Edinburgh and Glasgow season summary and next season lookahead

Edinburgh

Pro 12

League finish – 9th
Wins – 11
Losses – 11
Points F:A – 405:366
Try BP – 2
LBP – 8

Challenge Cup

3rd in Group

Trophies

1872 cup (again)

Pros

Not very much.  Another 1872 Cup win was a great achievement, particularly given the nature of both wins.  This should have led to a push for a Top 4 place but ended up being followed by a dramatic slump in form, losing numerous games in a row during the 6N period.

Trying to look at things positively, we were only 9 points off 6th place and given that there were 3 or 4 games this season that we really should have won, it shows we’re not that far off.  8 LBPs demonstrate that too. That is looking at things very positively though…

Need for improvement

Where to begin? Solomons negative gameplan and lack of rotation has once again cost us.  Our style of play looked positive when we beat Leinster in the opening game of the season, throwing the ball about and playing at a fast tempo – that disappeared very quickly however and we generally served some dross all season.  The 1872 games showed what happens when Solomons tactics are implemented fully as intended, but that was pretty much the only time we saw that all season. Desperately slow, cripplingly unimaginative – words that can be used to summarise most of our performances this season.

We have shown glimpses of good attacking rugby but it has only been when we were behind on the scoreboard – Connacht at home being a prime example.

Given the players we have and the investment in the squad Top 6 really should be our minimum expectation – it is on Solomons’ head that we have failed once again.


Glasgow

Pro 12

League finish – 3rd
Wins – 14
Losses – 7
Draws – 1
Points F:A – 557:380
Try BP – 8
LBP – 6

Champions Cup

2nd in group, failed to qualify

Trophies

None

Pros

Making the playoffs was a huge achievement given they had the most number of players at the World Cup out of any club in the world.  Combine that with the Scotland squad mainly coming from Glasgow and they had a lot of ground to catch up on after a poor start to the season. Ultimately it was a poor season given Glasgow’s high standards, but I don’t think we can underestimate the effect the World Cup had on the season.

Need for improvement

Once again Glasgow fell short in Europe, finishing 2nd but with not enough points.  It was a tough group but they are all tough groups. Unfortunately I can’t see things getting any easier for Glasgow now that they can no longer hold on to their top players – I suspect we’ll only see them qualify if they get some luck with their group draw (i.e. an Italian team).

Have I mentioned that Glasgow lost the 1872 cup (again?) having been soundly beaten over both legs?

Ultimately though things just haven’t clicked for Glasgow this season like they have in previous seasons – their rampant form of last year failed to materialise very often this season.  There are still questionmarks over the pack, with the lineout falling to pieces during the Pro 12 Semi final.

Things are going to become more difficult for Glasgow since they are now unable to hold on to some of their top players – Nakarawa is unreplaceable.

I think Glasgow will always be there or there abouts in the Pro 12 but it will be an uphill battle to repeat last year’s Pro 12 success from now on.  They are still better than Edinburgh though!

Nice work RDW, a very accurate overview of both teams.

From a Glasgow persepective, what worried me more than anything was the tactical naivety during both legs of the Connacht game. They made a lot of mistakes, but that was borne out of poor decision making in terms of where to play the game. Refusing multiple kicks at goal could be seen as positive and adventurous, but in games of that nature (and in Europe) Glasgow have to learn how to be more pragmatic. The leadership group are all young, and I hope they will be better next season in that regard. I would like to see a big, knarly second row and a top class loosehead as priority for next season.

What happens along the M8 will be very interesting, with the time given to Solomons and the investment in the squad he has absolutely no excuses not to provide a top 6 finish next season. Unfortunately, unless he completely changes his philosophy on how the game should be played and his use of the entire squad, I can see a tired and unmotivated team finishing much where they are just now.

I would agree on Glasgow's game plan - it just didn't work both legs against Connacht, and hasn't been as successful this season.

At the start of games Glasgow often look like they are playing like headless chickens but it usually clicks in the last half hour and they run riot - that just didn't happen this season.

