How can Federer beat Nadal at the French Open?

Apart from this year Roger has been the No.2 player on clay in the past 5 to 6 years , so I have identified the key areas Roger could address to take his success to a new level and actually beat his nemesis at the French Open.

Mentality:

Roger is tough. However, to beat Rafael Nadal he needs to be working on a couple of specifics that make him enthusiastic about the task. He needs to totally believe that these alterations will make the difference.

Shots:

The key aspects of Rogers arsenal of firepower are his serve and forehand. The area that needs polishing is his net play (especially the forehand volley and movement at the net) to supplement the big serve and forehand. To beat Nadal on clay he has to come forward and dig up a few really tough volleys and not miss chances to bury points. If he can do this it takes a bit of pressure off his forehand especially when he is in an attacking position, as he will not overplay if he is confident with his volleys.

Physical:

Roger is a natural mover but he has to put in the miles and strength training so he is sure he can match Rafa on clay for the necessary time it will take to beat him.

Footwork:

If Roger is moving well out to wide forehands and rarely having to resort to a squash/sliced forehand, then I know he is both in shape and has done the practice to feel comfortable out wide. At the net is where the main work needs to be done so the leg work supports his great hand skills so his volleys have a bit of extra zip and stability.

Strategy:

I think Roger has to commit to a strategy to beat Rafa and play every match working on improving this. It is tough to just turn it on in a final. The areas that are key are:

Serve and volley one point a game or at a minimum every other service game.

Approach deep down the middle to Rafa’s backhand to negate the angle (early and fast enough so he cannot run round and play the forehand).

Occasionally approach to the backhand and close off the cross-court pass with such intent and aggression that he chops off anything that Rafa hits cross-court. This will become a game of chess as to when Roger covers only the cross and when not, with the middle approach also part of this mix.

Use his down the line backhand to change the pattern of play. When he does go up the line he shouldnt necessarily go for winners, but should use it to change the cross court pattern of play that is Rafas forehand to Rogers backhand that Nadal likes.

What do you think?

Hope Nadal oversleeps and misses the final

sonic_boom10 wrote:Hope Nadal oversleeps and misses the final

yummymummy wrote:

sonic_boom10 wrote:Hope Nadal oversleeps and misses the final

It was a joke...

Fed can beat him by watching as how nole has beaten him in past 4 matches. nadal is not invincible any more, murray was awful on break points.

wow wrote:Fed can beat him by watching as how nole has beaten him in past 4 matches. nadal is not invincible any more, murray was awful on break points.

Novak beats Nadal due to his DHBH.

Federer can't cope with the heavy top spin from Nadal's forehand

sonic_boom10 wrote:

wow wrote:Fed can beat him by watching as how nole has beaten him in past 4 matches. nadal is not invincible any more, murray was awful on break points.

Novak beats Nadal due to his DHBH.

Federer can't cope with the heavy top spin from Nadal's forehand

And also by pushing Nadal towards his backhandside with angled forehands. That fed can do and if he keeps up his first serve and does not shank that bh then there is every chance.

wow wrote:

sonic_boom10 wrote:

wow wrote:Fed can beat him by watching as how nole has beaten him in past 4 matches. nadal is not invincible any more, murray was awful on break points.

Novak beats Nadal due to his DHBH.

Federer can't cope with the heavy top spin from Nadal's forehand

And also by pushing Nadal towards his backhandside with angled forehands. That fed can do and if he keeps up his first serve and does not shank that bh then there is every chance.

I doubt it, he's had 4 chances so far at Roland Garros and failed every time

Federer can exploit some weaknesses in Nadal's game. For example the backhand has been the target of some players. Djokovic has had success with this tactic and as did Murray, altough that didn't change the results.

I think what Nadal has proved in this tournament is that it's not how you start a tournament, it is how you finish it and these last 2 matches his form is getting better and better.

Federer needs to create the angles and opportunities to bring his forehand into play. Nadal will no doubt attack the Federer backhand. That needs to be sharp. I think also Federer needs to come into the net a bit finish off the points he has the advantage on. Vary up his lengths in rallies.

Good article PBF and thanks for writing it.

The one time I've been impressed with Roger's tactics was when he played him in Madrid in 2009. And that started from the minute they left the locker room. Rafa is going to play his old strategies against him because why wouldn't he? I fully expect this to be the tightest match they have ever played in the French Open. And one thought I'm having tonight ... Roger has always relished the thought of taking Rafa on in New York ... and so far its never happened. Ironic if that huge match could be here.

