Wales 28-31 Barbarians

Wales 28-31 Barbarians

Wales (14) 28
Tries: North, Stoddart, Phillips, Brew Cons: S Jones 4

Barbarians (19) 31
Tries: Tekori, Nacewa 2, Parisse, Bastareaud Cons: James 3

Isa Nacewa broke Welsh hearts with a last-minute try to give the Barbarians a memorable win in Cardiff.

The full-back raced clear for his second try, with Iesofa Tekori,Sergio Parisse and Mathieu Bastareaud also crossing for the Baa-Baas.

Gavin Henson, in his first Wales game for two years, gave the pass that let wing George North open the scoring.

Wales coach Warren Gatland will also have been pleased with tries for Morgan Stoddart, Mike Phillips and Aled Brew.

But the highlight would have been the manner in which the Wales forwards took on their more experienced opponents, despite some early wobbles at the set piece.

Wales began with 10 changes from the side that started the 28-9 Six Nations defeat by France, leaving them with only one established combination in half-backs Mike Phillips and Stephen Jones.

Elsewhere, debutants Ryan Bevington - at loosehead prop - and number eight Toby Faletau were up against two of the world's most highly-rated operators in ex-All Black Carl Hayman and Italy captain Sergio Parisse, who also led the Baa-Baas on this tour.

The Barbarians kicked off the match one game further into their team development, having seen off an England XV 38-32 six days earlier at Twickenham.

And while the Baa-Baas could count on a backbone of Test player, they had two uncapped starters in fly-half Brock James and Cardiff Blues lock Paul Tito.

They had two more on the bench in Tito's scrum-half team-mate Lloyd Williams and Willie Mason, an experienced Australian rugby league star who has recently switched to union with Toulon, and who has experienced the 15-a-side code for the first time on this tour.

The Baa-Baas were not only superior up front on paper. They also gave Wales a torrid indication of what was to come with a series of powerful scrums deep in the home 22 in the opening minutes.

Wales were penalised three times in the first four minutes, twice at scrums and once at a defensive ruck.

But their defence held firm and when Fiji's Seru Rabeni held on at a tackle, Wales were able to clear the immediate danger.

With their scrum under stress Wales desperately needed a solid line-out, but that also prove frail at the first time of asking.

Warren Gatland's side needed a boost and after establishing their first attacking platform, with a move that swept right, left and right again, Gavin Henson's miss-pass gave North the chance to go over.

The nagging fear that the tourists' pack could prove too much for Wales returned as their line-out frailty helped create a moment's hesitation, as a set move ended with scrum-half Mike Phillips gifting an intercept pass to James.

Clermont Auvergne's Australian fly-half broke free and after Joe van Niekirk's run, Samoa's Tekori powered over.

James failed to convert, but made amends after Parisse charged from a scrum for scrum-half Sebastien Tillous-Borde to send Leinster and Fiji star Nacewa over.

Having benefitted from an interception, the Baa-Baas conceded one when Stoddart took Tito's pass to race 65 metres down the touchline to score, fly-half Jones converting.

But the Baa-Baas were back in the lead, 19-14, at the break as Parisse made the most of his side's scrum power to go over for James to convert.

Wales were down to 14 men when Brew was sin-binned for a high tackle on Paul Sackey three minutes after the break.

But a minute later the Baa-Baas were a forward short when Tekori was yellow-carded for illegal ruck work.

Sam Warburton set off after intercepting only to give the ball back to the Baa-Baas for James to clear, but back came Wales with Faletau's powerful ball-carrying evident on two charges.

Barbarians flanker Martyn Williams thwarted his countryman on one occasion, the hosts were not to be denied at the umpteenth close-range attempt, Phillips eventually going over to level.

Jones converted and as he did so Williams was replaced by George Smith.

Henson's Wales return ended after 61 minutes, replaced by Scarlets debutant Scott Williams.