They looked like a bunch of individuals against Connact and made some really bad decisions - that fancy backs move in their own 22 being one of the worst.  Why do that when your pack's rolling maul has gone nowhere, and the defence is now right up on the back foot as opposed to 10m back?? Pyrgos' quick taps were done at the wrong time and with not enough conviction too.

Edinburgh have shown they can move the ball about when given the opportunity. They needed a couple of genuine 10s who can kick the penalties and a couple of difference makers to develop. With the new 10's (Weir and Tovey) and the young players joining (Scholes and Bryce) there is some signs of joined up thinking. As Kinghorn, Hoyland and Dean improve there are signs of a decent back division with genuine competition. Now it is up to Solomons, who has already caused Shiells and A Toolis to leave from poor rotation. If Edinburgh can rotate (and K Bryce can prove effective at TH), there is hope for a top 6 finish.

Glasgow have had a poor season by their standards and the key to next season is keeping Townsend. A quality signing in the pack is needed to go with Flynn; preferably a LH or a 6 in my opinion. A development fly half to deputise during the international periods would be a good addition as well. The return of Vernon along with the continued development of Russell, Price, and Johnson should bolster the backs. Europe was close this season without a true pre-season. Winning 4 games at a minimum is the task for next season. Winning the Pro 12 and making the knockout rounds of Europe are the ultimate goals.

Yeah, part of it can be attributed to a long season catching up on them, and obviously a hammer blow losing your 3 and 10 in the first minute. But I do think they have to adapt to improve next year. I'm not saying abandon their style completely, but they need to develop a harder edge to their play.

Yep - agree with these summaries.

The challenge for Edinburgh next season is primarily to adapt the gameplan to a less structured format, and give the players more freedom to express themselves. The arrival of two proper standoffs should help, and I see Burleigh as a regular fixture at 12 as pivotal to a more expansive game. We also badly need SH-C to come back into form and get his confidence back.

Prediction: When all is said and done however, Solomons will stay for at least another year so I suspect it'll be more of the same next year.

The challenge for Glasgow will be around recruitment. They need to unearth a couple more rough diamonds to replace Naka and Matawalu (whose absence was keenly felt at times this season). I think Toonie had hoped that Big T would provide that X-Factor this season but his heart has never been in it. You can compete in the Pro12 with military medium players like Swinson and Wilson, but in the European competitions those types of players just don't make a dent. They also need to fix the front row depth, as has been made pretty clear at times this season.

Prediction: Glasgow will no doubt be challenging for the play-off again next season, but I worry about their European credentials unless the two points noted above are addressed.

My concern about Edinburgh is that we could get better yet still lose out on the Top 6 - it is incredibly competitive and every other team is getting better too.

The Ospreys should be much stronger next season and the Blues have recruited well so they will have Top 6 aspirations. I can't see the current Top 6 getting worse, with only the Scarlets perhaps struggling - they very much benefited during the World Cup.

So it is going to be incredibly tough to get Top 6 and we need to make a significant jump to get there.

RDW_Scotland wrote:My concern about Edinburgh is that we could get better yet still lose out on the Top 6 - it is incredibly competitive and every other team is getting better too.

The Ospreys should be much stronger next season and the Blues have recruited well so they will have Top 6 aspirations. I can't see the current Top 6 getting worse, with only the Scarlets perhaps struggling - they very much benefited during the World Cup.

So it is going to be incredibly tough to get Top 6 and we need to make a significant jump to get there.

Thats the key issue, Edinburgh will no doubt improve in line with their recruitment, but to make the jump into the top 6 its going to take a change in playing style, tactics and management. For me, Solly is just too set in his ways to make the changes necessary.

