Canelo/Oscar's cunning plan...

First topic message reminder :

So now Canelo has won the WBO junior middleweight champion, according to the WBO rules, Canelo can get an immediate title shot at WBO middleweight titleholder Billy Joe Saunders - provided Canelo openly declares he is moving up to 160.

Everyone knows Gennady Golovkin is desperate to clean up the alphabet titles and is very eager to face Saunders next.

So could Golden Boy scupper GGG's plans again?

TopHat24/7 wrote:Canelo gets circa 600k PPV buys versus Khan (well known in the States) and, apparently, under 100k buys versus unheard of Smith.  Both fights primetime boxing slots.

GGG gets close to the upper end of that range versus not particularly well known or liked Brook in a non-prime time slot.

But yes, Canelo is a MASSIVE draw and GGG is a deadbeat.....because 50k Mexicans turned up to a stadium.

Bit like saying Froch is a bigger drawer than Mayweather because Mayweather only fought in front of 25k max whereas Froch did 80k at Wembley (in case you hadn't heard). Moronic analysis.

You've also taught me something new today as I never, ever, ever heard that Froch fought infront of 80,000 people...

milkyboy wrote:entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

This sums it up....Pretty well

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

This sums it up....Pretty well

x2

Rational fair post.

Adam: Mayweather grew through the weights (after turning pro at 19) but spent the bulk of his career as a welterweight (after moving up at the age of 26). He was a welterweight.

Milky: agreed. You can't claim to want to fight anyone from 154 to 168 and criticise someone for fighting welterweights if you then fight a welterweight and stipulate a catchweight. Saying that, that doesn't mean Golovkin isn't the most avoided fighter in our lifetimes - he is.

Truss: you can keep citing these imaginary contradictions all you like - I don't contradict myself. Quite what Hagler has to do with this thread (he was over the hill when he fought Leonard - as was Leonard) and Mayweather vs Maidana (a fight that made a laughing stock of Floyd's claims he was the best fighter ever) is anyone's guess.

I still think Floyd is a 140 fighter. He could make the weight easy.

Floyd was as much over the hill as Hagler was. Floyd might not be the best ever, but he's better than any fighter now by a country mile, including Gonzalez and Ward.

The irony of Truss lecturing about somebody else contradicting themselves...

Not imaginary pal....As you know..

I thought Mayweather was wrong to not fight Manny and he was a cherrypicker..

He also had a great cv..

Floyd grew through the weights...More crap and double standards

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not imaginary pal....As you know..

I thought Mayweather was wrong to not fight Manny and he was a cherrypicker..

He also had a great cv..

Floyd grew through the weights...More crap and double standards

He did grow through the weights. GGG couldn't step up and beat Ward.

I bet Floyd would have the talent to beat Ward, if he was similar sized.

If Floyd or Manny were 160lb fighters, they would box GGG's ears off.

He bulked up....Big difference....24 years old at 130..

Brook bulked up...

Mayweather is only a natural 147 pounder...so we can't give him credit for beating bigger guys..

Shame Hagler didn't grow isn't it...Then again Haz likes him..

AdamT wrote:I still think Floyd is a 140 fighter. He could make the weight easy.

Floyd was as much over the hill as Hagler was. Floyd might not be the best ever, but he's better than any fighter now by a country mile, including Gonzalez and Ward.

I still think I could play centre forward for Newcastle United but sadly, that doesn't correlate with reality.

He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

They've had a few silent beatings...

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

That was due to illegal supplements. Probably the same crap GGG and other elite fighters use. Though he probably doesn't get tested in his part of the world.

As baffling as GGG fanboys stating they wanted Brook to win on here before the fight !!

He's a welterweight for the purposes of trashing his victories..

Like you trashed Oscar in that silly thread..

Lucked out when he got all close decisions....Schooled when he lost them..

That kind of juvenile crap..

He ended up a welterweight. He never started at 147.

Floyd drags Marquez up two weights, beats him like a novice. People sh1t over it. He could of stopped him if he really wanted to, but just completely outboxes him.

GGG drags Brook up two weights, gets caught loads and it's his greatest win??

Oh I forgot, GGG doesn't duck when he knows you can't hurt him.

Aged 17 Floyd & Manny were the same weight. Floyd then benefitted from a cushy US amateur development programme and turned pro as a more mature 130 lb adult whereas Manny was busy fighting to live.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:As baffling as GGG fanboys stating they wanted Brook to win on here before the fight !!

He's a welterweight for the purposes of trashing his victories..

