Saxons Tour to SA

"Ritchie did confirm the Saxons, effectively England’s B team, will tour South Africa this summer, while the seniors are in Australia. This particular tour will have an under-23 emphasis to it and will comprise two matches against the Emerging Springboks."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/22/joe-marler-gypsy-boy-england-wales-rfu-ian-ritchie-six-nations

Only 2 games, so probably not many more than 28 players, but who will be the coaching team? Not sure if Callard will be at JWC with Haag, and his track record is far from impressive (as a coach).

Previous U20 coaches such as Rob Hunter, Nick Walshe and Ian Peel might take a pre-season sabbatical to reunite with their former players in the U23 category.

Would Rob Baxter abandon Exeter for 3 or 4 weeks as he did for the Argentine tour in 2013?

Which would take priority for the likes of Harry Mallinder, Sam Underhill, Brophy-Clews et al - JWC or Saxons?

Not being English, it should be the guys not able to play u20s anymore and who have a hope of making the England squad in the next 2-3 years. Players like Beaumont, Simpson, Lahiff, Fraser, Trinder, Yarde, Devoto, Hill. Guys who, if they are not going to Aus, may be expected to step up in the near future along with some who have played but have fallen out of favour. I may try and build you a squad later on when I am not at work.

That's odd. Why don't the Saxons just tour Australia like the senior team?

I'm assuming that the Emerging Springboks are SAs named 2nd team? Could be a way to tie in Underhil et al while using the Aus tour as developing the immeidate squad?

I don't think Australia have an 'A' side like the Saxons/Wolfhounds/Emerging Springboks

I agree with HS, anyone eligible for u20s should go there, and this should be the same set up as a standard Saxons squad, with a couple of senior ish guys there too

Something like this would be a half decent starting XV :

Waller, Taylor, Sinckler, Barrow, Ewels, Wallace, Fraser, Wood (c), Robson, Burns, Wade, Stephenson, Trinder, Walker, Miller

BamBam wrote:I don't think Australia have an 'A' side like the Saxons/Wolfhounds/Emerging Springboks

I agree with HS, anyone eligible for u20s should go there, and this should be the same set up as a standard Saxons squad, with a couple of senior ish guys there too

Something like this would be a half decent starting XV :

Waller, Taylor, Sinckler, Barrow, Ewels, Wallace, Fraser, Wood (c), Robson, Burns, Wade, Stephenson, Trinder, Walker, Miller

That's a pretty decent squad - though the South African backs would have a field day running down the wings given neither Wade nor Walker can tackle...

Sticking to U23's (those eligible for 2013-15 20's squads)

Hepburn, Auterac
Walker, Spurling
Sinckler, Wilson
Stooke, Ewels, J.Hill, Barrow
Hankin, Jones, Sisi. Chisholm
Braley, Townsend
Burns, Hooley
Hill, Devoto, Stephenson, Tompkins
Howard, Packman, Earle, Purdy, Morris

Probably missed a few, but there's plenty of inexperience there. Some have been selected on reputation, since I've lost track of their progress.

I'd hope that there'd be "overage" players in the back 3 and halfbacks at least, plus some old boys to mentor/coach eg Parling, Pennell. Cipriani as skipper could be interesting.

Not sure if Hepburn is EQP - he broke his England residency by returning to Qz and i don't know if he has English parentage.

Excludes Clifford, LCD, Slade, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Itoje, P.Hill who are likely to be in Qz.

Starting XV with few U23's

Hepburn, Taylor, S.Wilson
Ewels, Parling
Sisi, Morgan, Kvesic
Robson, Cipriani
Hill, Devoto
Wade, Yarde
Pennell

I would already put Harry Mallinder ahead of Devoto unless you are looking for 10 cover. He can do everything Devoto can do to a better standard as well as cover wing. I would also have Haywood and Harrison in the mix. Haywood was keeping the current England captain out of the Saints side at the start of the season and Harrison has been consistently very good. and are only 24 and 23 respectively.

I'd put Sloan in there as a 12, different to the rest and learning very well from Roberts.

Also im surprised every one has forgotten Synckler!!

Harry Mallinder, and others who missed 6N, will probably be needed for JWC - don't want two successive failures at home World Cups within a year. I'm reserving judgement on Devoto till i see him in the Exeter 13 shirt - he's no 10, but he was called up to the 6N squad so he must be favoured.

Haywood is certainly a contender, but hooker is one of those positions that we have a good idea about Eddie's pecking order - Dylan, George, LCD, Taylor with perhaps Tom Youngs in the mix when fit.

Less convinced about Harrison, and there's other young flankers who should be in contention - Wallace and Fraser have been mentioned above, but Kvesic probably deserves another opportunity.

I feel Sloan hasn't really kicked on yet, and Sam Hill is my choice for 12 all day long. Stephenson and Tompkins seem to have had the most potential from age grade, but I haven't seen much of them (or Sloan) in the Prem.

Sinckler is coming along, and was an outrageous talent in the loose, but I suspect Eddie might favour Scott Wilson as the young tighthead after Paul Hill. Harry Williams at Exeter is also impressing me.

