Ospreys 2015/16 Season

First topic message reminder :

True Raven wrote:I'm sure King said he's happy to play anywhere in the back row he just won't play anymore in the 2nd row so hopefully that experiment has come and gone.

It looks like Fia will be starting tomorrow if the training session was anything to go by as he was doing reps with the first team so Jarvis should be planted on the bench

So much for what King wants then TR, ridiculous selection, as for your second sentence correct hope we don't see Jarvis until at least the 70th minute.

Very odd, Jarvis is a so-so tighthead, selected for Wales down to injuries and the fact that the next in line was Scott Andrews.

I'm hearing elsewhere that a deal was almost done with the Scarlets for Jarvis, but it broke down recently (I believe we wanted to spend cash elsewhere), so it is possible Clermont have picked him up on the cheap, which would make some sense.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Not sure it will push it at all.  Jarvis is in the squad because Rhodri Jones has been out injured, Gats will throw Rhodri back in, and Jarvis will be forgotten about.  Well unless he shines.

SS, this what worries us, that Gatland will want us to play Rhodri at T/H next season when we have 2 far superior players for that position, as he is NOT on a DC, we will have no compulsion to agree to his wishes, let me just add I've been really ill with a stomach bug for a few days, so haven't been able to reply to a number of the comments, let me say, the published accounts were very good and this only accounted for 4 DC, so with the new 4 for next season, we should see a really healthy profit for next year.
We've had some more shocking injury news again with Engelbrecht out for up to 8 weeks, this season has been a disaster on the injury front, thankfully Jarvis is injured and we wouldn't have to play him tomorrow, although with the 2 selected teams I can see our season aspirations ending at this game, I would say we would have to get 25 points from the final 5 games to achieve RCC 1 status, if we get nothing this weekend, we get Ardron back and put him straight into the boiler house when he is a superb 6 or 8, no Bernardo, at least we'll have Beard to come on, another illogical team selection for this game.

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Not sure it will push it at all.  Jarvis is in the squad because Rhodri Jones has been out injured, Gats will throw Rhodri back in, and Jarvis will be forgotten about.  Well unless he shines.

SS, this what worries us, that Gatland will want us to play Rhodri at T/H next season when we have 2 far superior players for that position, as he is NOT on a DC, we will have no compulsion to agree to his wishes, let me just add I've been really ill with a stomach bug for a few days, so haven't been able to reply to a number of the comments, let me say, the published accounts were very good and this only accounted for 4 DC, so with the new 4 for next season, we should see a really healthy profit for next year.
We've had some more shocking injury news again with Engelbrecht out for up to 8 weeks, this season has been a disaster on the injury front, thankfully Jarvis is injured and we wouldn't have to play him tomorrow, although with the 2 selected teams I can see our season aspirations ending at this game, I would say we would have to get 25 points from the final 5 games to achieve RCC 1 status, if we get nothing this weekend, we get Ardron back and put him straight into the boiler house when he is a superb 6 or 8, no Bernardo, at least we'll have Beard to come on, another illogical team selection for this game.

Wayne,hope you're recovered.A very strong Leinster team particularly the front row.An oddity is that our second row quite a bit heavier than theirs and a lot heavier if RT/AB play together.But Tyler at lock? No Bernardo,not even on the bench,yet he played against Glasgow and Munster! I'll remain hopeful but not overly optimistic.Off out now to find a bar showing Edinburgh v Connacht.Come on the Galwegians.

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Not sure it will push it at all.  Jarvis is in the squad because Rhodri Jones has been out injured, Gats will throw Rhodri back in, and Jarvis will be forgotten about.  Well unless he shines.

SS, this what worries us, that Gatland will want us to play Rhodri at T/H next season when we have 2 far superior players for that position, as he is NOT on a DC, we will have no compulsion to agree to his wishes, let me just add I've been really ill with a stomach bug for a few days, so haven't been able to reply to a number of the comments, let me say, the published accounts were very good and this only accounted for 4 DC, so with the new 4 for next season, we should see a really healthy profit for next year.
We've had some more shocking injury news again with Engelbrecht out for up to 8 weeks, this season has been a disaster on the injury front, thankfully Jarvis is injured and we wouldn't have to play him tomorrow, although with the 2 selected teams I can see our season aspirations ending at this game, I would say we would have to get 25 points from the final 5 games to achieve RCC 1 status, if we get nothing this weekend, we get Ardron back and put him straight into the boiler house when he is a superb 6 or 8, no Bernardo, at least we'll have Beard to come on, another illogical team selection for this game.

