Ospreys 2015/16 Season

by wayne Fri 19 Feb - 2:31

First topic message reminder :

True Raven wrote:I'm sure King said he's happy to play anywhere in the back row he just won't play anymore in the 2nd row so hopefully that experiment has come and gone.

It looks like Fia will be starting tomorrow if the training session was anything to go by as he was doing reps with the first team so Jarvis should be planted on the bench

So much for what King wants then TR, ridiculous selection, as for your second sentence correct hope we don't see Jarvis until at least the 70th minute.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 19 May - 5:15

wayne wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
wayne wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
wayne wrote:The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

The WRU has to agree to any NDC, obviously, but do you know for a fact that the Ospreys aren't going to the WRU with requests?
If you Google Rugby Services Agreement, you will get among others a link to the WRU website about this agreement, partways down the page is the following.
Players to be offered a new National Dual Contract will be chosen by the National Head Coach and will become WRU employees, which IMO is only common sense, to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous.
Just to put you right, I don't do links, never have and never will, if you want confirmation Google it yourself

aka Dark Matter; can't see it, but we know it's there somewhere.
You ought to know the saying "there are none so blind as they who don't want to see" that applies perfectly to you. There is nobody more inept at finding out information on these boards than myself, and I found it very easily

All of it or just bits and pieces like ye olde PA?

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 6:08

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:No it isn't a nonsense. The proof is this - Lydiate is first choice for Wales and proved the nay-sayers crying for Warburton Tipuric back-row wrong. Shingler, Croft and Wood can't get into their international team. The former two will be lucky to be club starters this coming season - a shame for Croft actually because there was a time when he was an England regular, but that game has moved on since then, even Gatland acknowledges this.

No, all that proves is Lydiate is good at Cementball - you know, that appalling system that is two from twenty-eight against the world's best where players arw picked accorfing tl that well known rugby testing scale the barbell bench press. Wales' back row is just as limited by Lydiate. He can't carry, could be outpaced by a pensioner and the one trick he has in his arsenal is increasingly illegal. Cracknell brings more to the O's than bloody Lydiate, that's a sorry state of affairs for anyone touted as the best in Wales.

Let's backtrack here a moment - you said he fundamentally unbalances every back-row he plays in. I showed you that he doesn't, and the Lydiate/Warburton combo has proven to be better than the Warburton/Tipuric one on a number of occasions. I also pointed out the actual flankers that create unbalance for teams. Your comments on him here are old, they would have been true if you had said it the season he arrived back from France, got injured, and was thrust into a game against South Africa. You can't have watched him this season if that's your opinion right now. He wasn't really needed at the Ospreys - they have a number of back-row players and settled combo's, but often feel obliged to play him because of the NDC. They probably should have put their hands up and said he wasn't needed, but in the Tandy show anything goes. That said, King, Lydiate and Cracknell also worked pretty well.

You didn't show me anything, other than a vague hero worship for a limited player. Just because someone else covers his deficiency that does not equal balance. He hasn't improved one iota either for the Os or TW from the many games I've watched him play, despite all the coaching genius of Warren Gatland and Steve Tandridge being applied. Name me one facet he excels in as an established international that isn't tackling. He's the Cuthburt in the pack.

They work well as a combo and have done for years - take your pick. Lydiate, Tips and Baker also works as a back-row, so there is another combo for you. I don't think he's improved either, but that slump in form was temporary and he's now better than that. I'm not sure how stating the obvious is hero worship. I've never been his biggest fan.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 16:59

Stone Motif wrote:
wayne wrote:it is funny now that when I asked what was Lydiate's attributes when playing for the Dragons other than tackling, I was met with a wall of silence, now these same people are coming out with all this rubbish

Almost as funny as your claim that Delve wasnt being paid a massive wage the other week then. Fair play, that's some professional nous right there....