So as far as I'm aware the Edinburgh squad for next season is:

1 - Dickinson, Sutherland, Dell, Cosgrove
2 Ford, McInally, Cochrane, Turner
3 Nel, Berghan, Bryce, Beavon
4/5 - Gilchrist, Bresler, Toolis, McKenzie, Carmichael
6/8 - Du Preez, Manu, Bradbury, Ritchie
7 - Hardie, Watson

9 - Hidalgo-Clyne, Kennedy, Fowles
10 - Weir, Tovey
12 - Burleigh, Rasolea
13 - Allan, Dean
11/14 - Scholes, Hoyland, Brown, Helu
15 - Kinghorn, Bryce

So unless I've forgotten anyone that is a squad of 38, which is a lot leaner than the previous few seasons.

If anything we could actually do with a bit more depth, with back row actually looking short - 6 players to cover 4 squad places over a whole season isn't very much.

Ideally the signing would be someone that wouldn't get in the way of Ritchie and Bradbury's development, but it is easier said than done getting someone who is a good player but would be happy not being first choice...

Blair Cowan? Would want regular gametime
Mitch Eadie? Bristol are finally getting promoted barring a complete collapse
Anyone else?

Bordill or Hill would have made sense but they have gone off to the Championship. Edinburgh would probably sign a Saffa though if it is a back row player. Space for a young player in the backs as utility cover. Who are the EDP for Glasgow and Edinburgh next season?

Not ideal but we could see McKenzie at 6 if he ever recovers.

I rate Cowan highly but he wouldn't make the 1st XV and would probably come in ahead of Ritchie and Bradbury so I'm not sure it would work for either side.

I can't see Eadie leaving unless Bristol recruit heavily and he's told he doesn't have a role. If that's the case then we should snap him up.

Keeping Mike Coman would have made the most sense. Handy cover, but you were never particularly upset leaving him out.

I agree, Coman was a solid player and would have been a very hand option for next season.

It's unlikely to happen, but Kelly Brown would be perfect on a one year deal. He is undoubtedly on the way down, but his experience would be very handy.

The problem with Coman is that Solomons kept playing him regardless of the better options available - same with Strauss!

EST wrote:I agree, Coman was a solid player and would have been a very hand option for next season.

It's unlikely to happen, but Kelly Brown would be perfect on a one year deal.  He is undoubtedly on the way down, but his experience would be very handy.  

Good shout on Brown, bags of experience as well. Not sure he's friends with the SRU however.

Coman was pish

Glasgow need to move on now, into their post Fijian phase. Niko and Leone have been fantastic talismatic figures for the club but they are gone now ans we need to move on.

Unlike when we picked those guys up, we now have a raft of promising young players coming through. How Glasgow develop into next season and the future depends a lot on how the youngsters kick on and whether they fulfil their potential. We are never going to be a club that can buy in talent. Uncut diamonds or gnarly old pros is all we are going to get in the transfer market. We do have a youth system that seems to be producing now at long last, we simply have to make the most of them. The advantage of being a promising young player in Scotland is that you may get noticed and you may get a chance.

Hard to know how Glasgow will go next year. They will get a full pre season in and won't get the internationals back in bits but I also agree that they need to re-invent themselves a little. There are times this year when we have been bullied and if we are going to progress then that has to change.

I am not so despondent about losing the semi. I just hope that it brings us back next year a lot hungrier than we have been at times this year. At times over the past few years it has been a bit to easy and when it does get tough, we have been found a little wanting.

Watching the never say die attitude that the sevens players showed on sunday would not do them any harm either. It is so positive to see that kind of backbone in Scottish sport, that has been lacking for a long long time.

If Toonie does not get the team firing properly next season, then I have a feeling that it will be his last at Glasgow. He won't stay on if he feels he has gone past his sell by date and no doubt will back himself to succeed elsewhere. If he can re-invent them into another winning team, with some new young players coming through, he may well want to hang around.

BigGee wrote:At times over the past few years it has been a bit to easy and when it does get tough, we have been found a little wanting.

Thats the crux of the problem, BigGee. It happened on more than one occasion this year, and obviously most recently against Connacht. When a team stops us playing fancy rugby, we struggle going into he trenches.

Where I would disagree is that I believe there will be some money available for a big signing. Although the SRU can't match the likes of Wasps and the French teams, and nor should we try, they have shown that they are willing to put up some cash. Nasi Manu won't be cheap, for example. I think Glasgow really need a big, experienced character in the pack.