Wayne,hope you're recovered.A very strong Leinster team particularly the front row.An oddity is that our second row quite a bit heavier than theirs and a lot heavier if RT/AB play together.But Tyler at lock? No Bernardo,not even on the bench,yet he played against Glasgow and Munster! I'll remain hopeful but not overly optimistic.Off out now to find a bar showing Edinburgh v Connacht.Come on the Galwegians.

Not 100% Jack, but a lot better, yes hopefully the Galwegians do us a favour, I think basically if we finish above 1 Scottish and Irish team, we should qualify for RCC 1, so the Scottish team has to be Edinburgh, as I think Glasgow have too many points and easy games for us to challenge them, probably Munster is the only Irish team we have a chance of catching, although I'm not too hopeful.

Interesting in the Ospreys recently released accounts is how they employ 102 rugby players.

Clearly that includes the wages of the Bridgend players.

What do you guys think about Hore leaving?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35718984

He's been pretty outspoken, but generally made sense to me. Running with profit.

Personally I think it is good news for the other regions, as Hore seemed to be very good at winning favour with the union with regards the NDC situation. However I do think he will be missed by the Ospreys.

I have heard Rupert Moon has stepped down from RGC so he could well be on his way over.

HammerofThunor wrote:What do you guys think about Hore leaving?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35718984

He's been pretty outspoken, but generally made sense to me. Running with profit.

Massive profit Hammer, knew it was coming but still a shock, very large boots to fill, Andrew Millward former Rugby General Manager takes over most of his responsibilities immediately.
Back to AH, will IMO, be taking over The Warathas for not very long, he has bigger and better jobs in the medium to long term future to aim for.
Thanks Andrew you will be sorely missed in The One True Region.

I rated him quite highly.  Big loss.

Are we allowed to say he was poached by the Southern Hemisphere?!  Or did Wales poach him originally?  Double poached then.  Just like my eggs.    

I'm glad he is gone, whilst I respect his work he has done with the players at Ospreys, he was constantly bitching about the WRU even after the regions got what they wanted from the last fall out, here he was again moaning about this that and the other. 

I will not miss his whining tone and constant complaining.

One of the few figures in welsh rugby with any vision, terrible shame hes gone. Jult hope Millward has learned under him

His recent 'moaning' was about needing to increase the NWQ's slots in the squad to keep the Ospreys competitive when we lose our Welsh internationals. For someone like yourself LD who wants the regions to succeed, I don't understand how you think this was a bad idea

True Raven wrote:One of the few figures in welsh rugby with any vision, terrible shame hes gone.  Jult hope Millward has learned under him

His recent 'moaning' was about needing to increase the NWQ's slots in the squad to keep the Ospreys competitive when we lose our Welsh internationals.  For someone like yourself LD who wants the regions to succeed, I don't understand how you think this was a bad idea

For some reason, it would seem that LD believes that everyone and everything involved in Welsh rugby should be Welsh. Cheese and biscuits included most probably.

No, I just do not think the regions should be a refuge for NWQ players that no other teams want.

Also, there should be no excuses next season, the regions have won their war, they have gotten what they wanted, so we should see an upturn in results both domestically and in Europe next season.

LordDowlais wrote:I'm glad he is gone, whilst I respect his work he has done with the players at Ospreys, he was constantly bitching about the WRU even after the regions got what they wanted from the last fall out, here he was again moaning about this that and the other. 

I will not miss his whining tone and constant complaining.

They didn't get anywhere near 'what they wanted'.

LordDowlais wrote:No, I just do not think the regions should be a refuge for NWQ players that no other teams want.

Also, there should be no excuses next season, the regions have won their war, they have gotten what they wanted, so we should see an upturn in results both domestically and in Europe next season.

Again, they didn't get what they wanted.

And why do you think players turn up at PRW teams only if no other team wanted them? That's a completely ludicrous thing to write.

PhilBB wrote:And why do you think players turn up at PRW teams only if no other team wanted them? That's a completely ludicrous thing to write.

Andy Tuilagi at Dragons is just one example, I bet I could find a few more that have not had their contracts renewed at other clubs but found a job at the regions.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:And why do you think players turn up at PRW teams only if no other team wanted them? That's a completely ludicrous thing to write.

Andy Tuilagi at Dragons is just one example, I bet I could find a few more that have not had their contracts renewed at other clubs but found a job at the regions.

So you can think of one player. One. Just one. One in a number of how many nWq who have signed for PRW teams? One.

That's ridiculously embarrassing.

And what evidence do you have that no other club wanted him?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:And why do you think players turn up at PRW teams only if no other team wanted them? That's a completely ludicrous thing to write.

