was in 2009... 6.5 years ago. Let alone the challenge of getting 40 near strangers together fighting for positions to gel without impacting morale. Its a challenge yes but its a challenge he'll know deep in his heart that he'll lose.
Its not defeatist to say so. NZ are world champions and even losing McCaw & Carter is not likely to dent their success that much. If the home nations teams can barely keep up at home what chances do they in 18 months time away from home, in a NZ winter after a long season facing fresh players... who happen to be the worlds best?
You can say, ah but that's not a winning attitude and top level players won't think like that. Maybe not but the truth is its like putting Adam Gemili in a footrace with Usain Bolt.. will he compete, sure... will he lose 10 out of 10 races, sure... will Usain look good for all 10 of those races, sure.
Then ask yourself what can go wrong? Can you keep morale high when you're being smashed up? How will it impact his job with Wales and his relationship with his players?
Victory is the only thing that can mitigate such morale issues and given that is highly unlikely its no doubt keeping players from in-fighting will be exceptionally difficult.
We will see England in AUS, Ireland in SA and Wales in NZ this summer. Out of those 9 test matches if we see 3 victories by the home nations I think there is hope and someone like Gatland may take it up. If its 0-9 only the insane, the unemployed, those who have never coached at that level or McGeechan will take it up.
The only issue for Gatland is whether he can see it landing him the ABs job... as that's the one he will want. Can he enhance his career to one day coach NZ themselves? If so, I think he will take it, if not I think he will respectfully decline.
Fa, I was only addressing your point that 'frontline coaches are running away from it', which Gatland is not! He's said previously he'd love to do it. He said it's the ultimate challenge (Lions tour to NZ). The WRU have given their blessing so he's obviously chatted about it with them. I'd say he's putting his hand up and volunteering rather than running away.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Agree with your other points though - a very high % chance of failure and therefore more chance of coming home with reputation in tatters than enhanced.
Plus it's a thankless task. No matter what team you pick - 15 out of 38 or whatever number they take will mean players left out and accusations of bias, hatred, racism (?!), politics, you name it. I reckon they should do away with coaches and let the players run the show. THAT would be entertainment!
Plus it's a thankless task. No matter what team you pick - 15 out of 38 or whatever number they take will mean players left out and accusations of bias, hatred, racism (?!), politics, you name it. I reckon they should do away with coaches and let the players run the show. THAT would be entertainment!
Last edited by Griff on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
probably is the ultimate challenge... only ever been 3 series winning coaches in NZ. Last one was 22 years ago.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzOHq5WbQ8k
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
lostinwales wrote:It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.
The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.
I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?
Just
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Notch- Moderator
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
lostinwales wrote:
I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?
Nick Mallet
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Gwlad wrote:lostinwales wrote:It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.
The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.
I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?
Just
Got anything positive to say? A well reasoned argument for someone else maybe? Even a name might do...
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Lancaster would be perfect.
He would be treated as a lightweight by the NZ press and they might just convince the team to be a bit complacent.
He would pick mostly English which would be great as Eddie Jones would be severely hampered and the English media would think they had loads of world class players.
Robshaw would get the Lions monkey off his back.
After the inevitable NZ whitewash everybody would blame him again and Stu is the best equipped for that.
Lancaster would be the inspired choice and potentially hasten the demise of the anachronistic Lions... purrrrfect.
He would be treated as a lightweight by the NZ press and they might just convince the team to be a bit complacent.
He would pick mostly English which would be great as Eddie Jones would be severely hampered and the English media would think they had loads of world class players.
Robshaw would get the Lions monkey off his back.
After the inevitable NZ whitewash everybody would blame him again and Stu is the best equipped for that.
Lancaster would be the inspired choice and potentially hasten the demise of the anachronistic Lions... purrrrfect.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Lancaster has a better win to loss ratio than GATS has for wales.
wrfc1980- Posts : 440
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
wrfc1980 wrote:Lancaster has a better win to loss ratio than GATS has for wales.
But when it comes to must win games Lancaster failed every time.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
I would prefer Gatland as to me, he is the most cunning coach out there and get the Lion's performing.
I would not be unhappy with Lancaster either. I have always thought he is a very good coach, all went pear shaped in the RWC but I don't pin all the blame on him, I think there were a lot of external influences active in that team set up.
If it's not Gatland, then its Lancaster for me but Cotter may also get looked at...
I would not be unhappy with Lancaster either. I have always thought he is a very good coach, all went pear shaped in the RWC but I don't pin all the blame on him, I think there were a lot of external influences active in that team set up.
If it's not Gatland, then its Lancaster for me but Cotter may also get looked at...
eirebilly- Posts : 24807
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
I fail to see if the tour is held in may/june then why a coach has to have a year sabbatical to prepare for it. Apart from watching games what does the coach actually do all year round. If Sam Warburton is captain (for example) should he take a year off to prepare himself for it!!!it's needless and will just disrupt a nation
Last edited by True Raven on Sat 30 Jan 2016, 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mis spelt word)
True Raven- Posts : 1011
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Ooh goody, I can wait to see
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Ooh goody, I can wait to see Barritt and Burgess for the lions
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
I cannot understand this. Lancaster was ditch by England after the World Cup. with the saying that he failed to take England forward and to (win the rugby world cup on home soil.) Now it is being said that he might be in charge of the BRITISH AND IRISH LIONS.
So he failed with ENGLAND ALONE. Now he is given a chance with players from different countrys all in one team. Seems like a very early aprill fools joke.
Simply do not think it will happen.
So he failed with ENGLAND ALONE. Now he is given a chance with players from different countrys all in one team. Seems like a very early aprill fools joke.