In other news, still no word on Russell. I hope he is ok as the lack of communication is slightly worrying.

Also worth noting that Connacht's pack, coached by their new forwards coach, generally outplayed Glasgow's pack coached by the former Connacht forwards coach !
Yes, personnel have changed in the front five and there is far less leadership experience but I still feel that with the players available the forwards should have been a much more effective unit than they showed for large swathes of this season. Without Nakawara, who is irreplaceable, next year could be a very tricky season. Can the team find away to adapt without big Naka's breaks and offloads?
He will be a huge asset for racing: Nakawara rampaging with Chat, Dulin, Imhof or Goosen in support will send shivers down the spines of other T14 clubs.

Glasgow's biggest failing over the years has definitely been their front 5. For all Nakarawa's rampaging runs and audacious offloads in the loose, he's hardly Bakkies Botha when it comes to the tight game. When you look at Glasgow's first choice front 5 and subs it is actually pretty average:

1 Reid
2 Brown
3 Pufisi
4 Nakarawa
5 Gray

Subs - Grant, McArthur, Fagerson, Swinson

Of those Jonny Gray is a clear standout but he's still very young. Fraser Brown is an international class hooker but the props are only really good Pro 12 standard being honest. Not an ideal platform to let Nakarawa loose to go do his thing.

As for the bench, Grant has totally lost his mojo and Allen/Jerry are pretty average, McArthur is very average and Fagerson is a promising prospect but still very young.  We all know my opinions on Swinson!

So Glasgow are crying out for better props and a partner for Gray.  Dickinson/Nel/Bresler would make a huge difference to that pack.

I've been a fan of Peterson this season but Swinson keeps getting picked on the bench over him - I can 't understand it as Peterson would offer far more impact off the bench IMO and compliments Jonny Gray well.

Prothero wrote:Coman was pish

Yup



That was Strauss on the wing mind.

In general I agree, although I would argue that Naka does more of the grunt work than you might first imagine.

Of the players left, with the exception of Gray and Brown, I would put in the very good at Pro12 level, but quite a way of what is required to make a dent in Europe. Obviously Fagerson will improve with time, but as you say is still very young.

Kebble, the looshead from the Stormers, was rumoured a few weeks ago, and would be a great singing.

VinceWLB wrote:

Prothero wrote:Coman was pish

Yup



That was Strauss on the wing mind.

Coman was unspectacular and didn't really stand out, but he wasn't pish. He would be a good option next season to fill in the gaps left by injuries and international call ups, and add a bit of experience to the Richie/Bradbury back row.

I always thought he got an unnecessarily hard time from the Librarians. Didn't his injury coincide with Edinburgh losing all the time this season?

Coman would be a decent squad player but as I said yesterday the problem is that Solomons saw him as a first choice starter over better options - if that would still be the case next season then it is a good thing that he has gone.

EST wrote:
Coman was unspectacular and didn't really stand out, but he wasn't pish. He would be a good option next season to fill in the gaps left by injuries and international call ups, and add a bit of experience to the Richie/Bradbury back row.

I always thought he got an unnecessarily hard time from the Librarians.  Didn't his injury coincide with Edinburgh losing all the time this season?

Edinburgh started to fall off the climb way before Coman's injury. His injury was actually a blessing in disguise as it allowed more game time to Bradbury and Watson. The over-selections of Coman, Strauss and Andress were really really bad. I'm glad they are all gone although they would be good players..in the French 2nd division.

VinceWLB wrote:

EST wrote:
Coman was unspectacular and didn't really stand out, but he wasn't pish. He would be a good option next season to fill in the gaps left by injuries and international call ups, and add a bit of experience to the Richie/Bradbury back row.

I always thought he got an unnecessarily hard time from the Librarians.  Didn't his injury coincide with Edinburgh losing all the time this season?

