Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

by **BigGee** Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:32 pm

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

by **George Carlin** Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:41 pm

30 of these threads. 1,000 posts on each.

In November I'll have been posting here for 10 years and I was at least 5 years before that on the original 606. What is wrong with me? And by me, I obviously mean 'us'.

by bsando Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:22 am

Yes I think it was the late 00’s when I joined 606. I blame the agonising state of Scottish rugby during the late Frank Hadden era. Finding a group of like minded fans who just knew Scotland would one day fulfill their true potential has ultimately left most of us trapped on here (presumably forever). Some have found ways to remain positive, others not so much and some have just lost the plot all together.. censored

by **RDW** Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:27 am

George Carlin wrote:30 of these threads. 1,000 posts on each.

In November I'll have been posting here for 10 years and I was at least 5 years before that on the original 606. What is wrong with me? And by me, I obviously mean 'us'.

Best not pull at that thread

by **RDW** Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:33 am

George Carlin wrote:30 of these threads. 1,000 posts on each.

In November I'll have been posting here for 10 years and I was at least 5 years before that on the original 606. What is wrong with me? And by me, I obviously mean 'us'.

I could have made every single one of those posts and not covered all the posts I've done on this site.

I really do talk some pish!

by **NeilyBroon** Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:12 pm

RDW wrote:
George Carlin wrote:30 of these threads. 1,000 posts on each.

In November I'll have been posting here for 10 years and I was at least 5 years before that on the original 606. What is wrong with me? And by me, I obviously mean 'us'.

I could have made every single one of those posts and not covered all the posts I've done on this site.

I really do talk some pish!

It's good to have a hobby!

I remember the old 606. Just the hardcore left.

This is why coaches come here for tactical insight. 50% of the time it's right every time.

I'm sure the players have jimbo's quotes enlarged and framed on the walls on the Murrayfield changing rooms, famous alumni such as gLove were sculpted by the witticisms of this very forum.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:38 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67193921

Wasps are planning on trying to set up in Kent... As a former London Wasps fan this seems daft as they already lost a lot of their fanbase down south when they moved to Coventry.

Here's a left field idea though... Why don't the SRU offer them an opportunity to have a stadium up in Scotland? Aberdeen maybe? They're that void of identity these days, why not become the Highland hornets? They presumably have some form of backer hence talk of this move to Kent. So get Dodson on it, threaten to sue Kent.

by jimbopip Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:51 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67193921

Wasps are planning on trying to set up in Kent... As a former London Wasps fan this seems daft as they already lost a lot of their fanbase down south when they moved to Coventry.

Here's a left field idea though... Why don't the SRU offer them an opportunity to have a stadium up in Scotland? Aberdeen maybe? They're that void of identity these days, why not become the Highland hornets? They presumably have some form of backer hence talk of this move to Kent. So get Dodson on it, threaten to sue Kent.

Careful now, that's crazy talk that is.

Put a team in need of fans in a city with no team. Crazy.
Put a team with aspirations, and money, into a very successful league. Crazy.
Put a third pro team in a country that's ranked just outside the top four and is desperate for a team to develop their future stars. Crazy I say.

Neily, you're on a verbal warning; stop making sense...you're making the rest of us look like Dodson.

by **BigGee** Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:49 am

Edinburgh would have a BP by now if they could pick a pass, they have spooned about 4 clear chances now!

This game is surely theirs for the taking but they are msking really hard work of it atm.

by **BigGee** Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:03 am

17-16 Edinburgh at FT

Very nearly paid for their wastefulness in the first half hour but now go 2 from 2 and with plenty of scope to improve.

Good performances from Goosen and Crosbie and Hamush Watson showed there is life in the old dog with a MoM performance winning several crucial turnovers.

by **RDW** Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:38 am

Well for some reason I also watched this week's game back. Very good to go 2 from 2 and Biggee is right about the scope for improvement! The new coach has certainly kept things simple to start with but I very much hope he's got more in mind. I'd hate Edinburgh to go back to Richard Cockerill style dour, even if we get a few more wins a season that ultimate don't get us anywhere anyway. I noticed the stadium had plenty empty seats and I'm not sure performances like that will encourage new people to come along...anyway a win is a win.

