Pro12 (Round 4): Leinster vs Ospreys (Friday @ 19:35 on TG4/BBCW)

Apologies if someone has set up a thread for this already.

Leinster Lineup;

Healy - Cronin - Furlong
Toner - M Kearney
Jordi - Heaslip - VDF

Luke McGrath
J Sexton

Reid - Ringrose
D Kearney - Kirchner - Nacewa

Bench - Tracy, McGrath, Ross, Molony, Ruddock, Leavy, JGP, Carberry



Osprey Lineup;

James - Baldwin - Arhip
Ashley - AWJ
King - Ardron - Tipuric

Webb
Biggar

Matavesi - Beck
John - S Davies - Hassler

Bench - Parry, Smith, Fia, Davies, Baker, Habberfield, Howells, Evans

Pretty evenly matched teams. Would give the Ospreys the second row, halfbacks and centres. Between this and God's Chosen vs the Soapdodgers, could be quite a weekend for the Pro12.

Hopefully the forecast is wrong,this could be a good match

http://www.accuweather.com/en/ie/dublin/207931/evening-weather-forecast/207931?day=2

Disappointed Sam Davies isn't 10. He earned a the position for this game with Biggar closing the game out.

I guess we're going to play a territorial game

Biggar was always going to start, he'll start all the big games for them when he's available.

I have suggested for some time now that Davies may well have to move if he wants higher Welsh recognition.

For the O's is the arrival of Brad Davis as our Defence coach from Wasps.A seriously good reputation in the Aviva.Against the O's is the selection of Ashley and Biggar.The first is neither enforcer,grunter and shunter nor lineout specialist.The second is on the basis of his performances in NZ in the summer a very overrated 10.The last time he played against Sexton he got a right ol' schooling in 10 play.Delighted to be proved wrong tonight. Anybody know the Leinster pack weight.

exile jack wrote:For the O's is the arrival of Brad Davis as our Defence coach from Wasps.A seriously good reputation in the Aviva.Against the O's is the selection of Ashley and Biggar.The first is neither enforcer,grunter and shunter nor lineout specialist.The second is on the basis of his performances in NZ in the summer a very overrated 10.The last time he played against Sexton he got a right ol' schooling in 10 play.Delighted to be proved wrong tonight. Anybody know the Leinster pack weight.

Yeah that is a bit much. Ospreys have two 10s starting for them this evening, one of them is the best in the NH. I'll give you a clue, it certainly isn't Nigel's son. The questionable selection is Baldwin over Parry. The latter has been in excellent form, not putting a foot wrong from what I've seen. Baldwin had a run of poor form last season and it's lead some people to question whether his time spent in the Wales team was due to a purple patch - is he decent club player at best? We'll find out soon enough. I've been impressed with Ashley lately but I would have also started BBBD over him.

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:For the O's is the arrival of Brad Davis as our Defence coach from Wasps.A seriously good reputation in the Aviva.Against the O's is the selection of Ashley and Biggar.The first is neither enforcer,grunter and shunter nor lineout specialist.The second is on the basis of his performances in NZ in the summer a very overrated 10.The last time he played against Sexton he got a right ol' schooling in 10 play.Delighted to be proved wrong tonight. Anybody know the Leinster pack weight.

Yeah that is a bit much. Ospreys have two 10s starting for them this evening, one of them is the best in the NH. I'll give you a clue, it certainly isn't Nigel's son. The questionable selection is Baldwin over Parry. The latter has been in excellent form, not putting a foot wrong from what I've seen. Baldwin had a run of poor form last season and it's lead some people to question whether his time spent in the Wales team was due to a purple patch - is he decent club player at best? We'll find out soon enough. I've been impressed with Ashley lately but I would have also started BBBD over him.

I think Baldwin is one of several Welsh 'stars' who need stellar seasons to recover their reputations after last season and the summer tour.I accept Sam D is not the finished article but Dan B needs to radically adjust his game because he's too slow and predictable and his tactical kicking has gone to pot.Let's hope the next three games show he's not a one trick pony.

On train to Dublin and looking forward to this one. A few more returning for both sides and hopefully the sun keeps shining for a good evening.

Jack that is now about half a dozen posts of you denigrating Dan Biggar, I think it is about time you stopped now, yes he was totally shown up in the Final Test in NZ, I would say he more than held his own in the first 2, if as you say he was terrible in all the games he would have been dropped, because as has been shown in the past Gatland and more so Howley doesn't have the love fest for him they have for instance Priestland. You have to take into account the fact that Dan and most of the others had been playing continuous Rugby from the previous August, that was unlike the NZers who had played the S15 or whatever it is called for a couple of months so were totally fresh.