Wooffie wrote:Good article PBF and thanks for writing it.

The one time I've been impressed with Roger's tactics was when he played him in Madrid in 2009. And that started from the minute they left the locker room. Rafa is going to play his old strategies against him because why wouldn't he? I fully expect this to be the tightest match they have ever played in the French Open. And one thought I'm having tonight ... Roger has always relished the thought of taking Rafa on in New York ... and so far its never happened. Ironic if that huge match could be here.

The time when Nadal was dead on his feet?

Forget all that sonic. What I'm talking about is that he came out of the locker room, sat on his chair, never waited for Rafa at the net. He won the toss, elected to receive ... he took all the mind games and then exploited every aspect of what Rafa might have been feeling and employed abject use of the drop shot whenever he could ... something he could once barely bring himself to do. As a Rafa fan, I didn't like what I was seeing but this was a man totally thinking about doing everything possible to give himself the competitive edge. Ruthless ...

Nadal improved his backhand this past 2 matches and seems to be playing better. He is not hitting the balls mid court but with more depth and closer to the baseline. It's a testament to how great he is on clay reaching the finals without his A game. For Federer, he has to serve like he did today and even with that, he has task on his hands. Losing a 6th grand slam final to Nadal again might not be too good.

Simple_Analyst wrote:Nadal improved his backhand this past 2 matches and seems to be playing better. He is not hitting the balls mid court but with more depth and closer to the baseline. It's a testament to how great he is on clay reaching the finals without his A game. For Federer, he has to serve like he did today and even with that, he has task on his hands. Losing a 6th grand slam final to Nadal again might not be too good.

Rafa is emperor of clay, Fed losing to him will not make much of a difference as Fed is now 29 and not at his best. However, if Rafa loses then there will be several questions asked him to be ranked along side Roger in terms of a tennis g.o.a.t.

Thanks Wooffie, I'd forgotten about that, Roger hardly ever drop shotting before that match. In fact I think he was copying Murray who'd got the better of Nadal once with that very same tactic.

But, if Nadal can play the game he is used to, its going to be very difficult for Federer to beat him. You saw what happened when Djokovic started firing on all cylinders, he ran away with the 3rd set. That was a combination of taking Roger out of his comfort zone and running him from corner to corner, great tactics, but couldn't keep it up as Federer began to play his own style of mixup.

But Nadal has to do what he did to Murray, keep him running, not let him get into a confidence trip and be accurate with his 1st serve.

My prediction is 5 sets of pure magic and the eventual winner will be Nadal, but I'm rooting for Fed....sorry.

Jubbahey wrote:Thanks Wooffie, I'd forgotten about that, Roger hardly ever drop shotting before that match. In fact I think he was copying Murray who'd got the better of Nadal once with that very same tactic.

But, if Nadal can play the game he is used to, its going to be very difficult for Federer to beat him. You saw what happened when Djokovic started firing on all cylinders, he ran away with the 3rd set. That was a combination of taking Roger out of his comfort zone and running him from corner to corner, great tactics, but couldn't keep it up as Federer began to play his own style of mixup.

But Nadal has to do what he did to Murray, keep him running, not let him get into a confidence trip and be accurate with his 1st serve.

My prediction is 5 sets of pure magic and the eventual winner will be Nadal, but I'm rooting for Fed....sorry.

How ever well Federer plays, I can't see him stretching Nadal to 5 sets at Roland Garros.

I would have to kill myself in the pure ecstasy of a Fed victory.... but not before enjoying seeing him hugging his wife and children court side and weeping through his victory speech wearing the red and white flag with his red shirt and matching laces. If he pulls off the win this will surely be obligatory.

Whatever happens Fed will never know how much I love him for just playing the tennis he has been playing and getting as far as he has in this tourno.

Tropicalfruiter wrote:I would have to kill myself in the pure ecstasy of a Fed victory.... but not before enjoying seeing him hugging his wife and children court side and weeping through his victory speech wearing the red and white flag with his red shirt and matching laces. If he pulls off the win this will surely be obligatory.

Whatever happens Fed will never know how much I love him for just playing the tennis he has been playing and getting as far as he has in this tourno.

Whatever happens, Fed will remain the magician to adorn the tennis courts whereas Nadal will remain the grafter and slugfester.

