Ospreys vs Edinburgh Rugby: Pro12 19th Feb

Form:
Ospreys
14/2/16 Munster 17 - 21 Ospreys
31/1/16 Ospreys 20 - 20 Glasgow
24/1/16 Chiefs 33 - 17 Ospreys

Edinburgh

12/2/16 Scarlets 22 - 21 Edinburgh
30/1/16 Blues 10 - 3 Edinburgh
23/1/16 Grenoble 34 - 23 Edinburgh


Teams:
Ospreys
Dan Evans; Jeff Hassler, JJ Engelbrecht, Owen Watkin, Ben John; Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard (Capt); Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, James King, Rory Thornton, Dan Lydiate, Sam Underhill, Dan Baker

Replacements: Scott Otten, Gareth Thomas, Aaron Jarvis, Rynier Bernardo, Olly Cracknell, Tom Habberfield, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker

Edinburgh
Greig Tonks; Dougie Fife, Michael Allen, Sam Beard, Tom Brown; Phil Burleigh, Sean Kennedy; Allan Dell, Neil Cochrane )capt), John Andress, Anton Bresler, Ben Toolis, Jamie Ritchie, Hamish Watson, Cornell Du Preez

Replacements: George Turner, Grant Sheills, Simon Berghan, Grant Gilchrist, Magnus Bradbury, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Chris Dean, Blair Kinghorn

Good job Spoons.

Is it fair to say that if we lose this our Top 6 aspirations are likely to be over?

Friday night's result was gutting but has shown that we should be confident for this game.

We've lost three on the bounce. We need to rectify that here.

I really liked Beard/Allan together at centre for the Scarlets game. They should play again. I also thought Turner was outstanding off the bench. I'd start him. I'd probably bench Tonks for Kinghorn, otherwise keep everything else the same.

I suspect we'll get McInally and Hidalgo-Clyne back - both need gametime. Hidalgo-Clyne will certainly help our goal kicking.

We're down to one hooker with Cochrane likely to have a head knock so we'd need McInally.

Something like

Sutherland
McInally
Andress (he ain't starting Berghan any time soon)
Bresler
Toolis
Coman
Watson
Du Preez

Hidalgo-Clyne
Burleigh
Brown
Beard
Allan
Hoyland
Tonks (although I'd start Kinghorn)

Subs - Dell, Turner, Berghan, Toolis, Ritchie, Fowles, Dean, Fife

I'm not sure that it will see the end of our top 6 aspirations, but I think we could drop down to 7th if we lose and results go against us this weekend, so clearly not going to do our top 6 hopes any good.

If we drop out the top 6 I think we would really struggle to get back in again.

The only changes I would make are the same as FES with Turner & Kinghorn to start.  I’d also start berghan ahead of Andress.  

Was just about to post that I'm not sure if we're getting any Scotland players back and would therefore start Mcinally and SHC if we do, as Rambo needs time at hooker and SHC has played very little for the last few weeks. But RDW got there before me, so...I agree with RDW

I thought Tom Brown was electric on Friday - I doubt he'll get a Scotland callup but it would be justified if he did!

If Edinburgh want to finish top 6, this is a must win. A potentially weakened Osprey's team (more so than Edinburgh) that are a direct competitor for 6th. After losing to Cardiff and Scarlets this has turned it for me. They must stop the rot and get a bit more clear of 7th. They should be looking for 4th anyway as the final is being hosted in their own stadium. In knockout games, anything can happen.

Andress should be dropped in favour in Berghan but we know that won't happen. Don't know what that business of putting on 3 2nd rows in the Scarlets game. Du Preez might need a break though I would wait til next week. Put him to blindside and Bradbury into 8. Coman can have a break this week. Kinghorn into 15 or 10? I would like him at 10 to have Burleigh at 12. Give Edinburgh 3 creators in their backline (Kinghorn, Burleigh, Tonks).

Ultimately your right RDW. Solomon is too conservative to change his preferred line-up when someone is not broken.