Simply do not think it will happen.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
eirebilly wrote:I would prefer Gatland as to me, he is the most cunning coach out there and get the Lion's performing.
I would not be unhappy with Lancaster either. I have always thought he is a very good coach, all went pear shaped in the RWC but I don't pin all the blame on him, I think there were a lot of external influences active in that team set up.
If it's not Gatland, then its Lancaster for me but Cotter may also get looked at...
Cotter is a good selection.
I would have liked to have seen Cotter, Schmidt and Gatland involved. I think all three would bring some excellent experience to the team.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Lions is going to be O'Shea. You heard it here first
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
[quote="wrfc1980"]Lancaster has a better win to loss ratio than GATS has for wales.[/quote
which goes to prove he is even worse as a choice for a tour
He had four 6 nations and a RWC to win something, anything! He won lots of games, more by ration than Gats, and one solitary triple crown and you think he'd be a better choice than Gats who has four 6 Nations championship wins and a Lions win. Sur makes sense to me
which goes to prove he is even worse as a choice for a tour
He had four 6 nations and a RWC to win something, anything! He won lots of games, more by ration than Gats, and one solitary triple crown and you think he'd be a better choice than Gats who has four 6 Nations championship wins and a Lions win. Sur makes sense to me
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Gatland has 4 6Ns championships?
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31381
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
No 7&1/2 wrote:Gatland has 4 6Ns championships?
This year is in the bag.
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
No 7&1/2 wrote:Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.
I am….and please specify the previous 2 wins Gats has in the 6 Nations?
Yours Arrogantly
Gwlad
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
And Gats has that amazing record vs SH teams.
Truth is I don't really mind. I just think that Lancaster isn't a bad shout and at least choosing him isn't going to mess up a team for a year while they find someone to step in in their coach's absence.
Truth is I don't really mind. I just think that Lancaster isn't a bad shout and at least choosing him isn't going to mess up a team for a year while they find someone to step in in their coach's absence.
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
lostinwales wrote:And Gats has that amazing record vs SH teams.
Truth is I don't really mind. I just think that Lancaster isn't a bad shout and at least choosing him isn't going to mess up a team for a year while they find someone to step in in their coach's absence.
Like winning a Lions tour…you mean that amazing record?
Cos only a fool would refer to the Welsh record down under, knowing that we are debating the best of all the nations going on tour, not Wales, and that they would be lead by the same man who just successfully won a tour down under.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Gwlad wrote:No 7&1/2 wrote:Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.
I am….and please specify the previous 2 wins Gats has in the 6 Nations?
Yours Arrogantly
Gwlad
I thought you were Welsh do you not know!? So from 4 down to 2. Its good anyway so no need to embelish.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Not slagging off Gats, but winning vs Deans' era Australia is not very similar to winning against Hansen's All Blacks
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Gatland has coached Wales to 6Ns titles (and Grand slams) in 2008 & 2012.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
No 7&1/2 wrote:Gwlad wrote:No 7&1/2 wrote:Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.
I am….and please specify the previous 2 wins Gats has in the 6 Nations?
Yours Arrogantly
Gwlad
I thought you were Welsh do you not know!? So from 4 down to 2. Its good anyway so no need to embelish.
Including this year it's 4
I was being arrogant….you just can't count
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
If Gatland has coached Wales to 3 titles - name the years please.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
LondonTiger wrote:Gatland has coached Wales to 6Ns titles (and Grand slams) in 2008 & 2012.
I can assure you that Gats had every input into 2013. He is head Coach of Wales, has been since 2007, he may have been busy planning you a winning Lions tour but his hands were firmly on the Welsh reins in mind if not body.
But lets not derail the thread 7.5, i know you hate that, lets discuss why Lancaster- possibly the least successful England coach of all time but with a better win ratio than the most successful coach of the 6 Nations teams in post with a winning tour under his belt - should be a better choice than Gats in 2017…..
I can't wait to hear this.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Agree. I would put Geech in charge and take a club coach from each of the Home Nations.fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.
Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Geech is out of touch.
I'd say O'Shea and Baxter should be involved
I'd say O'Shea and Baxter should be involved
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
Lancaster makes sense. Donald Trump could do Alistair Campbell's spin job with Palin as physio. Sir Clive could come along as the elite performance director since he made such a fist of it in 2005.
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
So just the 2 years then. O'Shea could be a great call.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
That would work for me.ChequeredJersey wrote:Geech is out of touch.
I'd say O'Shea and Baxter should be involved
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
If he hasn't left to go to Italy, which is the other likely option, the Lions would be an explanation of where he is leaving us for
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
lostinwales wrote:Gwlad wrote:lostinwales wrote:It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.
The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with thepressurewinning tournaments) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ i.e. defeat is ok if we try) and are fixable.
I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's once when they were sick?
Just
Got anything positive to say? A well reasoned argument for someone else maybe? Even a name might do...
Fixed for you
reasoned argument? try using one yourself; you'd be a better candidate as Lions coach than the guy who just derailed English rugby in its own RWC…is that reason enough for you or is how many games he won a better place to start judging his performance.
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
You can't have an an Englishman as a B&I Lions coach.
You just can't.
The kids will just sulk and cry.
You just can't.
The kids will just sulk and cry.
gregortree- Posts : 3676
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
gregortree wrote:You can't have an an Englishman as a B&I Lions coach.
You just can't.
The kids will just sulk and cry.
Yes you can, the caveat being he can't be inept as an international rugby coach.
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
bedfordwelsh wrote:I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.
A win over the all blacks? Yeah I know..
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Re: Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach
lostinwales wrote:bedfordwelsh wrote:I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.
A win over the all blacks? Yeah I know..
And not being very good at his job.
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