Wales 45 man training squad

Squad:

Forwards: H Bennett (Ospreys), L Burns (Dragons), R Hibbard (Ospreys), M Rees (Scarlets), S Andrews (Cardiff), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Ospreys), G Jenkins (Cardiff), A Jones (Ospreys), C Mitchell (Exeter), J Yapp (Cardiff), L Charteris (Dragons), B Davies (Blues), AW Jones (Ospreys), L Reed (Scarlets), G Delve (Melbourne Rebels), T Faletau (Dragons), R Jones (Ospreys), D Lydiate (Dragons), R McCusker (Scarlets), A Powell (Sale Sharks), J Thomas (Ospreys), J Tipuric (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Blues), M Williams (Blues).

Backs: T Knoyle (Scarlets), D Peel (Sale), M Phillips (Ospreys), R Rees (Blues), S Jones (Scarlets), R Priestland (Scarlets), J Tovey (Dragons), J Hook (Perpigan), A Bishop (Ospreys), J Davies (Scarlets), G Henson (unattached), J Roberts (Cardiff), G North (Scarlets), A Brew (Dragons), M Stoddart (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Shane Williams (Ospreys), L Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), L Halfpenny (Cardiff).

Guess the big talking point in the forwards is Gareth Delve

TycroesOsprey wrote:Guess the big talking point in the forwards is Gareth Delve

At least he deserves to be there. Bennett doesnt...

agreed alyn.

How on earth is Delve going to attend training sessions? He is on the other side of the world!

On todays performance I would drop: Henson, Priestland, Andrews & Bevington (they can come back when they learn to scrumage), Bennett & Burns (Burns was a penalty machine and Bennett was just Bennett) and Charteris who just does not perform at the highest level.

Duncan Jones, Phill Price and Iestyn Thomas are better loose heads than Bevington, Rhys Thomas is better than Andrews.

The Super 15 season is almost over and the Rebles dont have a chance to take part in the play offs. So i think Delve is a good choice. Shocked Iestyn isnt there. . . Why Bennet :/

Is this the actual squad? - It looks very realistic.

I would be suprised if Tovey is called up at this later stage.

Delve should be called up as we really dont have that much depth in the backrow - Player like McCusker and Turnball havent had enough experience.

Answered my own question

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13655778.stm

It's okay, it's okay, this is only the training squad. No need to panic.

But there is some serious dead wood in that squad and I'm worried that Gatland's going to be taking a lot of it with him to New Zealand.

Wales will get taken to the cleaners.

Seagultaf wrote:On todays performance I would drop: Henson, Priestland, Andrews & Bevington (they can come back when they learn to scrumage), Bennett & Burns (Burns was a penalty machine and Bennett was just Bennett) and Charteris who just does not perform at the highest level.

Duncan Jones, Phill Price and Iestyn Thomas are better loose heads than Bevington, Rhys Thomas is better than Andrews.

Bevington did just fine, watch the game again, every scrum the Barbarians had their entire 8 men pushing, then look at Wales scrum, you will see most of the back row, and Lydiate EVERY time just about binding with his head up ready to run off the scrum to defend a break.
How well do you think a young boy can do against Hayman when his scrum is using 8 men and Wales are only using 5?

It annoys me when props get a bad reputation for scrumaging when it takes 8 men to scrum not just the props. You need 8 men putting effort in, there is no way Lydiate would of got away with that with Gethin and Adam Jones in the team. Lydiate would of been given a rollicking for being so lazy. The problem is Bevington is a new kid and probably didnt feel he had enough status to point out the obvious problem with the scrumaging. Though why Mcbryde didnt sort this out at half time I will never know!

Agreed Alyn, but more to the point, James got mullered at tighthead, same with Andrews when he came on. Bevington actually stood up pretty well to Hayman. When Paul James moved over to the loosehead did no better than Bevington, again because his tighthead was getting smashed.

Also, Bennett is abysmal in the scrum these days - If Hibbard or Rees had been playing then I think we would have been much stronger in the scrum.

Which 15 for the drop from the training squad? H Bennett (Ospreys) S Andrews (Cardiff Blues) J Yapp (Cardiff Blues) L Reed (Scarlets) R McCusker (Scarlets), A Powell (Sale Sharks), J Thomas (Ospreys) M Williams (Cardiff Blues) R Rees (Cardiff Blues) M Phillips (Ospreys) J Tovey (Dragons) A Bishop (Ospreys) A Brew (Dragons) Scott Williams (Scarlets) L Byrne (Clermont Auvergne)

Tovey and Brew will be very unlucky not to go, but after Brew's yellow today and his targeting by the BaBaas tactical kicks I can see him losing out and probably on balance rightly so. I'm not convinced he will take Peel and drop Phillips even after another awful performance by him today. Byrne, Jones, and the two elder Williams' are leading charmed lives. I can see Stoddart edging out Byrne, Jones edging out Tovey, Shane edging out Brew, but I can't see Nugget edging out Turnbull. He may of course take Reed even though Ryan is now mainly a second row and drop Tipuric.