The strange thing is that although Nadal must be favourite, there is something telling me that Federer could even win this in 3 sets. That is based on the following;

1. Federer has been through this many times, but not for three years. He has had plenty of time to take the deepest of breaths and think through a plan. Most important will be to forget the 4 defeats.
2. Nadal isn't at his best. He was lucky to get through in 3 sets over Murray, who was also injured. He beat up Soderling, but Robin is slipping down the ladder.
3. The pressure is all off Federer. He's the #3 against the #1, he's almost 30, he's the big underdog, he's not playing for a Grand Slam (as he was twice before), he already has a RG title in the books.
4. Their last meeting was closer even than the deciding set indicates; the last two sets were decisive for Nadal in score, but competitive throughout. It was on slower clay than Sunday will be played on, and I think the feeling is that the balls are speeding the event up.
5. Nadal's aura is bruised. Isner, for Gods sake!

I still go for Nadal, I'm not going so far as to see a Fed win as a likely outcome, but unlike 2008, when I knew Federer was on the way down and playing awfully, there's a sense of resurgence in the guy and Nadal has all the pressure on him. It's all about getting on top of Nadal, putting pressure on his serve (which can crumble if he fears something bad is coming back unless he presses) and not becoming passive. Oh, and doing all that without throwing in loads of u/es. Easy really.

Fed played a clean match against Nole, didn't make too many errors considering how aggressive he was. If he keeps his error count low and serves a high percentage of first he can win. However the slice backhand is not as effective against Nadal as it is against Djokovic. Nadal handles the slice a lot better and uses it as an opportunity to run around the slower slice and hit a short angled forehand off the court.

Well judging how Fed played last night I didnt see the usual weakness on his backhand which is the wing that Rafa normally tries to exploit.
However its a matter of whether Roger can cope with Rafa´s top spin
Roger looked confident where Rafa still looks a little vulnerable all things can change but it hopefully with be a Fedal classic

The main reason why Fed has a better chance this year than before is because of the heavy balls carrying pace further into the baseline. THose balls finally give the weight of shots he had in his hey days.

He woudl have been beaten in straight sets by Djoko and Nadal otherwise.

Roger needs to keep his 1st serve % into the 60's. And he has draw strength from the WTF where he dealt with looping shots to his BH much better than previously.

What he does better than Rafa is hitting deep: if he's going to be forced back and hit mid-court balls then he's going to knocked from pillar to post. He knows he has to play aggressively and keep in mind that he has just beaten a man currently playing to the same level as Nadal in Djoko. Crucial I think will be hitting his backhand slice deep when he hasn't got the time to hit a topspin BH.

He can do it! Rafa can't have the same confidence after his last matches with Nole. It's like a boxer - they're rarely the same after taking a beating. The man knows he is beatable now.

Mind you, I still rate Rafa as favourite lol! But goooooooooo Rog!

whatever things mentioned here or by pundits,,i believed fed had done it all during his 6 years of the rivalry with nadal

but do those thing is one thing,,do it for 3 sets against nadal in majors is another chapter..

in WTF,,while fed blazing thru his opponents during the tournament,,
nadal who was visibly fatigue in the final after superb encounter with murray in SF,,still managed to steal one set from the on-form federer

in FO 2006,,nadal carrying injuries throughout the tournament,,losing 1-6 on the first set but still get away with a trophy that day.

hm..nadal in 3 or 4..

Federer should go for low angled approach shots first to the Nadal forehand, then to his backhand, then to his body when attempting to finish points off with an angled volley or drop shot at the net.

How can Federer beat Nadal tomorrow? very simple!

Play his best for 3 sets. Federer's best is way better than Nadal's best.

Nadal's best can feed Federer with endless rallies forcing him into UEs.

Federer's best sends the ball where Nadal isn't, giving Nadal little say on the points.

However, it's clear that Federer's best is a fragile equilibrium which can easily be affected by too much rallying.

That's why their H2H on clay is so one-sided.

I saw Federer beat Nadal in TMC quite easily in November.
No problem with Federer backhand whatsoever, he's got such variety on that shot, I only realised it when I watched it live as I sat quite close to the court.

Nadal is not playing his last years best, but somehow he'll probably have all the confidence he needs as in slams he , let's not kid ourselves here, owns Federer.

Chatrier with these new balls seems to play really fast, and there lies Federer's chance. A very slender one.

Nadal is not playing his last years best,
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Agree with your post bar this little text I extracted.

