The Middlesbrough 2016/17 "Nope - we are doomed after all" Thread

[dyrewolfe]

Okay, its still a while to the start of the new season, but I thought I'd put this up here while I remember.

Boro's first spell in the top flight for 7 years and of course, the big (£170million) question is, can we secure 40 points - or at least avoid going straight back down?

Outgoing Players:
Jonathan Woodgate
Damia Abella
Rhys Williams
Tomas Kalas
Gaston Ramirez
Ritchie de Laet
Kike Sola
Michael Agazzi

Most of these aren't big losses, but Kalas and especially Ramirez played big parts in our promotion push and I feel their defensive and attacking qualities respectively, will be missed, unless we can get similar (or better) replacements.

Incoming Players:
Viktor Fischer (winger) Ajax - £3.8m.
21 year old Denmark international.

Bernardo Espinosa (defender) Sporting Gijon - Free Transfer.
26 year old Colombian has also played for Seville and Racing Santander.

Marten de Roon (midfielder) - Atalanta - £12m (reported).
25 year old Dutch player made 36 Serie A appearances, scoring once.

Victor Valdes (keeper) - Man Utd - Free Transfer.
34 year old Spaniard was released by United. Has also played for Barcelona.

Antonio Barragan (defender) - Valencia - Undisclosed.
29 year old made over 100 appearances. Also played for Deportivo and Valladolid and spent time at Liverpool as a youth player.

Alvaro Negredo (striker) - Valencia - Season Loan.
30 year old was part of the title-winning Man City squad in 2013-14, scoring 23 goals in 48 appearances. Has spent last 2 seasons at Valencia, scoring 18 goals in 76 appearances. Has 21 caps for Spain and was part of their Euro 2012 winning team.

Brad Guzan (keeper) - Aston Villa - Free Transfer
31 year old made 108 appearances for Villa, after signing from Chivas USA in 2008.


So far our first 11 could look something like this:


--------------Guzan / Valdes-----------

Espinosa----Barragan----Ayala----Friend

---------de Roon-----Clayton---------

----Fischer------Forshaw------Adomah

--------------Negredo------------


Subs: Mejias (GK) Damia, Husband, Baptiste, De Pena, Gibson, Nsue, Leadbitter, Stuani, Nugent, Rhodes


So, far it looks like Karanka has managed to put the spine of a better-quality team in place, from back to front. Not entirely sure about Valdes, but he's a recognised name who has played for some big clubs. Our defence is looking stronger, we appear to have more creativity and pace in midfield, plus a proven striker.

Lets just hope they don't suffer the usual jinx of suddenly becoming useless the moment they pull a Boro jersey on!

[Crimey]

Surely Middlesbrough will sign Ramirez on a free now?

[dyrewolfe]

It would be great if we could, but I guess a lot will depend on whether any other clubs come in for him. If he does well in the Copa America with Uruguay he could attract a fair bit of interest.

[Nico the gman]

Okay, its still a while to the start of the new season, but I thought I'd put this up here while I remember.

Boro's first spell in the top flight for 7 years and of course, the big (£170million) question is, can we secure 40 points - or at least avoid going straight back down?

Outgoing Players:
Jonathan Woodgate
Damia Abella
Rhys Williams
Tomas Kalas
Gaston Ramirez
Ritchie de Laet
Kike Sola
Michael Agazzi

Most of these aren't big losses, but Kalas and especially Ramirez played big parts in our promotion push and I feel their defensive and attacking qualities respectively, will be missed, unless we can get similar (or better) replacements.

Incoming Players:
Viktor Fischer (winger) Ajax - £3.8m. 21 year old Denmark international.
Bernardo Espinosa (defender) Sporting Gijon - Free transfer. 26 year old Colombian has also played for Seville and Racing Santander.


So far our first 11 could look something like this:


--------------Konstantopoulos-----------

Espinosa----Gibson----Ayala----Friend

---------Leadbitter-----Clayton---------

----Fischer------Forshaw------Adomah

------------Nugent / Rhodes----------


Subs: Mejias (GK) Damia, Husband, Baptiste, De Pena, Nsue, Stuani


While I'm fairly comfortable with our defence, I think our midfield needs more quality and it wouldn't hurt to try and sign a better striker than we already have...someone with a bit more pace and guile who can trouble Premier League defences. Not saying our current ones can't, but we should be looking to get more strength in depth anyway, so it couldn't hurt.

