2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

[CaledonianCraig]

First topic message reminder :

The Crucible opens its doors to snookers greatest players on the planet for 17 days but who will end it holding the world crown?

The tournament (as is tradition) starts with the champion opening proceedings and Bingham is having early problems trailing Ali Carter 3-1. On the other table Marco Fu is in command against former champion Peter Ebdon leading 5-1.

Discuss.....

[CaledonianCraig]

Another big break from McManus and he leads 2-1.

[CaledonianCraig]

Fu coasting at 4-0 at the mid-session interval. The Hawk yet to take off.

[CaledonianCraig]

A more tactical frame but McManus calling the shots and leads 3-1.

[Guest]

Fu coasting at 4-0 at the mid-session interval. The Hawk yet to take off.

frustrating to see someone overcome Ronnie, then silently exit the tournament in the next round. still early days though

[Tattie Scones RRN]

I have to say, McManus is looking good. Not rushing his shots and putting a bit of thought into it.

[CaledonianCraig]

Hawkins, 5-0 down and on the brink of going 6-0 down, is gifted the sixth frame and trails 5-1. Higgins looking favourite to win the fifth frame and pull it back to 3-2.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Watching that frame was like watching me and my dad on his crappy table.

Both need to get their heads sorted.

[CaledonianCraig]

Marco Fu looks odds-on to go 6-1 up.

[CaledonianCraig]

Fu romping towards the semis as he looks like ending the session with a 7-1 lead.

[CaledonianCraig]

Higgins striking the ball a little better now on a 50+ break and looks good to level the match up at 3-3.

[CaledonianCraig]

McManus level dipping as Higgins' rises and a big break from the four times champion gives him a 4-3 lead.

[Guest]

Fu romping towards the semis as he looks like ending the session with a 7-1 lead.

Just annoys me. I feel for Barry, but this is why I would of preferred Ronnie progressing last night, for the good of the tournament & for the level of snooker produced, kept to a high standard. This has been a poor show from Barry today.

[CaledonianCraig]

Fu romping towards the semis as he looks like ending the session with a 7-1 lead.

Just annoys me. I feel for Barry, but this is why I would of preferred Ronnie progressing last night, for the good of the tournament & for the level of snooker produced, kept to a high standard. This has been a poor show from Barry today.

I would say it has more to do with circumstance. It was pretty tough on Barry to go mentally to the wire with Ronnie (and win) finishing late last night and then be expected to come out and turn it on again just over 12 hours later. Marco Fu on the other hand has had a few days off following his win.

[CaledonianCraig]

John Higgins ends the session leading 5-3 after having trailed 3-1.

[VTR]

Hawkins has absolutely tanked that session, nothing left after last night. I still don't see Fu as a possible winner of the title, strange as that may sound as he has one foot in the semis

[Guest]

Ding 13-3 Williams
Selby 13-8 Wilson
McManus 7-9 Higgins
Hawkins 3-9 Fu

[Guest]

Hawkins 7-10 Fu

[temporary21]

Perhaps we have crucified Barry far too soon here. Hes only two behind now, showing the battling that got him through the rocket.

[Guest]

Make that Hawkins 9-10 Fu

[Guest]

Hawkins 9-12 Fu

[Hammersmith harrier]

It's the hope that kills you.

[VTR]

Angles for the title!

[88Chris05]

Brilliant clearance from Fu to finally see off Hawkins 13-11. Reminiscent of a brilliant pressure clearance he made to go within one of victory when he beat O'Sullivan in the Grand Prix final way back in 2007. Anyway, superb match and credit to Hawkins for almost reeling him in.

Fancied Higgins big time against Angles and think he'll kick himself all the way back up to Wishaw after that. Not sure he'll get a better chance than this to bag a fifth title. That said, what a career revival it's been for McManus (as a side note, for a forty-five year old he hasn't aged much, has he? Higgins is a few years his junior but you'd have thought it was t'other way round).

So, a final four of McManus, Ding, Fu and Selby. Who'd have thought that possible before the tournament? One hasn't been in a Crucible semi for twenty-three years, another for ten, and another of them is a qualifier (albeit he never should have allowed himself to be given his talent) who has a history of underperforming in Sheffield.

Been a funny World Championship, this one. The amount of century breaks, while a decent indicator, is often taken as the be all and end all of 'quality' or 'standard', but for me this tournament feels like one which proves otherwise.

They'll probably end up with more tons than all but two, maybe three of the past tournaments, yet to me this hasn't felt like a tournament of brilliant standards of play, more just a tournament of great excitement and interest. The fellas who have been racking up the tons have often needed two or more chances to get them or have been producing erratic performances which have swayed between the sublime one minute and the awful the next, centuries sandwiched in between missing sitters and playing dire safety.

A lot of the big hitters haven't really shown up. All credit to the guys who have taken advantage of that, of course, and don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the championship as a spectator. Just feel that this year's appeal has laid more in its unpredictability and nail-biting finishes rather than a brilliant standard of play, ala 2002 or 2009.