Nadal did not play well on clay last year either....despite winning everything. He never had to face any player who could challenge him physically and many said at the time he was not as good as before at the time. An I was listening to the woman who comments on the BBC and she also remembered it exactly like that too. It's only when he won it all that people realised he played well...but let's face it, when he met guys with a bit of flair, he got a thrashing (Almagro, Gulbis) and a poor Federer ran him close in Madrid.

I'm sure Nadal wouldn't mind whether he played best this FO when and if he lifts the trophy tomorrow, he has nothing to prove in a tournament he has owned for years. He could have played only top 10 players each round for all his past FO WIns and would still have won all of them.

he has nothing to prove in a tournament he has owned for years.
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One reason I am gutted Federer won is that it prevented actually Nadal to prove that at his peak he is the best on clay. Something I really question. Match up and luck of the draw might have saved him once more.

His peak he is best on clay? That's a funny one. He has been peak on clay since he was 18 years old.

He did not win a set on clay against Djokovic this year..even on Nadal's home soil.

Nadal was the fittest and that iswhy he was the best. Now he has been seriously exposed by another more talented physical player.

Exposed? I'm sure he'll remember that if he wins the title tomorrow. Is there a law in tennis which says Nadal should take a set of Djokovic on clay this year? At least Djokovic has shown he can beat Nadal in 3 sets tournaments. As proven at the USO finals, he didn't stand a chance on his favourite hard courts. If I remembered correctly, prior to that, he thrashed Nadal 3 straight times before that. Who got the last laugh? He would have lost to Nadal if he was in the finals.

Major finals are what count at this stage. Both Federer and Nadal have been World No 1, and whilst Federer would like to get back there to break Sampras' record, a win at the French over Nadal, would be a far greater accomplishment for him.

Federer DOES have the goods to beat Nadal but it will take a confluence of several things working for him OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

Nadal is aware of what Federer can produce, but I think will be slightly relieved at not facing Djokovic, though that might be more my feelings that Nadal's!

Federer spent alot of mental and psychological energy against Djokovic - I think alot of fans who perhaps don't play tennis, or not at too high a level, can't really appreciate what that takes out of you. To concentrate at the highest level, over a period of possibly five sets is enormous. That Federer and Nadal have done so on so many occasions throughout their career, and matches against one another, doesn't make it any easier to do.

Federer will need to come out of the blocks fast, both to encourage himself, and to try to plant doubts and anxiety in Nadal. Should Nadal get out to a set lead, I think he will settle down more, and the pressure then really swings onto Federer.

Federer openly acknowledged how vital that first set was, and it remains so for him to do it tomorrow; to come back and win three out of four sets, were he to lose the first, will be a very hard task for him. He also acknowledged the ferocity of the first two sets, the pace of shots, etc., and Federer will have to do that for another three out of five sets tomorrow.

I do think either player COULD win this match tomorrow, but I think it will take a greater effort on Federer's part, than Nadal's, simply because it's more a natural rhythym of Nadal's game, than of Federer's.

It may well come down to the same thing we've seen in so many of their matches, and that of Nadal v Murray - the KEY points. Having break points doesn't win you matches, TAKING the break points does. There's quite a history of break points missed by Federer, when playing Nadal at the French, and other big matches; remember - Nadal had Federer at 15-40 in Fed's 2nd and 3rd service games of 5th set, but didn't take either; Nadal c-o-u-l-d have won Wimbledon 2007 6-2 5th set; missing out on big points is something that either can ill afford tomorrow.

Perhaps BECAUSE Federer wasn't expected to be here by so many, and that Nadal HAS had a diminished performance on the clay in 2011, it makes this such an appealing match up.

I am hoping for a Nadal win, but regardless of the victor, it'd be fantastic to see something "for the ages," maybe 14-12 fifth set, or 4 tiebreakers in the first four sets with multiple set points for each player, in each set??

Big ask, but if any two players can bring out the absolute best in each other, these are the two.

By the way i'm not down playing Djokovic's recent wins over Nadal. However 5 set slam matches are always different.

Tenez wrote:he has nothing to prove in a tournament he has owned for years.
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One reason I am gutted Federer won is that it prevented actually Nadal to prove that at his peak he is the best on clay. Something I really question. Match up and luck of the draw might have saved him once more.

I know exactly what you mean. Part of me really wishes that Novak had won the match on Friday as his game matches up against Rafa's so much better than Roger's does and he has been in the form of his life.

