Australia v England, 11 June

      
AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
11 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

44 Played 44
25 Won 18
1 Drawn 1
18 Lost 25
940 Points 674

B. Recent Form

3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia

29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010 - Subiaco Oval, Perth: 27 – 17 to Australia

C. Teams

AUSTRALIA 

Israel Folau; Dane Haylett-Petty, Tevita Kuridrani, Samu Kerevi, Rob Horne; Bernard Foley, Nick Phipps; Scott Sio, Stephen Moore (captain), Greg Holmes, Rory Arnold, Rob Simmons, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, David Pocock.

Replacements: Tatafu Polota-Nau, James Slipper, Sekope Kepu, James Horwill, Dean Mumm, Sean McMahon, Nick Frisby, Christian Lealiifano

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown; 14. Anthony Watson, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Luther Burrell, 11. Marland Yarde; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Dylan Hartley, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Chris Robshaw, 7. James Haskell, 8. Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: 16. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 17. Matt Mullan, 18. Paul Hill, 19. Joe Launchbury, 20. Courtney Lawes, 21. Danny Care, 22. George Ford, 23. Jack Nowell.

That win over Australia in Nov 2010 was probably one of the best games of rugby I've ever seen England play.

Good times.

Eddie is at it already. His prediction of a hostile media is off the mark, especially with the NRL and AFL seasons in full swing. I think he has forgotten that for a lot of Aussies, rugby happens only every 4 years at the World Cup. A tour by England isn't a big deal for most. A shame, but that is the way it is. Newspapers today are filled with the State of Origin series (league) and will be for the next few weeks.  

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/wallabies-vs-england-june-2016-test-series-eddie-jones-prepares-for-hostile-aussie-tour-20160601-gp9lsu.html

Sometimes I think back to just how good that England team was under MJ, and wonder what might have been, then I think of how bad they were as well (I blame Ford and Wells) and am kind of grateful.

I don't have the "what might have been" feeling, as I think that side had run its course by the time MJ left, but they were fantastic for a few games between summer 2010 and midway through the 2011 six nations.

The strange thing was though that there were almost no players seemingly in their prime at the time. The Moodys, Wilkinsons and Tindalls were all clinging on, and Ashton, foden, Hartley, Wood etc all relative newbies (albeit that as it turns out Ashton, Foden and Wood all played their best rugby for England back then). MJ would have had to go on a squad rebuilding exercise the same as Lancaster attempted which, given he had already shown a tendency to stick with experience and was publicly quoted as saying young players aren't all they're cracked up to be, probably wasn't his style.

Great loss if he doesn't reenter the sport in some capacity though.

Eddie had his bags checked???!!!

This Means War!!!!

Icu wrote: Eddie is at it already. His prediction of a hostile media is off the mark, especially with the NRL and AFL seasons in full swing. I think he has forgotten that for a lot of Aussies, rugby happens only every 4 years at the World Cup. A tour by England isn't a big deal for most. A shame, but that is the way it is. Newspapers today are filled with the State of Origin series (league) and will be for the next few weeks.  

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/wallabies-vs-england-june-2016-test-series-eddie-jones-prepares-for-hostile-aussie-tour-20160601-gp9lsu.html

Pardon me, Eddie the gob doing his thing? Somebody should have warned you about mentioning this fact, sorry. It was nice knowing you .

thomh wrote:I don't have the "what might have been" feeling, as I think that side had run its course by the time MJ left, but they were fantastic for a few games between summer 2010 and midway through the 2011 six nations.

The strange thing was though that there were almost no players seemingly in their prime at the time. The Moodys, Wilkinsons and Tindalls were all clinging on, and Ashton, foden, Hartley, Wood etc all relative newbies (albeit that as it turns out Ashton, Foden and Wood all played their best rugby for England back then). MJ would have had to go on a squad rebuilding exercise the same as Lancaster attempted which, given he had already shown a tendency to stick with experience and was publicly quoted as saying young players aren't all they're cracked up to be, probably wasn't his style.

Great loss if he doesn't reenter the sport in some capacity though.

That's true.

I guess what sticks most is that I don't think we've ever seen a coach get the full potential out of players like that. Eddie may do it now, but those were fantastic times in hindsight. Without the handicap of ford and Wells, MJ may have gone on to more too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aHiICyeYISA

It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

lostinwales wrote:It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

Are you really suggesting that EJ has mates? Or is he one of those Aussie mates where to an Aussie every single guy and girl is a 'mate'?