Let's have a look at not only the Wales Tests in the summer but also what has happened in the RC since V WALES +18 +14 +40, V OZ (a) +34
V OZ (h) +20 V ARG (h) +35 V SA (h) +28. So looking at those results did we Wales do so badly I would venture to say NO, and IMO neither did our main controller.
Personally for tonights game I would have had Sam starting with Dan coming off the bench and would have left Dan Evans at 15, there has been a lot of talk not only on our website but in the general media to have both of our 10s on the field at the same time, first of all to have a left and right kicking option and playmaker, and also for the need to play both as one of them could leave and the general thoughts is that would be Sam. I'm all for trying different styles but is tonights game the one to try it for the first time. I would say no. Just have to wait and see I suppose.

Dublin is chilling in cloudy sunshine. 17degrees with a bit of a breeze. Should be 14degrees for the game. Under the lights on a Friday night with most of the 'names' for both sides available this could be a half decent match.

Bus strikes in Dublin today will impact on people getting to the game..... what am I saying most will just take the d'o'rt.


Should be a good game.

wayne wrote:Jack that is now about half a dozen posts of you denigrating Dan Biggar, I think it is about time you stopped now, yes he was totally shown up in the Final Test in NZ, I would say he more than held his own in the first 2, if as you say he was terrible in all the games he would have been dropped, because as has been shown in the past Gatland and more so Howley doesn't have the love fest for him they have for instance Priestland. You have to take into account the fact that Dan and most of the others had been playing continuous Rugby from the previous August, that was unlike the NZers who had played the S15 or whatever it is called for a couple of months so were totally fresh.

Let's have a look at not only the Wales Tests in the summer but also what has happened in the RC since V WALES +18  +14 +40, V OZ (a) +34
V OZ (h) +20 V ARG (h) +35 V SA (h) +28. So looking at those results did we Wales do so badly I would venture to say NO, and IMO neither did our main controller.
Personally for tonights game I would have had Sam starting with Dan coming off the bench and would have left Dan Evans at 15, there has been a lot of talk not only on our website but in the general media to have both of our 10s on the field at the same time, first of all to have a left and right kicking option and playmaker, and also for the need to play both as one of them could leave and the general thoughts is that would be Sam. I'm all for trying different styles but is tonights game the one to try it for the first time. I would say no. Just have to wait and see I suppose.  

I don't think it's denigration to point out that Dan B is overrated.He hasn't been on form for quite some time.As I said in a previous post I think he's well behind Russell,Farrell,Sexton and Ford for the Lions given his performances.Whether those performances are the result of the style he's told to play is a moot point.I also said he needed a stellar season to merit a Lions place.Perhaps it'll start tonight.Hope so.The Welsh player in NZ who did look absolutely knackered was AWJ.

Jack I've just read all your comments on here since you came back from NZ, all I have to say if all the players you mention in those combined posts are what you think of them, God help the Argentine, Australian and South Africans who lost on average by more than Wales did, and that with a few good months of rest which we weren't afforded. We are not going to agree on this subject so that is me done.

As Will from the Inbetweeners once said "well that was f**king dreadful"

Errors killing it. Leinster look good, reminding me of the Leinster of old.

Webb has been uncharacteristically poor and Davies looks out of his depth. Need to start with a proper back 3 rather than a make shift one.

Tandy tombola strikes again. You're playing away against a top side and you make unnecessary changes.

mikey_dragon wrote:Errors killing it. Leinster look good, reminding me of the Leinster of old.

Webb has been uncharacteristically poor and Davies looks out of his depth. Need to start with a proper back 3 rather than a make shift one.

King and Tipuric also not even at the races but its okay Mikey we all know they are the best around, thats right isn't it?

First real challenge of the season and coming up way short

Webb having a terrible game so far so slow and not keeping up in the breakdowns. Why change a winning team

Biggar was always going to start, he'll start all the big games which to a point I can understand but why try and cram Davies into the side.

He's not a XV, Evans must be sat on bench chuckling to himself.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Errors killing it. Leinster look good, reminding me of the Leinster of old.

Webb has been uncharacteristically poor and Davies looks out of his depth. Need to start with a proper back 3 rather than a make shift one.

King and Tipuric also not even at the races but its okay Mikey we all know they are the best around, thats right isn't it?