At the same time Cardiff Blues prop Scott Andrews made his Test bow, but centre Williams was the instant hit with a telling break with his first touch.

Newport Gwent Dragons hooker Lloyd Burns joined the new caps in the 64th minute, a day after getting married and at the end of a season which he began in the Welsh Premiership at Cross Keys.

Wales' line-up was getting younger by the minute and that youth and enthusiasm paid dividend ahead of Priestland's arrival as Brew smashed his way over from close range.

Rhys Priestland was added to the youthful faces when he took over from Jones, whose final act on his record-equalling 100th appearance for his country was to convert Brew's score.

The visitors also introduced fresh blood, uncapped Blues scrum-half Williams among them.

But the man who made the biggest impact was Willie Mason, taking out three defenders with a back-handed pass to French midfield wrecking ball Mathieu Bastareaud.

That left the Bas-Baas four points down going into the last six minutes and they rose to that challenge, two more excellent off-loads allowing Nacewa to race clear and James converted to seal back-to-back wins over England and Wales.

Wales: Morgan Stoddart (Scarlets); George North (Scarlets), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (Unattached), Aled Brew (Newport Gwent Dragons); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Michael Phillips (Ospreys); Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Newport Gwent Dragons), Danny Lydiate (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Lloyd Burns (Newport Gwent Dragons), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets).

Barbarians: Isa Nacewa (Leinster and Fiji); Paul Sackey (Toulon and England), Seru Rabeni (La Rochelle and Fiji), Mathieu Bastareaud (Stade Francais Paris and France), Doug Howlett (Munster and New Zealand); Brock James (Clermont Auvergne), Sebastien Tillous-Borde (Castres Olympique and France); Iestyn Thomas (Scarlets and Wales), Sebastien Bruno (Toulon and France), Carl Hayman (Toulon and New Zealand), Iosefa Tekori (Castres Olympique and Samoa), Paul Tito (Cardiff Blues), Joe van Niekerk (Toulon and South Africa), Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues and Wales), Sergio Parisse (captain, Stade Francais Paris and Italy).

Replacements: Leonardo Ghiraldini (Benetton Treviso and Italy), Davit Kubriashvili (Toulon and Georgia), Erik Lund (Biarritz Olympique and Norway), George Smith (Toulon and Australia), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Willie Mason (Toulon), Benoit Baby (Clermont Auvergne and France).

Another great day of summer Barbarian rugby, excellent play by both teams on a wonderfully sunny afternoon.

I hope you all enjoyed the game, would enjoy reading your thoughts on the Match, the future and what it may hold.

Wales 28 - 31 Barbarians

Wales
Tries - North, Stoddart, Phillips, Brew
Cons - S Jones

Baabaas
Tries -Tekori, Nacewa 2, Parisse, Basteraud
Cons- James 3

Interesting game, looked like an end of season party game for most of the time, but both teams tried to entertain the crowd.

I though Brew played well apart from the silly high tackle for the yellow card, he maybe tried to hard there.

Warburton and Faletau stood out and tried very hard.

Bevington looked good in the loose but got minced a bit against Carl Hayman, though quite often it looked as though Lydiate wasnt exactly lending any weight to the scrum which didnt help. I noticed the entire Barbarians pack was pushing in the scrums but the Welsh back row had their heads up wondering where the ball was going, 8 against 5 really at the scrums.

I thought Huw Bennett was awful, his lineout throwing put Wales under pressure and he threw a lot of wonky balls which cost us.

Martyn Williams made a nuisance of himself, blocking, stealing, slowing the game down, he looked like he was having the time of his life out there, lol.

Luke Charteris made a big effort today he put his body about a bit and tried hard in defence.

Mike Phillips looked very rusty and threw that silly pass for the interception try, Knoyle looked a lot better when he came on.

