Ospreys vs Edinburgh Rugby: Pro12 19th Feb

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Form:
Ospreys
14/2/16 Munster 17 - 21 Ospreys
31/1/16 Ospreys 20 - 20 Glasgow
24/1/16 Chiefs 33 - 17 Ospreys

Edinburgh

12/2/16 Scarlets 22 - 21 Edinburgh
30/1/16 Blues 10 - 3 Edinburgh
23/1/16 Grenoble 34 - 23 Edinburgh


Teams:
Ospreys
Dan Evans; Jeff Hassler, JJ Engelbrecht, Owen Watkin, Ben John; Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard (Capt); Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, James King, Rory Thornton, Dan Lydiate, Sam Underhill, Dan Baker

Replacements: Scott Otten, Gareth Thomas, Aaron Jarvis, Rynier Bernardo, Olly Cracknell, Tom Habberfield, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker

Edinburgh
Greig Tonks; Dougie Fife, Michael Allen, Sam Beard, Tom Brown; Phil Burleigh, Sean Kennedy; Allan Dell, Neil Cochrane )capt), John Andress, Anton Bresler, Ben Toolis, Jamie Ritchie, Hamish Watson, Cornell Du Preez

Replacements: George Turner, Grant Sheills, Simon Berghan, Grant Gilchrist, Magnus Bradbury, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Chris Dean, Blair Kinghorn

RDW_Scotland wrote:Am I right in thinking the touch judges don't actually get paid,l they just get expenses?

I may be wrong but I'm sure I heard that somewhere...

There have been many Edinburgh home games (with the pitch side standing right next to the pitch) where you do wonder what the TJ is actually doing all game!

I wouldn't be surprised, and it would certainly explain the dearth of quality. The worst decisions to take are the ones when both sides have been committing the same offence for 75 minutes (put in not straight or closing the gap at the lineout) and then suddently the touch judge springs into life and randomly awards a penalty with 3 minutes to play.

Didn't get to see the last game so I'm looking forward to seeing this centre partnership, hopefully they get some ball to work with. Always rated Beard and surprised how he would go through a run of good games only to be dropped and not be seen again for a while

Tonks

Just how?!

Scottish commentary online and Welsh commentary on the telly with Ponty and Pop. A no brainer for me. Online it is.

Ospreys are are dire and then a try from nowhere.

Sexy rugby from the Os.

The ref is shocking missing offsides, knock ons, forward passes and now another wrong decision.

Dan Baker is having a mare. Lydiate unlucky Garces would have let that go.

L'idiot chopped for 10mins.

Mitrea is now evening it up with some homer calls.

Ony Edinburgh would kick the ball away like that

The Ospreys front 5 recruitment is poor (Fia, Steenamp, Rhodri Jones, Cai Griffiths) Crazy .

So far D Baker is a waste of space.

3 points conceded whilst being a man up

Holding on ref!!!!!!

The Ospreys players are more confused by their own dummy runners than Edinburgh are.

Sam Davies back to normal today 5 good things and 5 poor things, standard.

Strong defense from Edinburgh.

Edinburgh are like watching a slow motion car crash

That penalty was out. Nige should have put his flag up!

Edinburgh needs more scrum to win this.

Berghan showing up greatly, makes the constant selection of Andress over him even worse.

Edinburgh have just been Poopie the last 15 mins

We never came out for the 2nd half. The scoreline has suggested the game has stayed close since half time, but it hasn't been. We just haven't been involved

Sam Davies playing really well again, O's probably have the 2 best Welsh 10's on current form.

How the hell can Dan Baker get MOM !!!

What has happened to Tonks? He's blowing not so much hot and cold as slightly warm and bloody freezing. Kinghorn needs to be given a start

Dan Baker Man of The Match! :doh
Nugget ? Is it cos he is Ginger?

Congrats Ospreys, not the most fluid performance but had way more than enough to see Edinburgh off

Well that was rubbish! Welsh 10 the pick for me.

Game turned when we fdidn't get the pen for the offside in the maul and also in the half time talks. Edinburgh just better in the first half, Ospreys clearly better in the second

Lydiate is going to break someones leg unless he stops doing that - and will just continue to collect yellows.

Decent match from Mitrea - he is always very strict and the breakdown but he was consistent - only poor call the non call on the maul

Looking at the table, 8th place is looming once again for Edinburgh..

Next 2 home game are now must win games against Scarlets and Connacht, preferably so without a bonus point for the visitors.

Poor game for Edinburgh. No points in the 2nd. Looked really impressive in the first. Can we have a rule in Scotland where if there is an up and under someone backs up the player going for the ball in the air in case he loses? Bust a gut because it seems to happen every other week and saw it happen to Worcester against Bath. Brown should have jumped as well. Compete for the ball don't wait for it!

Happy with Berghan and Allan who both impressed for me. Watson is a livewire. I feel sorry for him as he works his socks off. Burleigh is so important to our backs. Good thing he is about for a couple of seasons.

