Leicester Tigers 2016/17 thread.

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

2016/17:
Director of Rugby: Richard Cockerill
Head Coach: Aaron Mauger
Assistant Backs Coach: Geordan Murphy
Assistant Forward Coach: Richard Blaze
Defence and Scrum Half Coach: Scott Hansen
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glynn
Team manager: Matt Cornwall

2016/17 Senior Squad: (Confirmed So Far) (Blue = EQP)
Hookers: Bateman, McGuigan, Thacker, Youngs
Props: Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara Cilliers, Cole, Genge, Mulipola, Rizzo
Locks: Barrow, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
Back Row: Croft, Fonua, Hamilton McCaffrey, O'Connor, Williams
Scrum Half: Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
Fly Half: Burns, Williams
Centre: Catchpole, Roberts, Smith, Toomua, Tuilagi
Back 3: Betham, Brady, Pieterson, Tait, Thompstone, Veainu
Squad number: 37, EQP: 24, Academy products: 8

Transfers
IN: (7)
McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons), Cilliers (Montpelier), Genge (Bristol), Hamilton (Agen), Toomua (ACT Brumbies). JP Pieterson (Sharks), Brady (Sale)

OUT: (12)
Ghiraldini (Toulouse), Pasquali (Treviso), De Chaves (London Irish), Crane (Bristol), Pearce (Sale), Bell (London Irish), Baikeinuku (retirement), De Villiers (Retirement), Benjamin (retirement), Morris (N/A), Camacho (N/A), Goneva (Newcastle Falcons)

Not Sure: (No official confirmation of leaving or Staying) 3
Aguero, Sio Loamanu,

Rumours:
Harry Wells (Bedford) Lock/6

2016/17 Development Squad: (15)
Bryant, Evans, Hills, Lewis, Mahoney, Maksymiw, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Owen, Simmons, Thacker, Tuilagi, White, Worth, Yawayawa

Transfer
IN: (7)
Lewis, Mahoney, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Simmons, White, Yawayawa

OUT: 11
Odogwu (sale), Beckett (Glous), Povoas (Coventry), Tresidder (Rotherham Titans), Douglas, Farnworth, Galletly, Hogan, Murrin, Nairn, Priestley-Nangle.


Academy
Academy Head Coach/forwards Coach: Brett Deacon
Academy Backs Coach: Anthony Allen

[formerly known as Sam]

Driving maul defence is becoming paramount to any team that want to entertain the chance of silverware. Thacker was pretty good at coming through the middle and disrupting last season but we were very vulnerable to teams rolling round and breaking off.

Sounds like we dominated last night and we should have done given the starting line up.

[LondonTiger]

I think I may have seen Harrison coming on at fly half for a bit - not sure but thought I saw Kitto feeding Sam from a scrum.

[Welly]

I think I may have seen Harrison coming on at fly half for a bit - not sure but thought I saw Kitto feeding Sam from a scrum.

Harrison played the whole second half @ 10 pretty much.


Side note seems we have signed a Ex Leinster winger on trial 25 year old Mick Mcgrath

[formerly known as Sam]

Harrison played age grade rugby at 10 before switching to 9 in the academy. He played 10 vs Nottingham in pre season a few years back and I think he's done it a couple of times for the first team in an emergency. He certainly defended from 10 with Burns sheltering at 9 during last season. From memory he's not bad off the tee.

Any of the young guns catch the eye?

[LondonTiger]

I only saw the second half intermittently, but saw more of the first half.

In the first half we had quick ball and Kitto and Burns ran the show well. Bateman seemed to struggle in the scrums - or at least his side was going backwards and the scrums often rotated. Worth put in one memorable big hit. Betham did not, for me, look as much of a threat on the wing as he has done in the centre - perhaps because he does not have out and out gas?

Manu made some decent kicks!!!

[formerly known as Sam]

Betham probably needs to settle in with Manu inside him. He worked well with Smith last season as Smith ran hard and straight which left Betham room to step and run. He won't get all that space out on the wing. I agree that Betham isn't a flier, he's got good acceleration and a step though so he should cause problems.