Plenty chances for Edinburgh that weren't taken. Bennett early on butchered an absolutely walk-in - would have expected better.of him.

It is worth saying that the number and length of stoppages really contributed to the lack of spectacle. Every scrum, lineout, penalty decision took an absolute age. The Lions' first yellow was clear as day but it literally took 3 minutes to work out. The total live stream was just under 2 hours. Once you take out the halftime break and team entries etc that's around 1 hour 40 to play 80 minutes of rugby. Dour!

by **George Carlin** Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:51 am

For feck's sake - Glasgow blowing that game against the Craggies is the sort of nonsense that cost them last year. Hopefully Franco weeds this kind of thing out.

by EWT Spoons Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:38 pm

RDW wrote: I noticed the stadium had plenty empty seats and I'm not sure performances like that will encourage new people to come along...anyway a win is a win.

I think some schools were still on their October break, so I'm hopeful the low attendance is partly down to that, with families being away. Really hopeful we'll start seeing increased attendances again at the next home game.

by **RDW** Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:40 pm

Btw definitely worth checking out the Ashman try - Huw Jones would have been proud of the line he hit and finish, including shifting the ball to the other arm twice for hand offs!

by EWT Spoons Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:58 pm

I've not watched it back, I was there and the game wasn't one I wanted to rush home to rewatch, but from what I could see, Ashman had a nightmare with his lineouts. Is that right, or am I doing him a disservice?

by jimbopip Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:27 pm

I recorded the Luvvies' match and sat down to watch it yesterday...I tried, I really tried.
There are constants in the URC; Zebre can't buy a win, Dragons don't know how to win and the Luvvies are just plain dull.

I'm not sure whose fans I feel most sympathy for.

Glasgow's two performances against Irish sides has the alarm bells ringing. I said after the opening game that parts of it reminded me of most recent Ireland-Scotland matches; solid green wall of defenders, Scotland huff and puff and fail to score, Ireland play one out rugby and score lots. I know we eventually beat Leinster under 15's but we have conceded 59 points over two matches. On Saturday we had a 9 who was consistently passing two foot above the first receiver's head, a 10 who has no real kicking threat, a three quarter line who were constantly being suffocated by a very quick rush defence and a full back who rarely kicks.

Interestingly, we could have finised the game with

9. Dobie
10. Meatball you know a fly half who could kick the ball, thus giving the rush defence something to think about)
12. Jordan yes he would have had more time and wouldn't have been climbing his stepladder to get the pass from Hornito
13. Stafford
14. McKay he is very good when he attacks space but his lack of a kicking game meant he made very little impact on Saturday
15. Dimples this way he would have been able to hit the line where he saw space rather than be swamped by the rush defence.

by **BigGee** Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:36 am

A contract extension till the end of 2027 for Nathan McBeth.

Looks like the Warriors see him as the future of the club at LH going forward, hopefully he'll be coming into his best years now. I will be interesting to see if he works his way into the Scotland squad as well.

by **George Carlin** Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:04 am

BigGee wrote:A contract extension till the end of 2027 for Nathan McBeth.

Looks like the Warriors see him as the future of the club at LH going forward, hopefully he'll be coming into his best years now. I will be interesting to see if he works his way into the Scotland squad as well.

So presumably we're not allowed to say his surname. Nickname 'Voldemorte'? Is that opaque enough for you, Jim?

by jimbopip Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:47 am

GC, we have a House Elf and Gregor Brown has the Weasely Barnet...so why not a Voldemort?
I'm just wondering when Hermione will turn up.

by jimbopip Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:43 am

George Carlin wrote:
BigGee wrote:A contract extension till the end of 2027 for Nathan McBeth.

Looks like the Warriors see him as the future of the club at LH going forward, hopefully he'll be coming into his best years now. I will be interesting to see if he works his way into the Scotland squad as well.
So presumably we're not allowed to say his surname. Nickname 'Voldemorte'? Is that opaque enough for you, Jim?

It has just dawned on me that we could call him The Thane Of Cadder.
Opacity guaranteed.

by Tramptastic Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:21 pm

jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
BigGee wrote:A contract extension till the end of 2027 for Nathan McBeth.

