Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach

First topic message reminder :

According to Omnisport "British and Irish Lions chief executive John Feehan has identified former England head coach Stuart Lancaster as a potential candidate to lead the 2017 tour of New Zealand."

I think the view from most England fans would be a resounding no, as England's failure in RWC 2015 has forever tarnished his reputation.  But with the difficulty in appointing a current serving international coach - contractual requirements (Schmidt), allegations of home country bias (Gatland), etc - is appointing an 'available' coach the way forward?  Is Lancaster's reputation with other fans as negative as it is with English fans?

The juggernaut that is now the Lions means that 2017 will be a resounding financial success, but with New Zealand seemingly set to dominate the RWC, is this the best opportunity for the home nations to beat the All Blacks?  Will the likes of Warburton, Sexton, Hogg, et al ever get a better chance to beat them?

2 things. A win over NZ AND he wins more games on average than GATS.

wrfc1980 wrote:2 things. A win over NZ AND he wins more games on average than GATS.

If you punch someone in the head more during a fight but you get knocked out, it doesn't make you a winner.

Lancaster was the worst thing that has happened to English rugby since Andy Robinson, or Jonno as coach take your pick.

NZ was an outlier, against a sick team stricken with norovirus to the extent Hansen thought he couldn't field a side.

Some plaudits.

Gwlad wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:2 things. A win over NZ AND he wins more games on average than GATS.

If you punch someone in the head more during a fight but you get knocked out, it doesn't make you a winner.

Lancaster was the worst thing that has happened to English rugby since Andy Robinson, or Jonno as coach take your pick.

NZ was an outlier, against a sick team stricken with norovirus to the extent Hansen thought he couldn't field a side.

Some plaudits.

Sick NZ team or not, at least Englanbd did win against them (NZ) that is.


Which is more than "WALES" have done. right?

The lions need a world class coach someone who has won a series, won competitions and who has a proven track record that has the coaching respect of the World.

One name not mentioned as yet but who is also not under a contract and has all the right qualification is Graham Henry.

maestegmafia wrote:The lions need a world class coach someone who has won a series, won competitions and who has a proven track record that has the coaching respect of the World.

One name not mentioned as yet but who is also not under a contract and has all the right qualification is Graham Henry.

Mallett might be an interesting option (good call on that earlier).

It may well be that Henry learned a lot from the last Lions tour he ran and hes certainly achieved a fair amount since (!) but the only reason his tour isn't derided as much as it could have been is because of Woodward's tour after.

Gwlad. Lancaster wins more games of rugby that Gatland. Fact.

And for all that he can't win trophies or get his home team out of their group. Gatland has done both of the above. Twice. Fact.

wrfc1980 wrote:Gwlad. Lancaster wins more games of rugby that Gatland. Fact.

lets see the numbers then...

Gats has been coach since 2007….so you are saying that between 2007 to 2015 Lancaster, who started with England in 2012, and finished after RWC last year, won more games.

Knowsit17 wrote:And for all that he can't win trophies or get his home team out of their group. Gatland has done both of the above. Twice. Fact.

thats irrelevant obviously Knowsit come one. He won more games but fewer competitions (well, none actually) and he beat NZ while their entire squad had norovirus.

Even the manner of that victory indicated just how ill the ABs were, but hey i guess if that's all you have to show after 4 6 Nations and a RWC then thats what you have to get pumped about. That is, a win v a hobbled NZ in your first year and then a downward spiral to complete oblivion at your own RWC.

Its shameful. He's clearly a good choice for the lions.

wrfc1980 wrote:Gwlad. Lancaster wins more games of rugby that Gatland. Fact.

He doesn't win games that matter, Six nations lost it four times in a row, RWC pool qualifier...!

Can't see him having the skills to win any series against the all blacks

maestegmafia wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:Gwlad. Lancaster wins more games of rugby that Gatland. Fact.

He doesn't win games that matter, Six nations lost it four times in a row, RWC pool qualifier...!

Can't see him having the skills to win any series against the all blacks

Come on maesteg, you are missing the point. Only Lancaster knows how to beat the ABs. You have to wait until they have a squad stricken down with flu and hide their kleenex

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:Gwlad. Lancaster wins more games of rugby that Gatland. Fact.

He doesn't win games that matter, Six nations lost it four times in a row, RWC pool qualifier...!

Can't see him having the skills to win any series against the all blacks

Come on maesteg, you are missing the point. Only Lancaster knows how to beat the ABs. You have to wait until they have a squad stricken down with flu and hide their kleenex

I would rather Martin Johnson or Clive Woodward to Lancaster mate. They both know a lot more than Lamcaster about winning against the All Blacks.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:Gwlad. Lancaster wins more games of rugby that Gatland. Fact.

He doesn't win games that matter, Six nations lost it four times in a row, RWC pool qualifier...!

Can't see him having the skills to win any series against the all blacks

Come on maesteg, you are missing the point. Only Lancaster knows how to beat the ABs. You have to wait until they have a squad stricken down with flu and hide their kleenex

I would rather Martin Johnson or Clive Woodward to Lancaster mate. They both know a lot more than Lamcaster about winning against the All Blacks.