I've got Wayne's messages to me where he claimed that Underhill wasn't being paid by the Ospreys, despite the accounts of Llandarcy Park (Ospreys) and its component companies proving otherwise.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 18:40

Well, according to to Gareth Davies the WRU are not favouring Ospreys:-

Welsh Rugby Union chairman Gareth Davies has denied his organisation are favouring the Ospreys over the three other regions in the wake of Wasps lock Bradley Davies joining the Liberty Stadium outfit next season.

I know it's the WOL, but there is a full list here of all the players on NDC's:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-list-welsh-rugbys-16-11352231

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 18:49

So Gareth Davies says something and LD believes him picard

by True Raven Thu 19 May - 19:01

Out of the 9 NDC the only two who should not be on there are Baker and Thornton as I can understand the other regions frustations why their young players havent been signed up (especially as Baker and Thornton are no where near Wales first team)

The other 7 I have no problem with as they are all members of WG wales squad. If the Scarlets management havent had discussions with the WRU (just speculation) regarding Ken Owens, Liam Williams, Rob Evans, Gareth Davies e.t.c being on NDC or decided to offer them contracts without the help of the WRU then they're the ones at fault for not using the WRU's finances wisely.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 19:09

mikey_dragon wrote:So Gareth Davies says something and LD believes him

No, FFS, what is the matter with you ? Take that bag of spuds off your shoulder will you. It's people like you and PhilBB that are ruining this forum with your nonsense.

I just thought that it was appropriate to mention it as it was the same subject as we were talking about on here.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 19:12

True Raven wrote:If the Scarlets management havent had discussions with the WRU (just speculation) regarding Ken Owens, Liam Williams, Rob Evans, Gareth Davies e.t.c being on NDC or decided to offer them contracts without the help of the WRU then they're the ones at fault for not using the WRU's finances wisely.

You must be mistaken. Wayne is quite adamant that Gatland decides who gets an NDC and that the regions don't go to the WRU making requests. Apparently, 'to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous'.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 19:14

True Raven wrote:Out of the 9 NDC the only two who should not be on there are Baker and Thornton as I can understand the other regions frustations why their young players havent been signed up (especially as Baker and Thornton are no where near Wales first team)

The other 7 I have no problem with as they are all members of WG wales squad. If the Scarlets management havent had discussions with the WRU (just speculation) regarding Ken Owens, Liam Williams, Rob Evans, Gareth Davies e.t.c being on NDC or decided to offer them contracts without the help of the WRU then they're the ones at fault for not using the WRU's finances wisely.

You can add King too, he doesn't really fit into the Wales first team yet we have to see him picked just because of his contract Headscratch

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by True Raven Thu 19 May - 19:15

I could be completely wrong but I thought the regions went to the WRU when entering into negotiations with a player and WG had the final say on whether he wanted then signed up

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 19:17

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:So Gareth Davies says something and LD believes him

No, FFS, what is the matter with you ? Take that bag of spuds off your shoulder will you. It's people like you and PhilBB that are ruining this forum with your nonsense.

I just thought that it was appropriate to mention it as it was the same subject as we were talking about on here.

Oh the audacity of this accusation! No it isn't. It's you with your click bait and inability to debate - even the Irish and English have told you so take the hint and take your WOL trash elsewhere. Pathetic.

by True Raven Thu 19 May - 19:17

mikey_dragon wrote:
True Raven wrote:Out of the 9 NDC the only two who should not be on there are Baker and Thornton as I can understand the other regions frustations why their young players havent been signed up (especially as Baker and Thornton are no where near Wales first team)

The other 7 I have no problem with as they are all members of WG wales squad. If the Scarlets management havent had discussions with the WRU (just speculation) regarding Ken Owens, Liam Williams, Rob Evans, Gareth Davies e.t.c being on NDC or decided to offer them contracts without the help of the WRU then they're the ones at fault for not using the WRU's finances wisely.

You can add King too, he doesn't really fit into the Wales first team yet we have to see him picked just because of his contract .

