New Zealand told to build a bigger stadium by England boss Ian Ritchie!

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http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/new-zealand-blacks-told-go-11972580

England boss Ian Ritchie, having already given warning the RFU will torpedo any radical plan to move the autumn internationals or the Six Nations, has fired another in the direction of the southern hemisphere.

The New Zealand Rugby Union has been advised to go and build a bigger stadium if it wants to generate more income as the row over introducing a global season intensifies.

England boss Ian Ritchie, having already given warning the RFU will torpedo any radical plan to move the autumn internationals or the Six Nations, has fired another in the direction of the southern hemisphere.

Unions kings New Zealand have allegedly demanded half of the matchday revenue generated when they come to Europe to face the likes of Wales and England in fixtures following the 2019 World Cup.

There aren’t any tours in place after that tournament and the back-to-back world champion All Blacks have demanded cash to play at the Principality Stadium, Twickenham and the like.

New Zealand, Australia and South Africa want to increase their income to help fund the professional game in those countries.

NZRU boss chief executive Steve Tew has indicated the back-to-back World Cup holders will hold the northern hemisphere to ransom and seek individual fixtures if the sport’s leaders cannot reach a deal on the thorny issue of introducing a global season.

“We need a different season structure than we have now and we’re not going to default to the current one. We’re going to force that issue,” he declared.

“People will have to come to the table and we’ll negotiate individual matches in 2020.”

Tew claimed, without a compromise, there wouldn’t be a window for the Lions to tour or a World Cup.

But the sport’s most powerful and richest union, England, isn’t prepared to dance to the Kiwi tune, according to its chief executive Ritchie.

“When we went down there (Australia) for the three Test matches in June, we got no money at all,” he pointed out.

“They get the gate money and TV money and that’s the same for Lions tours as well, so I’m not sure I get this argument.

“I didn’t ask for a revenue share from Australia. And ditto from the Lions, so I don’t see why there is a particularly strong case for arguing the other way.

“If we manage to sell out 82,000 at Twickenham because of our efforts and because we’ve invested in the stadium, that’s something we’ve rightly invested in.

“If you look at the amount of money the RFU has spent on Twickenham since it was conceived, well then of course we should get a return on that.

“Of course they would say they want more money but there is nothing to stop Australia or New Zealand building a stadium.”

And Ritchie suggested: “Go and build a stadium if you want to increase your revenue growth.

“We’ve all been through it – Wales, Ireland and Scotland too. You incur some debt in stadium build and then you reap the benefits of that. We keep what we make to put back into the game.”

Ritchie hinted England may stop paying countries to play them outside the autumn World Rugby Test window, as has been the case.

“If you throw everything up in the air you might say: ‘Why would you pay that?’” he said.

Wales have also paid 'start money' to opponents so they can stage an extra autumn Test with cash-strapped Australia and South Africa having benefited from the policy.

Ritchie again dismissed the notion of a unified global season, saying: “As I understand it the southern hemisphere don’t want to play in their summer and neither do we, so bringing those calendars together becomes very difficult.

“We still see rugby as a winter sport. The Six Nations and the autumn internationals are important bed-rocks, so we don’t anticipate change there.

“The Six Nations, as far as the date in the calendar is concerned, works well. We have a great TV deal and we have stadia that are filled for every game.

“Why would you want to change something that works really well? So I can’t see there being any significant move in that.

“And I think as well that the autumn internationals work terribly well for us as well. The focus of discussion is on the summer (June), although one year will be a Lions and another a World Cup. Discussions are ongoing.”

Rugby’s leading decision-makers, including top officials from the WRU, have been in Buenos Aires, Argentina for a series of key World Rugby committee meetings to discuss and formulate policy.

WRU chairman Gareth Davies said, in the wake of Wales’ summer tour of New Zealand, the Six Nations didn’t need to be moved “for the sake of it” because it works where it is now (February and March).