If that was our 1st 11, our Premier League status would be sorted by about the end of January, it would be championship here we come, we need at least another 4 quality player's just to compete.

[dyrewolfe]

Thats my gut feeling too.

Hoping we have a few more transfers to announce before the start of the season.

If we can get Ramirez back that would be a major boost.

[dyrewolfe]

Added Dutch defensive midfielder Marten de Roon from Atalanta, reported to have cost £12m but officially undisclosed and bagged keeper Victor Valdes, who was released by Man Utd.

Still nothing to get hugely excited about so far. Wasn't expecting any megabucks, big-name signings, but was hoping we'd land a few players with track records to inspire a bit of enthusiasm / excitement.

Although we have done that before with strikers...only to be massively let down.

Looks like we'll be letting either Dimi or Mejias go...can't imagine either one would want to stay on as 3rd choice keeper. Just wondering if Valdes will really be better than those guys.

[dyrewolfe]

Confirmed the signing of Valencia defender Antonio Barragan for an undisclosed fee, on a 3-year deal.

Wonder if the experienced 29-year-old will be preferred to Gibson? You have to think he would work better with Espinosa and Ayala (fewer communication problems).

[dyrewolfe]

Confirmed signing of Valencia striker Alvaro Negredo on a season loan deal. The 30-year-old was part of Man City's title-winning team in 2013-14 and Spain's Euro 2012 winning squad.

[westisbest]

Guzan signs for Boro.

Will he number 1.

You have Valdes and yer man from last season.

Guzan 31 still got few years left.

Tough fight for him to cali. a regular starting spot.

[dyrewolfe]

Guzan signs for Boro.

Will he number 1.

You have Valdes and yer man from last season.

Guzan 31 still got few years left.

Tough fight for him to cali. a regular starting spot.

Yeah - strange signing I thought, given we already got Valdes. I'm wondering if that means we're letting both Dimi and Mejias go?

Guzan's the same age as Konstantopoulos, (I think), so no worries on that score. Haven't seen him play though, so no idea what he's like. Presumably either Karanka or our scouts liked what they saw.

[westisbest]

cHe was good a couple of seasons ago.

Sadly like the whole villa team, he has gone downhill.

Loss of confidence i guess.

Has had a poor defence in front of him which doesnt make it easy.

Played well recently for the US i read.

[dyrewolfe]

Well, our defence ought to be pretty sound...but he might need to learn some Spanish.

[westisbest]

Good win for boro at VP today.

[dyrewolfe]

Indeed - good to see the new guys among the goals. Although to be honest I'm more interested to see how we fare against Udinese and Real Sociedad...think they might provide a sterner test (better idea of what we can expect in the PL).

In transfer-related news it looks like we are close to re-signing Gaston Ramirez.  

[westisbest]

Is Jordan Rhodes in Karanka's plans?

Read that we are second favourites to sign him(behind Wolves).

Would be a great signing if true, although I thought I saw Karanka say he was going to stay and fight for his place, so shouldn't read to much into in perhaps.

[dyrewolfe]

Not seen anything definite on the Oneboro forum or Evening Gazette.

Getting some mixed messages though. An EG article back in June has the club saying Rhodes is definitely NOT for sale, but a more recent one from this month has club legend Bernie Slaven saying he doesn't think Rhodes fits Karanka's style of play.

Then an article on Wednesday's League Cup defeat at Fulham has Karanka saying he wanted to use Rhodes as a sub, but injuries to Fabio and Friend meant he was forced to bring other players on.

My gut feeling is that Rhodes is perhaps our one striker who hasn't lived up to his reputation and given that he's behind Negredo, Stuani and Nugent in the pecking order, it might be best for him if he leaves.

In fairness he's never been given a good run in the side to prove himself, which is probably what he needs...together with a strike partner (maybe someone in the mould of Nugent). Given the way we play though, thats never going to happen.

[Nico the gman]

Is Jordan Rhodes in Karanka's plans?

Read that we are second favourites to sign him(behind Wolves).

Would be a great signing if true, although I thought I saw Karanka say he was going to stay and fight for his place, so shouldn't read to much into in perhaps.