He's in the squad though and will be for the foreseeable future like anscombe, amos, ball

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 19:19

True Raven wrote:I could be completely wrong but I thought the regions went to the WRU when entering into negotiations with a player and WG had the final say on whether he wanted then signed up

That's what I thought too, but when I suggested it, I got this as a reply:

wayne wrote:Are you really being serious? Why don't the other Regions go to Gatland and offer up 4 names for DCs, you like ourselves would be laughed out of Westgate Street.
He picks who he wants, NOT the other way round.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 19:21

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh the audacity of this accusation! No it isn't. It's you with your click bait and inability to debate - even the Irish and English have told you so take the hint and take your WOL trash elsewhere. Pathetic.

Coming from a previously banned member, and somebody who had to change their username.

Hmmmmm..... I think we should leave it there now don't you ? Let's not de-rail the topic.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 19:26

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Oh the audacity of this accusation! No it isn't. It's you with your click bait and inability to debate - even the Irish and English have told you so take the hint and take your WOL trash elsewhere. Pathetic.

Coming from a previously banned member, and somebody who had to change their username.

Hmmmmm..... I think we should leave it there now don't you ? Let's not de-rail the topic.

Hmmm, I think that would have to be an accusation you can prove? Where-as your click bait sh*t is infested all over this forum so that's pretty easy to prove. Just get out of here and take your regurgitated, sh**ty posts with you as we're all tired of reading them. Pathetic.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 19:29

True Raven wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
True Raven wrote:Out of the 9 NDC the only two who should not be on there are Baker and Thornton as I can understand the other regions frustations why their young players havent been signed up (especially as Baker and Thornton are no where near Wales first team)

The other 7 I have no problem with as they are all members of WG wales squad. If the Scarlets management havent had discussions with the WRU (just speculation) regarding Ken Owens, Liam Williams, Rob Evans, Gareth Davies e.t.c being on NDC or decided to offer them contracts without the help of the WRU then they're the ones at fault for not using the WRU's finances wisely.

You can add King too, he doesn't really fit into the Wales first team yet we have to see him picked just because of his contract .

He's in the squad though and will be for the foreseeable future like anscombe, amos, ball

Why will he though? Ball and Davies offer much better cover at lock, and it seems we're becoming well stocked in the back-row even with Tipuric out he should struggle to make the squad. Him, Rhodri Jones and said players should not have been offered the contract - the money would have been better spent elsewhere. If the WRU chairmen claims that they aren't favouring Ospreys then what legs does he have to stand on? The proof is right here.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 19:30

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You must be mistaken. Wayne is quite adamant that Gatland decides who gets an NDC and that the regions don't go to the WRU making requests. Apparently, 'to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous'.

LP, I think it is ultimately down to the player as well. Didn't Dan Lydiate have the offer to go back to Dragons but chose Ospreys ?

If a player is going to chose a region, and a region has a chance of getting a Welsh international for half the price, you cannot blame them for taking it with both hands.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 19:32

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You must be mistaken. Wayne is quite adamant that Gatland decides who gets an NDC and that the regions don't go to the WRU making requests. Apparently, 'to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous'.

LP, I think it is ultimately down to the player as well. Didn't Dan Lydiate have the offer to go back to Dragons but chose Ospreys ?

If a player is going to chose a region, and a region has a chance of getting a Welsh international for half the price, you cannot blame them for taking it with both hands.