Edinburgh started to fall off the climb way before Coman's injury. His injury was actually a blessing in disguise as it allowed more game time to Bradbury and Watson. The over-selections of Coman, Strauss and Andress were really really bad. I'm glad they are all gone although they would be good players..in the French 2nd division.

Like I said, I wouldn't advocate him starting. But Edinburgh will need to supplement their back-row with somebody. It isn't going to be a star player with CDP, Hardie and Manu already there, and it isn't going to be another young player with Bradbury and Ritche in situ. Unless Solly can persuade somebody like Kelly Brown to come back and fill a development role, then I think Coman would have been a good guy to have around to play 5-10 games a season.

Now, on Andress and Strauss leaving is something we can agree on.

I agree with EST. We're not looking for a player to block Manu or Du Preez, but a seasoned pro to provide cover. My concern would be a double injury and then we end up with a player out of position or a particularly inexperienced side, when a player like Brown or Coman could come in and work with the likes of Watson and Bradbury.

Most likely - some random Southern Kings player

Less likely - Blair Cowan

Long shot - Keiran Reid fancies a new challenge

Kieran Low (who somehow got capped) is a lock/6 who had an awful season last year and needs a new challenge. Edinburgh are short a lock who can stay healthy (I assume Gilchrist and McKenzie are injured for the season already) and a backup back row. He would make a good bench option if he can get back into form and will be cheap.

Careful to anoint Kebble the chosen one after Reid's place. He looks a good prospect but he is no Mtawarira. Djustice could prove to be an answer and I rate Allan who unfortunately seems to have the Gilchrist issue (no health). As for lock, we will surely see more of Cummings and Peterson next season. Cummings is a potential future international and Peterson is actually a good player with a lot of size.

As for Swinson, if he was 2 inches taller (with another stone or so that goes with that) he would be an international level enforcer. Good player who is just too small at the highest level.

Is Kieran Low even still at Glasgow? Where has he been all season?

I've not been overly impressed by him at all - he's the kind of player that Roddy Grant must look at and think "how did he get capped and I didn't??"

Low got loaned out to Sarries in November to hold tackle bags. He would fit the role, is SQ, cheap to contract and only 25. As a 5th choice lock and a 3rd choice back row, I don't think Edinburgh are going to find much better if Brown is not interested and they don't have any other youth prospect to give the role to.

I'm just not sure what Low does. Players usually have one or two things that they are good at whilst others are genuine allrounders, but with Low I look at him and ask myself "what's the point?". He's versatile only in the sense that he's equally ineffective at two positions, but a few people at the SRU (I'm guessing Scott Johnson) clearly rate him enough to have him feature for Scotland and sign him for Glasgow. For some very bizarre reason Sarries wanted him on loan as well! Can you imagine him training with George Kruis and Maro Itoje??

What I would say is this. If we can't find a decent experienced pro to provide cover then let's not sign anyone. Better to give a chance to a younger player, albeit wet behind the ears, than to leave us fans stuck with a lemon for a couple of years.

We've probably done this before, but in the name of true NSQ mediocrity, we salute you:

1.Yapp 2.Titerrall 3.Andress 4.Van Der Westhuizen 5.Lozada 6.Coman(c) 7.Leonardi 8.Basilia 9.Leck 10.Francis 11.Helu 12.Strauss 13.Atiga 14.Penn 15.Sep Visser

I think mediocrity is too generous for some of those players FES.

I do think Te Rure needs to be in there somewhere though!

A common theme with most of those players is that they were signed by Michael Bradley.  Good to see our HK semi final earnings were put to good use...

I forgot Perry Parker as well. Legend.

Google has thrown up a few more:

Francisco Leonelli - Argentinian Fullback

Ulises Gamboa - tighthed prop that made Andy Goode look like a finely tuned athelete

Remember when Jack Gilding was called up to the Scotland squad due to injuries?