Nope 4 played and not had a kick so most think he'll be on his way, excellent signing for someone, if you get him I hope he hits the goals that take you up.

[westisbest]

What's Adomah like guys?
Be a good championship signing?

Also good luck with Traore. Looked like he had potential the few times he played, injured a fair bit.
Would have liked to have seen him more at Villa.

Will be keeping an eye out to see how he does.

[Nico the gman]

What's Adomah like guys?
Be a good championship signing?

Also good luck with Traore. Looked like he had potential the few times he played, injured a fair bit.
Would have liked to have seen him more at Villa.

Will be keeping an eye out to see how he does.

Honestly, Adomah can take teams apart, skilful can go past defenders create chances and will hit a few goals, be surprised if he isn't a hit for you, good signing. He couldn't get on with Karanka fell out big time last year.

[dyrewolfe]

Just seen we've got Calum Chambers from Arsenal on a season-long loan. Could be a good move, considering we're usually lacking cover in defence. Can play as a centre-back or right-back.

Agree with Nico about Adomah. He was consistently one of our best players in the Championship. Has the pace and skill to get past opponents and strength to hold the ball up. Usually chipped in with a decent haul of goals too. Should do well for you. As Nico said, he had a big bust-up with Karanka last season, so I'm not surprised he took the opportunity to leave, even if it meant going down a division.

A bit surprised we signed Traore...partly because he only signed for Villa a year ago. But then he is a winger...which we desperately need and Spanish too. Fee is undisclosed but given Villa paid £7m I would imagine we paid a bit more...unless Adomah was used as a makeweight. Lets hope he doesn't have the same injury problems that plagued him previously.

[westisbest]

Adomah sounds promising.
Cheers. Look forward to seeing him play.

Think Traore wanted to leave as wasn't getting game time when he was fit.

Think he only played a few minutes this season.

Away to Sunderland last season he showed glimpses of what he can do.
Good bit of play to set up Gil's goal.
Did hear that he had a bit of an attitude.

Anyway hope he does well for Boro.

[Fernando]

Just seen we've got Calum Chambers from Arsenal on a season-long loan. Could be a good move, considering we're usually lacking cover in defence. Can play as a centre-back or right-back.

.

That will change after the weekend's football

[dyrewolfe]

Well, its official. In case anyone was in any doubt about this season, its going to be a relegation battle, along with Stoke, Sunderland and whoever else fancies flirting with the drop.

Started the season with a rather lacklustre 1-1 draw at home against Mark Hughes' strugglers, who just this week were thrashed by Crystal Palace.

A not entirely convincing away win at a weakened and struggling Sunderland.
Dumped out of the League Cup in the 2nd round by Fulham.
A bore draw snooze-fest at West Brom.
A 2-1 home defeat by Palace.
An emphatic 3-1 loss at Everton.

1 win in 6 games is not exactly cause for optimism. We managed to beat arguably the worst side in the division, but it was a close game.

We couldn't even beat Stoke at home. We struggle against mid table teams like West Brom and Palace (failed to score in one match and couldn't defend in the other) and got comprehensively beaten by one of the better teams. Even the goal we did score against Everton came because Negredo headed the keeper's arm, causing him to drop it into his own net.

Despite all the new signings, we're still playing more or less the same way we finished last season. Playing possession football and doing sod-all with it, except going side to side, or back to the defence / keeper.

We're still usually toothless in attack. Our lone striker frequently isolated and receiving little / no service. Our supposed wide players trying to play through a congested midfield. Our holding midfielders not winning the ball back or breaking up attacks effectively.

The times we do threaten are far too few and far between and most of those are easily snuffed out, or we fluff the final ball.

All this puts even more pressure on a defence that could usually cope in the Championship, but is ruthlessly exposed by even average quality PL teams.

I hope to hell Karanka and his staff have some new ideas and implement them PDQ, because if we carry on as we are, this is going to be one depressing season.

[Nico the gman]

Well, its official. In case anyone was in any doubt about this season, its going to be a relegation battle, along with Stoke, Sunderland and whoever else fancies flirting with the drop.

Started the season with a rather lacklustre 1-1 draw at home against Mark Hughes' strugglers, who just this week were thrashed by Crystal Palace.