First real challenge of the season and coming up way short

Which was inevitable when the team sheet came out. Altho the Ospreys have been dire...

So Leinster very good or ospreys gash?

Both..

This is vey enjoyable. Leinster good to very good. Ospreys - could yet surprise but unlikely.

And now Ospreys will fight back to win the match.

Leinster down to 14 with a sin bin for Sexton.

27 points.

And there's five.

And a conversion.

20 points needed.

And another 5.

Much better with Webb off

And a conversion. 13 points needed.

Leinster being impudent and trying to score more points.

But to no avail as the mighty Ospreys wrestle it back and attack.

Oh well time has run out. Leinster sneak it.

Deserved win, shame the Ospreys did not turn up for 60mins

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Errors killing it. Leinster look good, reminding me of the Leinster of old.

Webb has been uncharacteristically poor and Davies looks out of his depth. Need to start with a proper back 3 rather than a make shift one.

King and Tipuric also not even at the races but its okay Mikey we all know they are the best around, thats right isn't it?

First real challenge of the season and coming up way short

Yeah that's about the gist of it. Out of the three you have mentioned there Tips is the only capable international player - in spite of this I do think he's a bit overhyped but I made my thoughts known on that.

Anyway strong finish from the Ospreys - promising performance from guys like AWJ, BBBD, Baldwin - bodes well for Wales. Halfbacks were terrible. Matavesi made some errors but to be fair he gave it his all, as did Ben John but this guy isn't a winger - you don't put a centre on the wing against the Irish, these guys grow up playing Gaelic football and hurling so they're awesome at kicking and under the high ball. Nicky Smith I'm not convinced on at all, looked alright when he burst onto the scene but never really recovered from that injury setback.

Well we got out of that what we deserved SFA, totally outmuscled for the first 50 minutes, I said a few weeks ago that Tyler Ardron is the best 8 playing in Wales, tonight he was not far off the worst, I said before that Peers should not be near that team and was proved correct you NEED strong people for the scrum, Mauls and carrying, he provides none of it, I must admit I really like Scott Baldwin, tonight he was a penalty deficit machine. Rhys Webb had a very poor game, and I'm afraid Dan B could do nothing about it with the ball he received. This experiment of Sam Davies as a full back and being the 2nd receiver or joint first receiver from the F/B position has to be tried against a lesser team, it really came together in the 2nd half, but too little too late.

Well done Leinster. Great team, great squad, lots of players playing superbly well.

Sexton looks back on point, VD Flier very impressive and smartly used.

Ospreys came up a long way short. Hopefully that will do us some good, penalty count was appalling in the first half.

How did the Leinster centres get on?

Massive reality check after 3 bpw's.
Realistically though few teams will take a point away from the RDS so no real harm done.

the real mystery for my though is why drop Dan Evans?, this guy has to be the most underappreciated FB in Wales. I was disappointed when we released him several years ago and completely baffled when the Dragons released him, he has been outstanding in the 1st 3 games and he is dropped because Tandy doesn't know how to tell Sam Davies "sorry bit Biggar is still 1st choice 10".
Oh well look on the bright side O's fans, nice dilemma having Wales best 2 10's

wayne wrote:Well we got out of that what we deserved SFA, totally outmuscled for the first 50 minutes, I said a few weeks ago that Tyler Ardron is the best 8 playing in Wales, tonight he was not far off the worst, I said before that Peers should not be near that team and was proved correct you NEED strong people for the scrum, Mauls and carrying, he provides none of it, I must admit I really like Scott Baldwin, tonight he was a penalty deficit machine. Rhys Webb had a very poor game, and I'm afraid Dan B could do nothing about it with the ball he received. This experiment of Sam Davies as a full back and being the 2nd receiver or joint first receiver from the F/B position has to be tried against a lesser team, it really came together in the 2nd half, but too little too late.  

Wayne,

I was thinking same about Ardron but tonight he was very poor. Then again so was Ashley but I've never rated him and how Davies and AWJ aren't first choice is crazy, we've had our disagreements on King but again tonight I just don't see what the fuss is, Tipuric as well was quiet but behind a lightweight 2nd row hard to get going.

As for Davies at XV over Evans lord only knows Tandys thinking behind but I think its something to do with him not having the minerals to drop Biggar. Evans should be XV then a straight shoot out between Davies and Biggar.