Like you trashed Oscar in that silly thread..

Lucked out when he got all close decisions....Schooled when he lost them..

That kind of juvenile crap..

I have stuck up for GGG many a time. Even when you claim he never fought anyone. Truth be told, you are basically right.

At 35 years old, who has this guy really fought? The mw's he faced are just as bad as Wlad's opponents.

You got a guy who is trying to break a title record, who has basically fought nobody.

GGG is a level above the MW fighters. He has proved that, so maybe it's time he steps up a division like other greats.

It's a pity he lacks the ambition to do that.

I really believe he wouldn't be near as effective if he couldn't bully opponents. He is a monster at 160, but I don't think he would be as devastating at 168.

Anyway no point discussing this anymore. His fights are becoming boring and predictable.

There is only so much you can watch the school bully beat scared overmatched kids. It gets boring after a while.

Anyway let's agree that GGG is an excellent fighter and lets hope he gets tested and moves up to 168 sooner rather than later..

Everyone accepts he's a great middle...

AdamT wrote:He ended up a welterweight. He never started at 147.

Floyd drags Marquez up two weights, beats him like a novice. People sh1t over it. He could of stopped him if he really wanted to, but just completely outboxes him.

GGG drags Brook up two weights, gets caught loads and it's his greatest win??

Oh I forgot, GGG doesn't duck when he knows you can't hurt him.

He grew into a welterweight and spent the bulk of his career there. That's all I'm saying - there's no reason to freak out.

And unless I've missed something, I don't recall anyone claiming Brook was a great win. It was a nothing win - a physical mismatch - like Floyd's over JMM.

You seem to be having an imaginary argument with yourselves?

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

That was due to illegal supplements. Probably the same crap GGG and other elite fighters use. Though he probably doesn't get tested in his part of the world.

Ha, ha!

1. Floyd was cheating.
2. Golovkin probably is and so it's Ok.
3. At least Floyd gets tested - not like Golovkin who fights over in Kazakhstan.

This is cracking stuff!

Floyd did cheat.

So you think GGG is natural??

Lets put this argument to bed.

Tell me one! Just one great fighter that GGG has on his resume. Suppose that is why he was desperate to fight Floyd, because the one great fighter near his weight would absolutely school him.

Ward beats GGG easy and I hope we get to see it.

AdamT wrote:Lets put this argument to bed.

Tell me one! Just one great fighter that GGG has on his resume. Suppose that is why he was desperate to fight Floyd, because the one great fighter near his weight would absolutely school him.

Ward beats GGG easy and I hope we get to see it.

Put what argument to bed? We were talking about Canelo vs Golovkin and suddenly it's switched to a Floyd thread.

We all hope Golovkin fights someone that can challenge him soon. That's what we all want to see. We don't want to see the Canelo fight go the same way as Pac vs May (lucrative beyond comprehension but largely pointless in a sporting sense).

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Lets put this argument to bed.

Tell me one! Just one great fighter that GGG has on his resume. Suppose that is why he was desperate to fight Floyd, because the one great fighter near his weight would absolutely school him.

Ward beats GGG easy and I hope we get to see it.

Put what argument to bed? We were talking about Canelo vs Golovkin and suddenly it's switched to a Floyd thread.

We all hope Golovkin fights someone that can challenge him soon. That's what we all want to see. We don't want to see the Canelo fight go the same way as Pac vs May (lucrative beyond comprehension but largely pointless in a sporting sense).

Because someone mentioned Floyd.

[quote="hazharrison"]

AdamT wrote: We were talking about Canelo vs Golovkin and suddenly it's switched to a Floyd thread.

New users are allowed to be shocked when this happens, you have no such excuse haz.

Who can challenge him at 160, bar Canelo??

If Canelo doesn't have the stones, move up to fight whoever at 168. He probably would beat them all anyway. Just not as easily as the guys at MW.

I don't like bashing GGG and do have a little sympathy for him. The problem I have is when people blast other great fighters, then put the guy on a pedestal.

He could be as good as Manny etc, who knows? However we won't know how good he really is by fighting Eubank and co.

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

I'm a Mayweather fan but some people on here make it embarrassing to be so.

I cannot understand why people are so adverse at admitting that someone they don't like is being avoided. Sometime it's not even that they dislike the fighter, it's that they dislike the poster on the forum who likes the fighter.