Very very short turnaround for the O's, Edinburgh should be able to take advantage of it.

There's a few break weeks just now so I don't think anyone needs rested.

I'll stick up for Andress again - he might have been at fault in some instances, but there were times when he collapsed because the pitch literally gave way beneath his feet! Great reffing.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good job Spoons.

Is it fair to say that if we lose this our Top 6 aspirations are likely to be over?

Friday night's result was gutting but has shown that we should be confident for this game.

Things could well work out in your favour anyway, as if you can stay ahead of Glasgow you will still get top tier euro, even if you slip from the top six (much like us Scarlets fans are hoping we can stay ahead of the Ospreys just in case we slip out the top 6 too).

VinceWLB wrote:Very very short turnaround for the O's, Edinburgh should be able to take advantage of it.

Ospreys must be looking to get a few of their welsh contingent back. Jarvis, and King for sure, and I would say Lydiate is likely too.

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's a few break weeks just now so I don't think anyone needs rested.

I'll stick up for Andress again - he might have been at fault in some instances, but there were times when he collapsed because the pitch literally gave way beneath his feet! Great reffing.

I just think from what I have seen Berghan is a better player. But the chances of him starting are about as high as me starting, so Andress again.

Berghan looked good when he came on I thought, caused some real damage to the Scarlet's scrum. Cotter should be having a word with Solly about that, we need all our SQ props playing as much as possible, especially when you see Nel being left on for 80 mins to spare Fagerson at the weekend.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good job Spoons.

Is it fair to say that if we lose this our Top 6 aspirations are likely to be over?

Friday night's result was gutting but has shown that we should be confident for this game.

Things could well work out in your favour anyway, as if you can stay ahead of Glasgow you will still get top tier euro, even if you slip from the top six (much like us Scarlets fans are hoping we can stay ahead of the Ospreys just in case we slip out the top 6 too).

That is a very good point - it is the old joke about being chased by a Lion; you don't need to outrun the lion, you just need to outrun the slowest person!

MacKnocked-on wrote:Berghan looked good when he came on I thought, caused some real damage to the Scarlet's scrum. Cotter should be having a word with Solly about that, we need all our SQ props playing as much as possible, especially when you see Nel being left on for 80 mins to spare Fagerson at the weekend.  

Andress is off at the end of the season, so that conversation will be had for him when his choices are down to 2.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good job Spoons.

Is it fair to say that if we lose this our Top 6 aspirations are likely to be over?

Friday night's result was gutting but has shown that we should be confident for this game.

Things could well work out in your favour anyway, as if you can stay ahead of Glasgow you will still get top tier euro, even if you slip from the top six (much like us Scarlets fans are hoping we can stay ahead of the Ospreys just in case we slip out the top 6 too).

That is a very good point - it is the old joke about being chased by a Lion; you don't need to outrun the lion, you  just need to outrun the slowest person!

That's why I always make sure I hang around with a fat bloke, just in case.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Very very short turnaround for the O's, Edinburgh should be able to take advantage of it.

Ospreys must be looking to get a few of their welsh contingent back.  Jarvis, and King for sure, and I would say Lydiate is likely too.

I think most O's fans will tell you Jarvis wont really strengthen the team but he is very likely to get involved given Dmitri Arhip came of injured. Jarvis propping against that Edinburgh scrum should be fun

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's a few break weeks just now so I don't think anyone needs rested.

I'll stick up for Andress again - he might have been at fault in some instances, but there were times when he collapsed because the pitch literally gave way beneath his feet! Great reffing.

I just think from what I have seen Berghan is a better player.  But the chances of him starting are about as high as me starting, so Andress again.

Berghan has definitely looked promising and has been at the club a few years now - time to find out if he's the real deal.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good job Spoons.

Is it fair to say that if we lose this our Top 6 aspirations are likely to be over?

Friday night's result was gutting but has shown that we should be confident for this game.