I'll be honest after some of the stuff written on various social media and by the likes of the WOL rag I did have a little chuckle about tonights result. However its the first loss of the season and how they pick themselves up from here will determine a lot, they now have Ulster and the Blues so need something from those games.

RDS is never an easy place to go and you need all your big players to perform, nit taking anything away from Leinster but your big players just didnt turn up tonight.

Maine man wrote:How did the Leinster centres get on?

I think Ringrose looks superb

Maine man wrote:How did the Leinster centres get on?

adde little to the game, trying to bash their tiny frames up the middle of the park and getting repeatedly squashed.

Other than that, I'm sure they were very good at filling in space in the backline that Ospreys had to attack.

2ndtimeround wrote:Massive reality check after 3 bpw's.
Realistically though few teams will take a point away from the RDS so no real harm done.

the real mystery for my though is why drop Dan Evans?, this guy has to be the most underappreciated FB in Wales. I was disappointed when we released him several years ago and completely baffled when the Dragons released him, he has been outstanding in the 1st 3 games and he is dropped because Tandy doesn't know how to tell Sam Davies "sorry bit Biggar is still 1st choice 10".
Oh well look on the bright side O's fans, nice dilemma having Wales best 2 10's

Seems a bit of a loser perspective to take there - Ospreys should have done better and almost got the fourth try.

After witnessing Sam be out of his depth last night I don't think you can claim he's one of the two best 10s in Wales... I think Anscombe has the No.2 spot behind Biggar. Reminds me of last season when there were calls for Sam to be thrust into the Wales team on the back of a loss to Clermont - hopefully this allows some folk to see some reality. He's a decent player but not international quality and I've long stood by this view.

Maine man wrote:How did the Leinster centres get on?

Reid isn't a bosh merchant, but he's probably a good ball player. Ringrose looks promising. Both were outmuscled by their opposite men, who are a lot bigger.

Luke McGrath, Sexton and your back 3 were all very good. Van Der Flier was the standout performer for me, he's the Ireland starting 7 on this form. Sean O'Who? Also I think we can see that Jack McGrath and Mike Ross are your best players at prop .

I was impressed with the Leinster attack, so quick and free-flowing. Hopefully the Leinster of old are making a comeback. Along with Ulster and Glasgow they might be the best team in the league. Blues and Ospreys not too far behind on current form.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How did the Leinster centres get on?

Reid isn't a bosh merchant, but he's probably a good ball player. Ringrose looks promising. Both were outmuscled by their opposite men, who are a lot bigger.

Luke McGrath, Sexton and your back 3 were all very good. Van Der Flier was the standout performer for me, he's the Ireland starting 7 on this form. Sean O'Who? Also I think we can see that Jack McGrath and Mike Ross are your best players at prop .

I was impressed with the Leinster attack, so quick and free-flowing. Hopefully the Leinster of old are making a comeback. Along with Ulster and Glasgow they might be the best team in the league. Blues and Ospreys not too far behind on current form.

The hype brigade have already written off JvdF for Dan Leavy. The competition for places is excellent though.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How did the Leinster centres get on?

Reid isn't a bosh merchant, but he's probably a good ball player. Ringrose looks promising. Both were outmuscled by their opposite men, who are a lot bigger.

Luke McGrath, Sexton and your back 3 were all very good. Van Der Flier was the standout performer for me, he's the Ireland starting 7 on this form. Sean O'Who? Also I think we can see that Jack McGrath and Mike Ross are your best players at prop .

I was impressed with the Leinster attack, so quick and free-flowing. Hopefully the Leinster of old are making a comeback. Along with Ulster and Glasgow they might be the best team in the league. Blues and Ospreys not too far behind on current form.

The hype brigade have already written off JvdF for Dan Leavy. The competition for places is excellent though.

I didn't write off VDF if it's me you're referring to. I'm a fan of his but i just think Leavy is a better all rounder. He can play across the back row and is better at the breakdown. VDF is a specialist 7.


That last night was VDFs best game for Leinster. And he is only going to get better, so good for Leinster that they can rotate them.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:Well we got out of that what we deserved SFA, totally outmuscled for the first 50 minutes, I said a few weeks ago that Tyler Ardron is the best 8 playing in Wales, tonight he was not far off the worst, I said before that Peers should not be near that team and was proved correct you NEED strong people for the scrum, Mauls and carrying, he provides none of it, I must admit I really like Scott Baldwin, tonight he was a penalty deficit machine. Rhys Webb had a very poor game, and I'm afraid Dan B could do nothing about it with the ball he received. This experiment of Sam Davies as a full back and being the 2nd receiver or joint first receiver from the F/B position has to be tried against a lesser team, it really came together in the 2nd half, but too little too late.  