I think you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure the regions go to the WRU and put forward players they think should get NDCs, and the WRU either agree or dismiss it. In that case, the Ospreys are just better / cheekier than the other three. But I got shouted down for even suggesting that that's how it works.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 19:34

Funny that LD recently complained about his regurgitated article being reported, yet he's just reported my comment because I told him the truth about his posts and behaviour. Just when you thought our V2 jester couldn't be any more of a hypocrite picard

.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 19:40

I reported it, Mikey. It's not for you to decide what posters are welcome here.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 19:41

mikey_dragon wrote:Funny that LD recently complained about his regurgitated article being reported, yet he's just reported my comment because I told him the truth about his posts and behaviour. Just when you thought our V2 jester couldn't be any more of a hypocrite .

mikey, I have not reported anyone. I really haven't. Please stop aggressively attacking me on here, it is spoiling the forum for others. If you have been reported then it must be from somebody else who is fed up with your nonsense.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 19:50

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure the regions go to the WRU and put forward players they think should get NDCs, and the WRU either agree or dismiss it. In that case, the Ospreys are just better / cheekier than the other three. But I got shouted down for even suggesting that that's how it works.

Is that how it works LP ? Seriously, I was not aware of that. What about players who come back to Wales, is that more down to the players choice if all four regions are willing to stump up their 40% of the contract ?

Ospreys have 9 players on NDC's. Two of them are returnees so to speak. There are 4 Welsh internationals so we can give them that, but the three dodgy one's I would say are Baker, King and Thornton. I suppose a case could be made of Ospreys "convincing" the WRU to stump up NDC's for those three. But the same could be said for Hallam Amos and Tyler Morgan as they were not WI when they were signed on NDC's.

The dodgiest NDC's I see are Gareth Anscombe, who the WRU touted for Cardiff Blues, and Sam Warburton, who's contract was initially fully paid by the WRU. I do not know if it still is though.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 19 May - 19:56

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure the regions go to the WRU and put forward players they think should get NDCs, and the WRU either agree or dismiss it. In that case, the Ospreys are just better / cheekier than the other three. But I got shouted down for even suggesting that that's how it works.

Is that how it works LP ? Seriously, I was not aware of that. What about players who come back to Wales, is that more down to the players choice if all four regions are willing to stump up their 40% of the contract ?

Ospreys have 9 players on NDC's. Two of them are returnees so to speak. There are 4 Welsh internationals so we can give them that, but the three dodgy one's I would say are Baker, King and Thornton. I suppose a case could be made of Ospreys "convincing" the WRU to stump up NDC's for those three. But the same could be said for Hallam Amos and Tyler Morgan as they were not WI when they were signed on NDC's.

The dodgiest NDC's I see are Gareth Anscombe, who the WRU touted for Cardiff Blues, and Sam Warburton, who's contract was initially fully paid by the WRU. I do not know if it still is though.

I would say in hindsight the NDCs for Rhodri Jones and Scott Williams would need to be classed as the worst given out to date, between them they must have just snuck the double digits for matches played, and probably no more than 3 hours game time in total. I appreciate that is down to injury and being completely out of form, but for value for money those two would be pretty poor.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 19:59

Bit unfair on Scott Williams, SS. He was an established Welsh international when he was offered one. Rhodri Jones I would agree with you on, but I think he was given one as we were in short supply of players in his position at the time and Gatland just wanted to keep him here.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 20:01

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure the regions go to the WRU and put forward players they think should get NDCs, and the WRU either agree or dismiss it. In that case, the Ospreys are just better / cheekier than the other three. But I got shouted down for even suggesting that that's how it works.

Is that how it works LP?

That's how I imagine it works, but I don't claim to know for certain.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 20:07

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure the regions go to the WRU and put forward players they think should get NDCs, and the WRU either agree or dismiss it. In that case, the Ospreys are just better / cheekier than the other three. But I got shouted down for even suggesting that that's how it works.

Is that how it works LP?

That's how I imagine it works, but I don't claim to know for certain.

I think the only one's you could have a point on that score though are Baker, King and Thornton, they are on NDC's and they are nowhere near the Welsh squad. But the same could be said for the two at Dragons, at the time they were given NDC's they were nowhere near the Welsh squad either.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 20:08

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I reported it, Mikey. It's not for you to decide what posters are welcome here.