A not entirely convincing away win at a weakened and struggling Sunderland.
Dumped out of the League Cup in the 2nd round by Fulham.
A bore draw snooze-fest at West Brom.
A 2-1 home defeat by Palace.
An emphatic 3-1 loss at Everton.

1 win in 6 games is not exactly cause for optimism. We managed to beat arguably the worst side in the division, but it was a close game.

We couldn't even beat Stoke at home. We struggle against mid table teams like West Brom and Palace (failed to score in one match and couldn't defend in the other) and got comprehensively beaten by one of the better teams. Even the goal we did score against Everton came because Negredo headed the keeper's arm, causing him to drop it into his own net.

Despite all the new signings, we're still playing more or less the same way we finished last season. Playing possession football and doing sod-all with it, except going side to side, or back to the defence / keeper.

We're still usually toothless in attack. Our lone striker frequently isolated and receiving little / no service. Our supposed wide players trying to play through a congested midfield. Our holding midfielders not winning the ball back or breaking up attacks effectively.

The times we do threaten are far too few and far between and most of those are easily snuffed out, or we fluff the final ball.

All this puts even more pressure on a defence that could usually cope in the Championship, but is ruthlessly exposed by even average quality PL teams.

I hope to hell Karanka and his staff have some new ideas and implement them PDQ, because if we carry on as we are, this is going to be one depressing season.

I think you've pretty much summed it up,11 shots in 5 games, 3-1 down and Karanka puts Clayton on a defensive midfielder, but his pleased with the way the players performed, despite not having a shot on target in 90 minutes.

[dyrewolfe]

It now seems we can look forward to Championship football next season.

Okay, so winning (or even drawing) against the likes of Everton and Spurs is perhaps unrealistic, but struggling to draw at West Ham and limping to defeat at home to Watford (only managing 3 shots on target all game) seems to me a pretty sure sign we will be occupying one of the bottom 3 places come the end of the season.

I might not be so pessimistic had Aitor "The Ostrich" Karanka stated that he is not about to change the way we play.

Fine AK - bury your head in the sand, ignore the problems that are blindingly obvious to everyone else and keep telling everyone that it will come good sooner or later. Maybe if you repeat it enough, you might actually believe it.

[Nico the gman]

It now seems we can look forward to Championship football next season.

Okay, so winning (or even drawing) against the likes of Everton and Spurs is perhaps unrealistic, but struggling to draw at West Ham and limping to defeat at home to Watford (only managing 3 shots on target all game) seems to me a pretty sure sign we will be occupying one of the bottom 3 places come the end of the season.

I might not be so pessimistic had Aitor "The Ostrich" Karanka stated that he is not about to change the way we play.

Fine AK - bury your head in the sand, ignore the problems that are blindingly obvious to everyone else and keep telling everyone that it will come good sooner or later. Maybe if you repeat it enough, you might actually believe it.

Yep stubborn stubborn man who can't see the wood for the trees, our chairman may have a big decision to make sooner rather than later.

[dyrewolfe]

It wouldn't be so bad if we were actually performing well and could say we were unlucky...but we just never look like causing other teams problems.

We might produce 2 or 3 good moves and moments that get you on the edge of your seat...and thats it. Simply not good enough over 90 minutes.

Makes it even more galling when Watford scored with 1 of only 2 shots on target. We had over 60% possession and mustered just 3...an absolute joke.

[dyrewolfe]

Okay, whisper it, but we just might survive this season after all.

Since the limp and frankly pitiful home defeat by Watford, we have been to the Emirates and actually managed to outplay Arsenal on their own turf, for periods of the game. Certainly created the better goalscoring chances...but sadly couldn't put any away. Still, got a valuable point in a fixture where we might reasonably have expected to be hammered.

This was followed by a strange home win against Bournemouth, where the visitors actually were the better team. Needed a brilliant solo effort by Ramirez, against the run of play, to open the scoring. This was followed with a genuinely good bit of team play involving the tireless and tricky Traore, who found Negredo, who selflessly nodded down to Downing for an easy tap in.

Annoyingly we still spent the final 15 minutes camped on our own 18-yard line, even though the visitors had a player sent off and were down to 10 men. Exasperating!