I posted this in the pub as well. Sorry but if you pick your tallest and shortest available second rows together it will fatally unbalance your scrum. Either your props or your number 8 will not be able to scrummage properly. You need both to deal with the BaBaas 8 man shoves.

I think my 30 man squad would be somthing like this

Props

Mitchell, Adam, Gethin, James

Hookers

Rees, Hibbard

2nd Row

AWJ, Bradley, Ryan, Charteris

Back Row

Lydiate, Mcusker Faletau, Delve, Warburton, Nugget

Scrum Half

Phillips, Peel, Rees

OH

Hook, Jones, Priestland

Centres

Roberts, Henson, JD

Back 3

Shane, Halfpenny, Byrne, Stoddart, North

Gats could go for an extra hooker which would mean Nugget or Charteris dropping out. Henson is in if he can prove himself over the next three games if not probably Bishop.

Why did Wales twice not choose a scrum when we were on the barbarians line? Instead choosing to kick for touch when you have stevie wonder Bennett throwing in!
Bennett is shocking but will go to the WC. Ryan jones is just abysmal but seems undroppable.
Dan lydiate lazy? He's a wirkhorse and apparently the strongest player in the welsh squad!
Faletau was good.
Stephen jones did the only thing he is capable of doing. Passing!
Our options at 10 are super ted Stephen jones, hook who doesn't play at 10 for his region and Rhys priestland. Oh dear.
I thought the centres were poor and Henson himself showed he hasn't played much. Poor hands and kicking but will get another chance because he's Gavin Henson.
It just goes to show that mr gatland should pick on form, because the usual suspects were poor and the youngsters showed what we've been missing. The new generation is at last ousting the has beens. Warren just needs to put faith in them. I'd lo e to have seen what Jason Tovey would have done in that game.
Rhys priestland is a poor mans stephen jones and that is poor!

"Ryan jones is just abysmal but seems undroppable."

Seriously? In the Autumn perhaps, but in the 6Ns and with the Ospreys he has been one of the best players.

During one of the 6N games it was close between him and Warburton as to whi our best player was.

Ryan Jones definatly deserves his first WC and I think he will be in the starting lineup, either at Lock, or no8.

Aled Brew is a liability and should not be going to the world cup. I'd prefer to have stoddart on the wing as he seems to be the more reliable than Brew.

watched the match this morning

I am amazed that Iestyn Thomas isnt in that 45 man squad .... he has been very good all season and probably shown the WRU how good he currently is during the Baa Baas match

Yet he still isnt selected for the training squad UNBELIEVABLE

gcBlues - I agree

flyhalffactory wrote:watched the match this morning

I am amazed that Iestyn Thomas isnt in that 45 man squad .... he has been very good all season and probably shown the WRU how good he currently is during the Baa Baas match

Yet he still isnt selected for the training squad UNBELIEVABLE

Abso-flip-lutely.

flyhalffactory wrote:watched the match this morning

I am amazed that Iestyn Thomas isnt in that 45 man squad .... he has been very good all season and probably shown the WRU how good he currently is during the Baa Baas match

Yet he still isnt selected for the training squad UNBELIEVABLE

Completely agree.

After watching yesterdays games and also how England played against the Baa Baa's I am very disapointed.With the team we put out yesterday I honestly thought that we would win and win easily.

The forwards strugled in the set peices and the platform they provided was too slow for the backs to be able to do anyting with. I would like to see GATLAND take the forwards off on their own for a week and then invite a few of the local sides such as Glamorgan Wanders, Cardiff, the Blues and Cardiff Atheletic upto the training camp and have scrum and lineout session and let the local teams really put these proven players under some sort of pressure. Hopefully this will help a lot of them buck up thier ideas.

Mike Phillips is not playing anywere near international standard.

I would take JONES as he can be a calming influnace on the team but would like to see Tovey given a run out.

Henson - Looked out of shape, missed a lot of tackles, needs game time.

JD - Very quite day. I am concerned that the jump to interbational level is too big for him at the moment. Needs a season playing top end european rugby.

Stoddard - Thought he played well, needs to be given more time as full back.

North - Solid player. Need to keep him on the wing and keep playing him to give him as much game time t this level as possible.