Positives:
Warbutron - played like a captain should
Faletau - tried very hard, carried the ball a lot
Bevington - tried hard in the loose, and lacked support in the scrums from back row
Charteris - tackled well, tried hard, carried the ball
Brew - tried very hard, looked for work, rucked well, tackled well

Negatives:
Mike Phillips - rusty, lacks confidence, gave away silly intercept try

Huw Bennett - no idea why hes in the team, cant throw a lineout, tried to cause trouble with the Barbarians lock when he scored and got flipped over and sorted out.

A topsy turvy game for wales, they were lucky to score the first try with Hensons forward pass not spotted. I thought wales lacked uch structure and although they scored a number of tries the majority of these were from mistakes by the baa baa's. I still think Wales are lacking creativity and are going to continue to struggle going forward. The welsh back row was strong and is going to get better with Falatui (sp) having a outstanding debut.
Henson was terrible and didn;t seem to have any idea. His tackling was very poor getting bounced 3 or 4 times, going forward he seemed clueless and resorted to kicking away good ball. Wales need to ditch this experiment as its going to go horribly wrong.

Alyn

Pretty much agree with you there apart from Mike Phillips i thought he had a half decent game and think he is going to be key for the world cup group stage.

Also agree that Bevington looked good and is one for the future but i think that Iestyn Thomas should get a look in, he has the experience and has an awesome engine on him aswell.

Stoddart also played very well IMO and was a little dissapointed in George North he just seemed to look lost a lot of the time.

Alyn;

Thanks for that I am in Greece so did not see the game, disappointing result but not surprising. The game was a no win and should not be a capped game. It shows how bad the Welsh management is, Dai Young and S J winning with cast off players from various Countries including Wales! Is Gatland and his coaches the men for the Job????

Tried to watch the game on myp2p only it kept freezing on me.

How well did Henson play and do you think he made a difference at all.

How was Martyn Williams, do you think he will get a chance to get his 100 cap?

Henson looked rusty and thats expected from a man who has had little game time.
Martyn Williams had a reasonable game but did nothing that would guarantee him another cap.

I dissagee about Brew - He has never really shone in a Welsh jersey and has a habbit of making stupid mistakes - He made a few good tackles (although his positioning was poor) and his counterrucking was good (but he is a WINGER not a backrow forward. However, he made too many errors and I think that stupid yellow card will be the last straw.


I thought Stoddart was excellent - I had worried about his defense at FB, but he has really improved in the last 12 months and personally I would much prefer to see him at 15 for the WC than Byrne.


Henson was very poor and should be embarrased that Scott Williams came on and did more than him within 5 minutes.

Tavis Knoyle looks a lot better, at the moment I wouldnt mind him starting for Wales - anything to keep Phillips out, who despite trying to raise his game, cant untill he learns to pass - Knoyles speed gave Wales the edge when he came on.

Bevington reminds me of a young Gethin Jenkins - Very mobile and his scrummaging isnt that bad and will only improve with age.

Entertaining.

But not encouraging from a Welsh pov.

Good points - the loosies, Knoyle and Brew looked good.
Bad points - Front five were dominated, the lineout shaky, midfield defence leaky.

I thought Stoddard was decent up until the end when Howlett simply handed him off to get the try. Stoddard was shouting at other player to make the tackle when it appears he could of simply hit Howlett hard and knocked him down they probably woulnt of scored and won the game.
It was a very, very poor effort of a tackle.

I thought that many of e non regulars played well, in what was a very stop start game.

WRFC1980.

I think bar Stoddarts interception all the welsh tries were created by pressure and phase play, not by the Barbarians mistakes as you suggested.

Though a few of the Barbarians tries did come from welsh mistakes.

Wales were weak in the line out in the first half and weak in the scrum all game. Carl Hayman was too strong for Paul James.

I thought that Tavis Knoyle had a massive impact compared to Mike Phillips. Much faster service, more decisive and a much better reader of the game. I would like him and Priestland to have more game time this summer, they have been great for the Scarlets and look comfortable for Wales.

Scott Williams and Jon Davies look like a talented midfield.