Then, miracle of miracles, we went to Man City and grabbed another point on the road. Had to endure a horrible first half that was all City. Needed some heroic defending and goalkeeping to restrict the hosts to a single goal. Boro decided to try and play a bit second half and the game was suddenly a lot less one-sided. The game ebbed and flowed, to'ed and fro'ed, but a very late Boro attack gave the visitors a deserved equaliser, just minutes after Aguero should have wrapped it up for City, missing a chance he would score 9 times out of 10.

Karanka got his tactics spot on and the players executed them about as well as could be expected.

We now have a bit of breathing space between ourselves and the bottom three. More tough games to come, but we have played and held our own against two title contenders now and really shouldn't fear anyone now.

[westisbest]

Gestede been strongly linked with Boro in Jan.

Don't know how you fans feel about that.
If he was playing for a better team than Villa last season he may well have done better.

Anyway, hearing it could be a swap deal with Rhodes, who I would like.
He could be a big player with Kodjia & Auew at the ACON.

[racingnut]

As a realist and not some "see it through rose coloured glasses fantasist" ,I would have taken our current position if youd offered me it before the seasons opener against Stoke. That said,I do think theres been times when we coud have gambled more,been more adventurous.Karanka has a total fixation with giving nothing away at the back,thats fine as long as you pose some sort of threat at the other end when given the chance, unfortunately those occasions have been scant in the extreme and some of the turgid, dour stuff served up can hardly be described as entertainment. I know survival was the target and if this style saves us then its job done. Watermark performances like Watford at home and Soton away had to be seen and endured to be believed, it was DESPERATE, even wins against Hull and Swansea, comfortable as they seemed didn't tell the story. We are ponderous and slow in movement of man and ball, our default pass is either square or backover, we defend too deep, period, we don't press/squeeze opposition high up the pitch,we don't support the lone front man, Negredo, (love him or loathe him, he still needs support) and as a consequence we don't score or even look like scoring enough goals. Stats are there to be sneered at but 52 shots on target in the season so far tells the story,the lowest in the Division and by some margin.Ive been going since 1973,ive seen the good the bad and the downright ugly and I have to say hand on heart that the current set up is the most defensive minded to be in place.Im not asking Karanka to be gung ho,that would be suicide,I just think that at certain times against certain opposition we could and should have been more attack minded.
As for the personnel,we all have our own ideas as to what constitutes a footballer.I have no issues with the majority of the lads at the Riverside,they are all fabulously well drilled and carry out their on field duties to the managers instructions.Of the current crop I only find fault with Downing and Negredo.The former has been a square peg in a round hole since he re-signed,if running across the pitch, twenty yards in front of the opposition back four then invariably playing a square pass constitutes being a Premiership footballer then ive been in the wrong line of employment for 35 years,he is useless,he has NOTHING to offer in any way,shape or form.get rid.The signing of Negredo was greeted as almost the second coming by many,i watched him in the season warm up against Sociedad and declared way back then to anyone who would listen that he wasn't the answer .His work rate is non exsistent,he stands with hands on hips in the middle of the pitch berating all and sundry,he doesn't run the channels often enough, he doesn't spin in behind often enough, his default is to come short and look for a flick on , that isn't our style , we need the ball held up so the midfield lads can try and link in.In his defence,he has a times been extremely isolated and fed on scraps but if the chances aren't there and your not scoring you have to be a team player,Negredo hasn't looked one of those at numerous times this season.He would be a £10 million flop if we bought him.The much maligned Jordan Rhodes plays the lone striker role much better but his face doesn't fit,he isn't Spanish,enough said.He is the most harshly treated top flight player this club has ever had.
Enough of the negatives,what about the positives.
We are solid at the back,Gibson has turned into a majestic centre half,Chambers has grown into his role and Espinosa gets better with every game.The lads in the middle cant be faulted,they have a job to do and they do it to the letter,if Forshaw played for a more fashionable club then he would be on the verge of the England squad.The attacking intent is there but rarely seen,it all goes through Ramirez,he is quality,he has it all,craft,composure,skill and unfortunately the latin temper to boot.With him we have a threat without him we have little.
Im not going to get involved in transfer talk,its all speculation.Bamford would be a good signing,no doubt as would Bojan but what happens,happens.The squad is what it is.
Halfway school report C-  Can do better. UTB!

[westisbest]

Shame Rhodes doesn't get a look in.
Was good in your promotion.

Would like to see Villa take him.
McCormack doesn't seem up to it.