You've just found yourself unwelcome here thumbsup

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by ScarletSpiderman Thu 19 May - 20:10

LordDowlais wrote:Bit unfair on Scott Williams, SS. He was an established Welsh international when he was offered one. Rhodri Jones I would agree with you on, but I think he was given one as we were in short supply of players in his position at the time and Gatland just wanted to keep him here.

I meant from a financial point of view. Neither of them have had much game time at all. They both were regular match day squad members when they were given their contracts, Scott will come back and be involved pretty heavily again IMO, and Rhodri is back in the Wales squad for the summer. But from a £ per minute on the pitch point of view both of those were a undoubtedly the worst NDCs given to date.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 20:11

The other thing I don't quite understand is that the NDCs (as far as I was aware) were supposed to be about keeping players in Wales, but how likely is it that some of the players on NDCs - King, Rhodri Jones, Tyler Morgan - would be offered contracts from English and French clubs? And if they were supposed to be about keeping players in Wales, why are they now being used to bring players back?

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 20:12

RE Morgan and Amos - I think the reason they were put on NDCs were to manage their playing career and bump up their wages so they wouldn't be tempted by any Franglo teams, and you can bet they were circling around them like vultures. It's good that they were signed up though because Wales called upon them. I also believe that they should have had more game time. Amos is clearly better than Cuthbert and James; Morgan is better than JD2.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 20:12

mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I reported it, Mikey. It's not for you to decide what posters are welcome here.

You've just found yourself unwelcome here .

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't speak for anyone but yourself.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 20:14

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I reported it, Mikey. It's not for you to decide what posters are welcome here.

You've just found yourself unwelcome here .

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't speak for anyone but yourself.

See you later then 'sunshine.' #NotWelcome

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 20:18

This isn't Twitter, sunshine.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 20:20

mikey_dragon wrote:RE Morgan and Amos - I think the reason they were put on NDCs were to manage their playing career and bump up their wages so they wouldn't be tempted by any Franglo teams

That's fair enough, and a good reason for doing it, as they are showing massive signs of potential, but that same argument could have been raised for Baker, King and Thorton, so it is unfair to have a go at Ospreys.

mikey_dragon wrote:Amos is clearly better than Cuthbert and James

Yes, I agree 100%.

mikey_dragon wrote: Morgan is better than JD2.

No chance. He is not even in the same level as him, not yet anyway. He might end up being better, but he is nowhere near Jonathan Davies yet.

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 20:26

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:RE Morgan and Amos - I think the reason they were put on NDCs were to manage their playing career and bump up their wages so they wouldn't be tempted by any Franglo teams

That's fair enough, and a good reason for doing it, as they are showing massive signs of potential, but that same argument could have been raised for Baker, King and Thorton, so it is unfair to have a go at Ospreys.

mikey_dragon wrote:Amos is clearly better than Cuthbert and James

Yes, I agree 100%.

mikey_dragon wrote: Morgan is better than JD2.

No chance. He is not even in the same level as him, not yet anyway. He might end up being better, but he is nowhere near Jonathan Davies yet.

Well it could be said for the Ospreys players, and it couldn't. It was more likely that Morgan and Amos would be playing for Wales - I didn't think the same of Thornton or King. They give one out to Baker too soon but he's probably one for the future.

That's more my opinion on JD2, but I just don't see what others see in him. He still can't pass that well after all these years and has gone backward since 2013. Roberts works a lot better with Williams or Morgan. I think JD2 should go back to playing 12, his strengths aren't well utilised in the wider channel, where-as we've recently seen that Scott Williams is better out wide.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 20:40

mikey_dragon wrote:Well it could be said for the Ospreys players, and it couldn't. It was more likely that Morgan and Amos would be playing for Wales - I didn't think the same of Thornton or King. They give one out to Baker too soon but he's probably one for the future.