Manu is only remembered for his break out season, people forget his grubber kick and chase set up the play for the iconic Geordie drop goal against Sarries. They also forget his great offload to Barritt for the try vs NZ.

[LondonTiger]

Nottingham match cancelled.

Lenny, Cole and JPP all scheduled to feature at some point against Ospreys.

[formerly known as Sam]

Williams and Mulipola not fit. Do we know if Bryant is fit as apparently he picked up an injury at some point in Italy?

Hopefully more game time for Burns and Manu to get them match sharp and ready for Glaws.

[formerly known as Sam]

Harrison at 10 again. Kicking well. Bit of a concern there's no Burns unless we're hiding him away to keep him for for next week.

[nathan]

Apparently, just rested for next week. I laughed when I read JP got sent to the bin 5 minutes into his debut. What was it for?

[LondonTiger]

Apparently, just rested for next week. I laughed when I read JP got sent to the bin 5 minutes into his debut. What was it for?

Wrote a long review of the game which my phone did not sent. Certainly no-one round me had any idea what Jpp did, though he looked rather chubby.

We need Burns back as Harrison (goalkicking aside) looked like a Sh out of position.

[formerly known as Sam]

Apparently, just rested for next week. I laughed when I read JP got sent to the bin 5 minutes into his debut. What was it for?

The radio commentary reckoned it was for killing the ball but were somewhat vexed as the Ospreys had previously given away a couple of cynical penalties and only got warnings.

[LondonTiger]

Pitch looked magnificent. So did scrum and the attack. Defence was at times disorganised, especially after 13 changes had been rung.

I cannot see us making top 2 in the table - but the rugby should be fun to watch.


Now who will help me kidnap Peter Betham and remove that horrid man-bun?

[mikey_dragon]

Good couple of games against the Ospreys then? Sounds like it...

[LondonTiger]

Manu and Freddie ready for Friday according to Cockers, while the Williamses (M & O) and Fitz about a week away from fitness.

[formerly known as Sam]

In that case I'd like to see.

Ayerza, Youngs, Cole
Slater, Kitchener
McCaffery, Hamilton, O'Connor
Youngs, Burns
Manu, Betham
Thompstone, Tait, TV

Bench: Genge, McGuigan, Balmain, Barrow, Evans, Harrison, Smith, JPP.

Close calls on Barrow with him ending the season so strong but I'd take Slater because of his leadership credentials. McGuigan I'd give the nod over Thacker only because we already have a seven on the bench and Glaws can be targeted at the scrum. Smith over Roberts purely because if we're defending a lead or the weather is poor then Smith will smash everything and is always reliable.

[Welly]

I would go with Roberts over Smith IMO basing it on the preseason and the pitch is meant to be good first game on it of the season a little drizzle predicted @ lunch time although i would also be tempted to go
21) Kitto, 22) Harrison, 23) JPP

Would also have Thacker on the bench.

Bench: Thacker, Genge, Bateman/Balmain, Barrow, Evans,

[LondonTiger]

Based purely on pre-season form (not always best indicator admittedly) and the fact that Lenny looked seriously rusty in his 20 minutes at the weekend, I would be tempted to start with Kitto.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd go Thacker if we were playing someone like Quins but Glaws generally like a big pack and have a fairly average scrum. Extra ballast on the bench might work in our favour this week if we want to target their scrum and control the tight exchanges.

Having said that I've not seen pre season so I don't know if McGuigan's darts are still as wayward as last season. Similarly I heard the Roberts/Betham combo was anything but water tight vs the Ospreys.

[LondonTiger]

All throws from us on Saturday found their man, with a wide mix of long and short. Not sure McGuigan had too many of them - but whatever he threw went well. Ospreys were less accurate so not a case of pre-season leniency from ref Pearce.

Midfield defence was at times far too narrow, especially in the first half where Os found spaces wide. In part this was due to Harrison getting too tight to the breakdowns and the centres following him. Once all the changes were mad there was minimal defensive leadership and we had bugger all pattern or organisation.