[racingnut]

A prodigal son returns, the present day prodigal son wants away, we play our best tempo,neatest passing game at home all season and get beat 3-1 then the manager blames the crowd, the stewards, the programme sellers, the ballboys and everyone else within hailing distance of the Riverside for the defeat, its a funny old game! It was a false result, for long periods we were the better team but as is our want this season we don't turn that into goals. The 3-5-2 we started with made us look as potent going forward as we have in a long while, Traore will put the skids under ANY defender and if one of the front boys had gambled a couple of times and attacked the six yard box instead of hanging on the penalty spot we could have been out of sight by halftime. Cest la vie. Two scruffy goals to concede,you cant leave the Geordie donkey to run at you from a dead ball and the second, well was it offside? From where I was sat it certainly looked it.Our reply was as good a footballing goal as you will see and even at 2-1 down I still thought we'd get something but as is his want Karanka went back to the tried and tested 4-2-3-1 and we didn't pose a fraction of the threat after the break.He threw a few late subs on in desperation but we didn't really open them up and we get caught on the break by a fluke deflection right at the death.
Yet again we offer promise but no end product,we missed Ramirez like you wouldn't believe,if he goes and we don't replace with a like for like player then we are in massive trouble.I take defeat as graciously as victory buy Karankas post match comments have me seething,I and I'm not the only one,think that hes looking for an out,if he is then cut him loose,hes taken us as far as his own capabilities allow,hes reached his Zenith.The crowd are the one set that you don't alienate,when you do then its all over red rover.Get rid now or he will watch and do nothing as we sink toward a proper relegation battle,he has a lurid fixation with goal difference and being tight and solid,that is all fine and dandy as long as you pose a threat at the other end,we don't.Its a Godsend that the bottom four are as bad as they are or we would be right in the mire.Massive questions still to answer.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Thought there was a huge lack of quality outside of Negredo. Traore was scaring our defence but then Karanka made the most baffling call you'll see all season and move him to the left wing, where his lack of finesse and left foot was really exposed.

Scoring the first goal was huge for us and there were so many cracks once you chased. Downing must have really gone off the boil if he isn't worthy of having an impact

[racingnut]

Our inability to score has finally caught up with us and we are well and truly in a relegation battle of attrition.An awful draw midweek against a typical Pulis styled WBA didn't auqur well for a visit to White Hart Lane and in true Boro fashion we found of way of conceding after frustrating them for an hour.Even at one down I thought we would get at least one clear chance,unfortunately when it came it fell to De Roon and the less said about it the better.Something is going to have to change,Karankas system WILL not keep us up,he has to be more adventurous particularly against those teams that are around us.The games against Swansea,Hull,Palace and Sunderland are not just season defining they are possibly history defining,to drop out after one season back in the Prem would be a disaster both on and off the pitch,how long the club can go on relying on Steve Gibsons millions is open to question,especially with the recent interest from overseas.The next fourteen games are fourteen Cup Finals.

[owen10ozzy]

Laughed at when I suggested we'd be better off without Karanka at the helm for our campaign...Id have been happy to see him go when he threw his toys out of the pram last season..his football is not made for premier league survival...you can argue that we are tough to break down etc till your blue in the face...but when a team is hammering at the door and being allowed to do so for 75 mins of a game, 9 times out of 10 they will score.

You state it's an inability to score...I wouldn't be surprised to see our actual conversion rate in among the better of the bottom half teams..it's our complete lack of creation that is killing us; I'm not sure we have the players to create many issues but until we are actually set up to be more adventurous we won't know whether we do.

If we are relegated we become a less desirable proposition for investors than we already are and as you said Gibsons loyalty and millions will eventually run out..he wasn't far off having to pull the plus 3 years ago when he had to offset the club debts through the haulage firm and golf/hotel complex..something he has already said he won't be able to do again or indeed be willing to do!

[dyrewolfe]

I'm just desperately hoping both Karanka and the players will have got some sort of lift from the Cup game against Oxford.

That was the most attacking display I can remember for some time - albeit against lower league opposition (and even then we almost found a way to lose).

The positive attacking approach was a joy to behold - even more so as we actually scored a few goals. Only spoiled by the fact our defence decided to go AWOL.


But yes, Karanka has got to start being a lot braver with his team selections and setup, if we are to stay up.