WUM.

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

Are you really suggesting that EJ has mates? Or is he one of those Aussie mates where to an Aussie every single guy and girl is a 'mate'?

Aussie customs stole Eddie's strategy and teamsheet plans.... confiscated them as evidence of Anti-Fair-Goism.

If you're going to have a pop at Eddie, at least get your facts right...Mate.

What really did for Johnsons tenure was the sheer volume of injuries his squads sustained. Sure there were a few happy accinets in players who got chances...but it also forced him into selecting a team against a near ful strength All Blacks that started Erinle , Bell, and Payne.

Its difficult to plan and build when youre having to pick 4th choices in some positions.

England seem to have improved massively in managing and protecting their players. Its no coincidence that the Grand Slam came in a year that Englands injuries were relatively light.
EJ isn't missing that many for this tour either. Tuillagi has barely played for several years now so hardly even counts toward the withdrawls.

If they can keep the squad toegther like this it will really help develop a proper team

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

Are you really suggesting that EJ has mates? Or is he one of those Aussie mates where to an Aussie every single guy and girl is a 'mate'?

It does sound like one of those Australian things

Ok suggestions for starting XV:

1 Mullan
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 Kruis
6 Robshaw
7 Clifford
8 B. Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 Watson
12 Farrell
13 Joseph
14 Nowell
15 Brown

16 Mako 17 George 18 Hill 19 Launchbury 20 Haskell 21 Care 22 Slade 23 Yarde

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

Are you really suggesting that EJ has mates? Or is he one of those Aussie mates where to an Aussie every single guy and girl is a 'mate'?

So, Wales are garbage on the pitch, and you're the best they apparently have to offer on the Rugby Union v2606 forum.

Not looking good is it.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok suggestions for starting XV:

1 Mullan
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 Kruis
6 Robshaw
7 Clifford
8 B. Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 Watson
12 Farrell
13 Joseph
14 Nowell
15 Brown

16 Mako 17 George 18 Hill 19 Launchbury 20 Haskell 21 Care 22 Slade 23 Yarde

Alex Goode for Brown at FB - did AG make the squad? I can't remember.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok suggestions for starting XV:

1 Mullan
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 Kruis
6 Robshaw
7 Clifford
8 B. Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 Watson
12 Farrell
13 Joseph
14 Nowell
15 Brown

16 Mako 17 George 18 Hill 19 Launchbury 20 Haskell 21 Care 22 Slade 23 Yarde

Would be very worried about 10 and 12. A 10 low on confidence and form and the other a 10 shoehorned into the 12 shirt again. England got away with it in the 6 nations but it shouldn't be persisted with in my opinion.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok suggestions for starting XV:

1 Mullan
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 Kruis
6 Robshaw
7 Clifford
8 B. Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 Watson
12 Farrell
13 Joseph
14 Nowell
15 Brown

16 Mako 17 George 18 Hill 19 Launchbury 20 Haskell 21 Care 22 Slade 23 Yarde

I can see the coaches going with that back line. Goode may get in ahead of Brown - but he is perhaps more likely to feature if they go for Te'o or Burrell at 12. Backs on bench I expect to be Care, Te'o and Daly.

As to the forwards, I feel Mako is much more effective off the bench but believe he will start. Jones seems to view clifford as primarily an 8, so I expect him to be on the bench rather than starting at 7. George will be 16.

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok suggestions for starting XV:

1 Mullan
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 Kruis
6 Robshaw
7 Clifford
8 B. Vunipola

9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 Watson
12 Farrell
13 Joseph
14 Nowell
15 Brown

16 Mako 17 George 18 Hill 19 Launchbury 20 Haskell 21 Care 22 Slade 23 Yarde

Would be very worried about 10 and 12. A 10 low on confidence and form and the other a 10 shoehorned into the 12 shirt again. England got away with it in the 6 nations but it shouldn't be persisted with in my opinion.

Having Farrell in as goal kicker does solve the Ford kicking issue and take the pressure off him to do the stuff he does well.

The problem with Farrell at 12 is you lose and running threat down there, as a lot of him to put his body on the line and encourage himm to do the things he tends to get carded for.

I can see the argument for it, espeically as theres still a lack of stand out options at 12.
Would you be happier with Farrell at 10 and Burrell at 12? I wouldnt.