Hope the Osprey's fans enjoyed it and that Breadvan's(?) son had a good experience at the rugby even if he is disappointed at Edinburgh losing....

Yes he had a great time thanks Hazel. Before and after in the lounge, meeting the players and staff, in the tunnel etc. So did I too lol. Don't know why he would be disappionted at Edinburgh losing? especially as he nearly predicted the final score (27-14)
As for the game itself, cliche' game of two halves. Our attack is still unimaginative. Watkin, Underhill get better every match, along with Sam Davies. Thought Lydiates yellow was harsh..

Take it this game isn't worth watching on iplayer then?

Breadvan wrote:s. Thought Lydiates yellow was harsh..

Why? Clear dangerous no arms tackle. There has been a directive to refs this season to stamp these out. Very dangerous as it has the potential to break legs. Clearly no arms. clearly dangerous, yellow every day of the week, red possible if deemed deliberate attempt to injure

RDW_Scotland wrote:Take it this game isn't worth watching on iplayer then?

Missed this game live and on TV because I went to Quins v Tigers to see Adam J.Well worth a watch on iplayer.EB could have been 20-6 up at half time but your boy Tonks missed 2 kicks and 2 half chances for tries went begging.The second half was a different story.From what I saw on TV your Hamish Watson was impressive.For the O's I think Sam D just needs a tad more composure at times and his 'show and go' whilst a thing of beauty is being overdone.Still too much aimless kicking in the Pro12.

On Dan's yellow card it bears comparison to Tuilagi's non yellow after his tackle on Quins' Stanley last night.Both apparently used their arms but one got a yellow,one didn't.

I thought we were the architects of our own downfall in the first half last night, the mistakes by Evans, Lydiate, Watkin, Davies and Baker ( how was he named MOTM? totally ridiculous), nearly cost us this match.
The 2nd half was a totally different affair, Sam really started to control the game, the aggression and aerial ability of especially John and to a lesser degree Hassler was very effective as was their effectiveness when taking the ball into contact, I think a lot of our scrum problems came because of the undersize King in preference to Bernardo, you only have to look at the scrum after Rynier came on to show the difference.
Every lineout we threw into, IIRC up to around the 50th minute was thrown to Thornton, it was then thrown to King on a couple of occasions, but probably the best lineout of the night was when Otten threw to Bernardo and he diverted it with about the top 3 inches of his hand. WE HAVE TO START WITH 2 PROPER SECOND ROWS, for effective tight forward play.
My MOTM would have been Olly Cracknell closely followed by Ben John, if anything Olly had a more influential game than Underhill even though Sam scored a try, it spoke volumes for Olly that Sam wasn't missed, and just to remind people there was an idiot on here on the infamous Ospreys Worst Welsh Region thread last year said he never had rated Olly and wouldn't amount to much.
I suppose in a way it was significant that the only player on the bench not to make an introduction was Eli Walker, and IMO all the others made significant contributions to this win
Finally have to say how great it was to meet up with Breadvan and his family, met just as the game started, and had a decent chat at half time, he gave me some great advice about some on here. Good bloke, the only thing is Breadvan you need to come to the other side next year

Edinburgh were poor 2nd half but really should have built a decent lead in the first half. We are repeatedly bad at keeping the scoreboard moving when we are on top, and equally bad at giving out soft points.

No question Ospreys were better in the 2nd half and deserved to win.

I was pleased with Dell at loosehead. He reminds me of a younger Al Dickinson. Really good around the park but needs more work on scrummaging, albeit he did well yesterday. Watson was also decent.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Edinburgh were poor 2nd half but really should have built a decent lead in the first half. We are repeatedly bad at keeping the scoreboard moving when we are on top, and equally bad at giving out soft points.

No question Ospreys were better in the 2nd half and deserved to win.

I was pleased with Dell at loosehead. He reminds me of a younger Al Dickinson. Really good around the park but needs more work on scrummaging, albeit he did well yesterday. Watson was also decent.

FES Watson was excellent, just wouldn't lie down, even when going into contact with bigger men, Dell also scrummaged well, he was helped by the lightweight in our 2nd row, and sorry to say this as a former front rower when there is a put in by a team and the scrum turns with the opposing team's back row going towards the touchline, the penalty should go to the defending team, why would a defending team pull a scrum in that direction as Mitrea indicated, look I'm not saying you were not the better scrum, because you were, but I think Mitrea is like a lot of Referees in our League, he has no idea what is going on in the scrums.

I struggled quite a bit with Mitrea's interpretations, and in fact I thought the Ospreys came of worse from the ref generally. Didn't agree with the Lydiate yellow card. He got the timing wrong with his arms but he was clearly attemping a legitimate tackle, it wasn't a shoulder charge.