Things could well work out in your favour anyway, as if you can stay ahead of Glasgow you will still get top tier euro, even if you slip from the top six (much like us Scarlets fans are hoping we can stay ahead of the Ospreys just in case we slip out the top 6 too).

That is a very good point - it is the old joke about being chased by a Lion; you don't need to outrun the lion, you  just need to outrun the slowest person!

That's why I always make sure I hang around with a fat bloke, just in case.

Are there lots of Lions running loose in Wales??

RDW_Scotland wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good job Spoons.

Is it fair to say that if we lose this our Top 6 aspirations are likely to be over?

Friday night's result was gutting but has shown that we should be confident for this game.

Things could well work out in your favour anyway, as if you can stay ahead of Glasgow you will still get top tier euro, even if you slip from the top six (much like us Scarlets fans are hoping we can stay ahead of the Ospreys just in case we slip out the top 6 too).

That is a very good point - it is the old joke about being chased by a Lion; you don't need to outrun the lion, you  just need to outrun the slowest person!

That's why I always make sure I hang around with a fat bloke, just in case.

Are there lots of Lions running loose in Wales??

How many Welsh players were in Gatland's B&I Lions squad? I suspect there are quite a few.

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's a few break weeks just now so I don't think anyone needs rested.

I'll stick up for Andress again - he might have been at fault in some instances, but there were times when he collapsed because the pitch literally gave way beneath his feet! Great reffing.

I don't think Andress is bad. He is a non-SQ prop who is thoroughly average and a good 3rd choice/average 2nd choice prop. He will not win a game and he should not lose you a game against anything less than a dominant pack. There is little upside to playing him more than 50 minutes.

The guy behind him is young (25), big (1.93m, 126kg), SQ, is available next year and played well in small doses. He needs game time. Give him the first half and if he is crap take him off at half. Alternatively give him the 2nd half against a tiring front row and then the replacement props. How can you build trust and develop a player if he is not seeing meaningful game time when it matters?

I'd go with Berghan as well. Not convinced he's any better, but he is SQ and has the potential to the better, whereas Andress is NSQ and leaving at the end of the year.

I don't think Berghan is any better either BUT if he had been given all the game time Andress has had he would certainly be better than the Irishman.

VinceWLB wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Very very short turnaround for the O's, Edinburgh should be able to take advantage of it.

Ospreys must be looking to get a few of their welsh contingent back.  Jarvis, and King for sure, and I would say Lydiate is likely too.

I think most O's fans will tell you Jarvis wont really strengthen the team but he is very likely to get involved given Dmitri Arhip came of injured. Jarvis propping against that Edinburgh scrum should be fun

Yes Vince you're right, I'm just hoping Gatland doesn't tell us to play Jarvis, with Francis HAVING to go back to Exeter, I'm hoping he'll keep Jarvis with TW . Fia IMO looked very good yesterday, he stopped Kilcoyne's antics very well, who as somebody put in above should have been penalised in that scrum that injured Arhip. I think we'll have King back, so he should go to 6 instead of Bearman, even though Joe had a very good game IMO, and Rees said last week Hassler should be available, although probably start on the bench.
This is a must win game for both teams, we are building nicely and I'm hoping for a nice win.

wayne wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Very very short turnaround for the O's, Edinburgh should be able to take advantage of it.

Ospreys must be looking to get a few of their welsh contingent back.  Jarvis, and King for sure, and I would say Lydiate is likely too.

I think most O's fans will tell you Jarvis wont really strengthen the team but he is very likely to get involved given Dmitri Arhip came of injured. Jarvis propping against that Edinburgh scrum should be fun

Yes Vince you're right, I'm just hoping Gatland doesn't tell us to play Jarvis, with Francis HAVING to go back to Exeter, I'm hoping he'll keep Jarvis with TW . Fia IMO looked very good yesterday, he stopped Kilcoyne's antics very well, who as somebody put in above should have been penalised in that scrum that injured Arhip. I think we'll have King back, so he should go to 6 instead of Bearman, even though Joe had a very good game IMO, and Rees said last week Hassler should be available, although probably start on the bench.
This is a must win game for both teams, we are building nicely and I'm hoping for a nice win.