It's as plain as day that Canelo and his team are doing all they can to avoid a fight with GGG. Whether it be a weight stipulation, possible contractual arrangement post fight or an unfair purse. Yes there's an economic argument to be made that Canelo is a bigger draw than GGG but that doesn't mean that GGG isn't a draw, I don't think anybody has suggested otherwise, so the $10m flat offer is a joke and everyone knows it. It's that simple. Most people, reasonable people, know that Canelo should and will get a higher fee due to the crowd he'll bring. A 60/40 or 65/35 weighting Canelo would be fair in my eyes.

Has GGG turned down fights with other fighters in higher weight classes, probably. Has Canelo had things weighted in his favour through his career, probably. Fighters have been, are and always will be contradicting themselves. So to single out any fighter for saying one thing and doing another in a particular situation to suit your narrative is embarrassing.

Pedro147 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

I'm a Mayweather fan but some people on here make it embarrassing to be so.

I cannot understand why people are so adverse at admitting that someone they don't like is being avoided. Sometime it's not even that they dislike the fighter, it's that they dislike the poster on the forum who likes the fighter.

Objective criticism from a guy that wrote a thread entitled...

"Ban Trussy Now"...

Good thread that Pedro...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

I'm a Mayweather fan but some people on here make it embarrassing to be so.

I cannot understand why people are so adverse at admitting that someone they don't like is being avoided. Sometime it's not even that they dislike the fighter, it's that they dislike the poster on the forum who likes the fighter.

Objective criticism from a guy that wrote a thread entitled...

"Ban Trussy Now"...

ok

Because you've ruined threads (and the forum as a whole) on many occasions that has resulted in the number of posters on here dropping. I tried to get a few friends to start posting on here and two of them said they wouldn't bother because of "some American fella".

However the above posted wasn't aimed at you unless you think you're one of those stupid, idiotic people mentioned in it.

Pedro147 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

I'm a Mayweather fan but some people on here make it embarrassing to be so.

I cannot understand why people are so adverse at admitting that someone they don't like is being avoided. Sometime it's not even that they dislike the fighter, it's that they dislike the poster on the forum who likes the fighter.

Objective criticism from a guy that wrote a thread entitled...

"Ban Trussy Now"...

ok

Because you've ruined threads (and the forum as a whole) on many occasions that has resulted in the number of posters on here dropping. I tried to get a few friends to start posting on here and two of them said they wouldn't bother because of "some American fella".

However the above posted wasn't aimed at you unless you think you're one of those stupid, idiotic people mentioned in it.

Take your case to Adam D.....Get your mate and some of the guys above to do the same and if they kick me off.........Fairplay.

I've always said I've been living on borrowed time....

I argue my point but I don't hold grudges and I certainly don't dislike anybody.............I don't foe anybody and I take crap back.....

Go message Adam D....Simple..

I have had words with Truss more than most, but I would reckon the place gets a lot more quiet without him.

He has probably contributed with more good articles than most.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

I'm a Mayweather fan but some people on here make it embarrassing to be so.

I cannot understand why people are so adverse at admitting that someone they don't like is being avoided. Sometime it's not even that they dislike the fighter, it's that they dislike the poster on the forum who likes the fighter.

Objective criticism from a guy that wrote a thread entitled...

"Ban Trussy Now"...

ok

Because you've ruined threads (and the forum as a whole) on many occasions that has resulted in the number of posters on here dropping. I tried to get a few friends to start posting on here and two of them said they wouldn't bother because of "some American fella".

However the above posted wasn't aimed at you unless you think you're one of those stupid, idiotic people mentioned in it.

Take your case to Adam D.....Get your mate and some of the guys above to do the same and if they kick me off.........Fairplay.

I've always said I've been living on borrowed time....

I argue my point but I don't hold grudges and I certainly don't dislike anybody.............I don't foe anybody and I take crap back.....

Go message Adam D....Simple..

The irony is amazing. The thread was nearly 3 years ago and was taken down after five minutes yet you "don't hold any grudges". I think we've now reached Peak Truss. Anyway, as I've said you weren't mentioned in my post and I don't interact with you on this as it's not worth listing to your drivel. So just debate the thread and not the poster.

I don't get irony...

Only brought it up to point out you weren't the most objective poster...

What you do in a debate.....Is find weakness in an argument..

Don't be so sensitive......Take everything I write with a pinch of salt..

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

That was due to illegal supplements. Probably the same crap GGG and other elite fighters use. Though he probably doesn't get tested in his part of the world.

Does VADA not test in Santa Monica and Big Bear, California?

[quote="Rowley"]

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote: We were talking about Canelo vs Golovkin and suddenly it's switched to a Floyd thread.