Watson can count himself unlucky in my opinion. Had Hardie not defected to God's country, I think Watson would be the Scotland openside. He's a proper specialist and well suits the new Scotland game plan (or at least the game plan we are trying to play). He had a great game against the Ospreys.

So how did we go from 13-6 up to scoring no second half points and losing comfortably?

Ospreys had a man in the bin at the start of the 2nd half, confused the hell out of us.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So how did we go from 13-6 up to scoring no second half points and losing comfortably?

Ospreys were poor in the first half and much better in the second. When they stepped it up in the second half their half backs regained some swagger and started to boss things. At the same time we got a bit wragged and started to annoy the ref at the breakdown, which ultimately cost us a yellow card as well as a bunch of penalties.

Truth be told we should never have been 13-13 at the break. Tonks missed two easy pens and we gifted some really cheap points. We should have been 10 ahead going into the break, and I think it affected the players knowing that they had failed to cash in whilst the Ospreys were struggling, and conversely the half time message to the Ospreys would have been easy: you were rubbish for 40 minutes and yet are drawing level. Turn it on in the second half and you'll win with something to spare. Which is what happened.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So how did we go from 13-6 up to scoring no second half points and losing comfortably?

Ospreys were poor in the first half and much better in the second. When they stepped it up in the second half their half backs regained some swagger and started to boss things. At the same time we got a bit wragged and started to annoy the ref at the breakdown, which ultimately cost us a yellow card as well as a bunch of penalties.

Truth be told we should never have been 13-13 at the break. Tonks missed two easy pens and we gifted some really cheap points. We should have been 10 ahead going into the break, and I think it affected the players knowing that they had failed to cash in whilst the Ospreys were struggling, and conversely the half time message to the Ospreys would have been easy: you were rubbish for 40 minutes and yet are drawing level. Turn it on in the second half and you'll win with something to spare. Which is what happened.

That's pretty much right FES, I also agree with whoever said about Lydiate's Yellow, sorry but it was not even a penalty, there was a good review of it on Scrum V yesterday, when it was explained about players bouncing off a tackle, as if a tackler went in first with the arm it would get broken, the shoulder has to hit first and the arm then wraps around, but if the tackled player bounces off the force of the impact, how can the tackler wrap his arm around, they reckoned as long as the arm is out in front ready to wrap around as Lydiate's was, there was nothing wrong in what he did. This came from Martyn Williams and Jiffy and I totally agree with.

I think that analysis is about right. In real time it looked worse because Lydiate was very quick out of the blocks (quite rightly) and the player he tackled was particularly tall and went down quickly. In slow motion you could easily see that Lydiate's intent was to make a perfectly legal tackle, which in my view is why the yellow wasn't appropriate. You can argue both ways on the penalty - he didn't manage to get his arms wrapped around the Edinburgh player so on a strict reading it is a foul (i.e. use of shoulder only), but as you say, pretty tough call given the speed of the tackle.

Had it been John Hardie making that tackle on AWJ in Cardiff last weekend I'm pretty sure us Scots would have been furious at the yellow and yet another sign of anti-Scots injustice in the world, and similarly the Welsh would want Hardie in the stocks at noon for the attempted murder of a national icon!

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think that analysis is about right. In real time it looked worse because Lydiate was very quick out of the blocks (quite rightly) and the player he tackled was particularly tall and went down quickly. In slow motion you could easily see that Lydiate's intent was to make a perfectly legal tackle, which in my view is why the yellow wasn't appropriate. You can argue both ways on the penalty - he didn't manage to get his arms wrapped around the Edinburgh player so on a strict reading it is a foul (i.e. use of shoulder only), but as you say, pretty tough call given the speed of the tackle.

Had it been John Hardie making that tackle on AWJ in Cardiff last weekend I'm pretty sure us Scots would have been furious at the yellow and yet another sign of anti-Scots injustice in the world, and similarly the Welsh would want Hardie in the stocks at noon for the attempted murder of a national icon!

Yes you're probably right about your last paragraph FES, especially with some of the idiots on here.

The intent to tackle was there but it was badly executed. Maybe just a penalty. I do feel for ref's in that position though.

I do not understand how anyone can think Lydiate should not have had a yellow - its as clear a piece of dangerous play as there is - no attempt to use the arms at all yes he had one arm out to the side but that is not an attempt to grab with the arms. Its not ill timed - Lydiate has been doing this for a long time and is a large part of the reason that this new guidence was given. He could easily break someones leg doing this.

He did attempt to use his arms, that's the whole point. As I said, I don't think it's outrageous that a penalty was given, but I don't think that sort of play is what yellow cards are for. There was nothing cynical or deliberate about the tackle, in my opinion.

Let's be clear, we're not talking about a howling injustice. More a question of interpretation.

It's a toughie. I probably would have carded him too. Not because it's cynical, deliberate or malicious but more because it seems quite clumsy.

He did try to use his arms but failed. ergo penalty and a yellow for clumsiness.