Synckler is the best prop prospect around, brings far more X factor to the position then any other option. He's bigger, more physical and more powerful then the rest.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Sticking to U23's (those eligible for 2013-15 20's squads)

Hepburn, Auterac
Walker, Spurling
Sinckler, Wilson
Stooke, Ewels, J.Hill, Barrow
Hankin, Jones, Sisi. Chisholm
Braley, Townsend
Burns, Hooley
Hill, Devoto, Stephenson, Tompkins
Howard, Packman, Earle, Purdy, Morris

Probably missed a few, but there's plenty of inexperience there. Some have been selected on reputation, since I've lost track of their progress.

I'd hope that there'd be "overage" players in the back 3 and halfbacks at least, plus some old boys to mentor/coach eg Parling, Pennell. Cipriani as skipper could be interesting.

Not sure if Hepburn is EQP - he broke his England residency by returning to Qz and i don't know if he has English parentage.

Excludes Clifford, LCD, Slade, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Itoje, P.Hill who are likely to be in Qz.

Starting XV with few U23's

Hepburn, Taylor, S.Wilson
Ewels, Parling
Sisi, Morgan, Kvesic
Robson, Cipriani
Hill, Devoto
Wade, Yarde
Pennell

Might a side like that face Wales first though, on the 29th May?

yappysnap wrote:
Also im surprised every one has forgotten Synckler!!

Never heard of him.

Kyle Sinckler though was a bright prospect who seems to have gone backwards at a rate of knots.

Dunno, but 7 of that team are in the frame to be Prem semi-finalists, so unlikely to play on 29th. Bath players should be available though, so add in the likes of H.Thomas, Attwood, Ford, Eastmond, Joseph, Watson, Roko.
Then add in players from (probably) any 2 of Exe, Sarries, Wasps, Tiggers, Saints or Quins.
Then subtract those not recovered from injury, and those injured between now and then.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:
Also im surprised every one has forgotten Synckler!!

Never heard of him.

Kyle Sinckler though was a bright prospect who seems to have gone backwards at a rate of knots.

Pedant.

While the club around him have gone backwards I'd say he's still doing well. Well enough to be in the frame because of the extra dynamism he brings.

How about:

Auturac
Taylor
Cooper-Wooley
Kitchener
Ewels
Wallace
Harrison
Morgan
Robson
Burns
Short
Devoto
James
Lewington
Miller

Haywood
Hepburn
Sinkler
Barrow
Fraser
Steele
Lozowski
Addison

That was surprisingly easy, and I'd like to watch this side. It might not been u23 enough though. I expect Wade will figure.

Any prospect of a mach with Namibia, Zimbabwe or Kenya during that tour?

mikey_dragon wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Sticking to U23's (those eligible for 2013-15 20's squads)

Hepburn, Auterac
Walker, Spurling
Sinckler, Wilson
Stooke, Ewels, J.Hill, Barrow
Hankin, Jones, Sisi. Chisholm
Braley, Townsend
Burns, Hooley
Hill, Devoto, Stephenson, Tompkins
Howard, Packman, Earle, Purdy, Morris

Probably missed a few, but there's plenty of inexperience there. Some have been selected on reputation, since I've lost track of their progress.

I'd hope that there'd be "overage" players in the back 3 and halfbacks at least, plus some old boys to mentor/coach eg Parling, Pennell. Cipriani as skipper could be interesting.

Not sure if Hepburn is EQP - he broke his England residency by returning to Qz and i don't know if he has English parentage.

Excludes Clifford, LCD, Slade, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Itoje, P.Hill who are likely to be in Qz.

Starting XV with few U23's

Hepburn, Taylor, S.Wilson
Ewels, Parling
Sisi, Morgan, Kvesic
Robson, Cipriani
Hill, Devoto
Wade, Yarde
Pennell

Might a side like that face Wales first though, on the 29th May?

More likely going to be a mix of first teamers, fringe players and the team listed above.


Assuming all player from the top four teams are out, I would curretntly suggest a side like:

01. Joe Marler (Ban permitting)
02. Tommy Taylor (I guess, both first choice are injured/ in thop 4)
03. Kieran Brookes
04.
05.
06. Chris Robshaw
07. Jack Clifford
08. Josh Beaumont

09.
10. George Ford

11.
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Luther Burrell
14. Marland Yarde
15. Mike Brown

Not sure about the gaps.

Cumbrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Sticking to U23's (those eligible for 2013-15 20's squads)

Hepburn, Auterac
Walker, Spurling
Sinckler, Wilson
Stooke, Ewels, J.Hill, Barrow
Hankin, Jones, Sisi. Chisholm
Braley, Townsend
Burns, Hooley
Hill, Devoto, Stephenson, Tompkins
Howard, Packman, Earle, Purdy, Morris

Probably missed a few, but there's plenty of inexperience there. Some have been selected on reputation, since I've lost track of their progress.

I'd hope that there'd be "overage" players in the back 3 and halfbacks at least, plus some old boys to mentor/coach eg Parling, Pennell. Cipriani as skipper could be interesting.

