Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 22nd June : TEST 1 BUILDUP

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:00 pm

So, it's only a week to go before the first Lions test for 4 years.

Gatland has a host of injuries and a game against the Brumbies to manoeuvre while deciding the 23 players who will take to the pitch next Saturday.

Christian Wade and Brad Barritt have both been called up to cover for injury concerns over Jamie Roberts, Manu Tuilagi, Tommy Bowe and George North

My team for Saturday

1. Maku Vunipola
2. Tom Youngs
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Tom Croft
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. George North (Simon Zebo)
12. Jonathan Davies
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Richard Hibbard
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Dan Cole
19. Richie Gray
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Ben Youngs
22. Owen Farrell
23. Manu Tuilagi/Stuart Hogg

Thoughts?

by jelly Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Wonder if O'Brien might get the bench spot ahead of Tipuric as he covers more options?

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:04 pm

jelly wrote:Wonder if O'Brien might get the bench spot ahead of Tipuric as he covers more options?

Probably, however, if things go wrong at the breakdown, Tipuric would have a huge impact of the bench - and you have the option to play two 7s in the second half if things go wrong

SOB could start over Croft, but I have a feeling Gatland favours Croft

by captain carrantuohil Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:08 pm

Do we really need cover for both props on the bench? Would rather have Tipuric AND Croft/O'Brien (whichever isn't selected for the starting XV) touching wood. Think the OP has the starting XV spot on, as it happens, although have a feeling that the brains trust may go with Heaslip at 8 instead.

by glamorganalun Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:12 pm

wales606 wrote:So, it's only a week to go before the first Lions test for 4 years.

Gatland has a host of injuries and a game against the Brumbies to manoeuvre while deciding the 23 players who will take to the pitch next Saturday.

Christian Wade and Brad Barritt have both been called up to cover for injury concerns over Jamie Roberts, Manu Tuilagi, Tommy Bowe and George North

My team for Saturday

1. Maku Vunipola
2. Tom Youngs
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Tom Croft
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. George North (Simon Zebo)
12. Jonathan Davies
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Richard Hibbard
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Dan Cole
19. Richie Gray
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Ben Youngs
22. Owen Farrell
23. Manu Tuilagi/Stuart Hogg

Thoughts?

I think you are spot on if Roberts is out, I am not a great fan of Faletau but Heaslip only showed up on 70mins. Toby tends to fumble the ball at the back of the scrum but so does Heaslip.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:26 pm

Heres my two pennies worth for next week:

Vunipola (Done all asked of him deserves the chance)
Youngs (None of the hookers claimed shirt the shirt Youngs went well today and Hibbard is good impact)
A Jones (Enough said)
AWJ (Really took his chance today)
POC (See A Jones)
Croft (Storming game another more than staked his claim and that's from a Lydiate fan)
Faletau (Just think he would compliment Croft and Warburton better)
Warburton (Good game today but we know he will start anyway)

Phillips (Quiet today but his experience will be vital)
Sexton (See A Jones

North (Zebo if North not fit)
JD (Even if Roberts is fit, he was outstanding today)
BOD (See A Jones)
Zebo (if North fit, if not Cuthbert)

Halfpenny (See A Jones)

by asoreleftshoulder Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:27 pm

glamorganalun wrote:

I think you are spot on if Roberts is out, I am not a great fan of Faletau but Heaslip only showed up on 70mins. Toby tends to fumble the ball at the back of the scrum but so does Heaslip.

I can't comment on Faletua as I haven't seen enough of him but Heaslip is normally rock solid at the back of the scrum.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:28 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:Do we really need cover for both props on the bench? Would rather have Tipuric AND Croft/O'Brien (whichever isn't selected for the starting XV) touching wood. Think the OP has the starting XV spot on, as it happens, although have a feeling that the brains trust may go with Heaslip at 8 instead.