Looks like the Warriors see him as the future of the club at LH going forward, hopefully he'll be coming into his best years now. I will be interesting to see if he works his way into the Scotland squad as well.
So presumably we're not allowed to say his surname. Nickname 'Voldemorte'? Is that opaque enough for you, Jim?

It has just dawned on me that we could call him The Thane Of Cadder.
Opacity guaranteed.

Good punnage, considering Cadder's biggest asset is its cemetary, probably doesn't bode well for young Voldemorts career?

3 comments, 2-stage nickname established, already forgotten the players original name. Job done.

by jimbopip Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:12 pm

Let's talk about rugby for a wee change.

There has been a trend in football, ever since Ajax in the 1970's, for clubs to have a unified coaching system. i.e. the under 9's play exactly the same way the first team play. The most obvious benefit is that when a player moves up through the sides he knows what his role is and what everyone else is doing. Ok this is a massive over simplification...but there are props reading this.

Now, the latest coach to try to make the Luvvies into a rugby team has said that his first priority is for them to develop a kicking game: they were one of the teams who kicked least in the URC last season. The Warriors started against the Craggies with a non kicking 10, a 9 whose box kicking is probably the worst aspect of his game and a 15 who seldom puts boot to ball. Not to mention the fact that Meatball seems less likely to get on the pitch these days than Alex Salmon is to win a Feminist Of The Year award. Scotland also were down near the bottom in kicks at the World Cup. (Mind you Dancer is a fantastic tactical kicker).

Is there a pattern here? You can't play the fastest rugby in the world if you don't have the ball. If you kick as often as Wales or Engurland you'll usually have 40-45% possession. Is the unified coaching model putting the emphasis on keeping the ball in hand and seeing kicking as secondary to keeping the ball in hand?

I'm not sure about this so I will just leave it to wiser heads to comment.

by jimbopip Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:09 pm

Teams oot

Kebble-Scouser-Ragnar Bhatti-Fraser-Sordoni

Peterson-Gray Cummings-Samuels

Fagerson-Big Shona-Darge Ventner

Hornito House Elf

Jordan Meatball

Wee Shona-Stafford

Seba-Smith-Rowe

A very strong looking Warriors side.

The pack looks very big on grunt and hopefully the lineout will function better than it did last week.
Hornito needs a better game than last week if he wants to be the starting 9.
With Jordan-Shona-Stafford I don't think there will be a lot of kicking; if the Stormers flood the 10-13 line they can stop our back three getting into the game. Just like the Craggies di. Just like Leinster thirds managed to do for large parts of the game. Just like Ireland regularly do to Scotland.
Rumour has it Meatball's jersey is being sponsored by Scotland Ambulance Services. Use only in a medical emergency.

by Tramptastic Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:12 pm

I'd slightly disagree Jimbo

The General has a point scoring philosphy of 7-14-21 beats 3-6-9. This is good and some people might think Toonie thinks along the same lines but i dont think Toonie does have a points structure beyond "do what feels right". Pros and Cons to both.

The fundamental difference though is the General instructs his troops to go for 7 in any way possible. Its not often that harem scarem and we can see this through the scouser being top try scorer last season. The 7 is always on at Glasgow and a lot of the time its via the maul. Toonie wants 7 points to come via his wingers cause thats the only place he sees space/its where Scotlands point earners are. However, this limits Scotland quite a lot because teams know to close down the space before it gets wide.

Glasgow are far more bloody minded than Scotland.

Blair has a similar attacking inclination to Toonie however a lot of Edinburghs tries heavily involved the backrow with Mata, Crosbie, Watson and Ritchie running amock in midfield or out in the wide channels. Blairism failed because of a lack of conversion rate off the tee with Boffelli injured for a huge chunk of the season.

Interestingly when Cotter was involved in Scotland he had a unified coaching system through the academies (this is second hand information from someone involved at the time), i dont know if toonie has a similar influence?

by bsando Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:33 pm

At a glance that second row pairing looks pretty light weight. I know Peterson is in as cover but why not give the young locks a start? Peterson is at the end of his club career.

by jimbopip Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:35 pm

Tramptastic wrote:I'd slightly disagree Jimbo You're not the first. Not by a long way.