In hindsight both were more successful than Lancaster, which is somewhat ironic given he replaced one of them. Woodward's record goes without saying and Johnson won a 6N title + a tour to Aus. And, of course, England at least made the quarters under him.

Though as Woodward showed in 2005, prior success isn't necessarily the key ingredient with the Lions. Even if Wales scored a shock series win next summer, Gatland repeating the feat with the Lions the following summer would never be a guarantee.

It can't be SCW for obvious reasons but personally i would love to see Jonno on a team of coaches; he is respected down there and has produced the results on the pitch. He wasn't a great Head Coach but did better than the last one who is now mooted as a potential lions coach.

A dream team of Gats, Schmidt, Edwards and Jonno would be outstanding

WRFC; Fair enough if you dislike Gatland, but pause for a moment and ask yourself have you/will you ever achieve what that man has? I sincerely doubt it. You might not agree with this, but the guy is a living legend and deserves some respect for his accolades .

Gwlad wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.

A win over the all blacks? Yeah I know..

And not being very good at his job.

Certainly better at beating the All Blacks than Gatland.

You would of thought that Wales under gatland would of learnt how the beat the All Blacks. Seeing that Gatland is a new Zealander.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.

A win over the all blacks? Yeah I know..

And not being very good at his job.

Certainly better at beating the All Blacks than Gatland.

You would of thought that Wales under gatland would of learnt how the beat the All Blacks. Seeing that Gatland is a new Zealander.

So was Graham Henry and Steve Hansen.

In fact the closest coach to get a win with Wales over the All Blacks was Mike Ruddock.

Gwlad wrote:It can't be SCW for obvious reasons but personally i would love to see Jonno on a team of coaches; he is respected down there and has produced the results on the pitch. He wasn't a great Head Coach but did better than the last one who is now mooted as a potential lions coach.

A dream team of Gats, Schmidt, Edwards and Jonno would be outstanding

Johnson should be a world class coach, though he should have coached at Leicester for a few years and gradually worked his way in to the England role. He was rushed in by the RFU, it was a shame, as you say he always will be one of the games most respected players.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:It can't be SCW for obvious reasons but personally i would love to see Jonno on a team of coaches; he is respected down there and has produced the results on the pitch. He wasn't a great Head Coach but did better than the last one who is now mooted as a potential lions coach.

A dream team of Gats, Schmidt, Edwards and Jonno would be outstanding

Johnson should be a world class coach, though he should have coached at Leicester for a few years and gradually worked his way in to the England role. He was rushed in by the RFU, it was a shame, as you say he always will be one of the games most respected players.

Agree 100%. Great comment.

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:It can't be SCW for obvious reasons but personally i would love to see Jonno on a team of coaches; he is respected down there and has produced the results on the pitch. He wasn't a great Head Coach but did better than the last one who is now mooted as a potential lions coach.

A dream team of Gats, Schmidt, Edwards and Jonno would be outstanding

Johnson should be a world class coach, though he should have coached at Leicester for a few years and gradually worked his way in to the England role. He was rushed in by the RFU, it was a shame, as you say he always will be one of the games most respected players.

Agree 100%.  Great comment.  

what does Jonno do these days?

I am sure we will see him on the Lions team

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:It can't be SCW for obvious reasons but personally i would love to see Jonno on a team of coaches; he is respected down there and has produced the results on the pitch. He wasn't a great Head Coach but did better than the last one who is now mooted as a potential lions coach.

A dream team of Gats, Schmidt, Edwards and Jonno would be outstanding

Johnson should be a world class coach, though he should have coached at Leicester for a few years and gradually worked his way in to the England role. He was rushed in by the RFU, it was a shame, as you say he always will be one of the games most respected players.

Agree 100%.  Great comment.  

Me too, and I managed to say so at the time of his England appointment as well. He should have served an apprenticeship with Leicester and built up his coaching credentials. Because of who he is he'll have managed to command respect, but it won't have slipped the players minds that this guy has never achieved anything as a coach. I've heard him speak several times and both occassions he stressed that rugby was a very simple game. Actually I don't think it is, and his lack of appreciation over the nuances of defensive and attacking coaching at the highest level cost him. He could have been one of the great forwards coaches.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Lions is going to be O'Shea. You heard it here first

...you may very well have a point there....And he'd be an excellent choice imo.

Cowshot wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Lions is going to be O'Shea. You heard it here first

...you may very well have a point there....And he'd be an excellent choice imo.

Can't disagree with that one. Works for me.
Makes his retirement from Quins very timely and now suspicious..........

If there was any hope of getting him to coach a series against NZ then the Lions should be in touch with Wayne Smith!

He has talked about not wanting a head coach role with a top tier side but might be swayed by a 1 season appointment. The part of coaching he seems to love is forging a game plan that best suits a certain group of players, the Lions are a perfect role for this as in many ways he would be starting from scratch and would have control over how they play and who plays.

If we could have Smith in the head coach role and running the attack then the rest of the coaching team could be picked from amongst the home nations coaches as there are many good defense and forwards coaches around.