Edinburgh Rugby v Ulster Rugby

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Edinburgh Rugby v Ulster Rugby
Guiness Pro 12 Round 8
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Friday 4th November 2016, 19:35 Kick-off
Live on BBCS Alba and BBC NI

Teams
Edinburgh Rugby
(15-9): Blair Kinghorn, Damien Hoyland, Chris Dean, Phil Burleigh, Tom Brown, Jason Tovey, Sean Kennedy
(1-8): Jack Cosgrove, Neil Cochrane CAPTAIN, Murray McCallum, Fraser McKenzie, Ben Toolis, Viliame Mata, Jamie Ritchie, Magnus Bradbury
Replacements (16-23): Stuart McInally, Kyle Whyte, Felipe Arregui, Lewis Carmichael, Cornell Du Preez, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Duncan Weir, Michael Allen

Ulster Rugby
(15-9): C Piutau; T Bowe, L Marshall, S Windsor, R Lyttle, B Herron, R Pienaar;
(1-8): K McCall, R Herring (capt), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Kane, A Warwick, R Diack, C Joyce, P Marshall, A Cairns, J Stockdale

Referee: Andrew Brace (IRFU)
Assistant Referees: Dudley Phillips (IRFU), Lloyd Linton (SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

So Edinburgh take on Ulster this weekend in round 8.
Edinburgh come off a bad result losing to Zebre last week while Ulster also come off a loss to Munster last week.
The internationals coming up mean that squads for this could be interesting.  Ulster will lose 4 players to the Ireland squad this weekend as well as their lengthy injury list.

I can just feel a comeback.....

Cardiff make a great comeback and finish 34-28 against Treviso.

The Italians must be disgusted with themselves after getting the TBP. And they only get a LBP to got with it.

Ha! Cairns get's a try with his first touch! The irony!

How did this team lose to feckin Zebre last week?

Munster pound the Ospreys line. They were not to be denied. Kilcoyqne finishes off about 8 pounds at the line and they have their TBP.

24-0 to the men in red.

Great cover tackle from Kennedy in the build up to that try, but Ulster have cracked our defence twice with these short kicks over the top.

Well done to Aaron Cairns- debut and scores with his first touch

Tide has well and truly turned.

Ospreys SH was offside when he took the loose ball.

Ulster well on top now. We need to be clever and kick for territory.

And now Stockdale. The rookies are showing the seniors how to play.

Edinburgh in trouble now. Players all blowing and seemingly unable to slow this down. Need to compete for this restart.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Tide has well and truly turned.

Unfortunately you can't just faff around for 65 minutes and then reel a team in- but Edinburgh will rue it if they don't pick up the BP

Stockdale has been very impressive since he came on.

Dink over the top is killing us. We have no cover. We need to now slow this down.

We need this scrum to take a while.

Munster smashing Ospreys. Inevitable try number 5 by Copeland after a 5 minute camp on the try line.

33-0 with Bleyendaal's conversion.

That came off an Edinburgh boot.

Fulltime at Musgrave. Smashing victory for Munster. 33-0. It's not often that Ospreys get nilled.

The pain is over.

Congrats, Edinburgh. The better side by a long way.

Ulster, you're a joke. Big questions have to be asked from the coaching team.

Pete330v2 wrote:There was never a knock on there. Ref got that very wrong

He didn't have control of the ball and slid over the line with it - knock on is right. If it had been OVER the line when he hit it try would have been right.

RDW_Scotland wrote:How did this team lose to feckin Zebre last week?

Cos they are Edinburgh - haven't you been watching "the Edinburgh way"

Bullsh1t TJ

Anyway as Yazz said....the only way is up. That's a new low for Ulster

TJ wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:There was never a knock on there. Ref got that very wrong

He didn't have control of the ball and slid over the line with it - knock on is right.  If it had been OVER the line when he hit it try would have been right.

Rubbish. He was in control of the ball. It was 100% a try. Trust me, I'm not in the mood to defend this Ulster side, but it was a fair try.

Kinghorn another really good game as well - he looks class. Toolis actually did some work for a change but how good is Pienaar? the best player on the pitch by far if not the best in the pro 12

Munchkin wrote:

TJ wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:There was never a knock on there. Ref got that very wrong

He didn't have control of the ball and slid over the line with it - knock on is right.  If it had been OVER the line when he hit it try would have been right.

Rubbish. He was in control of the ball. It was 100% a try. Trust me, I'm not in the mood to defend this Ulster side, but it was a fair try.

How can he be in control of it when its tucked up under his ribs? another day another ref it might have been given especially as he asked "any reason not to award the try" but you could clearly see he did not have control of it as he slid over the line.

TJ wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

TJ wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:There was never a knock on there. Ref got that very wrong

He didn't have control of the ball and slid over the line with it - knock on is right.  If it had been OVER the line when he hit it try would have been right.

Rubbish. He was in control of the ball. It was 100% a try. Trust me, I'm not in the mood to defend this Ulster side, but it was a fair try.