Wasn't Thornton the Wales U20's captain ? If so then I would suggest he falls in the one for the future category. King is decent, but he is nowhere near Wales yet.

mikey_dragon wrote:I think JD2 should go back to playing 12, his strengths aren't well utilised in the wider channel, where-as we've recently seen that Scott Williams is better out wide.

I would put Scott Williams ahead of JD at the moment, but Morgan is behind the two of them, he needs to fight it out with the injury waiting to happen that is Cory Allen for the next best.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 20:42

LordDowlais wrote:
The dodgiest NDC's I see are Gareth Anscombe, who the WRU touted for Cardiff Blues, and Sam Warburton, who's contract was initially fully paid by the WRU. I do not know if it still is though.

Are you being serious?

Warburton was the first to sign a NDC.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 20:44

mikey_dragon wrote:RE Morgan and Amos - I think the reason they were put on NDCs were to manage their playing career and bump up their wages so they wouldn't be tempted by any Franglo teams, and you can bet they were circling around them like vultures. It's good that they were signed up though because Wales called upon them. I also believe that they should have had more game time. Amos is clearly better than Cuthbert and James; Morgan is better than JD2.

Wow. Really? Amos has huge potential but isn't up there just yet, neither is Morgan.

Both should be playing for the Os. That is the way they will improve.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 20:48

PhilBB wrote:Warburton was the first to sign a NDC.

Yes. Fully paid wasn't it ? Not 60/40. Is that still the case ?

EDIT:-

Actually yes it is, the WRU pay ALL of Sam Warburton's contract, it is not 60/40 like everybody else.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/25/wales-sam-warburton-welsh-rugby-union-central-contract

The WRU will pay the 25-year-old Lions flanker £270,000 a year until the end of the next Lions tour – to New Zealand in 2017. The deal guarantees Warburton an income but not selection for Wales. It also releases him back to, Cardiff Blues, the region that will employ him until the end of the season.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 20:53

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Warburton was the first to sign a NDC.

Yes. Fully paid wasn't it ? Not 60/40. Is that still the case ?

EDIT:-

Actually yes it is, the WRU pay ALL of Sam Warburton's contract, it is not 60/40 like everybody else.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/25/wales-sam-warburton-welsh-rugby-union-central-contract

The WRU will pay the 25-year-old Lions flanker £270,000 a year until the end of the next Lions tour – to New Zealand in 2017. The deal guarantees Warburton an income but not selection for Wales. It also releases him back to, Cardiff Blues, the region that will employ him until the end of the season.

I'll give you a chance to Google again. You should take it.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 21:00

PhilBB wrote:I'll give you a chance to Google again. You should take it.

Why, has it changed ?

Also, are Cardiff Blues paying anything towards Anscombe's wages ?

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 21:00

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:RE Morgan and Amos - I think the reason they were put on NDCs were to manage their playing career and bump up their wages so they wouldn't be tempted by any Franglo teams, and you can bet they were circling around them like vultures. It's good that they were signed up though because Wales called upon them. I also believe that they should have had more game time. Amos is clearly better than Cuthbert and James; Morgan is better than JD2.

Wow. Really? Amos has huge potential but isn't up there just yet, neither is Morgan.

Both should be playing for the Os. That is the way they will improve.

Yes, sorry to burst your Tom James bubble, but when he was picked I said that I don't believe anything has changed from a few years ago. It turns out I was right - good club player at best for me. Cuthbert is just awful.

I don't see how? Before the excuse was that they'll improve by playing champions cup rugby with the Ospreys - well that one is now out the window. I also think the fact that Faletau is rated as one the best No.8s in the world whilst his entire playing career has been at the Dragons shows that this is incorrect. Dan Evans, Dan Lydiate, Richard Fussell - neither of them have gone there and improved. It's fine if that is your opinion, I just think there's evidence to show that's incorrect on this occasion thumbsup

.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 21:04

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I'll give you a chance to Google again. You should take it.

Why, has it changed ?

Also, are Cardiff Blues paying anything towards Anscombe's wages ?