Theres not really a clear cut right answer as usual

Gooseberry It's generally not good to pick someone to make up for another player not playing well enough.

Lancaster and England did that with T.Youngs,Parling and Wood in the RWC. Picking Parling and Wood to look after Youngs at lineout time which hurt the scrum and physicality of the team.

Farrell's primary job shouldn't be to mollycoddle Ford. Farrell is also not as defensively strong at centre.

Farrell at 10 and Burrell at 12 is not ideal but better with the in form Goode at 15.

If Slade had played well in the AP final I might have thought about playing him at 12 but his lack of composure for most of the game was poor. It's only one game of course but a big one.

A couple of years ago England went very well with Care as the main playmaker and Farrell as 10. I don't know if Care has been as good since but if he is I could live with that.

I don't know how 'low on confidence' Ford actually is though. No question his kicking from the tee was beyond awful, but somehow that back line really clicked at times and he must take some credit for that.

lostinwales I wouldn't have called Care the main playmaker, he certainly did his bit but so did Farrell. Burrell looked at home at 13.

Well Ford has looked pretty low of confidence for Bath and he's not been playing particularly well for England. Have to take some credit but then again others must too.

I would prefer

Mako
George
Cole
Kruis
Launchbury
Itoje
Billy
Haskell
Care
Farrell
Watson
Burrell
JJ
Nowell
Goode

Bench: Mullan, Hartley, Hill, Clifford, Robshaw, Youngs, Slade, Brown

Enables Eng to attack the lineouts. Removes Ford from the firing line. Whilst it will never happen I also think Hartley needs more game time and George would actually be a better starting no.2. Itoje obviously provides 2nd row cover and might move there if required.

hugehandoff wrote:I would prefer

Mako
George
Cole
Kruis
Launchbury
Itoje
Billy
Haskell
Care
Farrell
Watson
Burrell
JJ
Nowell
Goode

Bench: Mullan, Hartley, Hill, Clifford, Robshaw, Youngs, Slade, Brown

Enables Eng to attack the lineouts. Removes Ford from the firing line. Whilst it will never happen I also think Hartley needs more game time and George would actually be a better starting no.2. Itoje obviously provides 2nd row cover and might move there if required.

My team too. My only doubt is Burrell.

hugehandoff wrote:I would prefer

Mako
George
Cole
Kruis
Launchbury
Itoje
Billy
Haskell
Care
Farrell
Watson
Burrell
JJ
Nowell
Goode

Bench: Mullan, Hartley, Hill, Clifford, Robshaw, Youngs, Slade, Brown

Who is the captain?

I don't see Ford being dropped or this first game. He'll stay pretty honest to the 6n team I think with 1 or 2 tweaks. And one will be the back row. Probably Clifford or Harrison coming in at 7 over Haskell who I don't think as done himself any favours.

Whilst the Wales game wasn't a huge test in hindsight....I think Yarde is the player who made the biggest statement. I doubted him big time..but I thought he was very good.

Whether he forces in to the starting lineup im not sure...but definitely on the bench, with Nowell and Watson able to cover FB if needed.

Jimpy wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

Are you really suggesting that EJ has mates? Or is he one of those Aussie mates where to an Aussie every single guy and girl is a 'mate'?

So, Wales are garbage on the pitch, and you're the best they apparently have to offer on the Rugby Union v2606 forum.

Not looking good is it.

Just having a laff with some of the decent posters, ones who actually watch rugby and don't pretend to be something they're not. You're a bit Mikey and Wales obsessed which is somewhat concerning. I'm sure we'd all appreciate you moving on after your comments about homosexuals and travellers .

mikey_dragon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:It's all going to be good fun really. Two coaches who know each other very well, probably get on well and won't hesitate to do anything to get one over on the other.

Are you really suggesting that EJ has mates? Or is he one of those Aussie mates where to an Aussie every single guy and girl is a 'mate'?

So, Wales are garbage on the pitch, and you're the best they apparently have to offer on the Rugby Union v2606 forum.

Not looking good is it.

Just having a laff with some of the decent posters, ones who actually watch rugby and don't pretend to be something they're not. You're a bit Mikey and Wales obsessed which is somewhat concerning. I'm sure we'd all appreciate you moving on after your comments about homosexuals and travellers .

I refer you to the comments made by the moderators to you earlier on in other articles regarding England v Wales and rest my case. I obviously touched a nerve there

.