New users are allowed to be shocked when this happens, you have no such excuse haz.

Ha! I can usually see it coming!

kingraf wrote:

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:He walks around at 150-152. No reason why he couldn't.

Difference being he fought at 140, you most likely never played for Newcastle United (though you are probably good enough, wouldn't be hard).

Apart from that drip he got caught with hanging out of his arm...because he was so drained from making 147...ahem!

Why are Floyd fans so averse to admitting he was a welterweight?! I'm baffled!

That was due to illegal supplements. Probably the same crap GGG and other elite fighters use. Though he probably doesn't get tested in his part of the world.

Does VADA not test in Santa Monica and Big Bear, California?

Not sure, don't live there.

AdamT wrote:Who can challenge him at 160, bar Canelo??

If Canelo doesn't have the stones, move up to fight whoever at 168. He probably would beat them all anyway. Just not as easily as the guys at MW.

I don't like bashing GGG and do have a little sympathy for him. The problem I have is when people blast other great fighters, then put the guy on a pedestal.

He could be as good as Manny etc, who knows? However we won't know how good he really is by fighting Eubank and co.

Golovkin will probably fight Danny Jacobs next in December - decent enough fighter. Ranked numbers one and two at the weight (depending what you do with Alvarez).

I don't think anyone on this thread has put Golovkin on a pedestal have they? He attracts sympathy, though, for being avoided, whereas some others attract ire for being able to fight anyone but choosing the path of least resistance.

Look I'm going to be honest. Golovkin is a real good fighter, I have always stated this.

The problem is I have lost interest in his career. Same happened with Mayweather and Pacquiao.

Jacobs is probablt the only other 160 fight I could get up for. I could give a toss about Saunders or Eubank.

Anyway I predict Alveraz to fight GGG next year and win a decision.

Maybe I'm deluded, but I think Canelo is getting better and GGG has already peaked. Maybe even slightly passed it.

AdamT wrote:Anyway I predict Alveraz to fight GGG next year and win a decision.

Maybe I'm deluded, but I think Canelo is getting better and GGG has already peaked. Maybe even slightly passed it.

I thought so too... then I thought about it. He basically caught Khan and fought an overmatched Smith. He looked very good... but he didn't exactly come with a new and improved rocket launcher. He just did what he normally does and caught
a) a weak chinned fighter who still hasn't won a title above 140lbs
b) basically a budget version of himself.

On second viewing, I thought he looked quite sharp with Khan. He started to time him well and was very patient.

No doubt GGG will be the favourite, but I have a feeling Canelo can shine, if the fight gets made.

If it doesn't, then I too will call him a ducker.

AdamT wrote:On second viewing, I thought he looked quite sharp with Khan. He started to time him well and was very patient.

No doubt GGG will be the favourite, but I have a feeling Canelo can shine, if the fight gets made.

If it doesn't, then I too will call him a ducker.

You mean like Danny Garcia did? Does that make Canelo special? Garcia special? Or is Khan just fairly easy to figure out?

Well I never really rated Khan, soooooooooooo!

He's long been proven to be little more than a flat track bully

Who?? GGG or Canelo??

Unless Golovkin suddenly ages by the time the fight takes place, Canelo has little chance of beating him. Canelo was getting backed up by Smith, who had no power whatsoever. When Golovkin backs Canelo up, he'll break Canelo. Also Canelo's concrete feet won't get him out of Golovkin's range. Canelo marks up easily, heck Mayweather and Lara busted up Canelo's face. A few bombs from GGG and Canelo will be left needing a face transplant...

Only one result in this fight GGG seeks and destroys Canelo and probably ends his career.

Jermaine2015 wrote:Unless Golovkin suddenly ages by the time the fight takes place, Canelo has little chance of beating him. Canelo was getting backed up by Smith, who had no power whatsoever. When Golovkin backs Canelo up, he'll break Canelo. Also Canelo's concrete feet won't get him out of Golovkin's range. Canelo marks up easily, heck Mayweather and Lara busted up Canelo's face. A few bombs from GGG and Canelo will be left needing a face transplant...

Only one result in this fight GGG seeks and destroys Canelo and probably ends his career.

This is how it will probably fare out, but I'm a Canelo man so I'm going to be biased!

Canelo vs Smith c250k buys.
Golovkin vs Brook c500k buys.

90:10 split?

Not 90/10, but I imagine high ppv were to do with an Englishman challenging the world middleweight champion.

Canelo is the bigger fighter in the states. 70/30, or maybe 60/40 at a push.