How can he be in control of it when its tucked up under his ribs?  another day another ref it might have been given especially as he asked "any reason not to award the try" but you could clearly see he did not have control of it as he slid over the line.

He never lost contact with the ball. He grounded the ball fairly. The TMO claimed it was knocked on and that's what the ref called. They got it badly wrong.

That's all I'm saying about it. Not in the mood to get into a bitch fight.

Congratulations to Edinburgh. By far the better team, totally up for the game and fully deserving of the win.

The result wasn't a surprise but the half time re-shuffle of the Ulster pack was. It is increasingly apparent that Fat Nick was the only player holding the pack together and delivering the go forward to allow Ruan to work his magic. Yet gain Pienaar has to go into the ruck to stop a turnover - maybe Ulster should have registered him as a flanker?

Maurice made a very good point. OK, maybe they were below their usual standards but Windsor and Herron were absolutely dire. Atrocious. So far off the standard it was silly. Marshall is ten times better a 9 than either of them are at 10. Why then, when we are missing so many is Pienaar not made to start at 10?? Our performance certainly turned around with the arrival of Marshall and Stockdale (who was one of the few positives). Considering all the switch arounds and playing in odd positions, it is surely ridiculous that Pienaar to 10 came so late in the day. And with Windsor and Herron in the squad, it was likely that it was never part of the plan despite it evidently being one of the best thing that happened Ulster all game.

Also.... why has Lyttle been getting so much opportunity at Stockdales expence? He looks much superior. (and has a cracking arse!)

clivemcl wrote:
Also.... why has Lyttle been getting so much opportunity at Stockdales expence? He looks much superior. (and has a cracking arse!)

Perv!

Munchkin wrote:The pain is over.

Congrats, Edinburgh. The better side by a long way.

Ulster, you're a joke. Big questions have to be asked from the coaching team.

In the BBC report they say;

Edinburgh's fans are entitled to ask why their team has to suffer such a wounding loss in order to produce some of the stuff they delivered against the Ulstermen.

We might ask why we suffer a wounding loss and then collapse when we should be raring to put it right. Thats three Pro12 wins in a row now, and two of them have been miserable performances.

I believe in Les Kiss, but did he get to choose his own coaching staff? Doak has been Skills/Backs Coach for yonks- every time we throw an offload I hold my breath and we can barely pass the ball through the back line now. Lines of running are very predictable. Clarke has been forwards coach for yonks- still seeing Ruan Pienaar going into rucks to clear the ball every week, still seeing us look all over the shop at ruck time.

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:The pain is over.

Congrats, Edinburgh. The better side by a long way.

Ulster, you're a joke. Big questions have to be asked from the coaching team.

In the BBC report they say;

Edinburgh's fans are entitled to ask why their team has to suffer such a wounding loss in order to produce some of the stuff they delivered against the Ulstermen.

We might ask why we suffer a wounding loss and then collapse when we should be raring to put it right. Thats three Pro12 wins in a row now, and two of them have been miserable performances.

I believe in Les Kiss, but did he get to choose his own coaching staff? Doak has been Skills/Backs Coach for yonks- every time we throw an offload I hold my breath and we can barely pass the ball through the back line now. Lines of running are very predictable. Clarke has been forwards coach for yonks- still seeing Ruan Pienaar going into rucks to clear the ball every week, still seeing us look all over the shop at ruck time.

Kiss has to take some responsibility. His use of the bench is shocking and this aimless kicking is down to him, as is a lack of plan B. I wouldn't be calling for his head though. I'm sure he has a lot to offer this side, and needs time to learn his trade as DoR.

The coaching of Doak and Clarke seems to have gone backwards, with the team following. The set piece is a shambles, along with the restarts, the breakdown, exit strategy, tackling, passing and all other basic skills. It's worse than it was last season, and Doak, Clarke and Barakat have to be held accountable. Kiss also. Barakat is leaving and Doak and Clarke should follow him at the end of season. Apparently we have money to burn, so invest heavily on replacing these coaches with the best possible replacements. That's much more important than any big money signings right now. To think we brought Piutau into this shambles is not just embarrassing, but a waste of money.

clivemcl wrote:Maurice made a very good point. OK, maybe they were below their usual standards but Windsor and Herron were absolutely dire. Atrocious. So far off the standard it was silly. Marshall is ten times better a 9 than either of them are at 10. Why then, when we are missing so many is Pienaar not made to start at 10?? Our performance certainly turned around with the arrival of Marshall and Stockdale (who was one of the few positives). Considering all the switch arounds and playing in odd positions, it is surely ridiculous that Pienaar to 10 came so late in the day. And with Windsor and Herron in the squad, it was likely that it was never part of the plan despite it evidently being one of the best thing that happened Ulster all game.

Also.... why has Lyttle been getting so much opportunity at Stockdales expence? He looks much superior. (and has a cracking arse!)

Stockdale was benched because he's carrying an injury. He badly dislocated one or two fingers, and probably only there because we have nobody else. He did really well though.

This result certainly makes last week's humiliating defeat to Zebre all the more frustrating - if we had won that we would be 5 in a row now and the table would look a lot more positive.