Anyway, seeing as the Aus S15 teams aren't playing particulary well I'm going to predict England winning that first test - and from then on who knows.

beshocked wrote:Gooseberry It's generally not good to pick someone to make up for another player not playing well enough.

Lancaster and England did that with T.Youngs,Parling and Wood in the RWC. Picking Parling and Wood to look after Youngs at lineout time which hurt the scrum and physicality of the team.

Farrell's primary job shouldn't be to mollycoddle Ford. Farrell is also not as defensively strong at centre.

Farrell at 10 and Burrell at 12 is not ideal but better with the in form Goode at 15.

If Slade had played well in the AP final I might have thought about playing him at 12 but his lack of composure for most of the game was poor. It's only one game of course but a big one.

I don't always agree with you Beshocked (although I daresay in hindsight that's often been my error), but I think this point is spot on. Lancaster had a habit of picking players with deficiencies in their core skills, then picking others to compensate for that.

That said, goal kicking doesn't have to be the role of the 10. Jones needs to find the right balance of the best player in each position, along with a reliable goal kicker (which may require compromise). It seems Farrell is the only reliable goal-kicker we have, so on that basis, pretty much has to play. I guess it's then a trade-off. Are England weakened more by having Farrell at 12, or by not having Ford at 10?

Farrells been v good this year, Ford struggling. I'd be ok with either, as ever its the 12 13 combo which is more interesting.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I don't see Ford being dropped or this first game. He'll stay pretty honest to the 6n team I think with 1 or 2 tweaks. And one will be the back row. Probably Clifford or Harrison coming in at 7 over Haskell who I don't think as done himself any favours.

Whilst the Wales game wasn't a huge test in hindsight....I think Yarde is the player who made the biggest statement. I doubted him big time..but I thought he was very good.

Whether he forces in to the starting lineup im not sure...but definitely on the bench, with Nowell and Watson able to cover FB if needed.

Its funny/sad/not surprising really but the worst performing winger by some distance on Sunday was the great North.

Yarde was powerful and very busy. Happy days

I thought Amos looked a real talent for them on Sunday, be interesting to see if he gets more game time

In case you're interested to know, Amos should have been a starter for Wales well over a year go, especially seeing as the other options were Cuthbert and James...
Yarde looked good, I don't think I've ever seen him play poorly for England. If I were EJ i would persist with Yarde and Watson for a while.

EJ is spoiled for choice, innit. The eternal quagmire for an English coach.... too much of a good thing. Kids in sweet shops always want to try some other flavour

mikey_dragon wrote:In case you're interested to know, Amos should have been a starter for Wales well over a year go, especially seeing as the other options were Cuthbert and James...
Yarde looked good, I don't think I've ever seen him play poorly for England. If I were EJ i would persist with Yarde and Watson for a while.

We'll see. Watson is a no brainer and is slowly turning into a top class wing. I think the game on Sunday played to Yarde's strengths and he was doing a good Nowell impression in that he got involved so much. Nowell is arguably the man in possession and has had a much better year overall.

Isn't Slade fit again to slot in at 12?

If so, why on earth are we talking about Ford playing instead of Farrell?

His mobility, confidence and decision making has all been sub-par by his standard this season (not helped by his team at times) so why do we think that having David Pocock throw him around like a dog's chew toy is a good idea?

Farrell and Slade in a backline is an interesting option that few have discussed. With both of them being considered at 10 and 12 I think most are viewing it as one or the other. They would be rock solid defensively too.

Slade has showed some off form as well since returning from injury though GC.

I expect that for the first test we will see as close as possible to the 6 Nations side though.

Because hes a quality player and a little bit to do with Slade dropping a catch, dropping off a tackle and scooping a ball forward in 1 game means hes not ready for some. Jones has also seemed to indicate he wants Roberts mk 2 at 12 meaning Joseph, Slade and Dalt at 13 (or Slade covering 10).

George Carlin wrote:Isn't Slade fit again to slot in at 12?

If so, why on earth are we talking about Ford playing instead of Farrell?

His mobility, confidence and decision making has all been sub-par by his standard this season (not helped by his team at times) so why do we think that having David Pocock throw him around like a dog's chew toy is a good idea?

Slade didn't get many games in the AP after returning from a broken leg, and his form in the AP final was quite poor. I'm not surprised Jones has elected to stay with Ford really, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Slade break into the England team by the Autumn, either at 10 or 12 (he can play both) if ford continues to be off-colour (which according to Jones he isn't).