Brew - Defends very well, did'nt get a chance to have the ball in hand going forward and I think the Baa Baa's targeted him as a weak link. Would like o see him given another chance.

Ryan Jones - Would like to use him as a sub and bring on with twenty minutes to go to steady the ship. Same with Martyn Williams.

Back Row - Thought played well as a unit and will only get better.

Chateris - Would like to see him and AJ Jones start.

Front row - Good in the loose, but really need to start to scrum better and hit the lineouts.

Good piece on Martyn Williams here :

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12321_6967063,00.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rugbyrightnow%2Fskysports+%28Sky+Sports+|+Rugby+Union+News%29&utm_content=Twitter

Great to see Delev there though logistically could be quite hard. When does Super 15 finish?

Glad Tovey there to though cant see him going to the WC ahead of Priestland.

Beefy wrote:Chateris - Would like to see him and AJ Jones start.

Really ? Do you think he had a good game then Beefy ? If you do then I think you'll be the only one! Luke Charteris was poor yesterday as was Ryan Jones. I like Luke Charteris and he would be in my Magners team anyday of the week, but he's not international standard i'm afraid and has never really put in a fantastic performance in an Welsh jersey IMO

What did Charteris do wrong yesterday? He gave away a stupid penalty. They don't throw him the ball. He carried and tackled well. You can't blame him for the scrums because Ryan Jones is that much shorter than him.

Ok stuck record, I've posted this a few times now.

Charteris was average at best. He missed a few tackles, gave away that "stupid penalty" offers little in the scrums, and for someone who's 6 ft 9 in he has very little influence when playing for Wales. There was little or no understanding with Ryan Jones (who was just as poor). The second row picks itself as far as i'm concered.

4. Bradley Davies
5. Alun Wyn Jones

Charteris has not yet shown he can dislodge either Davies or AWJ for a starting 2nd spot IMO.

Londonwelsh wrote:............. There was little or no understanding with Ryan Jones (who was just as poor)...................

I think Ryan Jones is another player who has been screwed up by the Ospreys coaching team. He has been shunted from 8 to 6 to 5 and back again for two seasons or more now and it is no surprise that his game is starting to suffer.

His ball carrying has dropped off alarmingly - he seems to take contact now and fall to the floor, rather than trying to break the tackle/drive the tackler onto the back foot as he used to. His work rate is still great, Very few in the Welsh pack can match his willingness to tackle and spoil and get around the park, but unless he plays ONE position regularly, then his core skills in ANY position are NOT going to improve and will, over time, begin to erode.

Think of any great player and they are nearly ALL associated with ONE position. Sure, they may have played occasionally elsewhere, or changed position half way through a career, but very few mastered 3 positions at once.

Is he going to be the first big name Welsh International forward to have his career stunted because of the "Versatitlity" tag that he has been lumbered with? We have a history of doing it to players in the 3/4s (Hook, Clement for example), when will Welsh Rugby learn that players improve with consistent selection and coaching?

ML

Francois Steyn, Ruan Pienaar, Daimen Traille, Nathan Hines, James Hook, Jonny Willkinson, Gavin Henson, AACooper, James O'Connor, Matt Giteau, Kurtley Beale, Danie Rossouw, Mils Muliania, Brad Thorn, Imanol Harinordoquy, Dan Carter and no doubt many more have played several positions to a good standard at international level.

I would disagree with EVERY member of that list on the basis that

1) most played other positions occasionally or
2) changed positions on a permanent/semi-permanent basis or
3) Like JW, Henson, Hook, Hines, Traille, Steyn, and Beale, they werent actually very good in positions other than their usual one.

I cant see a starting place for Ryan Jones in this Welsh team now. The back row we have now of Lydiate, Warburton & Faletau is very promising and one for the future. As I said before the 2nd Row should be B. Davies & AWJ. So where do you play him ? Parhaps he can do a job for Wales by coming off the bench with 15/20 mins left maybe ?

When Ryan Jones has played at 4 for the Ospreys he has been very good. He was MOM against London Irish in the Henieken Cup not so long ago so I dont blame the Welsh management team for trying him in that posistion.

ML wrote:I would disagree with EVERY member of that list on the basis that

1) most played other positions occasionally or
2) changed positions on a permanent/semi-permanent basis or
3) Like JW, Henson, Hook, Hines, Traille, Steyn, and Beale, they werent actually very good in positions other than their usual one.

Disagree about Hook there. I know i'm opening a can of worms here but I feel Hook is better for Wales in the centre than at No.10. As the Italy games showed when Hook was back in the centre we more creative and dangerous going forward and that was because when Hook has more of the ball in his hands he can create something out of nothing. But as I said dont want to start the old Hook at centre or fly half debate.....