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm just not sure what Low does. Players usually have one or two things that they are good at whilst others are genuine allrounders, but with Low I look at him and ask myself "what's the point?". He's versatile only in the sense that he's equally ineffective at two positions, but a few people at the SRU (I'm guessing Scott Johnson) clearly rate him enough to have him feature for Scotland and sign him for Glasgow. For some very bizarre reason Sarries wanted him on loan as well! Can you imagine him training with George Kruis and Maro Itoje??

What I would say is this. If we can't find a decent experienced pro to provide cover then let's not sign anyone. Better to give a chance to a younger player, albeit wet behind the ears, than to leave us fans stuck with a lemon for a couple of years.

We've probably done this before, but in the name of true NSQ mediocrity, we salute you:

1.Yapp 2.Titerrall 3.Andress 4.Van Der Westhuizen 5.Lozada 6.Coman(c) 7.Leonardi 8.Basilia 9.Leck 10.Francis 11.Helu 12.Strauss 13.Atiga 14.Penn 15.Sep Visser

Oh dear. Isn't that a glowing tribute of the SRU recruitment team. Low would be very comfortable in that company. I think he was the type of player that Scott Johnson thought: "Look, this bloke has been in the England U20, he plays really well above or below the ground, lets cap the gallah".

Hazel Sapling wrote:Kieran Low (who somehow got capped) is a lock/6 who had an awful season last year and needs a new challenge. Edinburgh are short a lock who can stay healthy (I assume Gilchrist and McKenzie are injured for the season already) and a backup back row. He would make a good bench option if he can get back into form and will be cheap.

Careful to anoint Kebble the chosen one after Reid's place. He looks a good prospect but he is no Mtawarira. Djustice could prove to be an answer and I rate Allan who unfortunately seems to have the Gilchrist issue (no health). As for lock, we will surely see more of Cummings and Peterson next season. Cummings is a potential future international and Peterson is actually a good player with a lot of size.

As for Swinson, if he was 2 inches taller (with another stone or so that goes with that) he would be an international level enforcer. Good player who is just too small at the highest level.

I agree RE: Kebble, he isn't in the class of Mtawarira - but there are not many of his calibre of players available. He is still young, has the physical stature and comes from very good pedigree. Importantly, I think we could afford him and is an improvement on what we have. As for Djustice, I have a couple of mates who are involved in the Canada squad - they both say that physically he is an absolute beast, but that his work rate isn't the best. He certainly has a lot of potential.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Google has thrown up a few more:

Francisco Leonelli - Argentinian Fullback

Ulises Gamboa - tighthed prop that made Andy Goode look like a finely tuned athelete

Remember when Jack Gilding was called up to the Scotland squad due to injuries?

Apparently that was only because they couldn't reach Radge due to the lack of phones in Fife.

Didn't Leonelli end up at Glasgow? Those were the days when we shipped rubbish players West rather than good ones.

Interesting that Aly Muldowney has become a cornerstone of the Connacht pack, should he have been kept at Glasgow? He was in the Scotland A pack at one point if I recall.

EST wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:Kieran Low (who somehow got capped) is a lock/6 who had an awful season last year and needs a new challenge. Edinburgh are short a lock who can stay healthy (I assume Gilchrist and McKenzie are injured for the season already) and a backup back row. He would make a good bench option if he can get back into form and will be cheap.

Careful to anoint Kebble the chosen one after Reid's place. He looks a good prospect but he is no Mtawarira. Djustice could prove to be an answer and I rate Allan who unfortunately seems to have the Gilchrist issue (no health). As for lock, we will surely see more of Cummings and Peterson next season. Cummings is a potential future international and Peterson is actually a good player with a lot of size.

As for Swinson, if he was 2 inches taller (with another stone or so that goes with that) he would be an international level enforcer. Good player who is just too small at the highest level.

I agree RE: Kebble, he isn't in the class of Mtawarira - but there are not many of his calibre of players available. He is still young, has the physical stature and comes from very good pedigree. Importantly, I think we could afford him and is an improvement on what we have. As for Djustice, I have a couple of mates who are involved in the Canada squad - they both say that physically he is an absolute beast, but that his work rate isn't the best. He certainly has a lot of potential.