[formerly known as Sam]

That tends to be the way in pre season games. Hard to keep continuity when there's been 11 replacements.

How did the Roberts/Betham midfield look offensively?

[LondonTiger]

How did the Roberts/Betham midfield look offensively?

I felt they operated individually rather than as a pairing. Kitto and Harrison pretty much ran the ship with lots of quick ball and big runners looping round and coming in on the burst in midfield. Roberts put in a great break and well timed pass for Thompstone's second try, while we saw plenty of Betham's outside arc.

[formerly known as Sam]

Leicester Tigers (v Gloucester Rugby, away, Friday September 2, 7.45pm)
15 Mathew Tait
14 Telusa Veainu
13 Peter Betham
12 Manusamoa Tuilagi
11 JP Pietersen
10 Freddie Burns
9 Sam Harrison
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Greg Bateman
4 Ed Slater
5 Dom Barrow
6 Luke Hamilton
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Lachlan McCaffrey

Replacements
16 George McGuigan
17 Ellis Genge
18 Dan Cole
19 Graham Kitchener
20 Will Evans
21 Ben Youngs
22 Matt Smith
23 Adam Thompstone

Well we were pretty close. Bateman at 3 is a surprise.

[LondonTiger]

Stats from the Weekend


Good:

Goal Kicking - 100%
Most Ties: Harrison 2
Most Assists: JPP 2
Most Metres: TV 70
Most Defenders beaten: TV 5, Tait 3
Most clean Breaks: JPP, BOC, McCaffery, TV 2
Most Tackles: Hamilton 14, OTY 12


Bad:

Missed Tackles: Manu 6
Penalties conceded: Various 1


Ugly:

Backchat to Ref: Cole 1
chargedowns/Intercepts leading to tries conceded: Tait 2

[formerly known as Sam]

Tait had a shocker. He really should be dropped for next week. Thompstone looked ai hungry and committed when he came in he has to come into the starting side.

Similarly Kitchener seemed to have taken offense to being moved to the bench, he came on and really looked to prove a point.

Manu looked miles short of full match fitness, probably only 50% and Betham (who looks to have bulked up over the summer) was little better. Considering the pre season programme it's a slight concern they look so undercooked. Smith on the other hand looked ready to go.

Worth noting TV made all those metres on his only run from deep.

[LondonTiger]

Tait improved hugely in the second half and pulled off a big tackle on Morgan. Interesting that it was TV that was yanked early for Thompstone to come on.

[formerly known as Sam]

Tait blundered less in the second half but considering how bad he was in the first it would have been difficult to maintain that level of slapstick style play. TV was never in the game (one bit of magic aside) and we know Cockers trusts Tait to organise from the back which we needed given Manu and Betham were not at their defensive sharpest. Thompstone brought on the work rate we needed and gave us another physical ball carrier to add to the attack.

I'd like to see Smith and Thompstone start vs Wasps with Tait and one of the centres moving to the bench.

[LondonTiger]

Interesting Injury Update in the Mercury: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/mike-fitzgerald-and-mike-williams-in-line-for-return-to-leicester-tigers-pack/story-29689799-detail/story.html


Mikes Fitzgerald and Williams fit for consideration this weekend.
Owen Williams 50/50
Tom Croft's back improving may feature in A league next week.
Logo and Rizzo also due to appear in A league.
Cilliers still a couple of weeks away from readiness.

[formerly known as Sam]

It'll be interesting to see what selection looks like this weekend. Our bench players were excellent last weekend and our starting pack did pretty well. It wasn't their errors that cost us tries. Add in a powerhouse and probably our most consistent player from last season and it's a luxury of options.

Kitchener should start in my opinion and probably Mike Williams at 6. Keep Evans on the bench though that'd be harsh on Hamilton and Barrow to the bench with no place for Fitzgerald.

[king_carlos]

Wasps looked vulnerable at the break down against Exeter. I'd be tempted to start the three opensides in the back row to really target that. Kitch should start after how well he performed against Gloucs.