But he added: “if it were necessary to move it in order that it were a piece of the jigsaw that enabled northern and southern hemispheres to have a coherent global season, then it’s worth doing.”

Union chief executive Martyn Phillips had said: “I have an open mind and people ask me about changing to summer rugby, moving the Six Nations tournament and altering the format.

“My whole philosophy is you review everything all the time so I’d review the Six Nations every year.

“There are a lot of conversations about the global season and we’re looking to make things better and the logical season for players and supporters.

“People have been very open about their views and there won’t be a solution for everyone because of the two different hemispheres.”

Welsh beaches for me ebop. Plenty of beautiful sandy ones here. However, I find them really spoiled by the grey sky! I don't mind the cold when it's still blue skies and sunshine. But it's the complete blanket cover of grey for days and weeks on end that get me

SecretFly wrote:What's that sign pointing to at 'Oliver's'?  Door?

The satellite dish. They're really proud of it. Shows sport and everything

And where's all the sunbathers in bikinis?

And the water?

Wait a minute

There's something a bit off about Cleethorpes

ebop wrote:And where's all the sunbathers in bikinis?
s

Rugby players dont wear bikinis in this country.

This is probably where the cultural misunderstanding with Tuillagi and his budgie smugglers occurred on his return to New Zealand (his natural poached talent home)

I thought we had decided that the only player England has that is actually 'poached' is Nathan Hughes.

As for the zero return for NZ for all their players going overseas. Well the individual players are not leaving for nothing, and unless they choose to spend the rest of their lives overseas a decent proportion of what they do earn will find its way back to NZ.

...into their personal bank accounts.

It may be money you wouldn't say no to as an individual, but they're not going to be donating much of it to New Zealand rugby, lost...

This whole thing about stealing NZ players is not entirely fair anyway

We do what we can to incentivise(?) clubs to play English talent over foreign born.

We also have the situation that a lot of 'colonial types' do have blood ties back to England and yes we have taken advantage of that

I am not sure what else there is to do that is practical? We go over this lots of times but in England in particular there are very few project players (i.e. Hughes at the moment - who else?). Most of the foreign born players have usually spent a significant part of their youth (and therefore rugby development) in this country and/or have an English parent (Even Te'o). So I am not quite sure why we in particular get so much grief over this issue.

There is one other nationality that is worth mentioning - and those are the Zimbabwean born players. But then they end up playing for everyone (e.g. Pocock) and I wouldn't begrudge them seeking new countries to live in and play for.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Poor ebop! It'll be ok, don't worry. 2nd in the world will still be pretty good for you.

7.5, did you watch any RC games this weekend?

Actually Twickenham was half empty this morning.

No 7&1/2 wrote:True, you may fall further when your players get paid what you can afford.

7.5, maybe you caught some of the ABs v SA highlights?

Just for ebop, this is a two min walk from my front door. Looks very sandy to me......oh and please name one nation that has never played a player born somewhere else and qualified on residency (teir 1)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swanage+beach&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis7ND_mM3PAhXkAsAKHUzFASEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=648#imgrc=rD2qse-QV1C_TM%3A

Knackeredknees wrote:Just for ebop, this is a two min walk from my front door. Looks very sandy to me......oh and please name one nation that has never played a player born somewhere else and qualified on residency (teir 1)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swanage+beach&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis7ND_mM3PAhXkAsAKHUzFASEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=648#imgrc=rD2qse-QV1C_TM%3A

Beautiful sandy beach and less rain than Auckland!

Studland Bay is one of my favourites in your neck of the woods.

ebop wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:True, you may fall further when your players get paid what you can afford.

7.5, maybe you caught some of the ABs v SA highlights?

No, watched the whole game. When those players get paid what NZ can afford though...They'll be off to France!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

ebop wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:True, you may fall further when your players get paid what you can afford.

7.5, maybe you caught some of the ABs v SA highlights?

No, watched the whole game. When those players get paid what NZ can afford though...They'll be off to France!