It was a bit of a surprise that Djustice did not get any game time during his time at Glasgow this season, especialy with a few soft games against the Italians to have tried him out on. The only explanation I can think of for that is that they did not think that he was fit enough and that kind of ties in with the poor work rate theory.

They have not let him go yet, which maybe makes you think that they beleive that there is something there to work with, but that they need to spend a summer knocking him into proper shape to be a professional prop forward. If they did not think that he had it in him, then surely they would have sent him on his way with all the other departees at the end of the season. Any prop in the Glasgow set up is going to have to be comfortable running around the pitch a bit as well as doing scrums!

MacKnocked-on wrote:Interesting that Aly Muldowney has become a cornerstone of the Connacht pack, should he have been kept at Glasgow? He was in the Scotland A pack at one point if I recall.

Impossible to fathom out as it is, I believe that his wife did not settle in Glasgow and that was the main reason for the move down to Exeter. I don't recall him setting the heather on fire down there either, but he certainly has blossomed late on at Connacht and he has earned the right to a couple of years on a decent wedge in France at this end of his career.

Connacht will miss him next season and unfortunately for them, others amongst their better players will get picked off as well, within and without Ireland.

Glasgow Squad for next year (copying RDW above)
LH: Reid, Allan, Grant, Djustice
Hookers: Brown, Flynn, MacArthur, Malcolm, Fenton
TH: Puafisi, Fagerson, Rae, Firth
Locks: Gray, Swinson, Peterson, Cummings, Low?
6/8: Strauss, Harley, Wilson, Ashe
7: Favaro, Fusaro, Blake
SH: Pyrgos, Price, Hart
FH: Russell, Clegg
Inside Centres: Dunbar, Horne, Johnson, Lyle
Outside Centres: Bennett, Vernon, Grigg
Wing: Seymour, Sarto, Jones, Lamont, Hughes, Junior
FB: Hogg, Murchie

45 players (Low is on wiki and Fenton is not but not sure about either so they were included). I tried to list them as a depth chart as of the end of the season rather than what might be seen next season (when we see the rise of Peterson, Fagerson and Malcolm)

It looks like Horne will be expected to cover 10 at this moment in time and Seymour will have to help out at 15. There are arguably one more centre and one more wing than necessary but this is likely due to 7s. I am expecting Blake back or else the back row starts to look a bit thin (assuming Low is gone).

I'd forgotten about Sarto - makes the re-signing of Lamont even more ridiculous. I think Sarto is a class act and will make a real impact at Warriors.

BigGee wrote:

EST wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:Kieran Low (who somehow got capped) is a lock/6 who had an awful season last year and needs a new challenge. Edinburgh are short a lock who can stay healthy (I assume Gilchrist and McKenzie are injured for the season already) and a backup back row. He would make a good bench option if he can get back into form and will be cheap.

Careful to anoint Kebble the chosen one after Reid's place. He looks a good prospect but he is no Mtawarira. Djustice could prove to be an answer and I rate Allan who unfortunately seems to have the Gilchrist issue (no health). As for lock, we will surely see more of Cummings and Peterson next season. Cummings is a potential future international and Peterson is actually a good player with a lot of size.

As for Swinson, if he was 2 inches taller (with another stone or so that goes with that) he would be an international level enforcer. Good player who is just too small at the highest level.

I agree RE: Kebble, he isn't in the class of Mtawarira - but there are not many of his calibre of players available.  He is still young, has the physical stature and comes from very good pedigree. Importantly, I think we could afford him and is an improvement on what we have.    As for Djustice, I have a couple of mates who are involved in the Canada squad - they both say that physically he is an absolute beast,  but that his work rate isn't the best.  He certainly has a lot of potential.  

It was a bit of a surprise that Djustice did not get any game time during his time at Glasgow this season, especialy with a few soft games against the Italians to have tried him out on. The only explanation I can think of for that is that they did not think that he was fit enough and that kind of ties in with the poor work rate theory.