The average age of our pack last night was 22! How did the makeshift front row get on?

A lot is written of the Murrayfield effect being negative for Edinburgh but I wonder if it makes it difficult for away teams to really get psyched up for the game - it is hardly a partisan atmosphere!

TJ wrote:

Edinburgh - are you Glasgow in disguise?  

Nope - second half proves it was Edinburgh :-)

Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

George Carlin wrote:Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

Ah so it is 'we' when Edinburgh wins and 'that shower of pampered jessies from the East' when Edinburgh lose!

My thoughts from an Edinburgh perspective. We've been generating lots of quick ball recently mainly through allowing everyone to play scrum half if it's on. Under Solomons any momentum was lost by waiting for our 9 to arrive at a ruck. It meant Kennedy was broken by half time and most of the time the only thing that was on was a box kick that he can't do with any sort of accuracy. He's been brilliant under Hodge. I take back almost all of my criticism.

Ulster seemed to play this way last night. Pienaar's the only person empowered to play heads up rugby and everyone else is playing to a flaky script. It might work if your forwards were doing their job but they clearly aren't.

I can't believe this is the same Ulster team that beat Glasgow the way they did a few weeks ago? The physicality then was incredible, but was it maybe too attritional to maintain? Is that what's caused your injury crisis?

George Carlin wrote:Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

We were genuinely good. Having 2 good locks on the pitch helps. I can't believe Gilco's off with Scotland.

The first try was shocking defending by Ulster but everything else was well worked.

Glasgow stole our old gameplan and we've just stolen it back. We've retained our unique inconsistency though, just to give our support something to talk about.

Also, it wasn't that cold. I only put my gloves on at half time.

It wasn'y the same Ulster side that took on Glasgow and that's a big part of the problem. Theres been no continuity in most positions due to injury and the internationals having a few games before heading off on Ireland duty again. We're down to a skeleton crew and it shows.

It wasn't skill that beat Glasgow it was brutal intensity. There were glimmers of that for about 10 minutes last night and I genuinely thought you might sneak it. We've crumbled from stronger positions in the past.

Is that intensity responsible for your injury woes?

Edinburgh played reasonably well from what I saw on the telly. Ulster were poor tho. Really poor decision making missing out on overlaps several times and no intensity at all.

Luvvies , well done. The non iron chaps are always difficult to beat. Come play off time this loss could really hurt them. Thanks.

Just watched the game and really enjoyed it.

Real positives for Edinburgh in bouncing back from the Zebre debacle and some of their young kids, especially the 2 props really were outstanding. Kennedy would have been my MoM, he really got them moving and is looking a better player game by game, amazing what a bit of game time and confidence gives you. SHC won't be getting that starting shirt back any time soon.

The drop off in the last quarter and the lack of ability to kill off the game with the BP where probably the only slight worries but in the context of playing Ulster, where not major issues and is stuff they can work on.

Keep playing like that and it will come. Really good to see them playing with such confidence and getting a really good win.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

Ah so it is 'we' when Edinburgh wins and 'that shower of pampered jessies from the East' when Edinburgh lose!

I just want to be absolutely clear about this.

Win or lose, Edinburgh will always be marginally less butch than a hair pulling competition between Alan Carr and Lilly Savage. Or as Jim and I would have it, John Inman and Larry Grayson.

des wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

We were genuinely good. Having 2 good locks on the pitch helps. I can't believe Gilco's off with Scotland.

The first try was shocking defending by Ulster but everything else was well worked.

Glasgow stole our old gameplan and we've just stolen it back. We've retained our unique inconsistency though, just to give our support something to talk about.

I thought Bradbury was tremendous; Strauss, Wilson and Denton will have to go some to hold him off for the Scotland 8 shirt.
How Gilchrist gets selected ahead of Toolis for Scotland is frankly bizarre. In fact Gilchrist might only be the fourth or fifth best lock in the Edinburgh squad.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

Ah so it is 'we' when Edinburgh wins and 'that shower of pampered jessies from the East' when Edinburgh lose!

I just want to be absolutely clear about this.

Win or lose, Edinburgh will always be marginally less butch than a hair pulling competition between Alan Carr and Lilly Savage. Or as Jim and I would have it, John Inman and Larry Grayson.

Or as Paul Simon once said, "You can call me Larry, and Larry when you call me I can call you John." And we'd still be too butch for the Luvvies .

George Carlin wrote:Can someone like FES who was at the game (and whose testicles are presumably still frozen together) opine on whether we played well or our bros from Belfast played poorly.

It was certainly one of the worst Ulster performances I have ever seen, absolutely riddled with errors, but that was matched by tenacious defence from Edinburgh. Edinburgh also looked very comfortable with ball in hand and they had us back-peddling for most of the game. They have some very physical ball carriers in the pack. I see a bright future for Edinburgh, as they have some very talented youngsters. Magnus Bradbury looks like a special player. 

I worry that many teams in the Pro12 will overtake Ulster in the next few years as we just haven't produced enough quality from the academy, specifically in the pack. We rely on foreign signings and obscure IQ player finds but that isn't sustainable.