We missed James hook.

Henson did look rusty, but I think we should still give him game time until the cut has to be made.

Really pleased for Faletau and also Brew who played well other than the card.

Huw Bennett same as ever, Bevington needs to learn to scrummage but showed up well in the loose.

Phillips was hot and cold still taking too long to pass on occassion.

my team for the first England game would be like this

1. Paul James
2. M Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley
5. AWJ
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Richie Rees
10. Hook
11. Shane
12. Henson
13. JD2
14.Halfpenny
15. Stoddart

16. Gethin
17. Hibbard
18. Mitchell
19. Ryan Jones
20. Mike Phillips
21. Stephen Jones
22. Jamie Roberts

Tyco...

Interesting team looking forward, I agree with you sentiments regarding Henson, he showed a few nice touches, didn't spill the ball in a big tackle and put in some deft kicks.

Needs game time.

Regarding your team I would probably play Tavis Knoyle ahead of Richie Rees who personally I do not rate at all. Rees has a quicker service than Phillips but is not talented enough in any other area. Wales need faster service but they also need a scrum half who can read the game, who can combine with a flyhalf, and not just offer him ball.

Charteris had a good game, he made all of his tackles, dogged well on the ground (gave away a pen early by srapping the ball back on the deck infront of the ref). It seemed really odd to me that we didnt use him more in the line out. Huw Bennet is known to be an awful hooker in the line out section of the game. I would have though that having a jumper of Lukes stature would have made an easier day for him.

I agree with you that we need quicker service, dont agree Tavis is the answer and actually think your right about Rees needing to improve other aspects of his game.

What I would like to see is Peel of the 2005 vintage and Phillips of the 2009 vintage vying for the no 9 spot but thats looking a folorn hope.

I was dissapointed with the 'Team' performance, but certain individuals stood out like Faletau, Warburton, Jonathan Davies and Charteris.

In regards Henson, he needed to do more with less experienced players around him. Hope he gets another crack, but I feel it's the end of the road for Gav.

I would definitely start with Knoyle over Phillips and I would not let Brew anywhere near a Welsh Jersey. I'm sorry, I don't rate the guy. Put the ball in his hands and ask him to go forward, fine, but chase back kicks, clean up ball, he's useless.

Hey Coleman,

I agree that Charteris did surprisingly well, more abrasive than I thought he would be, it is a mystery why he is not the preferred target at the line out?

He did work well as a decoy a few times...

Maybe he can't jump? Though has been mo effective for the dragons in the line out.

It could just be the limited training time going into the game and the team showing faith in regular line out men, in that regard I thought Lydiate was very solid, as were Ryan jones and warberton.

Though as you sat bents throwing is so inapt that you could presume he was throwing to charteris and just kept missing...!!!

Welby dont agree about Brew at all. His counter rucking after the tackle won two turnovers in the first half, he cleared well in a tight spot in the second half and showed power to take his try.

He only blotted his copybook with the high tackle in all honesty. However he is behind Shane, Halfpenny, North and Stoddart for a wing spot.

I think that Gatland missed a trick my not starting Lloyd Burns and having maybe Rees, Owens or even Kirby Myhill on the bench as hes been in great form for the U-20's. I'd hope that Charts gets another start in the next few games as he has earnt it. I know that AWJ and Brad are favoured, but i see them as the same type of player and variation could be a very important factor in the WC.

In response to Welby_80. I thought Brew had a good game, he hit more rucks then Toby. His two mistakes were when he went back to clean up a kick slid on it and it went back. But he recoverd, and i see the high tackle as a mistake created by the kick through from Henson. His arm was high, but as we see so often it rode up with momentum in to Sackeys gullet. Would be good for him to play more as i think, as seen with the Dragons, he will find his feet, grow in confidence and score points. As shown with him driving through I.Thomas for his try.

maestegmafia wrote:Hey Coleman,

I agree that Charteris did surprisingly well, more abrasive than I thought he would be, it is a mystery why he is not the preferred target at the line out?