Wayne,

I was thinking same about Ardron but tonight he was very poor.  Then again so was Ashley but I've never rated him and how Davies and AWJ aren't first choice is crazy, we've had our disagreements on King but again tonight I just don't see what the fuss is, Tipuric as well was quiet but behind a lightweight 2nd row hard to get going.

As for Davies at XV over Evans lord only knows Tandys thinking behind but I think its something to do with him not having the minerals to drop Biggar.  Evans should be XV then a straight shoot out between Davies and Biggar.

I'll be honest after some of the stuff written on various social media and by the likes of the WOL rag I did have a little chuckle about tonights result.  However its the first loss of the season and how they pick themselves up from here will determine a lot, they now have Ulster and the Blues so need something from those games.

RDS is never an easy place to go and you need all your big players to perform, nit taking anything away from Leinster but your big players just didnt turn up tonight.

For BW and a few others I would have selected Dan E and Sam D to start last nights game, but honestly do you think we lost that game in the manner we did because of those 2 selections? Because I didn't it was down to our front 5 who were smashed Baldwin (and I know Scott very well) was terrible, I didn't think Assey was at all prominent in the loose and as I said in my last nights post Ashley shouldn't be anywhere near that team in such a game. Tyler Ardron who I've been championing on here this season was totally insignificant. Mikey wont like this but Baker was quite decent IMO when he came on made some really good carries. I wonder do you pick people like Ardron, King and Tipuric if you have a powder puff in the boiler house, it is all well and good having a mobile back row, but if they have to stay down and push in every scrum what benefit are you getting from their mobility. I would select Ardron, Tipuric and Baker next week behind BBBD and AWJ, you still have lineout options and mobility with GRUNT, with a front row of Smith, Parry and Arhip.
We leaked 4 tries so I doubt Brad Davis (defence coach) was very happy, but then again for that game would he have selected that team for its defensive qualities. I seriously doubt.
IMO I think it was ludicrous to play that new system for the first time in that fixture, it should have been tried before, it obviously started to work very well towards the end of that game, whether Tandy perseveres with it this weekend is open to question. I said on here a week or so ago anything more than 6 points for these 3 games would be fine by me, I seriously doubt we will reach that figure now, if Tandy is willing to forego that sort of return to really bed in this system, perhaps it's worth it.

profitius wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How did the Leinster centres get on?

Reid isn't a bosh merchant, but he's probably a good ball player. Ringrose looks promising. Both were outmuscled by their opposite men, who are a lot bigger.

Luke McGrath, Sexton and your back 3 were all very good. Van Der Flier was the standout performer for me, he's the Ireland starting 7 on this form. Sean O'Who? Also I think we can see that Jack McGrath and Mike Ross are your best players at prop .

I was impressed with the Leinster attack, so quick and free-flowing. Hopefully the Leinster of old are making a comeback. Along with Ulster and Glasgow they might be the best team in the league. Blues and Ospreys not too far behind on current form.

The hype brigade have already written off JvdF for Dan Leavy. The competition for places is excellent though.

I didn't write off VDF if it's me you're referring to.  I'm a fan of his but i just think Leavy is a better all rounder. He can play across the back row and is better at the breakdown. VDF is a specialist 7.


That last night was VDFs best game for Leinster. And he is only going to get better, so good for Leinster that they can rotate them.

Personally I thought he was Motm excellent performance, as for the 2 centres, I didn't think that much of them but as was said in commentary was that the kind of game that they were asked to play suit them, I don't think so.

Wayne I thought the Ospreys defence looked a lot better than last year - the way that they defend IE two players isolating a ball carrier and driving him backwards. They were doing a lot of that. Any team would find it difficult to stop Leinster scoring - some uncharacteristic yet simple errors and a yellow card is what helped Leinster get 4 tries. Also before the YC the Ospreys scrum looked powerful and drove Leinster back a couple times - I agree with you on most points except I think Ashley did well, again. I can't fault the lad tbh. Baker did alright when he came on but I'm not sure he's done enough to get back into the starting team yet. I guess it's nice to have a couple good players vying for a position. The only changes I would make for the next game is to start BBBD in the 2nd row, Howells on the wing and Evans at full back. I can't see your team starting that poorly two weeks in a row, I think this game was a reality check for them and the coaches.