Wayne, I have a feeling Gats is less worried about injury to Francis now that Rhodri is fit to get called up, so he may think Jarvis being back with you is less risky than you think

It should be an interesting game. There are lots of things riding on it, for both the sides (euro/playoff spots), and the individuals involved (push to get in match 23 for 6Ns etc)

Having watched the blues cut up Edinburgh's defence a couple of weeks ago and watching Sam play yesterday, I'm confident he can run the show against Edinburgh like he did in Cork yesterday.

We haven't lost to Edinburgh at home since April 09 and I'm confident that if the team play like they did in Cork then we should have too much for Edinburgh at home

True Raven wrote:Having watched the blues cut up Edinburgh's defence a couple of weeks ago and watching Sam play yesterday, I'm confident he can run the show against Edinburgh like he did in Cork yesterday.

We haven't lost to Edinburgh at home since April 09 and I'm confident that if the team play like they did in Cork then we should have too much for Edinburgh at home

To be fair that Blues game was one of our worst performances of the season - we were much better against the Scarlets.

Still a lot to work on, but much better!

According to the BEEB, in an interview with Tandy, which was more than likely the normal weekly Press Conference, Rhys Webb is extremely doubtful for Friday's game, the Ospreys are expected to have Paul James, Aaron Jarvis and James King handed back to us, and that both Eli Walker and Jeff Hassler will be in the squad, and that Dmitri is probably out. I just hope we start with Fia and only give Jarvis a go for at the maximum last 15 minutes.

It's getting better and better as the week goes on, Jarvis, King, James and Lydiate all released back to the Ospreys for Fridays game, as long as Gatland doesn't insist on Jarvis starting, I'll be more than happy

A team close to Evans, John/Hassler, Engelbrecht, Matavesi/Watkin, Walker, Davies, Habberfield/Leonard, James, Parry, Fia, Bernardo, Thornton, Lydiate, Underhill, King with Otten, Smith, Jarvis (not on before the 60th minute), Beard, Baker/Cracknell, Habberfield/Leonard, Matavesi/Watkin, Hassler/John.

Can I finally add, watching Steve Tandy's Press Conference it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Rhys Webb took a part in this weekends game, it was never as clear cut as the reporters put it in the Fail and BEEB articles

Edinburgh team up

Tonks
Fife
Allan
Beard
Brown
Burleigh
Kennedy

Dell
Cochrane (c)
Andress
Bresler
B. Toolis
Ritchie
Watson
Du Preez


Subs
Turner, Sheills, Berghan, Gilchrist, Bradbury, SHC, Dean, Kinghorn.

Ospreys: King in at lock Wayne....

Dan Evans; Jeff Hassler, JJ Engelbrecht, Owen Watkin, Ben John; Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard (Capt); Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, James King, Rory Thornton, Dan Lydiate, Sam Underhill, Dan Baker

Replacements: Scott Otten, Gareth Thomas, Aaron Jarvis, Rynier Bernardo, Olly Cracknell, Tom Habberfield, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker

Special mention my son Will, the Ospreys mascot tomorrow night..

Happy to see Coman given a break (as I predicted correctly , for once) but disappointed to see Ritchie being given the nod ahead of Bradbury. Still would like to see Kinghorn being shown some faith to start and the Tonks at 10 experiment seems to have ended (probably for the best).

Think Edinburgh will win the set pieces (thanks to having 2 proper 2nd rows) and Ospreys to have more of a cutting edge. Will go 24-18 Ospreys simply due to home advantage and Edinburgh not being able to kick their penalties well enough.