Pretty good win eh

Did you see any 'significant' weaknesses?

stub wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Just for ebop, this is a two min walk from my front door. Looks very sandy to me......oh and please name one nation that has never played a player born somewhere else and qualified on residency (teir 1)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swanage+beach&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis7ND_mM3PAhXkAsAKHUzFASEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=648#imgrc=rD2qse-QV1C_TM%3A

Beautiful sandy beach and less rain than Auckland!

Studland Bay is one of my favourites in your neck of the woods.

Um which bit? Normal or naturist part of the beach?

Knackeredknees wrote:

stub wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Just for ebop, this is a two min walk from my front door. Looks very sandy to me......oh and please name one nation that has never played a player born somewhere else and qualified on residency (teir 1)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swanage+beach&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis7ND_mM3PAhXkAsAKHUzFASEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=648#imgrc=rD2qse-QV1C_TM%3A

Beautiful sandy beach and less rain than Auckland!

Studland Bay is one of my favourites in your neck of the woods.

Um which bit? Normal or naturist part of the beach?

Ha ha! Never have found the naturist part but did know about its existence.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Actually Twickenham was half empty this morning.

You could look at it as being half empty, or you could look at the fact that 48,000 turned up. Thus making it the third most attended match in this year's Rugby Championship. This on a day when England had a full house at Wembley, the rugby league Grand Final was on and there was a full program of lower league football matches. I don't know the crossover of interest between rugby fans and these events (probably not massive), but it would have made me think twice about travelling to a game that I was interested in but didn't really care about (if you follow me?). I wonder how many people in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia or Argentina would have turned up to see a neutral rugby match (outside of a World Cup setting of course).

ebop wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

ebop wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:True, you may fall further when your players get paid what you can afford.

7.5, maybe you caught some of the ABs v SA highlights?

No, watched the whole game. When those players get paid what NZ can afford though...They'll be off to France!

Pretty good win eh

Did you see any 'significant' weaknesses?

Trying to move on from NZ spending more than they can afford then?

17 wins on the trott 7.5. Could be a new record on the cards if we're lucky. But those Australians are renowned party poopers. You know all about that right? RWC and all.

So why don't you have the money? Can't continue living beyond your means.

What do you mean?

NZR have $60 million in the bank

I think 7.5 that you are praying NZR goes bust

That's pretty sad mate

Sad sad sad

Shameful actually

So they don't need or want a share in Englands profits; glad we got there in the end!

Ha

Well played

It's an ongoing battle to retain players and you know that. NZ struggle with this but there are countries worse affected and England and France are the main culprits, and you also know this.

Cumbrian wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Actually Twickenham was half empty this morning.

You could look at it as being half empty, or you could look at the fact that 48,000 turned up. Thus making it the third most attended match in this year's Rugby Championship.  This on a day when England had a full house at Wembley, the rugby league Grand Final was on and there was a full program of lower league football matches. I don't know the crossover of interest between rugby fans and these events (probably not massive), but it would have made me think twice about travelling to a game that I was interested in but didn't really care about (if you follow me?).  I wonder how many people in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia or Argentina would have turned up to see a neutral rugby match (outside of a World Cup setting of course).

There is massive crossover interest down here between the two codes, there are a number of Kiwis and Aussies in both the Warrington and Wigan sides. The game was at Old Trafford.

International Football was at Wembley I think. That's probably what he was referring to.

ebop wrote:Ha

Well played

It's an ongoing battle to retain players and you know that. NZ struggle with this but there are countries worse affected and England and France are the main culprits, and you also know this.

True, the clubs have more than enough money to pay what they like, NZ don't.

stub wrote:International Football was at Wembley I think. That's probably what he was referring to.

I wasn't sure, I wouldnt have a clue about any football games.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

stub wrote:International Football was at Wembley I think. That's probably what he was referring to.

I wasn't sure, I wouldnt have a clue about any football games.

That only reflects well on you!

I wasn't sure, I wouldnt have a clue about any football games.