You have to have a full front row on the bench. That was why they increased to 8 replacements.

by captain carrantuohil Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:31 pm

Ah, thanks LT, I'm a bit behind the times there. Bit boring, that, since I think we only need three props to deal with whatever Australia's front row will offer. On the other hand, I can see our back row composition changing as the match changes/loses shape.

by nathan Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:33 pm

What does Ben Youngs have to do in order to get a start in your teams? Phillips has only really played well against the Baa Baa's and i keep hearing the "oh he'll play better next game, we need him".

What ever happened to picking on form?

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:33 pm

He could always go for a 6/2 split on the bench which would give the option of having say SOB and Tipuric but doubt he will.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:34 pm

Didn't think Youngs done any better today when he came on though I admit Phillips was quiet today.

by Duty281 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:35 pm

I would go for this:

The forwards:

Vunipola, Youngs, Cole, AW Jones, O'Connell, Croft, Tipuric, Heaslip.

The backs:

Youngs, Sexton, North, Davies, BOD, Cuthbert, Halfpenny.

Bench:

Jones, Corbisiero, Hibbard, Parling, Warburton, Phillips, Farrell, Hogg.

by captain carrantuohil Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:36 pm

In theory, you might be able to get away with Youngs and Hogg as the two backs replacements, BW. Most of our other fit replacement backs will barely have got off the plane in any case and Hogg can cover 10-15. With two goal-kickers already on the park, I'd question the need for Farrell among the bench-warmers. As you say, I doubt that this will happen, but it could work.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:38 pm

cc,

Yeah fair one didn't think of that combination it could work but like said doubt it

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:39 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:He could always go for a 6/2 split on the bench which would give the option of having say SOB and Tipuric but doubt he will.

Considering the injury rate to backs at the moment, I think it would be a big mistake to do a 6/2 split

A scrum half and Farrell or Hogg. If it's Farrell there is no back 3 cover, if it is Hogg then we are in huge trouble if Sexton gets injured

by Feckless Rogue Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:41 pm

I'm leaning more towards Youngs at 9. But Phillips is a big match animal.

by wayne Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:41 pm

CC, you could have Croft as 2nd row replacement and have SOB on the bench, I wouldn't but it is an option

by captain carrantuohil Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:42 pm

Many would argue that we are up cack creek in a barbed wire canoe if Sexton gets injured in any case, wales606!

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:45 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'm leaning more towards Youngs at 9. But Phillips is a big match animal.

FR,

I think that's what will get him the start, whoever starts will get my 110% support all I ask is that if they are having bit of a mare Gats has the crystals to make the big calls and sub whoever it maybe.

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:45 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'm leaning more towards Youngs at 9. But Phillips is a big match animal.

It's fairly even on form

Phillips can raise his game, when he comes out to play he is the best in the world at what he does - he is possibly the best defensive scrum half and he will control a game.

Youngs probably doesn't suit Gatland's gameplan to start with - he could make a bit impact off the bench against tired legs - especially if he is coming on with Tipuric, Gray and Hibbard, that will really stretch tired Aussie legs

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:49 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:Many would argue that we are up cack creek in a barbed wire canoe if Sexton gets injured in any case, wales606!

Farrell has played plenty of international rugby at 10 and I am sure he can manage to defend well in the 10 channel and give out the right passes and make the kicks - especially since Phillips can take over most of the running of the game from 9

Hogg on the other hand, has very little experience at 10 and there is potential for him to have a nightmare if he is suddenly put under international pressure at 10 - it is unfair on him tbh - there is also no 2nd 5/8th type at 12 to take the pressure off his kicking. JD2 can kick well left footed, but not move teams around the pitch like a flyhalf and neither can Hogg without experience kicking from flat.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:51 pm

I really think Farrell is getting more stick than he deserves, don't get me wrong if I see Sexton go down I will be thinking oh feck but I think Farrell would be ok when called upon.