He did work well as a decoy a few times...

Maybe he can't jump? Though has been mo effective for the dragons in the line out.

It could just be the limited training time going into the game and the team showing faith in regular line out men, in that regard I thought Lydiate was very solid, as were Ryan jones and warberton.

Though as you sat bents throwing is so inapt that you could presume he was throwing to charteris and just kept missing...!!!

Having a 6'9" lineout forward is pointless when you have a hooker who cant throw a ball streight, and cant judge when to throw it. Bennett ruined the lineouts today as we knew he would before the game. He's second choice at the Ospreys and shouldnt be anywhere near any Wales team. Granted he looked like he had potential in the 2003 Six Nations and World Cup but its 2011 now, and he hasnt reached anywhere near the level we'd hoped. He should of been written off ages ago but he keeps getting chances he doesnt deserve and he keeps letting Wales down. I really don't think Gatland is prepared to let him go though.

Tycroes and Coleman - Maybe I'm a little harsh on Brew. Yes, he did a lot of good things today, but i'm just not a fan. If you put him up against England, I believe he will come unstuck. I think that there are better players ahead of him (as you said Tycroes), who can also offer a lot more.

I disadree with AlynDavioes comment about Stoddard.

After Warburton missed the tackle, Stoddard was defending a 2 on 1, so he was shouting to get Faletau into position to make the tackle on Nacewa (not Howlett). When Faletau also missed Nacewa, Stoddard then ran him down and made a brave attempt to stop him grounding the ball. Stoddard made other mistakes but can't be blamed for the winning try.

In my opinion Wales problem was not missing a tackle in the last minute it was 80mins of poor scrum and lineout. Why does Gatland pick props who can't scrumage (Bevington and Andrews) and a hooker that can't thow into the lineout?

My positives: Stoddart, Jones, Scott Williams, Knoyle. And up front; Warburton and Faletau.

To be dropped from World Cup squad: Henson, Priestland, Andrews, Bevington (needs to find a club where he is not 3rd choice and start playing regularly), Bennett, Burns (penalty machine), Charteris (surely last chance).

Guys, im merging this with the other article on the match in the international section, just so you know where its gone.

Ok sure, there are players ahead of him. But lets look at it. After today, we've got to look at Stods as a fullback. That leaves Halfpenny, Shane and North. But as we've seen against SA back last year. North is very much being groomed as an outside center at international level. Which is why i think Brew has to be kept in the team. I also think Brew gets confused with his brother a fair bit. As even Benny called him Nathan once in commentary.

Seagultaf wrote:Why does Gatland pick props who can't scrumage (Bevington and Andrews) and a hooker that can't thow into the lineout?

James is a loose head doing his best on the wrong side of the scrum. Bevington, is a young kid up against one of the strongest and most experienced tight heads in the world. Also if you looked at the scrums Lydiate had his head up most of the time not actually supporting Bevington at all with any weight. Lydiate was so concerned about making an impact in the loose he basically threw Bevington to the wolves in the scrums.
Why Gatland picks Bennett is anyones guess, I always want Ospreys boys to do well, but it's a disgrace that he's anywhere near the Welsh team. He's second or third choice at the Ospreys. He cant throw, to save his life, he was under no pressure today from a side thrown together yet he still couldnt throw streight and missed his jumpers numerous times. Very, very poor performance from a very average player.
After the Fiji game in novemeber Gatland went on record and said many players have now had their last chance in a Wales jersey after such a pathetic performance, Bennett was one of the worst on the pitch that day, yet through having done nothing but get splinters on the bench for the Ospreys this season he's considered good enough for Wales?