Be wary mate - lack of footy knowledge and a non UK national - you are a prime candidate for the new England Manager's post.

ebop wrote:Ha

Well played

It's an ongoing battle to retain players and you know that. NZ struggle with this but there are countries worse affected and England and France are the main culprits, and you also know this.

So we are back to NZ getting upset over English clubs paying too much money for NZ players?

I think we have covered everything else.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Actually Twickenham was half empty this morning.

You could look at it as being half empty, or you could look at the fact that 48,000 turned up. Thus making it the third most attended match in this year's Rugby Championship.  This on a day when England had a full house at Wembley, the rugby league Grand Final was on and there was a full program of lower league football matches. I don't know the crossover of interest between rugby fans and these events (probably not massive), but it would have made me think twice about travelling to a game that I was interested in but didn't really care about (if you follow me?).  I wonder how many people in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia or Argentina would have turned up to see a neutral rugby match (outside of a World Cup setting of course).

There is massive crossover interest down here between the two codes, there are a number of Kiwis and Aussies in both the Warrington and Wigan sides. The game was at Old Trafford.

Not much crossover of interest here. A bit, but not much. In general (very sweeping generalisations I might add) league fans think union is for southern softies and for a lot of union fans league is just for them 'oop North. A massive north south divide in league and union support, even though there are northern union and southern league teams. All very confusing. But basically your average northern league fan might balk at the idea of stepping foot in Twickers. Not all, but a lot I'd say.

Griff wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Actually Twickenham was half empty this morning.

You could look at it as being half empty, or you could look at the fact that 48,000 turned up. Thus making it the third most attended match in this year's Rugby Championship.  This on a day when England had a full house at Wembley, the rugby league Grand Final was on and there was a full program of lower league football matches. I don't know the crossover of interest between rugby fans and these events (probably not massive), but it would have made me think twice about travelling to a game that I was interested in but didn't really care about (if you follow me?).  I wonder how many people in South Africa, New Zealand, Australia or Argentina would have turned up to see a neutral rugby match (outside of a World Cup setting of course).

There is massive crossover interest down here between the two codes, there are a number of Kiwis and Aussies in both the Warrington and Wigan sides. The game was at Old Trafford.

Not much crossover of interest here.  A bit, but not much.  In general (very sweeping generalisations I might add) league fans think union is for southern softies and for a lot of union fans league is just for them 'oop North.  A massive north south divide in league and union support, even though there are northern union and southern league teams.  All very confusing.  But basically your average northern league fan might balk at the idea of stepping foot in Twickers.  Not all, but a lot I'd say.

Yes us (and the Aussies) look on the codes as just variations of many similar skill sets, lots of Auckland Rugby players jump between the codes throughout their formative years and even to up the highest level, but I know what you mean Griff, Sam Burgess didnt look too comfortable on Twickers at all, yet guys like Henry Paul and Shontayne hape didnt appear phased at all.

Would have helped had Burgess played at 6 but didn't look out of place bar some silly positioning. Hape was so limited.

Given another 6 months, Burgess could have been very good. Other than that, it's only really Jason Robinson among British League players who's made the switch from League to Union completely successfully, unless you count Owen Farrell.

Andy Farrell would have done, I think, but for the knee injuries that cost him both a yard of pace and sufficient time to really adapt.

Meanwhile there are plenty of good Welsh and English players who went from Union to League and sometimes back again, and as laurie says, it's much more common in both Aus and NZ.

I think fundamentally it comes down to learning the breakdown. If you learned it as a teenager then it seems to stick. If you didn't, then it's much harder to learn.

I coach 11 year olds, the best of whom are already making very nuanced decisions about the breakdown and whether to hold back, clear out, or go for the ball - but they've built up to that over 3 years.

Adult professionals switching codes to Union have weeks to learn what the players around them have spent years developing, whereas League skills are at least still similar to Union ones, albeit often at higher intensity and physicality.