EWT Spoons wrote:Edinburgh team up

Tonks
Fife
Allan
Beard
Brown
Burleigh
Kennedy

Dell
Cochrane (c)
Andress
Bresler
B. Toolis
Ritchie
Watson
Du Preez


Subs
Turner, Sheills, Berghan, Gilchrist, Bradbury, SHC, Dean, Kinghorn.

Am pleased with the team on the whole. Only a couple opf tweaks:

- I'd have started SH-C as I'd say he needs gametime after only getting moments for Scotland. Also surprised to see Kennedy in ahead of Fowles, who I thought played well against the Scarlets.

- Andress over Berghan continues to annoy me.

- I thought Turner was outstanding off the bench last week, but I see that Cochrane is named captain.

- I'd like to see more of Kinghorn at 15, but I didn't think Tonks had a bad game against the Scarlets.

On the positive side I'm delighted to see Beard/Allan retained, and both Brown and Fife were excellent against the Scarlets. Brown in particular is on wonderful form and for my money should be eyeing up some Scotland caps. Ritchie certainly can't say that he isn't being given chances!

Kennedy hasn't really been in form since he got back from Glasgow, so not sure why he's playing ahead of Fowles or SHC. Does make me concerned about the ball our backs are going to get.

Dell starting is interesting, I can't remember the last time he actually started a game.

Breadvan wrote:Ospreys: King in at lock Wayne....

Dan Evans; Jeff Hassler, JJ Engelbrecht, Owen Watkin, Ben John; Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard (Capt); Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, James King, Rory Thornton, Dan Lydiate, Sam Underhill, Dan Baker

Replacements: Scott Otten, Gareth Thomas, Aaron Jarvis, Rynier Bernardo, Olly Cracknell, Tom Habberfield, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker

Special mention my son Will, the Ospreys mascot tomorrow night..

Most important person on the pitch

Underhill and Lydiate on the flanks concerns me. Heck of a battle there for young Ritchie and Watson.

Am surprised that Eli Walker isn't starting.

Breadvan wrote:Ospreys: King in at lock Wayne....

Dan Evans; Jeff Hassler, JJ Engelbrecht, Owen Watkin, Ben John; Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard (Capt); Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, James King, Rory Thornton, Dan Lydiate, Sam Underhill, Dan Baker

Replacements: Scott Otten, Gareth Thomas, Aaron Jarvis, Rynier Bernardo, Olly Cracknell, Tom Habberfield, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker

Special mention my son Will, the Ospreys mascot tomorrow night..

Breadvan, a 6'6" 17st 8lb natural 2nd row as against a 6' 4 " 16st 11 lb natural back row who's played a number of games in the 2nd row, as you probably know there is uproar on our board aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!
WILL THE MAN NEVER LEARN. OR IS IT OF GATLAND'S INSISTENCE? DC anyone
Pity about Assey, good for young Watkin and great to see Hassler back
Yes also great for your son, will you be down near the entrance with him? if so I'll look out for you.

I'd like to think its a request/order from Wales HQ. Altho JK rarely lets us down, so much better at 6. Yes, I'm allowed in the tunnel area as he runs out so give me a shout..lol

Breadvan wrote:I'd like to think its a request/order from Wales HQ. Altho JK rarely lets us down, so much better at 6. Yes, I'm allowed in the tunnel area as he runs out so give me a shout..lol

I entirely agree about him not letting us down, but Parry has a record of misfiring arrows and 2" is a lot even though he was better last week but that was with proper sized locks, and 3/4 of a stone in the boiler house is also very important.
I'm always in the ground very early, I sit just beyond the oppositions dugout around 3 rows back, if you are with Keith I'll see you.

Surprised Cochran is fit - he didn't look like he knew what decade it was when he was helped off the last last week. Shame McInally has been rested - he really could do with gametime just now. Perhaps with Brown injured Cotter doesn't want go risk him.

Brilliant to see Gilchrist back - hopefully he can put his injury woes behind him.

I'm not fussed about Ritchie over Bradbury anymore - I still think Bradbury is the better player just now but as long as one of them is playing regularly that's all that matters really.