Wales WC Team

1. Paul James/Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Ryan Jones (AWJ hasnt done much all season)
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Ritchie Rees/Dwayne Peel
10. James Hook
11. Shane Williams
12. Jamie Roberts (better at 12)
13. Jonathon Davies
14. Leigh Halfpenny
15. Morgan Stoddart

16. Paul James/Gethin Jenkins
17. Richard Hibbard
18. Alun Wyn Jones
19. Martyn Williams
20. Ritchie Rees/Dwayne Peel
21. Stephen Jones
22. George North

Reserves

23. Craig Mitchell (will he be fit?)
24. Lloyd Burns/Ken Owens
25. Luke Charteris
26. Jonathon Thomas
27. Tavis Knoyle
28. Rhys Preistland
29. Scott Williams/Andrew Bishop/Gavin?
30. Lee Byrne

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies
12 James Hook
11 Shane Williams
10 Stephen Jones
9 Dwayne Peel
8 Ryan Jones
7 Sam Warburton
6 Toby Faletau
5 Luke Charteris
4 Bradley Davies
3 Adam Jones
2 Matt Rees
1 Gethin Jenkins

23 Duncan Jones
22 Lloyd Burns
21 Craig Mitchell
20 Alun Wyn-Jones
19 Martyn Williams
18 Mike Phillips
17 Jamie Roberts
16 Lee Bryne

I dont think Gatland can take much from this. The Pack were taken to pieces in the set piece and whilst Mike Phillips looked closer to being back to his spikey norm, his service was all wrong. Passing when he should have held or kicked, and kicking or going on his own when he should have passed.

Everyone outside him was living of scraps for most of the time until the substitutions were made and the BaBaas were running out of steam.

We are in trouble at scrum-half - BIG trouble unless Phillips finds form in the next couple of games. It isnt going to matter WHO we play in the girls if they are starved of possession .

Brew showed up well in bursts, as did North and Stoddard, but they didnt look a secure Test standard back three in defense by any stretch of the imagination. The backrow functioned really well for a first time out together and Felatau was the one really bright spot for Gatland.

Henson and JD2 had little opportunity to show anything whilst MP was on the field, and their defensive cohesion WASNT helped by the wingers consistently being out of position.

Front row: Wales need luck for the World Cup - it is looking like the Ospreys trio and Gethin if they are all fit, but I am REALLY worried about the 9 shirt now. Who would have thought 2 years ago we would be struggling to find ONE scrum half for the world cup, let alone 3!

Some very interesting selections developing from today's permutations...!

This Wesh team need to organise and work out their starting combos very soon.

Gatland has felt free to trial and experiment for a while and he has made some positive notes from it I am sure.

I am, like many of you also concerned about the halfbacks and centres.

The front five pick themselves and there is a variety of talent adequate enough in the loose forwards we have selected over the last twelve months. Measurably impressed with Faletaus performance today, he translated his club form very nicely. I hope Gatland allows him to develop there.

With regards to the backs the influx of scarlets that came on when Steven Jones left added far more than anything previous.

Scott Morgan was exciting and brought more from Jon Davies than Henson had. Tavis Knoyle was outstandingly beet at 9 than Phillips, who was not necessarily poor, but wasn't encouraging either.

I would like to have seen mre of Lloyd Williams, and it was a shame that Rhys Webb was injured, unavailable.

James Hooks return, and a first choice front five will make a difference, but the crux of the major issues bases itself around 9 and 10!

we have got to select our first XV - or as close to it as we can get - for the remaining warm-up matches as we are nowhere near having functioning patterns in either attack or defence.

And by "nowhere near" i mean that we will lose to either Samoa or Fiji, if not both, at the moment

I would be tempted to go with a team with more of the youth talent we have, rather then some of the established players.

Scott Williams and Tavis Knoyle certainly deserve another look.

I would be tempted to play without players like Jamie Roberts, Shane Williams, mike Phillips, Steven Jones and Lee Byrne until the second or even final warm up match.

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to go with a team with more of the youth talent we have, rather then some of the established players.

Scott Williams and Tavis Knoyle certainly deserve another look.