The General has a point scoring philosphy of 7-14-21 beats 3-6-9. This is good and some people might think Toonie thinks along the same lines but i dont think Toonie does have a points structure beyond "do what feels right". Pros and Cons to both. I didn't mean penalties and kicking for the post rather than corners. i meant more in the sense of kicking to dictate where the game is played, which Dancer does very well, and also kicking to give the opposition the ball in the hope of winning a turnover/penalty. The top 4 plus Wales and England all kick more than we do and all had a better World Cup than us. I believe Fiji would have beaten England if they hadn't persisted in trying to play from deep in their own half.

The fundamental difference though is the General instructs his troops to go for 7 in any way possible. Its not often that harem scarem and we can see this through the scouser being top try scorer last season. The 7 is always on at Glasgow and a lot of the time its via the maul. Toonie wants 7 points to come via his wingers cause thats the only place he sees space/its where Scotlands point earners are. However, this limits Scotland quite a lot because teams know to close down the space before it gets wide. Agreeing with most of this but, in very simplistic terms, if I was setting up the Stormers for tomorrow night I would be telling the flankers to let Glasgow have their ruck ball and focus on getting into Jordan's face quickly. Then I'd tell the open side winger to jam in on 13 while 12 and thirteen blitz Wee Shona. Or do what the Craggies did and constantly have a shooter running at Dimples. Glasgow really struggled to hold onto the ball and create pressure by going through the phases.

Glasgow are far more bloody minded than Scotland. That's not as difficult as it sounds.

Blair has a similar attacking inclination to Toonie however a lot of Edinburghs tries heavily involved the backrow with Mata, Crosbie, Watson and Ritchie running amock in midfield or out in the wide channels. Blairism failed because of a lack of conversion rate off the tee with Boffelli injured for a huge chunk of the season. I could paraphrase this as "Scottish side fail due to lack of efficient kicker" but I'm better than that.

Interestingly when Cotter was involved in Scotland he had a unified coaching system through the academies (this is second hand information from someone involved at the time), i dont know if toonie has a similar influence? He probably does, like most coaches he will be very process driven and a bit of a control freak.

by jimbopip Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:35 pm

bsando wrote:At a glance that second row pairing looks pretty light weight. I know Peterson is in as cover but why not give the young locks a start? Peterson is at the end of his club career.

Peterson

Gray

Lightweight Shocked

not in pounds and ounces they're not. Metrically, chin

by jimbopip Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:20 pm

No Seaman for the next 10-12 weeks.
Dimples has an injured toe, which may be serious but may not.
We have lots of cover at wing, so Seaman will be missed but; Seba, Mckay, Rowe, Trotter and Cordero aren't too shabby.
In the centres, without Dimples, we have; Wee Shona, Stafford, Tom Jordan and Duncan Munn.
If we move Jordan to 12 we are suddenly very light at 10. If Meatball could ever be described as light. Shocked

Is it not a bit early in the season for a looming injury crisis?

by **BigGee** Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:27 pm

I ssid before the start of the season that FH was going to be our weak spot and that looks like it will be the case.

Franco does not seem to trust Ross Thompson even putting Duncy on the bench where he gets a 5 minute cameo at the end of the game, ahead of him.

Tom Jordans has a lot of positives, but his lack of a tactical kicking game, is a huge problem for a FH at this level.

If he were to get injured now, we would be up the proverbial gum tree without a paddle.

by Hazel Sapling Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:26 am

Edinburgh team up

15. Blair Kinghorn (135)

14. Wes Goosen (12)
13. Mark Bennett (90)
12. Matt Currie (20)
11. Duhan van der Merwe (75)

10. Ben Healy (2)
9. Charlie Shiel (57)

1. Pierre Schoeman (98)
2. Dave Cherry (73)
3. WP Nel (189)
4. Glen Young (24)
5. Grant Gilchrist (189) CAPTAIN
6. Tom Dodd (1)
7. Hamish Watson (141)
8. Luke Crosbie (86)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman (1)
17. Boan Venter (48)
18. Javan Sebastian (2)
19. Marshall Sykes (43)
20. Connor Boyle (34)
21. Hector Patterson*
22. James Lang (38)
23. Chris Dean (137)