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm really worried about these injuries

Looking like we will be missing Roberts, North and Bowe. We can cope without Roberts, although Tuilagi is still carrying a knock, but losing our 2 first choice and on form winger is a huge blow.

JD2 and O'Driscoll have to start simply so we have some creativity in midfield that may be lacking without North and Bowe coming in off their wings, Halfpenny might have to hit the line again which could expose us to a clever Aus kicking game - especially with Cuthbert being questionable in an arial battle, hopefully Zebo will be ok with his experience at FB.

I hope Australia don't play Barnes, I have nightmares about that man as a Wales fan and he always seems to have an excellent kicking display when he pulls on a gold jersey.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:57 pm

606,

On form I would pick JD and BOD anyway, though we know Doc will start if fit.

Bowe and North are losses if both out, if they are then I would go for Cuthbert and Zebo, Maitland was poor again today.

by wales606 Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:00 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
On form I would pick JD and BOD anyway, though we know Doc will start if fit.

.

That is true

If Roberts is fit, BOD could be the one that loses out.

But I really doubt Roberts will be fit

Gatland has said that players have to take a full part in training this week to be included, Roberts won't.

by Feckless Rogue Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:11 pm

I think Roberts has probably been the most disappointing player of the tour. I wouldn't have him in the test team.

Healy was a very good player to lose. In my opinion the worlds best loosehead. But there's no worries there because the players that have stepped in at loosehead have been good.

Bowe and North are huge losses. I'd go with Zebo and Cuthbert. Maitland has not impressed me at all.

by wales606 Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:21 am

So...Shane to start at 11?

by dragonbreath Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:40 am

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think Roberts has probably been the most disappointing player of the tour. I wouldn't have him in the test team.

Healy was a very good player to lose. In my opinion the worlds best loosehead. But there's no worries there because the players that have stepped in at loosehead have been good.

Bowe and North are huge losses. I'd go with Zebo and Cuthbert. Maitland has not impressed me at all.

That is just a bizzare comment? Doc was very good today and has done well in all the games he has played in. Had he played as well for us in the 6n we would have strolled to a GS this year.

Don't really understand what your agenda is but your opinion has no basis in reality

by Guest Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:50 am

I don't think Youngs was very good yesterday, certainly not enough to warrant dropping Phillps. Mikey was targetted a lot yesterday, but his passing was sound and he wasn't scragged. Youngs seemed to be setting up his runners a bit too and that, which is one thing Phillips gets criticised for.

by wales606 Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:59 pm

With the team for Tuesday named does anyone else worry it means that SOB and Tipuric won't be on the bench on Saturday? I guess it means Heaslip starts anyway

by asoreleftshoulder Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:30 pm

wales606 wrote:With the team for Tuesday named does anyone else worry it means that SOB and Tipuric won't be on the bench on Saturday? I guess it means Heaslip starts anyway

I'd say whichever of them is subbed first (as long as it's not injury related) will be the sub,personally I'd go for SoB just cos of his versatility.

by wales606 Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:42 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
wales606 wrote:With the team for Tuesday named does anyone else worry it means that SOB and Tipuric won't be on the bench on Saturday? I guess it means Heaslip starts anyway
I'd say whichever of them is subbed first (as long as it's not injury related) will be the sub,personally I'd go for SoB just cos of his versatility.

Unless it will be Dan Lydiate - the bench players for this game do look like the test bench at the moment.

I guess Gray and SOB/Tips can still make it if they only play the first 40/50 minutes

by asoreleftshoulder Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:43 pm

Can Lydiate play 8?

by wales606 Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:58 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Can Lydiate play 8?