I would be tempted to play without players like Jamie Roberts, Shane Williams, mike Phillips, Steven Jones and Lee Byrne until the second or even final warm up match.

I think that would make sense for the backs - given that he can have learned VERY little about the 3/4s from todays outing - but he needs to put up a pack capable of at least coming close to parity in the set pieces so they can have some ball play with.

Looking at the match, Wales put up a great show but I think there were simply more good players on the Barbarians side. The amazing thing, as with the England match, was that the matches were as close as they were.

Against Wales, Heyman dominated Bevington, Iestyn Thomas (old Welsh lad) dominated Paul James, Van Niekerk and Martyn Williams/George Smith were better than Lydiate and Sam Warburton. Sergio Parisse was simply the best player on the pitch (would really like to see him in quality sides more frequently). I must say, though, I really liked Toby Faletau who showed fantastic promise, and had real up at at 'em.

In the backs, Howlett, Bastareaud and Nacewa, were better than Brew, Henson, and Stoddart. Again, I think Brew, Henson and Stoddart were fine, just a bit behind. Phillips is still a mystery. Preistland was interesting since he changed things by adding pace, but not too much else.

Overall great entertainment, but I don't think we learned much we didn't already know.

Three more games to go and from what I saw on some Portugese channel!! Wales are a long way from being the polished article.

England twice and Argentina left and does Gatland still experiment?

Even I am now very scared of how far away we are for being able to challenge anyone so near to the WC.

Living in NZ does not help, nor does the huge amount of money I have spent on tickets etc.

welshjohn369 wrote:Three more games to go and from what I saw on some Portugese channel!! Wales are a long way from being the polished article.

England twice and Argentina left and does Gatland still experiment?

Even I am now very scared of how far away we are for being able to challenge anyone so near to the WC.

Living in NZ does not help, nor does the huge amount of money I have spent on tickets etc.

Yeah we said that in 2003 as well

If we get to the Quarters everyone will be fairly happy I think.

AlynDavies wrote:

welshjohn369 wrote:Three more games to go and from what I saw on some Portugese channel!! Wales are a long way from being the polished article.

England twice and Argentina left and does Gatland still experiment?

Even I am now very scared of how far away we are for being able to challenge anyone so near to the WC.

Living in NZ does not help, nor does the huge amount of money I have spent on tickets etc.

Yeah we said that in 2003 as well

If we get to the Quarters everyone will be fairly happy I think.

.............. and 2007?

welshjohn369 wrote:.............. and 2007?

Every time I watch games against Pacific Islander teams it's always the same story, were a much much better team yet they always get a lucky try or we do something stupid that lets them into the game.

Wales against Fiji 2007 World Cup
http://rugby.opticon.hu/meccsek/070929VB.Wales.Fiji.mp4

Wales vs Samoa 2009
http://rugby.opticon.hu/meccsek/091113Welsz-Szamoa.mp4

In 2007 Fiji were so bad in the tight we should have kicked everything to touch and when in their 22 knock on accidentally on purpose. Yet we got drawn into a game of 7's.

One thing about Gatland's ridiculously over rigid game plan is that the better Welsh players should be able to strangle these games. Phillips better get his kicking boots on.

Yesterday I noticed in the chase that North was waiting for the outside backs to form a line before attacking the catcher off box kicks. Which genius thought of box licks without a proper chase?

Thoughts on yesterday tavis is not even the best scrum half at the scarlets at the moment but is still better than phillips the best welsh scrum half was playing for the barbarians.bennet has had enough chances and needs to be jettisoned. Once the first choice front five return we will be fine in the set piece and the young back row will be even better. Give up on henson and give scott williams a run he will be a star of the future and lastly the august internationals should be used for fine tuning not experimentation. I still think we have some quality players but we don't look like a team.

"the best welsh scrum half was playing for the barbarians"

In a few months you could be proved right :/ - but it will be too late.