[VTR]

Good post Chris, can't disagree

To add to the above, I've been thinking this is all looking a bit embarrassing for certain other players now. To see the likes of Angles and Fu in the Semis - there are some of the less players of the Hendry/ROS/Higgins/Williams era still being more than competitive.

The generation of players after that (Allen, Murphy, Maguire etc) have proved to be simply not good enough on a consistent basis and I don't really see a new crop coming through, other than Kyren Wilson who has impressed. There comes a time when you have to say the likes of Brecel, Lisowski, Michael White (who seems to have followed the Stephen Maguire coaching manual of spending all your winnings in Greggs) are not going to amount to much.

Snooker desperately needs two or three new young stars to break through but I just can't see where they are coming from. At this rate the like of ROS and John Higgins will still feel they can win the title well into their 50s. I also wonder if Hendry now regrets retiring

[CaledonianCraig]

First up great result for McManus. His hunger and love of the sport/competition have helped him keep his competitive edge.

As for youngsters coming through then there is Karen Wilson, Sam Baird and perhaps Anthony McGill. Of those Karen Wilson looks most likely to win a world title or two. He has the attitude, pretty solid all-round game and the talent.

[VTR]

Good shouts Craig - though its Kyren Wilson not Karen as I presume your spell checker thinks

Would note that Baird is almost 28 so not as young as the other two, and older than Judd Trump

Trump and Ding are the ones who really should be dominating by now - they are of course not without their successes but have just a single World final between them so far. When the likes of Dott, Ebdon and Bingham have been World Champions that to me is an absolute travesty

[CaledonianCraig]

Snooker is not like a Big Break catchphrase though 'Pot as many balls as you can'. Great potting alone doesn't win world titles - you also need a great match play game as in be street-wise enough when to keep frames tight and not go gung-ho for shots that are foolish attempts. That is Dott/Bingham/Ebdon's strengths and not Trump and Ding's.

[Alistair]

I personally can't see Ding winning this, and I'd go as far as to say neither he, nor Trump will ever win a World Title.

[VTR]

Agreed, but I think Trump when he is focused has a lot more in his locker than just being a great potter, like Mark Williams used to be back in the day.

He has won quite a few titles and is often in the later stages of big tournaments but does seem to lack that edge that makes it possible for him to win on the biggest stage.

I'd never have believed back in 2011 that he wouldn't have won it by now

[VTR]

I personally can't see Ding winning this, and I'd go as far as to say neither he, nor Trump will ever win a World Title.

It does feel a bit now or never for Ding. The draw has opened up for him and there is no-one he should fear left in, but can he really beat a hard match player like Selby in the final as that is looking like what will be required

[Guest]

Some people are saying Ding is playing a lot more "street smart" this tournament.  He seems to having something a bit more about him in terms of match & opponent awareness.

5-1 to Ding at the moment but a long way to go - first to 17 wins.

[VTR]

4 centuries out of the 8 frames played for Ding as he takes a 6-2 lead. Quality play from Ding who will actually be a little disappointed he couldn't get 7-1 or even 8-0 in front playing like that

[CaledonianCraig]

A few things may have aided Ding. He took a few months off to get his mind right, he is back playing with his old cue, less pressure as a qualifier, playing himself into form in the qualifiers and having Terry Griffiths aboard to help with the tactical side of things. The acid test will come if he reaches the final and begins to see the winning line. How will he hold up mentally?

[TRUSSMAN66]

Think Mcmanus at 45 and with several long matches behind him is showing wear..

Expect it to be easy for Ding...

[CaledonianCraig]

Think Mcmanus at 45 and with several long matches behind him is showing wear..

Expect it to be easy for Ding...

I'd say it was inevitable. As you say he is 45 and does play a very intense and drawn out way so matches are never short affairs. Unless he can find form like he did at the end of the Higgins match or unless Ding's level dips I am forced to agree with you.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Like all the great chess champions....When you hit a certain age...focus becomes a problem over long periods...

Mcmanus has done wonderfully well....

[CaledonianCraig]

For tonight's semi that gets underway I reckon Selby will just have too much for Fu. He will, however, have to improve a bit on his performances so far here which I believe he can do as he is the World No.1.

[Guest]

Have they turned down the temperature in the arena. I seem to recall Selby blowing into his hands and rubbing them. McManus looked like his neck and shoulders were locking up when he was playing Higgins.

[CaledonianCraig]

Have they turned down the temperature in the arena.  I seem to recall Selby blowing into his hands and rubbing them.  McManus looked like his neck and shoulders were locking up when he was playing Higgins.

The troublesome table (the one that had all the kicks) had the temperature turned down but don't think that affects the whole arena - only the table itself.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Agreed, but I think Trump when he is focused has a lot more in his locker than just being a great potter, like Mark Williams used to be back in the day.

