International Windows

Here are some PrO'12 stats to have a think about.

NGD:
In International Window: P10 Pts 13
Outside Window: P12 Pts 13

Ospreys:
In International Window: P9 Pts 16
Outside Window: P13 Pts 39

Turks:
In International Window: P9 Pts 29
Outside Window: P13 Pts 34

Cardiff:
In International Window: P10 Pts 23
Outside Window: P12 Pts 33

To me that shows Ospreys were effected most with international call-ups. For my liking, NO rugby should be played on an international weekend.

Everyone can have a think about the so-called "facts" above - and a few seconds later realise nothing can be inferred from them.

For example what was the quality of the opposition and was it harder for some teams compared to others?

One key player missing with no depth may be far more important than two or three missing from a team used to them being away and having adequate ccover.

What about injuries? Were some teams missing Test players through injury as well as International duty? Were cover players also injured?

Were the profiles different for the 6N, AIs and the RWC?

Do the last five years have the same profiles?

Thanks for the thread though it was worth three seconds thought.  

Without knowing who the opposition was - e.g. did any of the Italian sides feature in these games, were they home or away, how weakened the opposition were by call ups of their own, and other factors such as players missing through injury/suspension it doesn't really prove much.
That said there should be a suspension of games during the international break or only things like B&I/LV cup games on.

So 'nothing can be inferred' from the bare facts presented without knowing the strength of the opposition during those games.

Isn't it pretty obvious to most that many of those games inside the window will have been played against teams whose national teams are also involved because its, erm, the international window?

The derbies were also played outside of the windows, so the games inside are cross border games.

Therefore, the obvious inference is as Lord Andy Dowellais noted.

The Kennedy Assassination
Roswell New Mexico
Pro12 Welsh Fixtures
Moon Landing

- which of these is the odd one out?

Lack of pirates cause global warming too.

If anything it shows how overrated Scarlets were last season.

The Scarlets did really well during the international window, with 7 players in the Wales squad (just one less than the Ospreys) getting 29 points against the Ospreys 13.

Of course they struggled against the strongest sides when they had all of their stars available, as did all the Welsh Regions. Not suprising as they were operating on significantly lower playing budget than other countries Pro 12 sides.

The Pro 12 plan to get rid of league matches during test windows from he 2018 season onwards, so that problem will be solved for the Welsh regions.

There'll be less league matches too, so league games will have more test players in the match day squads.

And there'll be a development style comp run during test windows that will likely do away with the B&I Cup, and replace the AW Cup with a British & Irish comp.

Pot Hale wrote:

And there'll be a development style comp run during test windows that will likely do away with the B&I Cup, and replace the AW Cup with a British & Irish comp.

Link? Cheers.

PhilBB wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

And there'll be a development style comp run during test windows that will likely do away with the B&I Cup, and replace the AW Cup with a British & Irish comp.

Link? Cheers.

Re: The Pro12, how do we move forward ?
Post by Pot Hale on Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:53 am


Martin Anayi has continued the rounds of media interviews he's been giving.

In another recent one in irish newspaper, he's quoted as referring to the conference/pool system being very suited to a cross-border competition. He's also quoted as saying he's in favour of introducing a top 6 style play-off to league. And that his proposal to club CEOs is that matches should continue during international windows but maybe as part of a cup involving Irish and British teams from both leagues so a development pathway continues for lower profile players. However, PRO12 matches would be more often filled with test players and he'd like to introduce an extra derby round of matches once they move to the conference/pool model. Change unlikely to happen before 2017-18 season.

The poor reffing image and empty stadia are also referred to and that whilst Sky are content with the viewing figures for a weekend of matches, empty seats and poor reffing displays are not helping.

All interesting food for thought and seems to indicate that they're determined to change things up.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/connacht-rugby/lights-camera-action-34654329.html

Right, so guesswork from Fanning.

PhilBB wrote:Right, so guesswork from Fanning.

Well, I think you'll find that similar articles were written by a number of other journalists on the topic, including one that followed up the feedback that Anayi received from the club CEO's on his various proposals, and what they were looking for on development games and the test windows.

Pot Hale wrote:The Pro 12 plan to get rid of league matches during test windows from he 2018 season onwards, so that problem will be solved for the Welsh regions.

There'll be less league matches too, so league games will have more test players in the match day squads.

And there'll be a development style comp run during test windows that will likely do away with the B&I Cup, and replace the AW Cup with a British & Irish comp.

Less domestic league games? Anglo Welsh being replaced?

Not massively sure the Welsh pro teams will be rushing to sign up for this.

Dai Llewod wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:The Pro 12 plan to get rid of league matches during test windows from he 2018 season onwards, so that problem will be solved for the Welsh regions.

There'll be less league matches too, so league games will have more test players in the match day squads.

And there'll be a development style comp run during test windows that will likely do away with the B&I Cup, and replace the AW Cup with a British & Irish comp.

Less domestic league games? Anglo Welsh being replaced?

Not massively sure the Welsh pro teams will be rushing to sign up for this.

Well if they've been part of proposing it or agreeing to it in the round of Anayi meetings, perhaps they might. Ospreys managing director Andrew Millward, last May commenting on TV deals:

"We have all heard the figures coming out of France in the past week," he said. "They are eye-opening but I think the way to respond is by being smarter in the way we organise ourselves. "It's a fact of life that none of the Celtic countries has the population size of England or France. We don't have the chimney pots. But what we can do is make our league the go-to competition for entertainment. That means we have to be innovative in what we do and we have to see if we can give broadcasters what they want.

"A reorganisation has been suggested and I think that is something we should be prepared to explore fully because we need to maximise our appeal not just to sponsors and broadcasters, vitally important though both are, but to supporters as well. Standing still isn't an option."


Less league games in a possible 19 game conference format, with more Event weekends (they've proposed cross-border event weekends) to boost numbers a la the current Welsh Big Day Out, would compensate for losing 3 low attendance games.

An expanded British & Irish development comp could be better than the current Anglo-Welsh comp.

PhilBB wrote:Right, so guesswork from Fanning.

Because of course, you would never operate on guesswork. 

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Because of course, you would never operate on guesswork. 

Yeah, I would. But I label it as such.

I'm sure that you can now see the difference.

Further interesting stats from the Pro 12 to think about regarding performances of some teams within and without test windows regarding match points gained - not including scoring/losing bonuses:

Dragons:
In : P10 Pts 13 - 1.3 pts per game
Out: P12 Pts 13 - 1.08 per game
Ospreys:
In: P9 Pts 16 - 1.78 per game
Out: P13 Pts 39 - 3 per game
Scarlets:
In : P9 Pts 29 - 3.22 per game
Out: P13 Pts 34 - 2.6 per game
Cardiff:
In: P10 Pts 23 - 2.3 per game
Out: P12 Pts 33 - 2.75 per game
Connacht
In: P10 Pts 36 - 3.6 per game
Out: P12 Pts 24 - 2 per game
Leinster
In: P11 Pts 24 - 2.18 per game
Out: P11 Pts 40 - 3.64 per game
Glasgow
In: P11 Pts 30 - 2.73 per game
Out P11 Pts 28 - 2.55 per game