Andy Tuilagi at Dragons is just one example, I bet I could find a few more that have not had their contracts renewed at other clubs but found a job at the regions.

So you can think of one player. One. Just one. One in a number of how many nWq who have signed for PRW teams? One.

That's ridiculously embarrassing.

And what evidence do you have that no other club wanted him?

What about the new Australian prop who has just been sacked and is now playing for Cardiff ? Also there have been loads over the years, so please stop embarrassing yourself.

Blane Scully is another one.

Chauncey O'Toole is another, oh they can just keep on coming.

LordDowlais wrote:
What about the new Australian prop who has just been sacked and is now playing for Cardiff ? Also there have been loads over the years, so please stop embarrassing yourself.

Yes, Ma'afu. Please provide me with evidence that ONLY Cardiff wanted to sign him. And then do the same with Tuilagi.

Else, you're just spouting incoherent and inaccurate drivel.

The onus is on you to support your claim. Either provide the support or be shown to be telling blatant lies.

LordDowlais wrote:Blane Scully is another one.

Evidence that no other team wanted his signature?

I do not need any evidence to show if anybody else wanted them, their contracts were not renewed at their previous clubs, because they were surplus to requirements, but hey ho, they were deemed good enough to play for our regions. THAT IS A FACT. So now please scuttle off and stop making a fool of yourself.

Campese Ma'afu, there was another, yes I remember him making a massive impact at Cardiff.....  He was so good, the mighty Nottingham did not renew his contract.

LordDowlais wrote:I do not need any evidence to show if anybody else wanted them, their contracts were not renewed at their previous clubs, because they were surplus to requirements, but hey ho, they were deemed good enough to play for our regions. THAT IS A FACT. So now please scuttle off and stop making a fool of yourself.

DTH didn't have his contract renewed by Glasgow as they did not see him in their plans going forward, yet he has been a good signing for the Scarlets. Similar could be said for Parkes, who was seemed to bounce around S15 squads and then signed for the Scarlets and has been a key player since he arrived. I'm pretty sure that you could look around all the regions and find a success story that has not had their contract renewed by their original side

LordDowlais wrote:I do not need any evidence to show if anybody else wanted them, their contracts were not renewed at their previous clubs, because they were surplus to requirements, but hey ho, they were deemed good enough to play for our regions. THAT IS A FACT. So now please scuttle off and stop making a fool of yourself.

Right, I see.

Let's have a look at the game you've just played.

Firstly, you wrote:"I just do not think the regions should be a refuge for NWQ players that no other teams want"

Now, you've scuttled to the position of: "their contracts were not renewed at their previous clubs, because they were surplus to requirements"

So, your position has changed dramatically from 'no other team wants them' to showing just ONE other team didn't want them.

I'll leave that there for others to judge.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I do not need any evidence to show if anybody else wanted them, their contracts were not renewed at their previous clubs, because they were surplus to requirements, but hey ho, they were deemed good enough to play for our regions. THAT IS A FACT. So now please scuttle off and stop making a fool of yourself.

DTH didn't have his contract renewed by Glasgow as they did not see him in their plans going forward, yet he has been a good signing for the Scarlets.  Similar could be said for Parkes, who was seemed to bounce around S15 squads and then signed for the Scarlets and has been a key player since he arrived.  I'm pretty sure that you could look around all the regions and find a success story that has not had their contract renewed by their original side

I'm not arguing that that point though am I ? I am still at a bemusement as to why Glasgow let DTH go in the first place, and Hadley Parks was a lucky punt. 

What I am on about are the one's that have been cast aside by other clubs, because they were not considered good enough, yet they seem to end up at the regions.

LordDowlais wrote:Blane Scully is another one.

Oh.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-offer-Blaine-Scully-right/story-26243010-detail/story.html

Would you like a napkin to help remove that egg?

LordDowlais wrote:

I'm not arguing that that point though am I ? I am still at a bemusement as to why Glasgow let DTH go in the first place, and Hadley Parks was a lucky punt. 

What I am on about are the one's that have been cast aside by other clubs, because they were not considered good enough, yet they seem to end up at the regions.

Seemingly, Glasgow allowed DTH to leave as they deemed him not good enough.

Therefore, he meets your new point of 'players who sign for PRW teams having been let go by their previous club' rather than your original point of 'players who sign for PRW teams as no other club wants them'.

LordDowlais wrote:Campese Ma'afu, there was another, yes I remember him making a massive impact at Cardiff.....  He was so good, the mighty Nottingham did not renew his contract.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35670653

At this rate, we're going to need to order a huge volume of napkins.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Blane Scully is another one.