I am not sure I can sit through the agony and frustration of another Roland Garros defeat for Roger where he sends a forehand long on match point.

I hope that my pessimism is unjustified, but I won't be holding my breath.

i remembered gulbis last year told about his match against nadal,,n he thought that nadal was not that superior in that match.
but u know,,gulbis,,what u expect from him?


but looking back madrid 09 SF,,nadal used his reserve to win against novak (i thought novak should had won tht day),,n see wht happened after tht,, his first birthday party in homeland after years.

after tht season,,nadal became a wiser man,,
not going for win at all cost,,not chasing all those impossible balls

so,,i dont think his clay- season last year was a good one,,in term of trophies yes,,but in term of performances, i didnt think he was far superior than other. he just did enough to win it all..

he struggled against almagro,,gulbis,,belucci,,n a young guy look like monfils, cant remember his name,,
but at the end,,he prevailed in all his matches.

Simple_Analyst wrote:By the way i'm not down playing Djokovic's recent wins over Nadal. However 5 set slam matches are always different.

Haven't you noticed a difference between Djoko 10 and 11? It's a reverse situation. Nadal has more chance to beat Djoko over 3 sets than 5. Nadal was a spent force after the 3 sets they played in IW and Miami. I would have loved to see a best of 5 set this year on clay. Well it would have been a 3 setter anyway...fr Djoko.

Let's hope those new balls will give Federer a better chance Kemet.

I think Federer can do it but he has to be at his absolute best his A- game is not good enough against Nadal on clay. Again his backhand will be test and he must pass the test. And also has to serve extremely well. In past matchups he hasn't played the big points well against Nadal especially break points that has to change. i hope for a good final and a federer win, Novak deserves to be #1. Not that I have anything against nadal wish him luck rest of the season.

Tenez wrote:

Simple_Analyst wrote:By the way i'm not down playing Djokovic's recent wins over Nadal. However 5 set slam matches are always different.

Haven't you noticed a difference between Djoko 10 and 11? It's a reverse situation. Nadal has more chance to beat Djoko over 3 sets than 5. Nadal was a spent force after the 3 sets they played in IW and Miami. I would have loved to see a best of 5 set this year on clay. Well it would have been a 3 setter anyway...fr Djoko.

In your opinion

When exactly has Djokovic beaten Rafa over 5 sets-
He had five sets to beat Roger yesterday and couldn´t

1 - When serving he's gotta serve well and keep the points short. Isner's had him in real trouble this year with this tactic.

2 - When returning on the 1st don't be scared to rally with him for a few shots cause I think he's leaving a lot of short balls to be attacked. Either aggressively and or coming in behind drop shots and angles to take him out of his comfort zone. I thought Murray had great success with this, he just didn't do it enough.

On the Rafa's 2nd serves I say take a rip at it and treat the rally as if you were serving.

1. 67% first serves, throughout the match
2. No holds barred on Nadal's second serve.

BTW: One could tell Federer did his homework before the semi. His shot selection was top notch because Novak never looked like the incredible defender he was in his previous 40 matches.

Yes Eric but the Rafa Fed will face later today won't be the same that played Isner.

Yep....and Federer needs to see the ball like McEnroe did in Wimbledon 84 or Edberg's USO v Courier.

Tenez wrote:Yes Eric but the Rafa Fed will face later today won't be the same that played Isner.

Murray also had him in trouble when he was serving big !

Seems all these players had Nadal in trouble yet they will be the ones watching from today.

Quite. Considering he had problems with Isner in R1, he's now dispatched Soderling and Murray in straight sets at the end of the day. He's having fewer and fewer issues as the tournament goes on which is testament to his ability to focus and raise his level.

The problem for Fed is also what if Nadal continues to raise his level and also sees the ball like McEnroe in 84 - as he did in the final in 2008. We have to remember that Federer is the one player Nadal respects more than any other, the one player he still thinks is better than him - and it motivates him hugely.

So the bad news for Fed is that its actually himself playing Rafa - so expect Nadal's level to go up 2-3 gears today. The guy who played Isner wont be recognisable.

Now, if both raise their levels we're in for another classic.

The main issue today is the weather - its not good until later on:
http://www.weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/FRXX0076

'On the Rafa's 2nd serves I say take a rip at it and treat the rally as if you were serving. '

what if nadal does a body-serve/outwide/kick serve..what u're going to do?
try imagine urself in that position.

fed may have chance to attack nadals 2nd serve,,but i think it will be not that much chances