It'll be interesting how Josh Charnley does at Sale. Diamond reckons he could be a full back as well as a winger. Incredible try-scoring record for Wigan. Big lad at over 6ft and over 16 stone.

He's only 25 and so has plenty of time and, like Robinson in his time, doesn't have to learn a forward's skill set.

Is that the same Charnley who played in the Grand Final this weekend? He looked a bit special. His try was very well taken.

Poorfour wrote:Is that the same Charnley who played in the Grand Final this weekend? He looked a bit special. His try was very well taken.

Yep, that's the one.

Poorfour wrote:Given another 6 months, Burgess could have been very good. Other than that, it's only really Jason Robinson among British League players who's made the switch from League to Union completely successfully, unless you count Owen Farrell.

Andy Farrell would have done, I think, but for the knee injuries that cost him both a yard of pace and sufficient time to really adapt.

Meanwhile there are plenty of good Welsh and English players who went from Union to League and sometimes back again, and as laurie says, it's much more common in both Aus and NZ.

I think fundamentally it comes down to learning the breakdown. If you learned it as a teenager then it seems to stick. If you didn't, then it's much harder to learn.

I coach 11 year olds, the best of whom are already making very nuanced decisions about the breakdown and whether to hold back, clear out, or go for the ball - but they've built up to that over 3 years.

Adult professionals switching codes to Union have weeks to learn what the players around them have spent years developing, whereas League skills are at least still similar to Union ones, albeit often at higher intensity and physicality.

Andy Farrell also had the toe injury and the car accident that cost too much time at the wrong time in his career. There was a huge problem about where he fit best in Union though, a guy big and wide enough to play 2nd row with the kicking skills of a fly half. I do remember that European game when he kicked the Scarlets to distraction - it was a sign of what might have been.

I agree that Burgess too could have been brilliant given time, but there was so much pressure on him and expectation that its not really a surprise he ran back to league

You could argue that Burrell and Myler are both modest successes.

What Robinson achieved probably put too much expectation both that all we had to do was import a league star to find a Union one, and for the league guys that all they had to do was turn up to be a star in our code.

You look at Benji Marshall who was an absolute star in League (check out his YouTube vids, they're incredible!). He played about 6 games in union before going back.

It sometimes just doesn't work out.

There does seem to be a penchant for NZ (and maybe Aus) 'stars' to be very misogynist too. Is this just sportsmen?

Eddie is in the news again

He's annoyed everyone wants to play like the ABs

Cyril wrote:You look at Benji Marshall who was an absolute star in League (check out his YouTube vids, they're incredible!). He played about 6 games in union before going back.

It sometimes just doesn't work out.

Benji was also a union and touch star as a kid. Only went to league when he was scouted on a high school trip to Aussie. Put into Keebra Park on the Gold coast (top Australian league school - it has a large number of kiwis on scholarships).

Was Benji the guy with the massive chin that played in that BasBaas game years ago?

Cyril wrote:You look at Benji Marshall who was an absolute star in League (check out his YouTube vids, they're incredible!). He played about 6 games in union before going back.

It sometimes just doesn't work out.

Dont know how Benji comes into the discussion, he doesn't come from Auckland and he hasn't played Rugby for England. Perhaps Ben Te'o would be a better example?

Because he does come from Auckland but has never played rugby for England? The Wums are poor when you don't get it quite right!

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Cyril wrote:You look at Benji Marshall who was an absolute star in League (check out his YouTube vids, they're incredible!). He played about 6 games in union before going back.

It sometimes just doesn't work out.

Dont know how Benji comes into the discussion, he doesn't come from Auckland and he hasn't played Rugby for England. Perhaps Ben Te'o would be a better example?

He's a big fan of pebbly beaches but, ironically, has a holiday home in Cleethorpes.

He's a big fan of pebbly beaches but, ironically, has a holiday home in Cleethorpes

What's this with pebbly beaches! I feel denied - all we've got a miles of sand - where can I find these mythical pebbly beaches?