Oh.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-offer-Blaine-Scully-right/story-26243010-detail/story.html

Would you like a napkin to help remove that egg?

Stop talking crap phil. He was not offered what he wanted by Leicester, this bit says it all:-

"we have good back-three coverage and there has to be the fit with everything else."

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Blane Scully is another one.

Oh.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-offer-Blaine-Scully-right/story-26243010-detail/story.html

Would you like a napkin to help remove that egg?

Stop talking crap phil. He was not offered what he wanted by Leicester, this bit says it all:-

"we have good back-three coverage and there has to be the fit with everything else."

"He would have preferred to stay here and, in all honesty, I would have liked him to stay"

So Leicester wanted him to stay. That's a direct quote. A direct quote that disproves you. Disproves you entirely.

Are you going to man up to your error? We can then move on to you cowardly wriggle from your initial claim.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Campese Ma'afu, there was another, yes I remember him making a massive impact at Cardiff.....  He was so good, the mighty Nottingham did not renew his contract.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35670653

At this rate, we're going to need to order a huge volume of napkins.

Why ?

Because Northampton have made the same mistake has Cardiff has ? I could not give a FF who non Welsh clubs sign, I do not support them.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Blane Scully is another one.

Oh.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-offer-Blaine-Scully-right/story-26243010-detail/story.html

Would you like a napkin to help remove that egg?

Stop talking crap phil. He was not offered what he wanted by Leicester, this bit says it all:-

"we have good back-three coverage and there has to be the fit with everything else."

"He would have preferred to stay here and, in all honesty, I would have liked him to stay"

So Leicester wanted him to stay. That's a direct quote. A direct quote that disproves you. Disproves you entirely.

Are you going to man up to your error? We can then move on to you cowardly wriggle from your initial claim.

No Phil, they would have liked him to stay, but not for what he thought he was worth, and for how long he wanted. Leicester obviously valued him less, that speaks volumes.

LordDowlais wrote:
Why ?

Because Northampton have made the same mistake has Cardiff has ? I could not give a FF who non Welsh clubs sign, I do not support them.

You're shameless. Do you really think that you can bluster your way through such a logic gap?

You claimed PRW teams signed players not wanted by any other club. You then tried to wriggle that to claiming PRW clubs shouldn't sign players who aren't offered new contracts by their present club. Your point being that PRW teams sign inferior players.

Two links above disprove both claims.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I do not need any evidence to show if anybody else wanted them, their contracts were not renewed at their previous clubs, because they were surplus to requirements, but hey ho, they were deemed good enough to play for our regions. THAT IS A FACT. So now please scuttle off and stop making a fool of yourself.

DTH didn't have his contract renewed by Glasgow as they did not see him in their plans going forward, yet he has been a good signing for the Scarlets.  Similar could be said for Parkes, who was seemed to bounce around S15 squads and then signed for the Scarlets and has been a key player since he arrived.  I'm pretty sure that you could look around all the regions and find a success story that has not had their contract renewed by their original side

I'm not arguing that that point though am I ? I am still at a bemusement as to why Glasgow let DTH go in the first place, and Hadley Parks was a lucky punt. 

What I am on about are the one's that have been cast aside by other clubs, because they were not considered good enough, yet they seem to end up at the regions.

But you said

LordDowlais wrote:No, I just do not think the regions should be a refuge for NWQ players that no other teams want.

And I am trying to point out that just because the players are not wanted elsewhere they may be the right fit for one of the regions. Regan King is a pretty good example, he was a one cap all black, that was pretty much unknown and struggling to even bench warm at Stade Francais, and then when he was discarded by them he was taken on by the Scarlets and became one of the best centres to have played in the Pro12.

Also Parkes was far from a lucky punt, he has been a captain under Pivac back in NZ, so it was a case of knowing how to use someone to their best, where others didn't. Which is again why it does make it a bad signing to get someone that is 'unwanted' elsewhere if you believe you can get the best out of them.

LordDowlais wrote:
No Phil, they would have liked him to stay, but not for what he thought he was worth, and for how long they wanted. Leicester obviously valued him less, that speaks volumes.

Right. So you admit that they did want him to stay.

Your position has moved, in such a short space of time, from:

- PRW sign players NO other club wants
to
- PRW sign players whose present employer no longer wants them
to
- PRW sign players whose present employer does want them but not as much as the PRW team wanted them

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Also Parkes was far from a lucky punt, he has been a captain under Pivac back in NZ, so it was a case of knowing how to use someone to their best, where others didn't. Which is again why it does make it a bad signing to get someone that is 'unwanted' elsewhere if you believe you can get the best out of them.