I also would have started Hidalgo-Clyne - he must be chomping at the bit to play some rugby! Plus there's a high chance that not picking him will mean goal kicking loses us the game (again).

One of the linesman tonight is the same as last week - I wonder if it is the one that made last week's controversial call?

RDW_Scotland wrote:One of the linesman tonight is the same as last week - I wonder if it is the one that made last week's controversial call?

Which one was that RDW, was it a balding bloke or a youngster who seems full of his own importance, Brickell was the first I quoted and Evans I've had issues with before, because of his inability to enforce the offside law and scrum infringements when he is the nearest touch judge, as I said above, he seems to me to believe in his own importance a very poor official in my eyes.

I don't know which one it was, but he hadn't intervened all game but decided to in the last minute to say that Edinburgh were offside - which was a tight call at best!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I don't know which one it was, but he hadn't intervened all game but decided to in the last minute to say that Edinburgh were offside - which was a tight call at best!

RDW, the official who was in last weeks game and tonight's is Evans, you were probably very unlucky, as in the past he totally missed the obvious when put right in front of him, a totally inept official, if there is anybody in Welsh officialdom that totally contradicts that what is wrong with Guinness League officials is Irish, it is this man.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I don't know which one it was, but he hadn't intervened all game but decided to in the last minute to say that Edinburgh were offside - which was a tight call at best!

That could have been either one, neither of them seemed to be watching the match. I really hope whichever one it is actually tries to look interested this week.

Standard fare for touch judges in our league mind. They're generally only there for a free run up and down a touch line and won't get involved in anything on the pitch too often.

Although it's not that ideal to say, I would almost celebrate the fact a touch judge did get involved with something on field for once. 99.9% don't bother with the simple things like squint throws and offsides. The beaut we had on the Hazell side, first half (at Rodney last week) didn't even give a lineout despite the ball bouncing a good foot out.

Am I right in thinking the touch judges don't actually get paid,l they just get expenses?

I may be wrong but I'm sure I heard that somewhere...

There have been many Edinburgh home games (with the pitch side standing right next to the pitch) where you do wonder what the TJ is actually doing all game!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Am I right in thinking the touch judges don't actually get paid,l they just get expenses?

I may be wrong but I'm sure I heard that somewhere...

There have been many Edinburgh home games (with the pitch side standing right next to the pitch) where you do wonder what the TJ is actually doing all game!

I don't know about your first sentence RDW, what you say in the third you can apply to the Ospreys as well, I remember a story a few years ago about the Welsh Ref Leighton Hodges who told his other officials not to bother giving him advice as he was Reffing the game, can't remember which Osprey game Owens was reffing this season, and Hodges tried to give him advice, and he could be heard bollocking Hodges as he had it wrong.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Am I right in thinking the touch judges don't actually get paid,l they just get expenses?

I may be wrong but I'm sure I heard that somewhere...

There have been many Edinburgh home games (with the pitch side standing right next to the pitch) where you do wonder what the TJ is actually doing all game!

I believe I have heard the same. But that could well have been in the exchanges between particular welsh and Ulster fans regarding the state of officials in the Pro12. rom what I have seen this season, it would certainly appear that the assistant refs are only there to indicate if the ball is in touch or not, so if they were just getting the petrol money to get to the game and a pie at the end of it that would be an understandable reason for the poor performances.

wayne wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:One of the linesman tonight is the same as last week - I wonder if it is the one that made last week's controversial call?

Which one was that RDW, was it a balding bloke or a youngster who seems full of his own importance, Brickell was the first I quoted and Evans I've had issues with before, because of his inability to enforce the offside law and scrum infringements when he is the nearest touch judge, as I said above, he seems to me to believe in his own importance a very poor official in my eyes.

Wayne, Evans lives in our village and everything you've written here backs up my opinion of him as well. Doesn't seem to want to get involved as a linesman. Too busy looking good and hanging on to Nigel Owens shirt tails.