He has won quite a few titles and is often in the later stages of big tournaments but does seem to lack that edge that makes it possible for him to win on the biggest stage.

I'd never have believed back in 2011 that he wouldn't have won it by now

I don't actually think Trump is anything other than a great potter and certainly doesn't have the nous of Williams in his heyday.

The younger guys are being hamstrung by playing so many short form tournaments and I don't think they have the focus to cope with the pressure over the longer format. The draw has opened up for Ding but be under no illusions that he could do what Hawkins did and beat O'Sullivan because he couldn't have nor could Trump and nor could Robertson.

Selby and Hawkins both have the temperament and ability over longer matches to frustrate Ronnie, both tactically very sound and score heavily enough to capitalize on any mistakes.

I'd go as far as saying that the tournament is now Selby's to lose.

[TRUSSMAN66]

For a jester he's about as charismatic as a bar of soap..

[B.A. BARACUS]

If i was a Marco Fu fan i would feel like putting my foot up his behind by now.

How many chances is he going to spurn....had 4 clear cut opportunities to win the 10th frame and has made a complete mess of frame 11 too.

Fu had a chance of a simple red to the middle to win the frame yet turns it down and plays a safety!!

He has selby on the ropes and showing signs of frustration yet is too weak to take advantage.

Despite all the ravings of the BBC commentary team, its been a poor world championships.

Players like Fu and Mcmanus getting to the latter stages tells you all you need to know.

Having watched snooker since the early 90s and witnessed Hendry in his heyday, if he was in his prime now he'd dominate the current crop of players.

Perhaps Robertson and Ronnie could push him but the rest of them don't seem to have what it takes to dominate like he did.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Virgo wants to stop kissing Mcmanus ass..

[TRUSSMAN66]

Be upset when he loses this match will Alan..

Been there for the taking...

Everything is relative...Be delighted to get this far but gutted to have missed a great chance to reach the final..

Very impressive though..

[Guest]

It's been commented on by Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry and apparently others that the pockets are slightly but significantly bigger.  Balls that would have missed have been identified.  I wonder whether these changes to the table were part of a number of changes that also resulted in the uneven and extra bounces off the cushion reported earlier in this tournament.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/36173957

[B.A. BARACUS]

Pockets are undeniably generous...have witnessed several pots go in that would have stayed out in normal circumstances.

Selby and Fu have picked up where they left off yesterday...errors galore and requiring multiple chances to finish frames off.

Selby has been poor, how on earth he is ahead in this match is baffling.

The top players like Robertson, Ronnie, Trump, Murphy etc must be kicking themselves for going out so early - anyone of the above would've taken this semi by the scruff of the neck by now and finished Selby off.

[TRUSSMAN66]

All top players in any sport have the ability to scrape through on many occasions when playing less than average...

Probably because the other guy feels the pressure more..

Shame because I find Selby pretty dull...Never has a nickname been less suited..

Wanted Fu v Mcmanus. ...with Mcmanus winning.

But likely to have neither..

[temporary21]

This is the worlds, and its a long format. Being able to scrape through and concentrate is just as important as potting.
All the big potters of the game have gone out because they havent shown the needed graft. Mcmanus, Selby and Fu in particular have had that in spades, despite not beig in great form sometimes

[B.A. BARACUS]

Anyone but Selby winning would be a good result....i find him excruciating to watch.

He seems to have perfected a style of play that often bores his opponent (and the viewer) into submission.

Would like to see Ding win it, doesn't faff about when in the balls and scores heavy when given the chance.

Will be interesting to see if he has the mental strength to cope with Selby's grinding tactics should they meet in the final

Mcmanus chances of lifting the crown are slim at best, i don't think he has the game for it but nobody could have guessed he'd have got this far so anything is possible.

Selby has had a very favourable draw in my opinion...he's beat Robert Milkins, Sam Baird and Kyren Wilson to get this far - that is a very weak list of opponents to get to a semi of a world championships.

Not his fault of course as you can only beat what's in front of you but the draw has really opened up for him.

As i write Fu has missed a simple green to win frame 21....no surprise really

[B.A. BARACUS]

This is the worlds, and its a long format. Being able to scrape through and concentrate is just as important as potting.
All the big potters of the game have gone out because they havent shown the needed graft. Mcmanus, Selby and Fu in particular have had that in spades, despite not beig in great form sometimes

yes it's a long format tournament but players like Robertson, Ronnie, Murphy, Higgins, Trump have won multiple titles and excluding Trump all are former world champions.

They know what is required to win this title, the fact they have all gone out early is just inexplicable but occasionally the world championships throws up a bizarre year like this.

Holt and Hawkins played the game of their lives to beat Ronnie and Robertson but could replicate that form in their next matches.

All of the above players are also a lot more than just 'potters' they excel in every part of the game, including temperament and graft.

Basically i just think it's been a turd tournament, the big players have disappointed and we are left with a a pi$$ poor semi like Selby vs Fu where both players are frankly embarrassing.

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