One other possibility with Harrison covering 9 and 10 might be a 6-2 forwards-backs split on the bench. With Fitz and Mike Williams returning, Hamilton showing up well on debut and Evans continuing to make a positive impact whenever he comes on it would allow them to get as much of that impact as possible onto the pitch over the course of the game.

[formerly known as Sam]

Which back do you lose though? Thompstone is surely in line to start, Smith deserves to start after smashing everything vs Glaws in his cameo. Manu will be started in the hope he plays his way back to form. Its Tait or TV. I'm not sure they'd be keen to drop either even after Tait's horror show vs Glaws. Betham maybe as he didn't have a good game either.

If we're starting all three opensides then how much variation and impact is having both Hamilton and Williams on the bench. Having Evans and Hamilton on the bench I could see giving us options though.

[LondonTiger]

One of the issues building a squad to try and compete for titles is keeping everyone involved and engaged. At times that will mean leaving guys out who have done well.

The coaches need to balance:

Winning the first home game against nearest neighbours
Re-introducing injured players
Increasing game time for the England players who are not yet fully match fit due to late start to the season
Keeping all players happy.


Much of the decision making around some of the positions will depend just how much work (primarily by defence) has been done this week. I have to say I am not sure who the defensive organiser was last weekend - not fully sure Allen has ever been adequately replaced in that job.

My squad would look slightly different to Cockers I reckon, who could well pick something like:

Ayerza, Youngs, Cole, Slater, Kitchener, Williams, O'Connor, McCaffery as the starting pack with McGuigan, Genge, Bateman, Barrow, Fitzgerald on the bench.

this would be extremely harsh on Hamilton and Evans, but i suspect they may be looking to match Wasps physicality. I as with most would like Evans especially to still be in the squad.


I can see them leaving all 10 backs as they are

[formerly known as Sam]

Given Wasps weakness at the breakdown I would prefer us to target that area than try merely to out muscle them up front. We should be able to take it to their scrum and lineout as is.

Whilst I think Cockers would go with that selection LT I don't think that Mauger will approve. I think either Evans will be wearing 20 or Thacker will be wearing 16 so as to offer us an additional openside option from the bench. Mauger seems big on mobility up front as well so stacking the bench with locks might not appeal, Barrow left the field with concussion vs Glaws and it might be beneficial to stand him down for a game just to be on the safe side.

[Guest]

https://imgur.com/a/IMOno

Results of a survey someone on Reddit conducted. Will be good to see how this changes over the course of the season.

I have to say the average response to Tigers' chance of winning the premiership being 75% is crazy. Saracens have to be favourites, surely, so that would automatically rule out any answers over 50%. Then when you throw in Chiefs, Wasps, Saints, etc...

I thought when I answered with 25% that I was going to be one of the highest responses.

[LondonTiger]

Interviewed on Radio Leicester, Cockers said that they were looking for a number 8, but would not be rushed into a panic purchase:

"We have guys doing a very good job there but they are probably a hybrid of all three [back-row] positions.

"But we are looking for someone to potentially come into that starting slot.

"When we find the right person we will try to make that signing. If we don't find the right fit, then the lads that are there now are doing a great job and will get better the more they play.

"There is no point rushing in and getting the wrong person. The quality of the person and the dynamic of the fit with the profile of the player we want is the key part."

[king_carlos]

Measured words from Cockers, as usual when asked about high profile signings. Our recruitment has been very good for this season so I'm happy with Cockers, Mauger, et al waiting for a player they rate highly enough.

It's good to see the coaches not hesitant to make changes to positions of strength for tomorrow. As LT says above there's no point building a squad with more depth if we don't us it. Also good to see Jack Roberts on the bench in such a strong squad. Giving young players a chance in strong squads is something that hasn't happened enough in recent seasons.

It should be a cracking A-team side for Monday!

Rizzo, H Thacker, Logo, Maksymiw, Wells, Croft, Evans, Tuilagi
Kitto, Bryant, Brady, Roberts, Catchpole, Yawayawa, Worth

Reps: Bateman, Brugnara, Betts, ?, Owen, White/Simmons, C Thacker, Olowofela

With injury returnees we could see something like that I'd presume. Excellent A-side if we do with a good mix of experience and talent.