Not sure if Hepburn is EQP - he broke his England residency by returning to Qz and i don't know if he has English parentage.

Excludes Clifford, LCD, Slade, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Itoje, P.Hill who are likely to be in Qz.

Starting XV with few U23's

Hepburn, Taylor, S.Wilson
Ewels, Parling
Sisi, Morgan, Kvesic
Robson, Cipriani
Hill, Devoto
Wade, Yarde
Pennell

Might a side like that face Wales first though, on the 29th May?

More likely going to be a mix of first teamers, fringe players and the team listed above.


Assuming all player from the top four teams are out, I would curretntly suggest a side like:

01. Joe Marler (Ban permitting)
02. Tommy Taylor (I guess, both first choice are injured/ in thop 4)
03. Kieran Brookes
04.
05.
06. Chris Robshaw
07. Jack Clifford
08. Josh Beaumont

09.
10. George Ford

11.
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Luther Burrell
14. Marland Yarde
15. Mike Brown

Not sure about the gaps.

4/5 - Lawes, Twomey ... Robinson?!
9 - Care, Cook, Dickson
11. Roko, May, Collins, Walker

I would give priority to the England tour to Australia and the JWC. This Saxons tour should be the best of the rest.

1.Mullan 2.Taylor 3.Thomas 4.Kitchener 5.Slater 6.Ewers 7.Kvesic 8.Beaumont 9.Robson 10.Cipriani 11.Yarde 12.Hill 13.Burrell 14.Rokodiguni 15.Goode

Something like that.

Great way to tie Underhill in if he isn't touring to Aus as expected.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Great way to tie Underhill in if he isn't touring to Aus as expected.

I'm not sure that's a major consideration, though. Underhill either wants to play for England or he wants to keep his options open, and if the latter he's evidently smart and independent-minded enough not to make the mistake that Stephen Shingler did of playing for a senior representative team before he's ready. Doesn't look to me like he will be short of offers.

I suspect he does want to play, and I suspect that Eddie will either do his absolute damnedest to take him to Australia and phase him in as he has done with Hill and Clifford. But he may just let him alone until he thinks he's ready to come into the fold.

It's not impossible that Underhill might look at qualifying for Wales but it's highly unlikely. He has also played 9 times for the England U18 team.

I have no idea if being in Wales in university term time (plus whatever he is doing to maintain his commitments to the Ospreys) is enough to count as residency anyway, but its an interesting question.

BamBam wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Sticking to U23's (those eligible for 2013-15 20's squads)

Hepburn, Auterac
Walker, Spurling
Sinckler, Wilson
Stooke, Ewels, J.Hill, Barrow
Hankin, Jones, Sisi. Chisholm
Braley, Townsend
Burns, Hooley
Hill, Devoto, Stephenson, Tompkins
Howard, Packman, Earle, Purdy, Morris

Probably missed a few, but there's plenty of inexperience there. Some have been selected on reputation, since I've lost track of their progress.

I'd hope that there'd be "overage" players in the back 3 and halfbacks at least, plus some old boys to mentor/coach eg Parling, Pennell. Cipriani as skipper could be interesting.

Not sure if Hepburn is EQP - he broke his England residency by returning to Qz and i don't know if he has English parentage.

Excludes Clifford, LCD, Slade, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Itoje, P.Hill who are likely to be in Qz.

Starting XV with few U23's

Hepburn, Taylor, S.Wilson
Ewels, Parling
Sisi, Morgan, Kvesic
Robson, Cipriani
Hill, Devoto
Wade, Yarde
Pennell

Might a side like that face Wales first though, on the 29th May?

More likely going to be a mix of first teamers, fringe players and the team listed above.


Assuming all player from the top four teams are out, I would curretntly suggest a side like:

01. Joe Marler (Ban permitting)
02. Tommy Taylor (I guess, both first choice are injured/ in thop 4)
03. Kieran Brookes
04.
05.
06. Chris Robshaw
07. Jack Clifford
08. Josh Beaumont

09.
10. George Ford

11.
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Luther Burrell
14. Marland Yarde
15. Mike Brown

Not sure about the gaps.

4/5 - Lawes, Twomey ... Robinson?!
9 - Care, Cook, Dickson
11. Roko, May, Collins, Walker

It looks like a good team. We could be without the Scarlets players should they make the final. I guess some of the France and England based players won't be available either.

[quote="lostinwales"]It's not impossible that Underhill might look at qualifying for Wales but it's highly unlikely. He has also played 9 times for the England U18 team.

I have no idea if being in Wales in university term time (plus whatever he is doing to maintain his commitments to the Ospreys) is enough to count as residency anyway, but its an interesting question.[/]

Lostinwales, he would qualify for Wales at the end of his university course but can't see him choosing to play for Wales. Realistically , the only chance he would play for us is if he was completely off England's radar and with Richard hill being a regular at the Liberty stadium that's not the case. Quite frankly he's a superb talent, and in my opinion better than what I've seen of Clifford and Kvesic (albeit not a lot)