They have not let him go yet, which maybe makes you think that they beleive that there is something there to work with, but that they need to spend a summer knocking him into proper shape to be a professional prop forward. If they did not think that he had it in him, then surely they would have sent him on his way with all the other departees at the end of the season. Any prop in the Glasgow set up is going to have to be comfortable running around the pitch a bit as well as doing scrums!

I think you are right BigGee, if he was on his way out then you would have thought they would have done it by now.

He was at the Leicester academy at one stage and was the starting loosehead for Canada during the WC, although I can't remember how they performed at scrum time? A succession of coaches have seen something in him, so hopefully GW can kick him into shape over the summer.

funnyExiledScot wrote:We've probably done this before, but in the name of true NSQ mediocrity, we salute you:

1.Yapp 2.Titerrall 3.Andress 4.Van Der Westhuizen 5.Lozada 6.Coman(c) 7.Leonardi 8.Basilia 9.Leck 10.Francis 11.Helu 12.Strauss 13.Atiga 14.Penn 15.Sep Visser

Blauuw and Perry Parker were definitely worse than Yapp and vDW. Also Hilterbrand is lucky not to be on that list and we must find a way to include Jack Gilding in there, somehow!

Blaauw!

Feck me we've signed some god awful players over the years.

The sad thing is that you'd definitely struggle to come up with half as many players if you did it for Glasgow.

Hilterbrand was actually SQ whilst at Edinburgh, but has apparently now been capped by the USA so could now retrospectively make the team.

Peter Horne's comments are pretty insightful.
“There is plenty to work on and that result will definitely spur us on next season. Everyone in the dressing room knows that we can still get better by 10 or 20 per cent.

“We’ve barely fired at all this season. We blew teams away in a couple of games, but apart from that we have played in dribs and drabs.

“We’ve got more than enough firepower to compete. We just have to make sure we work really hard in the pre-season. It will be good to get everyone together right from the start, go into those dark places and work to make sure we improve and we hit the ground running at the start of next season.”

The latest news on Dancer is not looking too good. His knock is being described as a "very serious" facial injury, which would suggest damage to the cheekbone/eye socket area. He is definitely out of the Scotland tour but you can't help feeling it will be a long rehab for him.

This is terrible for Finn himself but also not at all good for Toonie.

Step forward Rory Clegg as the only 10 in the Glasgow squad. With Alex Dunbar facing a spell on the sidelines and Mark Bennett needing a good rest, or better still fly half way round the world and play Olympic Sevens, we will probably need Furra Linee in the centres so we are looking at one fit 10.

My take on Hornee's comments are that the squad were mentally knackered for most of the season and physically exhausted for the last couple of weeks. They all need a good rest and the opportunity to rediscover their mojos before the attritional warfare that is pro rugby begins again.
Except for D'Justice and the Pukekohe Kid. They should be running up the dunes at Gullane till they vomit. Every day from now till August.

He doesn't need surgery apparently but that doesn't necessarily rule out a fracture (in my non-expert opinion!).

Either way he's like to be out for a long time, but hopefully he'll be back in time for next season.  The 'good' thing about a facial injury is that it shouldn't stop you training physically compared to say a leg break, so he should hopefully stay in shape while he's recovering, assuming he doesn't have any medium term concussion effects preventing him exercising.

That is the one good thing about the whole scenario with Finn. The rest of his body gets a proper 6-8 week break from the game (although that is all for naught if his head is not right). If he misses September due to a late start to pre season, that is not too much of an issue. If he misses the rest of the year it becomes a problem. An EDP 10 was needed beforehand and is needed even more now.

As for the centres Johnson can start with Vernon outside and Lyle, Hughes or Murchie as the 23 if Horne, Dunbar and Bennett are elsewhere in September. Johnson has some potential and Vernon should continue improving as he plays centre more (and is already a solid player). The point I get worried is if Dunbar and Bennett are both missing in October during the Heneiken.

One of my colleagues is friends with Lyle and apparently he's not overly confident he's going to have much of a future in professional rugby.

He was a solid enough player but is only really squad cover at best.