I would consider Hook's usual position to be 12 too, simply because that is where he has played most Rugby.

I do think however that he has the skills to be an Excellent 10 - but he needs gametime there on a regular basis (part of my original point!).

ML - a very superficial appraisal of Ryan Jones there. An incredibly consistent player and a genuine leader. Usually ends up with the highest tackle count, hits every ruck and excels at the dirty work which goes unnoticed by so many fans.

Fans who, for instance blame the Refion that made him for his drop off in carrying form. Of course it has nothing to do with his appalling injury history?

Loki wrote:ML - a very superficial appraisal of Ryan Jones there. An incredibly consistent player and a genuine leader. Usually ends up with the highest tackle count, hits every ruck and excels at the dirty work which goes unnoticed by so many fans.

Fans who, for instance blame the Refion that made him for his drop off in carrying form. Of course it has nothing to do with his appalling injury history?

I am a big fan Loki, i think he is a very talented player, but there can be absolutely no doubt that his form in the last couple of years has been nowhere close to the heights he reached in 2007/2008 when he was genuinely world class.

Londonwelsh wrote:Charteris was average at best. He missed a few tackles, gave away that "stupid penalty" offers little in the scrums, and for someone who's 6 ft 9 in he has very little influence when playing for Wales. There was little or no understanding with Ryan Jones (who was just as poor). The second row picks itself as far as i'm concered.

4. Bradley Davies
5. Alun Wyn Jones

Charteris has not yet shown he can dislodge either Davies or AWJ for a starting 2nd spot IMO.

Which tackles did he miss? Picking him and Ryan in the same second row is just illiterate.

"Which tackles did he miss? Picking him and Ryan in the same second row is just illiterate."

That word you used. I don't think it means what you think it means...

Last season, Bradley Davies looked a quality player; this season, he's regressed. Yet for most fans, as for the national selectors, current form doesn't seem important.

Luckless agree. Bradley Davies has been poor this season and his handling skills aren't the best. Charteris got through a lot of work, especially in defence.
In the Wales on Sunday he got a5, but in the rugby paper he got a 7.
I haven't changed my mind. Ryan jones is abysmal!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Last season, Bradley Davies looked a quality player; this season, he's regressed. Yet for most fans, as for the national selectors, current form doesn't seem important.

Yet who would you play in front of him? I cant see any locks that are ready to step up to the plate yet. 2nd row has been a perennial problem for Wales for many years and BD and AWJ are the most promising pairing we have had in a VERY long time.

Loki wrote:"Which tackles did he miss? Picking him and Ryan in the same second row is just illiterate."

That word you used. I don't think it means what you think it means...

Sorry Loki, that's exactly what I meant. I could have said:

"Gatland is to team selection what an illiterate person is to reading..."

But I opted for the more succint metaphor. Sorry if I confused you.

ML, I would take Bradley Davies to the World Cup but I'd have Charteris and Alun Wyn Jones as my first-choice second row pairing.

ML - that's not actually a metaphor...

Anyway I was just trying to get a Princess Bride reference in.

I agree that picking two incongruous second rows is poor selection.

Rest assured, only Gatlands selection policies are confusing to me.

Sorry ML that post was for Glas!

"Londonwelsh Today at 6:24 pm
.



Charteris was average at best. He missed a few tackles"

When did Charteris miss one tackle let alone a few? The only player i saw missing tackles out there with alarming regularity was JD2. Also Stoddart missed a couple which was a shame as he had a very good game besides that. It was quite apparent that the Baa Baas could cut through our centres at will. Combine that with their dominant scrum which to be honest we should of expected with the front row we put out its a wonder we actually ran them close. Having said that we should of won it but threw it away again.

Plus points were Toby who looks to the manner born. Although i told everyone who cared to listen he would be a natural international 12 months ago. Also Scott Williams looked very lively when he came on. Perhaps we should try him with Roberts in the summer as our other centre options are laughable at the moment.

Spot on rhino. Spot on!!!!

John Davies, Henson and Bevington were the main culprits I saw for missed tackles. I thought Charteris was solid. Nothing special but did a lot of the hard work and was one of the few forwards there in support when we actually had some go forward.

Loki wrote:ML - that's not actually a metaphor...

Anyway I was just trying to get a Princess Bride reference in.

I agree that picking two incongruous second rows is poor selection.

Rest assured, only Gatlands selection policies are confusing to me.

Oi Loki - Dont start blaming me for other people's illiteracy! I am big enough and ugly enough to dig my own holes!

"Oi Loki - Dont start blaming me for other people's illiteracy! I am big enough and ugly enough to dig my own holes!"

Sorry ML!