As I told you above: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/29305689

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 21:04

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Well it could be said for the Ospreys players, and it couldn't. It was more likely that Morgan and Amos would be playing for Wales - I didn't think the same of Thornton or King. They give one out to Baker too soon but he's probably one for the future.

Wasn't Thornton the Wales U20's captain ? If so then I would suggest he falls in the one for the future category. King is decent, but he is nowhere near Wales yet.

Yes. He sure is one for the future, however at lock we had and still have most of the following: AWJ, Charteris, Day, Ball, Davies. I also think Adam Beard, his former 2nd row partner, has greater potential. I just thought it was a bit strange because he wasn't much of an Ospreys regular either.[/quote]

by mikey_dragon Thu 19 May - 21:07

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I'll give you a chance to Google again. You should take it.

Why, has it changed ?

Also, are Cardiff Blues paying anything towards Anscombe's wages ?

As I told you above: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/29305689

Sam was also the first (and only) to sign a central contract? Under previous T&Cs this meant that Sam wouldn't play for any of the regions. It was when RRW and WRU agreed to new T&Cs that it became a dual contract.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 21:07

mikey_dragon wrote:
Yes, sorry to burst your Tom James bubble, but when he was picked I said that I don't believe anything has changed from a few years ago. It turns out I was right - good club player at best for me. Cuthbert is just awful.

I don't see how? Before the excuse was that they'll improve by playing champions cup rugby with the Ospreys - well that one is now out the window. I also think the fact that Faletau is rated as one the best No.8s in the world whilst his entire playing career has been at the Dragons shows that this is incorrect. Dan Evans, Dan Lydiate, Richard Fussell - neither of them have gone there and improved. It's fine if that is your opinion, I just think there's evidence to show that's incorrect on this occasion .

I take your view on TJ and think that you're probably right, but there's not much shown from Amos to yet suggest he is better right now. Cuthbert is an odd player that I can't fathom. He was very good right up until that first Lions test.

They would both improve at the Os by the osmosis of being surrounded by better players who have higher standards. They would not be the players the team relies on, as they are in Newport.

Faletau is a case that I think proves that point. His game hasn't progressed in the last couple of years, to the point where Jones didn't even pick him for the knock out game against Cardiff. He hasn't kicked on in his game.

I don't want the same for Morgan and Amos. Players improve by being around better players, it's just part of being a human.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 May - 21:18

mikey_dragon wrote:Sam was also the first (and only) to sign a central contract? Under previous T&Cs this meant that Sam wouldn't play for any of the regions. It was when RRW and WRU agreed to new T&Cs that it became a dual contract.

Exactly, thus why it is such a dodgy situation. Also, with Anscombe the WRU went and got him for Cardiff Blues. This is why I thing these two NDC players are the most dodgy one's.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May - 21:20

I feel sorry for Cuthbert. He gets pilloried for being poor defensively / under the high ball, but this isn't anything new with him. He's always been more or less just a finisher. Put him in space and he's still pretty good (assuming he doesn't fumble the pass). It doesn't help that Gatland - or is it Howley? - seems to think that selecting an out-of-form player will help them find form, when they might be better off selecting a player who's already in form, allowing the out-of-form player to go and find form for their club / region.

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 21:24

[quote="LordDowlais"]

mikey_dragon wrote:
Exactly, thus why it is such a dodgy situation. Also, with Anscombe the WRU went and got him for Cardiff Blues. This is why I thing these two NDC players are the most dodgy one's.

Just to clarify, you see the Captain of Wales, and present Captain of the British and Irish Lions, as a 'dodgy' choice for a National Dual Contract?

The same man who has publicly stated his body can't take more than about 20 games a season.

Yes?

by PhilBB Thu 19 May - 21:27

LordDowlais wrote:Also, with Anscombe the WRU went and got him for Cardiff Blues.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/gareth-anscombes-move-cardiff-blues-7499402

?[/quote]

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