I think at least 10-12 points from the Palace, Sunderland, Swansea and Hull games are a must if we are to have a chance.

[owen10ozzy]

That's sealed it today...we are going down and I lay the blame firmly at Karankas door...today he was moaning we don't have the money other teams do so we have to stick together..this coming from the man who has turned on both the players, the fans and the club when things have gone pear shaped! I'm shocked Gibson hasn't pulled the plug on him to be honest.

6 pointer today and we were beyond awful for all of a ten minute spell after the break. I hope some stone wall plans are already in place for our relegation back into the Championship otherwise as a club we are in real trouble..

By the way...I heard Negredo is on £100,000 a week!! If that's true then Gibson has truly lost the plot allowing that kind of transfer. I know we have to pay over the odds as not as desirable as other clubs but that's just plain stupid!

[racingnut]

Desperate beyond belief is an understatement.3-5-2 was a joke of a starting formation,we left huge gaps in the middle and exposed the back three at every turn.That almost permanent feeling of inevitability reared its head the moment Palace edged in front and for all the huff and puff in the second period we didn't really look like getting anything,Stuani's chance aside.

Karanka wont change because he cant change,he is a one trick pony,he has a Plan A and nothing else.Truth be told we've been in a relegation battle since Christmas but now it gets dirty and I do wonder whether the club as a whole has the stomach for it,where the next win comes from I have no idea and whilst I think survival will be secured with a record low points tally I cant see that saving us.

Negredo doesn't get £100k a week, he gets £105k! I work at the training complex,I know all the secrets.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Giving aging stars one last payday, not really the way to build a successful team to stay in the PL (see QPR, Fulham)

[racingnut]

Einstein's definition of insanity-Someone who does the same thing repeatedly yet expects differing results. That sums up Karanka in one sentence. If his half assed tactics don't work after 3 or 4 games how can they possibly work after 27? He has obviously lost the dressing room, a divided team is a relegated team. Why he didn't do the honourable thing on Saturday evening is beyond me. The Club should have got Brendan Rodgers when Karanka walked last season but they let him slip through their fingers and allowed the Spanish Mafia back in. Sleepwalking back to the Championship without lifting a hand in anger. The Club will implode, Mr Gibson cant possibly afford to bankroll another period away from the top flight, outside investment will surely have to be found.
If Karanka does go before seasons end it still leaves some poor sod a massive task to keep what is easily the most unadventurous Boro team ive seen in 44 seasons, up. As a fan I just want to see us at least give it a go, not just roll over and let everyone tickle our belly, it really is soul destroying to watch such uninspiring stuff.
As for the players, okay we might lack a little bit of quality but having seen what other teams around us have to offer, I do think we stack up in most areas, it just seems that confidence is at an almighty low and there is an obvious lack of self belief. The only one I will single out as a total non trier is Ramirez, I am his biggest fan but since the so called injury around New Year(there was nothing wrong with him ,I used to see him everyday at work) he hasn't wanted to know and Saturdays abject display should be the last time he pulls on a Boro shirt.He is a petulant young man with a highly inflated opinion of his own ability, I pity the club who sign him.
I will sum up by quoting Cromwell-" You have sat too long for any good you are doing lately, depart I say ,in the name of God go".

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Why should Karanka resign? He's just doing his job. Any manager would be mad to resign, its the same with Neil at our place - why resign and lose out on a paypacket to secure your family's future...no normal man at work would do it

[dyrewolfe]

Sad to say I'm in full agreement with racingnut...at least as far as our impending relegation is concerned.

I would actually say the entire season has been a relegation battle. We have never looked remotely convincing. In fact we have pretty much always looked out of our depth in the PL. We simply were not prepared for this season.

We signed a couple of genuine PL quality players in Negredo and Valdes, but neglected to strengthen the defence or midfield with players of similar calibre (with the exception of Ramirez). 3 out of 11...not good enough. Coupled with Karanka's overly defensive, even negative, tactics and we were doomed from the start.

Its all very well being difficult to beat, but when you can't score goals, that in itself is not enough to keep you up...and now we don't even have a reliable defence.

Which brings me to Boro's other major problem...the elephant in the room, if you will.

Its been pretty evident to me for the last couple of months, at least, that the players have lost faith in the manager...or simply don't want to play for him any more. Our performances since Christmas (maybe even earlier) have shown a complete lack of will to win.