[formerly known as Sam]

Yawayawa is playing for Notts this weekend so probably won't start in the A league. Would like to see Hardwick given a go from the bench, he looks to have something about him.

I like to see some squad rotation, no point risking anybody this early in the season. Also rotation generates some nice competition within the squad which always helps.

[formerly known as Sam]

So Falcons on the plaggy pitch next week. What are we going to do for that one? We've been poor and next week we'll be without one of our better players over the last two games in Slater (his knees have that aversion to the fake surfaces).

Personally I'd like to see us shake it up a bit and possibly challenge a few players who have been solid but not hitting their straps.

Genge, McGuigan, Cole
Barrow, Kitchener
Williams, McCaffery, BOC
Youngs, Burns
Smith, Manu (if fit)
Thompstone, JPP, TV/Betham

Bench: Thacker, Ayerza, Balmain, Hamilton, Evans, Harrison, Williams, Betham/Tait.

Tait, Tom and Ayerza have been solid but not pushing for inclusion. We need to see more than that so a little reminder that they aren't safe in their shirts might be useful particularly with young physical replacements vs a physical Falcons pack. Both Genge and McGuigan will be smarting over their errors off the bench last weekend and will be keen to atone. If Manu isn't fit I'd move Williams into 12 with Smith at 13 and Roberts onto the bench.

Thacker for when the game breaks up and he gives us a lot more range at the lineout that Youngs and McGuigan who rarely go to the tail. Thacker is more than capable of going beyond the tail and hitting a runner accurately so against a tiring defence he brings nice options. Fitzgerald blew hot and cold vs Wasps so might need a little more time before match fit.

[LondonTiger]

Whoever we select, if there is the same lack of defensive co-ordination we are in trouble.

First issue was protecting our own ball at rucks. Pretty sure first 3 tries came from losing such possession, though of course the 3rd was exacerbated by Betham's refusal to drop to the ground to collect the ball. Then there seemed to be no-one screaming at players to get into position - though I wonder if we were so scared of Wade's pace that we were too wide in defence?

In attack we of course dropped too many balls - again. In large part this was due to the runners being too flat and passes fizzed at them. I also felt we lacked anyone making hard yard in the midfield, and real pace out wide. We used JPP a lot on the inside ball to try and drive through - not sure it worked once. Without TV the wings were lacking in a little pace.

We need to get the basics right.

My team would be: Ayerza (but with a rocket up his arse), OTY, Cole, Barrow, Kitch, Williams, BOC, McCaffery, YBY, Burns, JPP, Smith, Manu, TV, Tait

Bench: Thacker, Genge, Balmain/Mulipola (depends how Logo goes today), Fitz, Evans, Harrison, Williams, Roberts.

[formerly known as Sam]

Certainly agree on the basics. The error count for handling and ruck work is excessive. Most amateur sides would be annoyed by that and at professional level it shouldn't be so frequent.

I'd certainly not drop Thompstone especially if it allows Tait back in. His personal error count was far too high and his lack of pace currently does little for our counter attacking options. If TV is back he goes into 15 for me. Betham could also be an option there.

The defensive structure when set is actually pretty good but you are right as soon as there's a kick, or a turnover it completely goes to pot.

[formerly known as Sam]

Leicester Tigers Development XV (v Wasps, Broadstreet RFC, Monday 7.30pm)
15 George Worth
14 Tom Brady
13 Charlie Thacker
12 Jack Roberts
11 Mick McGrath
10 Oli Bryant
9 Jono Kitto
1 Michele Rizzo
2 Harry Thacker (c)
3 Fraser Balmain
4 Harry Wells
5 Joe Maksymiw
6 Will Owen
7 Will Evans
8 Fred Tuilagi

Replacements
16 Harry Mahoney
17 Logovi'i Mulipola
18 Ben Betts 
19 Sam Lewis
20 Sam Grahamslaw
21 Ben White
22 Tom Hardwick
23 Harry Simmons