Unavailable: Luan de Bruin (back), Darcy Graham (hip), Jake Henry (knee), Mikey Jones (ankle), Viliame Mata (shoulder), Cam Neild (knee), Ben Vellacott (personal reasons), Sam Skinner (knee), Scott Steele (hip), Nathan Sweeney (hamstring), Tim Swiel (ankle), Jamie Ritchie (shoulder)

Quite a long injury list

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:56 am

Hector Patterson, the young reserve SH, is still U20s eligible and I beleive is quite highly rated.

It will be good to see how he gets on.

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:13 am

Ollie Keeble certainly is a penalty magnet!

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:19 am

I'm actually able to watch this thanks to the recent clock change - 11 hour time difference now.

Glasgow doing what Glasgow do so far.

Stupid yellow from Roos.

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:21 am

2 YCs in 2 mins for tip tackles by the Stormers, what is going on with their tackling technique!

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:22 am

It's hilarious hearing Ryan Wilson judging all the sh!thousery when he would have been in the middle of it if he was still playing! Laugh

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:23 am

Johnny the Scouser over for his second try, he really is irrepressible!

I love the way the Glasgow Trumpeter (Ollie Smith's dad) plays the Z Cars theme when he scores!

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:26 am

BigGee wrote:Johnny the Scouser over for his second try, he really is irrepressible!

I love the way the Glasgow Trumpeter (Ollie Smith's dad) plays the Z Cars theme when he scores!

Ha that's amazing that it's Smith's dad.

Johnny the Scouser really has a remarkable record, but he also has a well drilled Glasgow pack to get him over the line each time.

by jimbopip Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:40 am

A solid first 40 from the Rugby Club. Much better than last week. Hornito has been much more accurate passing from the ruck. Jordan is moving the ball better as well. The back row have been superb too. Ollie Kebble has been smashed backwards twice and conceded a handful of penalties. Bhatti on before the hour mark methinks.

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:45 am

Who is the Saffer co-commentator again? He's very good.

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:46 am

Get Ollie Keeble off, another penalty!

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:47 am

RDW wrote:Who is the Saffer co-commentator again? He's very good.

Bobby Skinstad, he is very good, knows his stuff

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:48 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Who is the Saffer co-commentator again? He's very good.

Bobby Skinstad, he is very good, knows his stuff

Legend!

What's happened the Kebble btw? 3/4 years ago he was a regular for Scotland and looked a top LH. The last few years he's barely been picked. Seems to be getting a run this season though.

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:51 am

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Who is the Saffer co-commentator again? He's very good.

Bobby Skinstad, he is very good, knows his stuff

Legend!

What's happened the Kebble btw? 3/4 years ago he was a regular for Scotland and looked a top LH. The last few years he's barely been picked. Seems to be getting a run this season though.

A lot of injuries and he seems to be a 40/50 min player at best, which does not really work at international level. Did I mention as well that he gives away a lot of stupid penalties!

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:55 am

Glasgow need to be careful here - game isn't over yet and the Stormers are looking feisty.

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:20 am

Chunky Weir showing how it's done!

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:29 am

Well got to say that was a good result for the Warriors.

A scoreless second half but the work had been done and the defence was solid against a better performance from the Stormers.

A slightly more tactical game from Glasgow and good to see the old boy Duncy still knows the measure of the touchlines.

All in all though, much better than last weekend.

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:31 am

Good win Glasgow but also an opportunity lost for a BP.

by Welshmushroom Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:35 am

Reckon thats a great win for Glasgow - not many sides will beat them when they are at home this year

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:35 am

RDW wrote:Good win Glasgow but also an opportunity lost for a BP.

Blimey, you are hard to please, it was the Stormers!

by **RDW** Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:47 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Good win Glasgow but also an opportunity lost for a BP.

Blimey, you are hard to please, it was the Stormers!

It's an accurate comment though!

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