Nope

by asoreleftshoulder Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:06 pm

That's why I'd have SoB somewhere in the 23,I think the backrow is so strong I wouldn't worry too much about whoever is picked but having a player who can cover all 3 positions in the event of an injury is pretty valuable.

by Guest Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:09 pm

I think Lydiate is the bench man unfortunately. He did ok when he came on yesterday and I guess he's a good option to have if we have to shut up shop or if Warburton needs a bit more help in doing the dog work (which he probably will). I would like SOB just for the cover of three positions. I like Dan as a player, but I'd rather he wasn't there as people will want to over analyse his game.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:23 pm

If we're assuming it's Croft,Warburton,Heaslip what happens if either Warburton or Heaslip gets injured and Lydiate is on the bench?I'd much prefer Tipuric on the bench than Lydiate as he can play 7 and Warburton can move to 6 if necessary,at least that gives us some options.

If Lydiate is on the bench then Heaslip and Warburton have to play 80 minutes even if they aren't playing that well.

by maestegmafia Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:14 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:I really think Farrell is getting more stick than he deserves, don't get me wrong if I see Sexton go down I will be thinking oh feck but I think Farrell would be ok when called upon.

Why do you think this?

He has done nothing to prove you right. He had been little more than average at his best. We haven't seen him do anything to justify the opportunities he's been given.

I don't think people are being Harsh mate, Farrell is an incredibly unspectacular player.

He has proven time and again that he hasn't the temperament for crucial games, lets players get to him and when under pressure misses goal kicks that are in all honesty the only skill he has.

by jelly Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:21 am

BBC site saying North is rated at less than 50-50 for Saturday but that Bowe has an outside chance of being ready. No mention of Tuilagi and sounds like they still don't know what is wrong with Roberts.

by maestegmafia Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:25 am

jelly wrote:BBC site saying North is rated at less than 50-50 for Saturday but that Bowe has an outside chance of being ready. No mention of Tuilagi and sounds like they still don't know what is wrong with Roberts.

Hopefully all will be fit. Worrying about North. Not only has he been outstandingly good, he has also been great to watch.

by jelly Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:35 am

I think the Aussies will be massively relieved if he is out.

Wonder if they will be tempted to risk one of him and Bowe with a view to the other one being ready for the following week.

by wales606 Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:06 am

jelly wrote:BBC site saying North is rated at less than 50-50 for Saturday but that Bowe has an outside chance of being ready. No mention of Tuilagi and sounds like they still don't know what is wrong with Roberts.

I guess the good news is that we can assume both will be fit for test 2?

Hoping that one of the two will be fit, who knows about Roberts though.

by wales606 Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:12 am

James Robson has a slightly different view

"George is an exceptional character and has worked really hard," Robson added. "He is back running today. He is doing very well. An accurate assessment of his availability for selection will take place on Wednesday, but at the moment I think he is doing very well."

Jamie is a "grave doubt", Bowe is "unlikely", Tuilagi is fit.

by Goosestepper Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:55 am

Has Croft ever played 2nd row for England or club.... Could he be seen as cover in that position by WG? I do like him but I would prefer to see

6 Tip (on form it should be him at 7 and SoB @ 6)
7 Warbs
8 Heaslip (don't mind if Faletau is started here either)

If that's the starting back three is there room for SoB and Croft on the bench (covering 6,7,8 and possibly 2nd row?)

Also Shane Williams:shock: - all credit to the guy and he'd be mad to turn down the offer but WTF are the coaching team thinking - smacks of jobs for the boy(o)s

by **LondonTiger** Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:19 am

BBC Website say North is less than 50/50, yet BBC radio report that he is doing well. Go figure.

by jelly Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:27 am

Well, I think I'd rather have North fit ahead of Roberts if we can only have one of them; nothing against Roberts I just think we are covered far better at centre than at wing.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:12 am

BOD jokes in his Telegraph column that Andy Farrell still works out in the gym and could probably do a job in the backline.

I do hope North is fit. He's become something of a talisman player on this tour.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:15 am

This morning's Times "understands" that he's out, but should be OK for the 2nd test.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:21 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This morning's Times "understands" that he's out, but should be OK for the 2nd test.

Roberts or North?

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