Wasps: 15 Owain James, 14 Tom Howe, 13 Nick De Luca, 12 Brendan Macken, 11 Conor Dolan, 10 Connor Eastgate, 9 Will Porter; 1 Tom Bristow, 2 Tom Cruse, 3 Will Stuart, 4 James Cannon, 5 Kearnan Myall, 6 Jack Willis, 7 Alex Rieder, 8 Marcus Garratt
Replacements: 16 George Edgson, 17 Alex Lundberg, 18 Phil Swainston, 19 Ehize Ehizode, 20 Tom Willis, 21 Alex Smit, 22 Jacob Umaga, 23 Sam Harry

Umaga only benching. Bit surprising considering the money he's on to be there.

Mulipola only fit enough for the bench but shouldn't matter as Balmain must be furious at finding himself so far down the pecking order, I hope he's ready to change some perceptions. Nice mix in terms of experience for both teams and should be a good watch for any that are going.

[LondonTiger]

Match sounded interesting - and hey at least we can beat Wasps A

[formerly known as Sam]

Penalty try from scrum at the end to cap it off. I wonder if Thacker was still on at that point.

[Welly]

I'm saying it Cockers needs to get the results or go.

[formerly known as Sam]

eicester Tigers Development XV
15 Harry Simmons
14 Tom Brady
13 Matt Smith
12 Charlie Thacker
11 Adam Thompstone
10 George Worth
9 Jono Kitto
1 Logovi'i Mulipola
2 Greg Bateman
3 Fraser Balmain
4 Harry Wells
5 Sam Lewis
6 Will Owen
7 Harry Thacker (c)
8 Fred Tuilagi

Replacements
16 Harry Mahoney
17 Michele Rizzo
18 Ben Betts
19 Sam Grahamslaw
20 Ben White
21 Sam Yawayawa
22 Jordan Olowofela
23 Andy Brown

Why the blooming hell was Smith not playing yesterday! 4/4 split on the bench looks odd, have we run out of backrow options?

Agree Welly, if Cockers can't get them playing he needs to move upstairs and let someone else come in and try something. Mauger can stay as head coach and then it's time for a horrible forwards coach to come in.

[LondonTiger]

Newcastle Falcons Development:

15 Tom Catterick, 14 Dan Marshall, 13 Ben Stevenson, 12 Fred Burdon, 11 Zach Kibirige, 10 Craig Willis, 9 Sam Egerton; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Kyle Cooper, 3 Andrew Foster, 4 Andrew Davidson, 5 Nick Civetta, 6 David Nelson, 7 Max Davies, 8 Joshua Chisanga
Replacements: 16 Santiago Socino, 17 Piers Goodwill, 18 Joe Sproston, 19 Ed Falkingham, 20 Archie Erskine, 21 Sam Edgerley, 22 Brett Connon, 23 Adam Radwan

[formerly known as Sam]

Given the two teams I'd expect us to win. Though they have the advantage of having a fly half available whilst we have utility man Worth, who is supposedly a good points kicker, trying to control the game. I presume Bryant is injured again but where is Hardwick?

[Geordie]

Im puzzled at our selection.

David Nelson is a hooker...playing at 6?
Max Davies is a lanky second row..playing at 7?

Nice to see Cooper finally getting a run out...and the big man Chisanga. I was stood next to him for a while at the game yesterday and he looks like he's leaned off.

Egerton and Willis both should have been in the 1st squad yesterday.

[formerly known as Sam]

Beast off at number 8 then GF because Fred Jnr is reminiscent of his Uncle Henry. Owen and Thacker are both aggressive at the breakdown but neither is anything close to a wrecking ball, though it normally takes several to bring down Thacker anyway.

We are struggling for forwards with only four on the bench so it could be an interesting second half.

[Welly]

Tigers did very well considering the backline they finished with was
9. White
10. Worth
11. Yawayawa
12. Thacker
13. Olowefela
14. Brown
15. Simmons

average age of 18.

did well to hang on.

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