Are Oz fans expecting a similar side to the RWC with the absent experience of Genia, Giteau, AAC, Mitchell, etc replaced by guys who have been around the squads before. Or will some new names be featuring?

1.Sio
2.Moore (c)
3.Kepu
4.Mumm
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Pocock

9.Phipps
10.Foley

11.Horne
12.Lealifano
13.Kuridrani
14.Morahan?
15.Folau

16.Polota-Nau
17.Slipper
18.Holmes
19.Horwill
20.McCalman
21.Frisby
22.Hunt/Kerevi?
23.Hodge/Haylett-Perry?

Nowell is undroppable right now no matter how anyone played vs a terrible Wales.

king_carlos wrote:Are Oz fans expecting a similar side to the RWC with the absent experience of Genia, Giteau, AAC, Mitchell, etc replaced by guys who have been around the squads before. Or will some new names be featuring?

1.Sio
2.Moore (c)
3.Kepu
4.Mumm
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Pocock

9.Phipps
10.Foley

11.Horne
12.Lealifano
13.Kuridrani
14.Morahan?
15.Folau

16.Polota-Nau
17.Slipper
18.Holmes
19.Horwill
20.McCalman
21.Frisby
22.Hunt/Kerevi?
23.Hodge/Haylett-Perry?

Think Toomua at 12, and possibly Arnold as starting or bench lock are the most likely changes to that

BamBam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Are Oz fans expecting a similar side to the RWC with the absent experience of Genia, Giteau, AAC, Mitchell, etc replaced by guys who have been around the squads before. Or will some new names be featuring?

1.Sio
2.Moore (c)
3.Kepu
4.Mumm
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Pocock

9.Phipps
10.Foley

11.Horne
12.Lealifano
13.Kuridrani
14.Morahan?
15.Folau

16.Polota-Nau
17.Slipper
18.Holmes
19.Horwill
20.McCalman
21.Frisby
22.Hunt/Kerevi?
23.Hodge/Haylett-Perry?

Think Toomua at 12, and possibly Arnold as starting or bench lock are the most likely changes to that

Toomua isn't in the squad BamBam. Presumably due to him moving away from Super Rugby.

I've just realised Kane Douglas isn't either though Horwill or Arnold could all take that spot I guess.

Really? Toomua and Kuridrani are one of the best centre combinations around, but suppose they've got to move on given he doesn't fit the 60 cap criteria

BamBam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Are Oz fans expecting a similar side to the RWC with the absent experience of Genia, Giteau, AAC, Mitchell, etc replaced by guys who have been around the squads before. Or will some new names be featuring?

1.Sio
2.Moore (c)
3.Kepu
4.Mumm
5.Simmons
6.Fardy
7.Hooper
8.Pocock

9.Phipps
10.Foley

11.Horne
12.Lealifano
13.Kuridrani
14.Morahan?
15.Folau

16.Polota-Nau
17.Slipper
18.Holmes
19.Horwill
20.McCalman
21.Frisby
22.Hunt/Kerevi?
23.Hodge/Haylett-Perry?

Think Toomua at 12, and possibly Arnold as starting or bench lock are the most likely changes to that

The forwards are well settled but the backs are all over the shop at the moment.

This was supposed to be the series where Karmichael Hunt emerged as the new 12, but he strained his groin and cannot be 100% yet. Christian Lealiifano still hasn't caught up with the squad yet because his wife is about to give birth. You could stick Folau in the centre (where he's played before), but he has never played 12 so you could either try him there or have a specialist like Samu Kerevi who has bugger all international experience. Cheika might regret leaving Giteau in France this time.

I think that Glasgow's biggest waste of money since salad, Mr Taqele Naiyaravoro will at least be on the bench.

If Nick Skelton is fit, I would be surprised to see Oz without him. Great at destroying mauls, powerful in the scrum and at carrying. Worst case is he benches from my point of view.

Foley has looked off the boil this season but Lealifano has not jumped off the screen to take it from him.

Folau has been switched into 13 a lot for the Waratahs and this may have been an order from up high. If it is, Kuridrani/Folau could be the centre options. Have not seen enough Rebels games to comment much on either of the 2 other full backs in the squad.

Also James Slipper is about to turn 27 on Monday and already has 74 caps in 6 years. Must have played nearly every match for Aus