However, I think L.Williams could be in the welsh squad next year if he can oust Rees at the Blues.


Come back Dwayne Peel, all is forgiven...

To be fair the replacements for Henson and Phillips looked good because the BaaBaas were clearly tiring by then. Why does Gatland insist on throwing on a load of substitutes , it ruined the cohesion and probably cost us the game. It's happened before when we've needed to close a game out and subsitutes are thrown on too late in the game and we lose our shape. I can't understand the thinking behind it.

15-9 Halfpenny, Stoddart, Davies, Roberts, North, Jones, Peel.
1-8 James, Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Davies, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau
16-22 Mitchell, Rees, Ryan Jones, Turnbull, Knoyle, Hook, Henson.

From the squad as is. I would have Iestyn Thomas in tge squad and on the bench instead of Mitchell.

Went to the match on Sat and left feeling very, very flat.

Stoddart again showed his urine poor defence.

Brew is an absolute liability.

Henson has become infected with the "Gatland Grubber", this has also been know to cause spontaneous vomiting in spectators.

Overall it highlighted two main issues, the appalling lack of footballing intelligence in our backs and a shocking inability for our forwards to tighten up and grind out a win.

Sorry for the negative post but the attendance also made the experience underwhelming.

Loki I agree about the lack of footballing intelligence, Jonathan Davies said a couple of months ago that Wales were playing by numbers and not playing 'heads up' rugby. I think its down to regional coaches, there is so much emphasis on fitness the players spend too much time in the gym and not enough time actually playing rugby, all their natural 'feel' for the game disappearso ut the window.

I also think we lack 'enforcers' on the field, someone like Dalaglio (although I hate the guy,) and Martin Johnson.They had the respect of the other players and wouldn't allow them to drop their heads. We have no hard men like that in the squad I'm afraid and although we call these guys rotten and see them as hate figures, I think every team needs a few of them in the squad. I can't think of anyone in the Welsh squad that fits the bill.
Agree about Stoddart, disagree about Brew, thought he showed promise.

paddy wrote:To be fair the replacements for Henson and Phillips looked good because the BaaBaas were clearly tiring by then. Why does Gatland insist on throwing on a load of substitutes , it ruined the cohesion and probably cost us the game. It's happened before when we've needed to close a game out and subsitutes are thrown on too late in the game and we lose our shape. I can't understand the thinking behind it.

Paddy, the problem is that Gatland doesn't adapt his pre-planned substitution strategy to the game as it unfolds in front of him. The better coaches see when something needs changing and they change it.

You could say the same for tactics, too. Wales under Gatland have no Plan B - they just bash away at Plan A in the hope it'll work eventually. It's a thoroughly dispiriting state of affairs.

Luckless I think this goes back to my point about rugby nous, in times gone by if the game plan wasn't working someone on the field would use a bit of ingenuity and try something different, but this individuality has been coached out of players today and there is no-one who is prepared to try something else - Hook does now and again but I think for the most part they're all scared of losing their place in the team. I know Gatland has said that they should try something if they think it's on, but I get the feeling that there's a bit of that fear factor still within the team. You are right about subs, he panics and wholesale changes are made and hence the team loses its shape.

Agreed. I get the distinct impression that the players are scared of trying things for fear of the rollicking they'll get if it doesn't come off. It's completely the wrong kind of atmosphere you want around any side.

I don't think it's surprising that the 2 players that have actually gone looking to create something (North v France and Williams v BaaBaa's), are both incredibly young and haven't had that much time in the Wales camp, and just go out there to play without fear. It's something that needs to be looked at. We look pedestrian and lacking in any sort of creativity. is it over coaching? is it a fear factor? Whatever it is, something needs to be done to rectify the siatuation.

And I had hoped to see signs of things changing on Saturday, Dreamer. I still hope we'll see a bit of ambition in the remaining warm-up games, but if we don't, the World Cup's not going to be pretty from a Welsh perspective.