I did not know Hadley Parkes has a history with Pivac, that signing makes sense now.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
No Phil, they would have liked him to stay, but not for what he thought he was worth, and for how long they wanted. Leicester obviously valued him less, that speaks volumes.

Right. So you admit that they did want him to stay.

Your position has moved, in such a short space of time, from:

- PRW sign players NO other club wants
to
- PRW sign players whose present employer no longer wants them
to
- PRW sign players whose present employer does want them but not as much as the PRW team wanted them

No that tells me that Cardiff are stupid enough to give a player more than his worth, where Leicester are not. No wonder Cardiff are always battling it out with Dragons not to be the worst side outside of Italy. They keep paying a fortune for substandard players.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Also Parkes was far from a lucky punt, he has been a captain under Pivac back in NZ, so it was a case of knowing how to use someone to their best, where others didn't. Which is again why it does make it a bad signing to get someone that is 'unwanted' elsewhere if you believe you can get the best out of them.

I did not know Hadley Parkes has a history with Pivac, that signing makes sense now.

I think that is one of the things most of us don't really look at when we see signings being announced. We look at the player, and where they are playing presently, and their playing record for the last season or so (starts, bench apps, tries etc), but we don't really consider other reasons behind the deal. From what I have heard a fair few signings end up being made or broken by the players previous dealing with other players/coaches within the side. The signings the Scarlets have made of late all have some connection to the club already, either via family being from the region or knowing a player/coach who is there at the moment or in the very recent past. I would be willing to believe that this is a similar situation with other regions too. I know that now the Blues have signed Nick Williams, they are meant to be in talks with Tim Nanai-Williams (Nick's cousin) etc.

ScarletSpiderman wrote: I know that now the Blues have signed Nick Williams, they are meant to be in talks with Tim Nanai-Williams (Nick's cousin) etc.

But I would like to think that the people making the decisions have at least seen these players in action before they take a punt on them, surely ?

Of course they have!!!
Coaching teams employ analysts who have this as part of their remit.
There's software available for recruitment.
It's pretty naïve to think that clubs take an uneducated guess or a 'punt'.
Clubs are a lot more sophisticated now when it comes recruitment now.

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:Of course they have!!!
Coaching teams employ analysts who have this as part of their remit.
There's software available for recruitment.
It's pretty naïve to think that clubs take an uneducated guess or a 'punt'.
Clubs are a lot more sophisticated now when it comes recruitment now.

What, you reckon our already skint regions have scouts in the SH watching players ? Or are they just watching a highlights video of them ?

Bit of both mate.
Nothing wrong with video footage either.
Particularly with the ability to rewind, code, replay, player cams and statistics and so on.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote: I know that now the Blues have signed Nick Williams, they are meant to be in talks with Tim Nanai-Williams (Nick's cousin) etc.

But I would like to think that the people making the decisions have at least seen these players in action before they take a punt on them, surely ?

Have you heard of/watched Cheifs (S15) player Nanai-Williams? If not, I can assure you the people at the Blues have.

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote: I know that now the Blues have signed Nick Williams, they are meant to be in talks with Tim Nanai-Williams (Nick's cousin) etc.

But I would like to think that the people making the decisions have at least seen these players in action before they take a punt on them, surely ?

Have you heard of/watched Cheifs (S15) player Nanai-Williams? If not, I can assure you the people at the Blues have.

Oh BTW, not Nick's cousin, its his brother, and Sonny-Bill's cousin.

If the Blues were to get Nanai Williams, that would be ridiculous!

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
No Phil, they would have liked him to stay, but not for what he thought he was worth, and for how long they wanted. Leicester obviously valued him less, that speaks volumes.

Right. So you admit that they did want him to stay.

Your position has moved, in such a short space of time, from:

- PRW sign players NO other club wants
to
- PRW sign players whose present employer no longer wants them
to
- PRW sign players whose present employer does want them but not as much as the PRW team wanted them

No that tells me that Cardiff are stupid enough to give a player more than his worth, where Leicester are not. No wonder Cardiff are always battling it out with Dragons not to be the worst side outside of Italy. They keep paying a fortune for substandard players.

Rightio, but you must admit that it is a fair representation of how your position has changed today.

Yes?

LordDowlais wrote:
What, you reckon our already skint regions have scouts in the SH watching players ? Or are they just watching a highlights video of them ?

'Skint regions' use contacts like ex-players. Guys like Paul Tito.

I'm not surprised that you didn't know this.