- We are slow and predictable when trying to go forward. Moves are easily countered (or just break down through poor play / lack of communication).

- We lose possession / give it away far too easily and don't try hard enough to win it back.

- Consequently our strikers are starved of service and have to drop deep to try and get the ball.

- We sit back and invite pressure onto our defence...which inevitably crumbles sooner or later.

- We spend FAR TOO MUCH time passing backwards and side-to-side under the misguided notion that possession allows us to dominate games.

To be honest I can completely sympathise with Ramirez, or any other player wanting to leave. Its all very well wanting to impose your authority as a manager, but when your training, tactics, team selections etc. are blatantly not working, then you should at least think about changing things and/or getting feedback from your senior squad members about how to improve things.

The training ground bust-up between Karanka and Adomah last season clearly wasn't a one-off. It looks to me like at least half the players are no longer trying.

On the one hand I'm disappointed, because as professional footballers (earning large sums of money) they should at least still be playing for their personal reputations and the fans, even if they dislike the manager.

On the other, I can understand that, if they are being asked to do things they're not really capable of, they are going to struggle and under-perform. Especially if they have tried to speak to the manager and get him to change things.

I'm still somewhat grateful to Aitor for getting us promoted (even though he nearly messed it up in the last month) but my goodwill towards him is running lower with every game. He needs to go...

Ideally I like to have seen him leave after the Palace game, while we still had a chance of staying up (assuming we could get a decent replacement).

However I'm thinking Steve Gibson has already made plans for us to be in the Championship next season. Hopefully he will use the parachute payments to clear some of the club's debts and strengthen the squad (given the number that are likely to leave).

Maybe its better to take the summer to find another Karanka (as in, young, upcoming and relatively unknown) to take the reins. I doubt any of the managers I'd like to see, would consider Boro and wouldn't want many of the usual suspects who inhabit the revolving door of Premier League managers.

Roll on next season...I'm done with this one!

[dyrewolfe]

Well the inevitable has finally happened.

After 10 games without a win and 4 games without a goal, Aitor Karanka has finally left the club. Assistant Steve Agnew will stand in as caretaker until a permanent appointment is made.

The timing of Karanka's departure suggests Steve Gibson has a replacement already lined up. Whether its just a short-term fix to try and preserve the club's PL status, or a more long-term one, possibly planning for life in the Championship, is still open for debate.

Whoever it is, they face a baptism of fire, given Boro's remaining fixture list. second-bottom and 3 points adrift of safety, they will have just 11 games to secure Boro's future in the top flight...or else prepare for another season in the 2nd tier.


Middlesbrough v Manchester United Sun 19 Mar

Swansea City v Middlesbrough Sun 2 Apr
Hull City v Middlesbrough Wed 5 Apr
Middlesbrough v Burnley Sat 8 Apr
Middlesbrough v Arsenal Mon 17 Apr
Bournemouth v Middlesbrough Sat 22 Apr
Middlesbrough v Manchester City Sat 29 Apr

Chelsea v Middlesbrough Sat 6 May
Middlesbrough v Southampton Sat 13 May
Liverpool v Middlesbrough Sun 21 May

I think there's also the home fixture against Sunderland to be re-arranged after it was postponed due to our FA Cup tie with Man City.

Realistically, I can see us winning that one, along with the Swansea and Hull games. Beyond that I really can't see where any other points will come from, barring a Leicester-like resurrection.

[racingnut]

The right decision but at the wrong time.He should have gone 6 or 8 games ago.Whilst I will always be grateful to him for steering us into the Premiership,the brutal truth is that world class coach he may be but top flight manager he is not.The dressing room is so obviously divided and players are pulling in different directions,no team in our predicament can afford that.Unity is a vital weapon in any relegation dogfight. It seems that another bust up with the Prodigal Son that is Downing was the straw that finally broke the camels back,in this respect I will stand Karankas corner,Downing has been a square peg in a round hole since he re signed.He ISNT Premiership quality and has no role even in a team as bereft as ours.Can I see a way out? Not really,the personnel haven't changed,we still have little quality in areas that matter,to win games we need goals and where they come from I have no idea.I reckon we need 5 wins,cant see us scoring 5 goals to be honest.Championship looms.

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